A question about the tier of Marvel Skyfathers (possible Low 1-C)

[Revan_Laha]

We have put Odin and Zeus at At least 2-C, possibly 2-A, and we have Doctor Strange and Dormammu as measures for scaling. But both these characters are 2-A, possibly Low 1-C. Shouldn't Odin be put there too?

Also this feat should be added to Uatu, who scales to Odin. Uatu and Aron eventually battle in a war that is waged across infinite realities, with Atru hitting Uatu with the force of a thousand realities. (Fantastic Four #400)

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

How are strange and dormammu used a measuring sticks exactly?

 

[Revan_Laha]

How are strange and dormammu used a measuring sticks exactly?

Strange said he had never before experienced magic on that level after getting a taste of Odinforce. And Odin and Zeus are stated to be comparable to Dormammu

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Strange said he had never before experienced magic on that level after getting a taste of Odinforce. And Odin and Zeus are stated to be comparable to Dormammu

Can you so me the scan? That was a weakened dormmamu if I remember correctly so that would only be scaling for flame head

 

[LordTracer]

And Odin and Zeus are stated to be comparable to Dormammu

Just gonna pop in real quick to say that Odin and Zeus are not considered to be totally comparable, they’re considered to be inferior, but roughly on the same level as Dormammu.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Just gonna pop in real quick to say that Odin and Zeus are not considered to be totally comparable, they’re considered to be inferior, but roughly on the same level as Dormammu.

Actually I’m pretty sure dormmamu is a lot stronger than them

 

[LordTracer]

Actually I’m pretty sure dormmamu is a lot stronger than them

He is, but Odin and Zeus are portrayed as being roughly on the same level, which is why downscaling from him is part of their 2-A justifications.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

He is, but Odin and Zeus are portrayed as being roughly on the same level, which is why downscaling from him is part of their 2-A justifications.

How are they portrayed as being roughly the same lvl? They were only equal to him when he was weakened and would have killed them after gaining his full power along with the celestials heck I think there was a guide book stating dormmamu’s power equals the power of all the gods together.

 

[LordTracer]

How are they portrayed as being roughly the same lvl? They were only equal to him when he was weakened and would have killed them after gaining his full power along with the celestials heck I think there was a guide book stating dormmamu’s power equals the power of all the gods together.

Dormammu himself claimed that he was the equal of Odin and Zeus.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Dormammu himself claimed that he was the equal of Odin and Zeus.

When he was weakened

 

[The_Impress]

Can we do this later? We're already swamped with 8-C revisions

 

[Confluctor]

They should all be 1B, no joke

THe reason Odin wasn't given a proper tier is because of how inconsistent he can be sometimes, albeit the Odinsleep thing is a factor sometimes.

I do agree that Utau's tiering is a mess, it don't make tons of sense. Also the "across infinite realities" is more if a range thing than AP, but the thousand part can be used for scaling.

 

[Hellbeast]

They should all be 1B, no joke

THe reason Odin wasn't given a proper tier is because of how inconsistent he can be sometimes, albeit the Odinsleep thing is a factor sometimes.

Tbh Odin might need a Variable tier

 

[Confluctor]

He definitely does

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Speaking of profiles, Zeus’s is pretty much outdated seeing as he was reborn and stated to be stronger then he was previously

 

[Confluctor]

Honestly at this rate we should just yeet the Zeus profile. It's a pretty bad profile and unlike other gods, he isn't even that relevant to begin with.

 

[Antvasima]

I personally prefer if we avoid any drastic upgrades due to "everybody can fight everybody, because Marvel Comics is borderline dadaistic in this regard" chain-scaling, if none of the characters have feats of anywhere near that scale.

I hope that Impress will be able to make our Marvel cosmic entities profile pages more reliable.

 

[Eseseso]

I support removing the Zeus profile, and IMO Uatu should be a 2-A due to that "Thousand Realities" thing.

Also, we should either make Odin fully downscale from Dormammu, or we shouldn't even add that he's portrayed as being comparable.

 

[Antvasima]

What do you think that we should do here @The_Impress and @Firestorm808 ?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

always consider Dormammu's statement as skyfather are 16, abstracts are 18-20, Dormammu 18 (weakened).

yes, The profile of the watcher is bad, besides that his justification of Backscaling Celestials does not make much sense since in the same comic you can see that the celestials have the advantage all the time and they are not even their true forms

 

[Antvasima]

What do you think that we should do here @The_Impress and @Firestorm808 ?

@The_Impress @Firestorm808

 

[Firestorm808]

Ah, sorry. Forgot about this. Will review after the holiday.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you.

 

[Firestorm808]

Strange said he had never before experienced magic on that level after getting a taste of Odinforce. And Odin and Zeus are stated to be comparable to Dormammu

Do we have the scans and sources for that?

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Do we have the scans and sources for that?

 

[Firestorm808]

@MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer

Do we have the sources?

Also, isn't that Yggdrasil Doctor Strange?

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

@MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer

Do we have the sources?

Also, isn't that Yggdrasil Doctor Strange?

Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme Vol 1 1
Doctor Strange Vol 1 383

And yes it is.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

The world tree=Odin magic according to Thor 2020 #12

 

[Antvasima]

I am uneasy with scaling between eras, especially for Dormammu, who has been treated as a pushover in most recent appearances, but him stating himself that Odin and Zeus are his equals, back when he was still treated as a big threat, seems considerably more reliable.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I am uneasy with scaling between eras, especially for Dormammu, who has been treated as a pushover in most recent appearances, but him stating himself that Odin and Zeus are his equals, back when he was still treated as a big threat, seems considerably more reliable.

Pretty sure dormmamu was weakened when he said that and when has he been treated as a pushover in his most recent appearances?

 

[Antvasima]

The Bendis-era Avengers were able to fight him, Cyclops severely damaged him to the point that Dormammu screamed in agony, the Howling Commandos (the monster version with Frankenstein's Monster) were beating him up, he was unable to even annoy Galactus, whereas even Gladiator gave the latter a fight in the same storyline, etcetera.

 

[Confluctor]

oh boy are we sure we are not ignoring explicit context for some?

 

[Antvasima]

Somewhat, but the essential point remains. Also, in the Waid run of Doctor Strange, Dormammu was stated to be weaker than other members of the Faltine that Strange and his allies defeated without too much trouble, if I remember correctly.

In any case, Dormammu used to be portrayed as a far bigger deal than currently, power-wise. Al Ewing hyped him up as a bigger threat again during the recent "The Final Annihilation" storyline, but only relatively speaking.