About "Supporters/Opponents/Neutral" in verse pages and Knowledgeable users (Staff Only)

[Bobsican]

Okay, this has bugged me for pretty long.

Currently a "Supporter" is someone that likes the verse, a "Neutral" is someone that is, well, neutral, and an "Opponent" is someone that dislikes the verse.

As we all know, this section in verse pages is the main source to ask users at when it comes to CRTs on the subject, however, I've been starting to see users that admit that they don't know the series at all beyond what they see in the profiles, or even in some cases just following the same out of someone else doing it, and often they don't even want to be bothered with CRTs even while being so-called "Supporters", similarly also applying to the other sections.

While the Knowledgeable Members List is also a thing, that thing isn't updated each time a new verse is made without someone manually doing it.

So basically, my request is to just add as an option to put your username on a verse page like this for users that while listed shouldn't be the first option to consider to notify for CRTs regarding the respective verse, and potentially also add some guidelines to avoid just being able to add your name to a verse page without knowning anything whatsoever of the series (Similarly to how the Knowledgeable Members List works).

 

[Antvasima]

Well, given our forum move, it is likely the wrong time for any more major revisions, but I think that a "Knowledgeable Members" section in conjunction with the other 3 in all verse pages might solve the problem long-term.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, I'm fine with that overall.

I guess this discussion can be postponed for after the forum move if that's fine.

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask other administrators, content moderators, and bureaucrats to comment here if you wish, just to keep them informed, but I am uncertain if anybody would be willing to quickly apply a new "Knowledgeable Members" section to all of our verse pages after first updating the Standard Format for Verse Pages instruction page.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, it can be optional, as we all know that's "meant" to be covered in the Knowledgeable Members List.

But yes, this would take a while to do.

 

[Antvasima]

Should I place a link to this discussion in the highlights thread?

 

[Antvasima]

Also, should this be staff only?

 

[Bobsican]

Feel free to do so, as this is quite a wide issue that's affecting essencially even the mainstream verses, as we all know, there's even users that are supporters, but are inactive or explicitly state on their walls/profile page that they aren't interested in certain topics or even CRTs regarding some series.

And yes, this topic really won't get much farther if it's a general discussion, so it being staff only makes sense, for that this should also be moved to the staff board.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will handle this.

 

[Sera_EX]

To be honest, allowing people to freely install themselves as knowledgeable on a verse never sat well with me.

It also is synonymous with supporters to an extent.

Overall seems like an idea good on paper but bad in the grand scheme.

 

[The_Impress]

I don't even know why we even have a Knowledgeable Members list when Ant tends to have a different list to call upon during CRTs anyhow, the idea of the page itself is dubious, let alone having it on Verse pages

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with Sera with all honesty. I'm not really the biggest fan of people being allowed to freely add themselves to the knowledgeable members list. The Knowledgable members list is really something that people should earn rather than just saying, "I've seen the series through and through, so I'm knowledgeable". Sure it seems easy for staff members to list their names on those they're knowledgeable on, but I also feel as if even staff members who've been here a while should preferably earn their right to be added to a KM list.

So I think it's best to keep KM list and the Supporters/Neutral/Opponents separate. Also, just because someone is a strong supporter doesn't exactly mean they're knowledgeable on how the tierings and everything work. And there's obvious stereotypes people get like everyone's always assuming that just because someone's a supporter, they're going to support every exaggerated upgrade proposal they see, or if they're an opponent they'll reject every upgrade and support every downgrade they see.

I do agree that only the individual has a right to say whether they are a supporter, neutral, or opponent; thus why it's on the verse page. But Knowledgeable Members should be its own section and should preferable be earned.

 

[Moritzva]

I can agree with this - I already have a list of verses I'm knowledgeable on written down on my profile page, but that's not too easy to read.

 

[Mindovin]

I don't see why it is a thing to be honest. Knowledgeable Members List is more than enough imo.

 

[Antvasima]

I don't even know why we even have a Knowledgeable Members list when Ant tends to have a different list to call upon during CRTs anyhow, the idea of the page itself is dubious, let alone having it on Verse pages

I only have such a list for Marvel and DC threads, since the continuities are so difficult to get a coherent grasp of, so I try to keep track of which members that seem to display a sufficiently comprehensive understanding.

 

[Antvasima]

@Medeus

Well, it probably isn't practically possible for the staff to analyse all of the members in such a comprehensive manner, so we let them use their own judgements regarding the Knowledgeable Members List instead.

 

[Antvasima]

I don't see why it is a thing to be honest. Knowledgeable Members List is more than enough imo.

It would be much easier for our members to notice on their own.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree that it's difficult to analyze, and not saying we should lock the page or anything. But I'd just pointing out the reason for they there's a KM list page and why it should be separate from the Verse page.

Although, I will say that if relatively new user adds their name to the knowledgeable members list, and from what we see is that they do nothing but give arbitrary proposals, such as either taking every hyperbole they see literally and/or every single PIS scene as an excuse to downplay characters, their names should preferable be removed.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that Medeus makes sense.

 

[Lightbuster30]

So basically, my request is to just add as an (optional) optio to put your username on a verse page like this for users that while listed shouldn't be the first option to consider to notify for CRTs regarding the respective verse, and potentially also add some guidelines to avoid just being able to add your name to a verse page without knowning anything whatsoever of the series (Similarly to how the Knowledgeable Members List works).

I agree with the concept you're going for, but making it "optional" is a hard no for me. Making it optional means giving freedom for anyone who thinks they're knowledgeable to add themselves when in reality, they might not know much more than the average person. Getting added as knowledgeable needs to be decided by staff members. Preferably ones who are knowledgable on the verse themselves if possible.

 

[Bobsican]

I wouldn't mind at all it not being optional, but applying it would take a while.

For example, I can safely say that more than half of the users listed in Barney & Friends aren't knowledgeable in the series beyond what this site has explained.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Question, what does the Opponents and Nuetral part serve? Supporters I can get, but the other two literally have no purpose. You have supporters so you can call them over in a CRT/Debate, are we supposed to call over Opponents for the same?

 

[Moritzva]

Opponents are both useful and not useful - on one hand, it can act as a decent countermeasure to wank, but on the other hand, opponents tend to also not be the most knowledgeable.

Neutral, I've got nothing. Technically, I'm neutral to any verse I haven't read yet

 

[Antvasima]

We originally simply followed custom and let members list the verses that they felt strongly about after familiarising themselves with them. Then we recurrently needed to efficiently get input from people who know about a series, and used it for that instead. The neutral section can be useful to get more balanced input by the way.

 

[Newendigo]

I think that neither Supporters, Opponents or Neutrals are specifically usefull for CRTs, it just a section for people that either likes, dislikes, or are "meh" towards a verse that they watched/read at some point (Which mean they could have forgotten certain things, and/or could have changed their opinion). By no means they need some vast knowledge to be in there (Specially in franchises that are grossly big).

 

[Antvasima]

The sections have been absolutely crucial for my organisation work in this wiki. Without them a '''much''' lower percentage of content revision threads would ever have been resolved. I am definitely not going to accept that we get rid of them.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, since this suggestion seems to have been rejected, should I close this thread?

 

[Moritzva]

I suppose so. We could bring it up another time, when we are less busy. I also believe that we should make an announcement about not proposing any wiki-altering changes right now, and to hold them off until after the change.

 

[Newendigo]

I didn't say we should rid of it, is that is really not exactly mean to call people for CRTs, if the KM list is already there.

 

[Bobsican]

Yeah, they should stay no matter what, but regulations sure are to be considered.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will close this then.

The new forum is getting increasingly ready for usage yes, so new major revisions are inappropriate at this time.