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A Certain Llama Wants In On The Low 1-C club; Pokemon Low 1-C Upgrade for True Form Arceus

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Hey everyone. You're beloved or hated uwu professor is back with another one of these. But putting jokes aside, I really do hope everyone here has been doing well and is okay. Due to focusing on my schoolwork, my job, and other personal issues offline, i've been very MIA these past couple months, and may still not be as active as I used to for the moment. So with the free time I have to make this thread, I do want to wish everyone stays healthy, isn't letting the world of the inter webs get to their mental health, and that you all stay well. Now with the short greeting out of the way, time to get to the nightmare at hand.

Im not totally up to date of whats been happening here recently, but either way, it's time to finally address the elephant in the room that is Arceus, or rather, his true form after the release of Pokemon: Legends Arceus and the potential upgrade of Low 1-C.

NOTE: This is only to argue for Low 1-C True Form Arceus. Any other talk about upgrading the cosmology/Creation Trio, or Arceus's avatar, is not related here and is its own thing.

Now i'll be going off of this CRT from before btw, given the arguments for it being legit about Arceus in itself. The rest really isn’t part of the stuff I’ll try to argue here.

The scan used is from the very 1st cutscene you see at the beginning of the game, where Arceus describes its realm, being beyond space and time.

Q5RKA2p.png


Before I get into this, I’ll explain what the Eternal Battle Reverie is.

It’s basically a game mode where Arceus summons you again to its realm to challenge you in fights, and there you can even use your own Arceus against “Arceus’ Arceus” and it showcased even multiple versions of the Creation Trio existing at the same time, confirming completely that they use avatars to interact with the multiverse. This was even said in the game itself, where Arceus has given to the MC a part of itself as a reward for completing the mission Arceus has originally gave to them when it “isekai’d” them to Hisui, and the dex’s requirement to complete Arceus’ page (here's the clip where I took the screenshot) just repeats this even more.

Now that the avatar argument is showcased again, I can present the core arguments.

For first, not just Arceus has it's own realm, but also all the Creation Trio members do have for each, and like Giratina, they are also said realms themselves (along with Arceus also being the entire Pokemon verse itself as it has already been said and accepted here). This matters as not only Giratina’s realm lacks directions as is even said on its current profile, but Palkia even includes directions themselves as part of what “space” in the Pokémon verse's context actually is (as even explained in the Part 3 section of our current 2-A Blog, where it's explained how space is the whole of the parallel universes).

Directions are related with dimensions, as there are at least 2 fundamental directions where one can move to for each axis:

  • 0D: Can’t move at all, no axis where to move.
  • 1D: Left and Right
  • 2D: Left, Right, Front and Back
  • 3D: Left, Right, Front, Back. Up and Down.

And so on. Given that Arceus’s own realm is beyond both time and space, with the latter being also the directions of the verse (thus, it is essentially the 4D aspect of the verse), I believe a Low 1-C rating can be given to Arceus, especially when Arceus is also described as the god who transcends everything by Masuda himself, and the totality of the verse is just a mere aspect of its being, meaning its existence is actually superior to the 4D part of the verse, thus it should qualify as superior enough to 4D to qualify as Low 1-C (which ExectutorN0 has already agreed to being enough to get a “possibly” rating for this when speaking about this with him).

It should also be noted that, even in our FAQ's section of the sites Tiering System page, we note that anything that is superior in nature to that of 4D space-time should be considered Low 1-C.

@Ultima also agrees with this being Low 1-C based on this comment he gave about a case that's exactly the same for Arceus's here (HOWEVER, we are obviously not counting Ultima as a vote in agreement for the upgrade until he himself comes here to give it on his own).

And to add in some more minor support for this, we can also use some information from Hoopa to back up Arceus and his realms superiority.

In the manga version of Hoopa and the Clash of Ages, Barza cites that Hoopa's rings possess infinite power.

Hoopas_Rings_having_Infinite_Power.jpg


The next important detail about this to keep in mind too, is that the power of Hoopa's true form, Hoopa Unbound, is the only form of Hoopa where it's rings are able to pull off the feat of forcibly connecting to the dimensions of the Creation Trio in order to summon and use them for it's own use. Something that is otherwise only possible to do with the Red Chain (and the CT themselves ofc).

So with the power of his true form, that is obviously > to that of Hoopa Confined, Hoopa Unbound's rings are capable of establishing connections to the realms of the Creation Trio by force. However, even as Unbound, Hoopa can't connect or interact with Arceus's realm under any circumstance.

This is proven by the fact that not only did Barza and Mary's grandfather Ghris, who had mastery over only a facet of power that Arceus bestowed onto them and their clan, originally sealed Hoopa's power away in the Prison Bottle in the first place, but Hoopa's rings after it regains the power of Unbound were even shrinking and being regressed inside a space-time distortion while attempting to use them to escape it. That shows the incomparable difference and how the rings cannot interact with Arceus's realm, despite them being capable of forcibily interacting with the Creation Trio's realms, and it should help provide more supporting evidence of True Form Arceus achieving Low 1-C.

This should be everything I have to say about what I think Arceus’ new tier should be. Even a “possibly” rating should be good enough to agree on here with everything presented. Credits to The Pink God for this Sandbox, which explains how, imo, the new rating should be explained if agreed on here.

TL;DR- True Form Arceus should get Low 1-C. As a reminder, this thread is only to discuss True Form Arceus receiving the potential upgrade, not upgrading the creation trio, the cosmology, or otherwise. A separate thread can, if desired, be made to discuss this for them later on.

And that's that folks. Let's get to discussing.

Agree: (39) @QuasiYuri, @Psychomaster35, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Maverick_Zero_X, @CloverDragon03, @The real cal howard, @StrymULTRA, @Bernkastelll, @ActuallySpaceMan, @Noneless21 @Problemexe, @Yemma670, @OnsokunoSonic, @Rendynoc0unter, @DigiAnymore, @CosmicWreck, @RM97, @BlackDarkness679, @DaReaperMan, @Arthex, @XXKINGXX69, @theultimate5105, @Arceus0x, @Pikaman, @The_Pink_God, @TheDivineHost, @Rikimarox2, @Veloxt1r0kore, @Zencha9, @NeoZex6399, @NIK_FARIS, @The_Axiom_of_Virgo, @Milly_Rocking_Bandit, @Thelastmlg, @Rez, @y3p_owo, @ShadowWarrior1999, @JooCipher
 
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Pretty much agree given I'm the one suggesting the idea lmao.

I also think BDE 2 should be removed. The scans used for it are more supportive evidence for a Low 1-C rating rather than the ability in itself, which sounds redundant af imo.
 
I also think BDE 2 should be removed. The scans used for it are more supportive evidence for a Low 1-C rating rather than the ability in itself, which sounds redundant af imo.
Yeah sorry, I didnt include that because,well, given the nature of the proposal here, I want the upgrade to be the only topic of this thread to be focused on. The other stuff can be done in their own threads.
 
Yeah sorry, I didnt include that because,well, given the nature of the proposal here, I want the upgrade to be the only topic of this thread to be focused on. The other stuff can be done in their own threads.
If they're related, why not proposing it lol.

Anyway, I think it should be gone until stuff comes saying why it should remain here.
 
I mean, he still fits BDE 2 tho. Why should that be removed
Pretty much agree given I'm the one suggesting the idea lmao.

I also think BDE 2 should be removed. The scans used for it are more supportive evidence for a Low 1-C rating rather than the ability in itself, which sounds redundant af imo.
^

I think is more coz just being beyond space and time isn't enough. This dude is an example tbf. Ik the whole "but is the concepts", but that's something Low 1-Cs do in comparison with 2-A concepts like always.
 
Anyway, I never understood why Original One should be on the same level as his millions of 2A clones when they're merely parts of his being, existing in a realm beyond the multiverse

Remember his avatar could affect the multiverse and beyond it merely by waking up in JOL, and thats a weakened Avatar missing its plates


Agree with the upgrade. Everything makes sense
 
Personally, I'm fine with just a Low 1-C. Simply link the author statement in conjunction with the Pokemon Legends scan and there should be no need for a possibly rating.
 
Just a question, this thread grants arcues low 1c on the basis of his dimension having a extra direction(a additional dimension axis, I suppose), correct?

Although, i thought vsbattle only accepts "trascended dimensions" instead of normal ones, if that is not the case. I agree.
 
Just a question, this thread grants arcues low 1c on the basis of his dimension having a extra direction(a additional dimension axis, I suppose), correct?

Although, i thought vsbattle only accepts "trascended dimensions" instead of normal ones, if that is not the case. I agree.
Directions are quite interchangeable with dimensions here, as shown in the OP.
 
I agree with a possibly/likely, the scans are pretty good.

Although I assume all the abilities he has will be bumped to Low 1c in potency?
 
Why are we only scaling this to his feat-less true form btw? In the anime he caused his realm to shake and the author statement was in reference to HGSS. They're no contradictions.
 
Why are we only scaling this to his feat-less true form btw? In the anime he caused his realm to shake and the author statement was in reference to HGSS. They're no contradictions.
Shaking doesn't mean much and it would mean that Arceus avatars can kill the true form which is false ofc.
 
We don't have much evidence to suggest that the Hall of Origin (Arceus' avatars realm) is the same as the realm beyond time and space at the beginning of Legends: Arceus.

While we could assume that Arceus' avatar does not have a different realm to true form Arceus, I'm not comfortable enough to give Arceus' avatars Low 1-C on that assumption alone when it lacks explicit proof.

Otherwise, we could at least give Arceus' avatars Low 1-C range based off it's residence in there and calling the Player there.
 
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