A Big Boi Mashymyre CRT

[CloverDragon03]

Introduction
Oh boy, it's another CRT from your boi, but it ain't Black Clover this time. This time it's to do with the Mashima Verse, or rather, one character in particular: the supreme being of it all, Mashymyre. Right now, he's 2-C for creating everything in the Mashima Verse, but one of the verses he made gives something notable that should shoot him way up.

That verse is Happy's Heroic Adventure.

Also, there are other things that should be changed about his profile, all of which will be addressed here.

Low 1-C Mashymyre
This is the biggest one by far, and no, your eyes are not deceiving you. I believe Mashymyre should be Low 1-C, and here's why:

We know that Mashymyre's true power views the entire Mashima Verse as a work of fiction. However, going by our standards, you need to be on such a higher level of existence "which trivializes everything below them into insignificance, normally by perceiving them as akin to fictional constructs or something infinitesimal." So basically, one way to reach this tier is to transcend even a 2-A structure by so much that you view it as essentially fiction. We know Mashymyre sees the verse as fiction, as he wrote the stories of these verses, created them, etc., but where's the proof of the verse being a 2-A structure?

Once again, Happy's Heroic Adventure comes into play.

As we know, a 2-A structure is one that contains an infinite amount of Low 2-C structured universes. One of the later chapters of Happy's Heroic Adventure provides us with this gem of a statement. We see that there are an infinite number of dimensions, as per this statement. However, I can hear the argument that dimensions =/= universes. As such, I've got something to show that they are equivalent terms in the context of this story.

This page shows this dimensional stuff again. However, the important thing of note is that the Fairy Tail universe is shown as such a "dimension" in this. It's well-established that the Fairy Tail universe is a Low 2-C structure itself, space-time and all that jazz.

What this shows is that the Fairy Tail universe is seen as such a "dimension," and an infinite number of these "dimensions" exist. That's an infinite number of universes right there, falling under the 2-A structure that Mashymyre transcends so greatly so as to view it as mere fiction. As such, I believe Mashymyre should be Low 1-C.

Immeasurable Speed Mashymyre
These next few I believe shouldn't be as controversial, as they're simply things that are already well-established that for some reason have an Unknown tier. One such example is Mashymyre's speed. He exists beyond the space-time continuums of all the universes in the Mashima Verse. Existing out of time is textbook Immeasurable speed going by the guidelines of the verse, since time in the S = D/T equation is undefined.

Hopefully, this one is pretty simple.

At least Extaordinary Genius Intelligence for Mashymyre
This one should be the least controversial. Mashymyre created everything and everyone in the Mashima Verse, which includes Zeref, a character with extraordinary genius intellect. Even characters like these are viewed as fiction in his eyes, as he created and wrote the stories of all these verses. As such, his intelligence should be far above any character he creates, including the extraordinary genius Zeref.

Final Thoughts
So, I've argued for three things for Mashymyre here:

1. Low 1-C
2. Immeasurable speed
3. At least Extraordinary Genius intelligence

I don't have much else to say here, but since this could be controversial (mainly due to the Low 1-C argument), let's keep things as civil as we can.

 

[Zackra1799]

I agree with this, however Mashymres intelligence should be at least nigh omniscient, possiblity omniscient given that Xaio Mei has Nigh Omniscience and knows everything past present and future, her only restriction being mother's location, which Mashymre wouldn't have due to him writing the plot of Edens Zero.

 

[KingTempest]

Following. I like what I see

 

[Nerd1435]

1. I agree with him viewing 2A as fiction. Brought up the HHA statement long ago. If that alone qualifies for 1-C then sure I agree.

2. This is kinda wacky. This doesn't apply in the land of gods. Would we say his speed is immeasurable in lower worlds (as in the stories/worlds by creation gods)

3. Disagree. I think he can imagine a super intelligent character without having to be as intelligent himself, irl authors often do it. He mostly focuses on the direction of the plot after he creates the world.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I agree with this, however Mashymres intelligence should be at least nigh omniscient, possiblity omniscient given that Xaio Mei has Nigh Omniscience and knows everything past present and future, her only restriction being mother's location, which Mashymre wouldn't have due to him writing the plot of Edens Zero.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Xiao Mei

 

[Nerd1435]

Definitely agree with him being above 2A though. We've already agreed in a previous thread that Happy's Heroic Adventure and other stories under "Mashima Universe" (as acknowledged by Kodansha itself) hav been created by Mashymre.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Oh this is gonna be hilarious.

Also Mashmyre should 1-A for seeing True Gravity as fiction and True Gravity transcends concepts.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I agree with Low 1-C even without the 2-A.

Immeasurable is a big no, since transcending isn't a qualification for that speed.

Writing an intelligent guy =/= being as intelligent. Otherwise dudes like Lovecraft would be Omniscient.

 

[Zackra1799]

1. I agree with him viewing 2A as fiction. Brought up the HHA statement long ago. If that alone qualifies for 1-C then sure I agree.

2. This is kinda wacky. This doesn't apply in the land of gods. Would we say his speed is immeasurable in lower worlds (as in the stories by creation gods)

Mashymre wrote the fairy tail verse at least 60 years ago despite it having over 400 years worth of past, given we see that it's done by physically writing, this would qualify for immesurable iirc.

3. Disagree. I think he can imagine a super intelligent character without having to be as intelligent himself, irl authors often do it. He mostly focuses on the direction of the plot after he creates the world.

This isn't the same thing everything comes from his imagination all of time and space from every verse and every action from all those verses, which isn't the case for real world authors given we have cognative limitations as humans.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Agree with low 1-C
As for speed, I am pretty sure existing out space-time doesn't automatically qualify for Immeasurable speed, so disagree. It should be left as Unknown.
Intelligence should be Nigh Omniscient.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

More seriously, I don’t think immeasurable works like how you listed it above. Agree with the other two tho.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Writing an intelligent guy =/= being as intelligent. Otherwise dudes like Lovecraft would be Omniscient.

These characters are all products of Mashymyre's imagination, that much is established within HERO's (where he's introduced)

More seriously, I don’t think immeasurable works like how you listed it above. Agree with the other two tho.

I thought it may work like this, since he exists in a plane outside of space-time continuums, and time being undefined would qualify for Immeasurable speed. Guess not, probably.

 

[Zencha9]

agree with Low 1-C immeasurableis a no

 

[CloverDragon03]

1. I agree with him viewing 2A as fiction. Brought up the HHA statement long ago. If that alone qualifies for 1-C then sure I agree.

2. This is kinda wacky. This doesn't apply in the land of gods. Would we say his speed is immeasurable in lower worlds (as in the stories/worlds by creation gods)

3. Disagree. I think he can imagine a super intelligent character without having to be as intelligent himself, irl authors often do it. He mostly focuses on the direction of the plot after he creates the world.

1. Going by our standards, this qualifies.
2. I don't remember, but people seem to disagree with this being enough to make his speed Immeasurable anyway.
3. This is kinda tough to put into words, but basically, within the Mashima Verse, these things that are thought of (like the R-System, Eclipse gate, and especially Neo Eclipse) are considered Extraordinary Genius. Real life is a different story.

 

[UeTa]

I thought it may work like this, since he exists in a plane outside of space-time continuums, and time being undefined would qualify for Immeasurable speed. Guess not, probably.

I mean, we are not giving immeasurable speed for Dragon Ball character when they are entering the Hyperbolic Time Chamber/Room of Spirit and Time. It's not because in S=D/T, "T" is missing, that you straight up have infinite nor immeasurable speed

« Timeless Voids, i.e. areas within a setting that lack time or exist outside of the flow of time, cannot be used to grant Infinite speed. One might be tempted to apply Speed = Distance/Time and say that time equals 0 in this situation, thus moving through this type of void should result in Infinite speed. However, in a Timeless Void, time does not exist, making Time = Not Applicable.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Speed#Notes4
So in short, Time = Nonexistent or Not Applicable and Distance/Time = Undefined and cannot be determined under these conditions. » - Speed page, note 4.

With the exception of that, I agree with the other two.

 

[Planck69]

Agree with Low 1-C. Disagree with Immeasurable speed. Neutral on Intelligence.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Low 1-C is good

Immeasurable does seem invalid

Intelligence looks good to me

 

[Nerd1435]

~The weakest low 1C character?~

(I know the strike-out doesn't work like that here)

 

[AnonymousBlank]

~The weakest low 1C character?~

(I know the strike-out doesn't work like that here)

Yes cuz his hax is only on a 2-A scale

 

[Nerd1435]

Yeah ☹

 

[CloverDragon03]

Okay, so Immeasurable speed definitely seems denied and Low 1-C seems to be generally agreed on. Intelligence seems to be the one that people are split on.

Also, Zackra mentioned that he would actually be Nigh-Omniscient, possibly Omniscient for the reason below:

I agree with this, however Mashymres intelligence should be at least nigh omniscient, possiblity omniscient given that Xaio Mei has Nigh Omniscience and knows everything past present and future, her only restriction being mother's location, which Mashymre wouldn't have due to him writing the plot of Edens Zero.

What do people think of this?

 

[Nerd1435]

Omniscient is just a no-no bruh, even as a possibility

Man was overloaded with the stories he's writing, confused and mixed up the memories of his own and the characters in the stories.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Omniscient is just a no-no bruh, even as a possibility

Man was overloaded with the stories he's writing, confused and mixed up the memories of his own and the characters in the stories.

I'm simply quoting what was said. I think Nigh-Omniscient might possibly work, but definitely not Omniscient

 

[Zackra1799]

Omniscient is just a no-no bruh, even as a possibility

Man was overloaded with the stories he's writing, confused and mixed up the memories of his own and the characters in the stories.

That just means his powers can overwhelm Omniscience intelligence.

Xaio Mei can see everything past, present, and, future across all possibilities. Mashymre created Xaio Mei and her nigh omniscience from his own imagination, the same imagination that controls the actions of everything with the entire Mashima verse as he creates the plot/story of everything.

 

[QuasiYuri]

That just means his powers can overwhelm Omniscience intelligence.

Xaio Mei can see everything past, present, and, future across all possibilities. Mashymre created Xaio Mei and her nigh omniscience from his own imagination, the same imagination that controls the actions of everything with the entire Mashima verse as he creates the plot/story of everything.

That's just blatant misunderstanding of what it truly entails.
Writing an omniscient character isn't being omniscient, so an author avatar has no reason to gain that when his feats are directly against this notion.

 

[Zackra1799]

I'm not talking about his avatar, I'm talking about his true self, he said himself that the narrative itself comes from his imagination. Said narrative includes the entirety of the past present and future of all the timelines which is an infinite amount. This would mean he needs enough cognitive ability to comprehend and create said timelines and every action all the characters take.

I'm fine with Nigh Omniscience if Omniscience is rejected but he should have at least that much other wise his feats wouldn't make sense.

 

[Damage3245]

This one should be the least controversial. Mashymyre created everything and everyone in the Mashima Verse, which includes Zeref, a character with extraordinary genius intellect. Even characters like these are viewed as fiction in his eyes, as he created and wrote the stories of all these verses. As such, his intelligence should be far above any character he creates, including the extraordinary genius Zeref.

I consider this one controverisal. Authors aren't necessarily geniuses just because they write characters who are geniuses.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I consider this one controverisal. Authors aren't necessarily geniuses just because they write characters who are geniuses.

Yeah, it ended up being the most controversial in hindsight. Funny how that works.

I think I’ve become more neutral on it.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I'm not talking about his avatar, I'm talking about his true self, he said himself that the narrative itself comes from his imagination. Said narrative includes the entirety of the past present and future of all the timelines which is an infinite amount. This would mean he needs enough cognitive ability to comprehend and create said timelines and every action all the characters take.

I'm fine with Nigh Omniscience if Omniscience is rejected but he should have at least that much other wise his feats wouldn't make sense.

I meant that he is an author avatar in the truest sense, not that he had an avatar.

Also I can imagine entire quantum multiverses filled with councils of omniscient guys, yet I'm not smart or anything. There's no difference here.

 

[Zackra1799]

I meant that he is an author avatar in the truest sense, not that he had an avatar.

Also I can imagine entire quantum multiverses filled with councils of omniscient guys, yet I'm not smart or anything. There's no difference here.

You can imagine people who possess the word Omniscient as a label, but you can't imagine everything actual omniscience can, for example you can't instantly tell me every point from the past present and future as we humans have a limit on our cognitive function unlike actual omniscience.

Mashymre's imagination controls the story in its entirety, which includes all the characters and every action they can possibly take as there is an 2-A amount of seperate space times involved here. Being able to compute that much would sclae above someone like Xaio Mei who can view all of time and possibilities within the Edens Zero verse, while Mashymre can do so for the entirety of the Mashima Universe.

 

[QuasiYuri]

You can imagine people who possess the word Omniscient as a label, but you can't imagine everything actual omniscience can, for example you can't instantly tell me every point from the past present and future as we humans have a limit on our cognitive function unlike actual omniscience.

Mashymre's imagination controls the story in its entirety, which includes all the characters and every action they can possibly take as there is an 2-A amount of seperate space times involved here. Being able to compute that much would sclae above someone like Xaio Mei who can view all of time and possibilities within the Edens Zero verse, while Mashymre can do so for the entirety of the Mashima Universe.

You need to prove that he can do that. After all the whole plot of Heroes wouldn't happen if it was the case.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think the Low 1-C proposal looks good from a glance

Immeasurable speed needs more context, simply existing outside of time is not speed at all. Immeasurable speed is defined as the ability to move through at least one temporal dimension as if it were a spatial dimension while reacting faster than instantly.

The reason for intelligence seems iffy; I don't doubt him being extremely intelligent wither Extraordinary Genius or Nigh-Omniscient based on reasons above, but "Being smarter than your own creations" isn't always the case.

 

[Zackra1799]

You need to prove that he can do that. After all the whole plot of Heroes wouldn't happen if it was the case.

I already provided the evidence for it given Mashymre himself says that everything comes from Mashymre, his example being Oasis itself as he included all the people and their literal lives which would include their actions by proxy given lives are based on actions. The Plot of Heroes is that Mashymre overflowed his own imagination and lost control over his own powers, which confirms what I said about his powers surpassing himself.

 

[Planck69]

Creating a character doesn't necessarily mean scaling to their intelligence at all.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm fine either way, and it seems like it's leaning more toward rejecting the intelligence boost. So, it looks like only Low 1-C was accepted (which is the one I cared about most so nice)

 

[QuasiYuri]

I already provided the evidence for it given Mashymre himself says that everything comes from Mashymre, his example being Oasis itself as he included all the people and their literal lives which would include their actions by proxy given lives are based on actions. The Plot of Heroes is that Mashymre overflowed his own imagination and lost control over his own powers, which confirms what I said about his powers surpassing himself.

That's not enough to prove it, at all. You van do so with Below Average intelligence

 

[SamanPatou]

For the little I know about tier 1, this seems good.

I don't know about Immeasurable speed, so I'll leave the judgement to others.

I'm very iffy about EG and NO intelligence FRA. It is also stated he had help from his students just for Oasis, and we would need proof he crafted literally every single concept and plot ploint of every single thing in the multiverse, which is very far from what we are shown.

 

[Lormac_CC]

After going through, I change my mind and agree with Yuri, Ugo as a Human is rated Supergenius, he was created by a god who has no will, so yea

 

[CloverDragon03]

I think we've reached a consensus on this, that being that of the three proposed revisions, Low 1-C is the only one that has been accepted. I think it should be safe to apply changes.

 

[UeTa]

That's just blatant misunderstanding of what it truly entails.
Writing an omniscient character isn't being omniscient, so an author avatar has no reason to gain that when his feats are directly against this notion.

So what about author's portrayal like the One Above All? He is considered Nigh-Omniscient because he is the, I quote : "creator of the Marvel multiverse, The OAA holds virtually all knowledge regarding its nature". If you follow this logic with Mashymyre he should be Nigh-Omniscient as well.