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9-C Haxless M/SK/ETC Bracket (Round 5)

HeadlessKramerGeoff777

HeadlessKramerGeoff777

12,629
412
009AB82E-64EC-488E-80F2-A7A44029F0EB
Summery

Bracket Hub/Rule Page and Current Bracket. I don't have a story for this one, but if someone would like to make one, I will add it to the OP.

Participants for Match

Rules for Match

  • Speed is equalized
  • Both start on the opposite sides of Camp Crystal Lake (at night)
  • Both have full arsenals (mean Ghostface has his gun)
Results
Nice night, isn't it?: 7

So why live?: 4

Incon: 1
 
Sweet. It doesn't protect his head which Johan should easily be able to shoot if he's real good with gun
 
Now here's the thing.

Ghostface has far, far better stealth, and the battle is set on opposite sides of a large, forested area with plenty of places to hide, the same place where Jason's mum wiped out an entire cast of people.

But most importantly, Ghostface has prior knowledge of the battlefield. He has watched Friday the 13th, as seen in his very first kill, when he called out a woman for not knowing the killer in the aforementioned movie.

So not only does Ghostface have better stealth, and a bulletproof vest, but he knows the battlefield far better than Johan.

Ghostface only needs to land one shot on any party of Johan's body, from stealth, to likely leave him weakened and easy to finish off. Johan needs to shoot the head, or else Ghostface will shrug it off.

Vote Ghostie.
 
Jackythejack said:
this is favoritism for ghostfacea
Click to expand...
Which one?

Johan's intelligence helps, but his intelligence is more focused on business logistics rather than being a master of combat. While he could use his skill to land a decisive hit, I think Ghostface can sneak through more times than not.
 
This is Hannibal VS Pamela 2.0.

Johan's favorite thing to do is stop a person dead in their tracks with a well-placed word or two that catches them off-guard, and then talk them into submission. And if there's one thing that's true of every Ghostface killer in Scream, it's that they all love to talk and they're all ******* nuts.

One of the earliest things Johan did in the Monster chronology was convince an entire orphanage and its staff to kill each other while he sat there and watched it all happen. He did that when he was only ten years old.

As for stealth, I would actually argue that Johan is better at at it than any of the Ghostface killers were. When he was not eve ten years old, he managed to get away with poisoning the Eisler Memorial Hospital director (as well as two of the hospital's well-known doctors) and then escaping the hospital itself without being noticed, all while the building was still full of people.

The only real advantage Ghostface has is knowing about Crystal Lake and, honestly, the Friday The 13th movies as shown from viewer perspective don't give an exact map and coordinates detailing how the camp is laid out. And if you want to get really technical about it, the Camp itself looks different with each movie, because the movies' respective crews didn't all use the same filming location during the production of every single film.
 
Yeah, watching a movie isn't the best way to figure out the layout of a place, might confuse him more than anything. Although the vest is a pretty huge advantage. Does Johan generally go for body or head shots?
 
...

Also, the series has repeated moments where people point guns at him and he tells them to make sure they shoot him in the head as a psychological trick, basically telling them that if they're going to shoot him, shoot to kill. This is also something he's been doing since he was a kid, and it's actually what got him shot by his sister when he was little.
 
Shooting people that are sitting or crouching in the head doesn't really prove much, it is usually the easiest and simplest target in those situations
 
HeadlessKramerGeoff777 said:
Shooting people that are sitting or crouching in the head doesn't really prove much, it is usually the easiest and simplest target in those situations
Click to expand...
Agreed.

Not to mention, Ghostface usually talks against victims he already has the upper hand against. Against most enemies, he sneaks up and kills them quickly, unless you're the Final Girl or something.

He is not that final girl.

Johan may be skilled, but his intelligence is in a more pragmatic sense than a battle sense. He can not compete with Ghostie's stealth; by the time he knows Ghostie is there, he's dead.

Unless you have an argument for Johan beating a far more stealthy enemy that can tank more hits and knows the environment better, my vote will not change.
 
HeadlessKramerGeoff777 said:
Shooting people that are sitting or crouching in the head doesn't really prove much, it is usually the easiest and simplest target in those situations
Click to expand...
Which is why Johan shooting Ghostface isn't anywhere in my argument. Sped simply asked me a question of where he prefers to aim with a gun, and I answered it.
 
Moritzva said:
Unless you have an argument for Johan beating a far more stealthy enemy that can tank more hits and knows the environment better, my vote will not change.
Click to expand...
Johan's notable stealth feat that I mentioned is at least as good as anything the Ghostface killers have done, and he did that when he was a child. Upon having just recovered from neurosurgery after being shot in the head by his sister.

He doesn't know the environment better in a way that matters. He's seen Friday The 13th and made notes on it, which hardly equates to having full knowledge of the entirety of Crystal Lake's layout the way someone like Pamela Voorhees would.

Tanking more hits won't matter if Johan simply talks him into killing himself, the way he's done with far smarter, far less monologue-y characters several times, including yet another instance where he did so when he was just a kid.
 
What you mentioned fell more in line with his Disguise Mastery, rather than pure stealth. And disguises mean jack **** when you're the only other person around.

He still knows the locations, and layouts. The best places to hide, the buildings, the windows- all of these are critical in a 1v1 stealth bout.

I honestly do not see Johan talking Ghostface into killing himself. Ghostface shoots him in the back of the head before he knows he's there.
 
What are you talking about? He didn't have any disguises. He was a child in head bandages who had just been operated on by the hospital's most renowned surgeon (so pretty much everyone knew who he was and what he looked like), and he simply left his ward, acquired poisoned candy, poisoned three men and then disappeared, all while the entire hospital still had people milling around inside of it.

He doesn't know where any of these things are even located in relation to each other, and as I mentioned before, Crystal Lake doesn't even keep the same appearance and filming location across each movie.

Their stealth is relatively the same, if not slanted in Johan's favor. The likelihood of Ghostface sneaking up on him is next to nil, and if Johan sees him, all he has to do is start talking and it's over. None of the Ghostface killers have ever met anyone with Johan's type of conversation abilities, much less shown any evidence of surviving the kind of psychological games he plays.
 
>simply left his ward

that sounds like intense PIS more than anything, if there was zero elaboration on how he did that.

He'd be able to figure it out pretty easily, based on the looks of different buildings.

Stealth is very much in Ghostface's favor, both in outfit (while black isn't perfect for stealth, he's not showing any skin, and it'll serve... well enough, in darkness).
 
Oh, OP, is it at night? I imagine it would be, as serial killers fighting in broad daylight seems a bit weird, but it's up to you.
 
InfiniteSped said:
Can you show an example of him talking someone into suicide?
Click to expand...
Here's the one involving the orphanage. Most of the people he got to kill each other were orphans and staff members he was never confirmed to have talked to prior, and the staff members were psychologists who had been running psychological experiments and such on the orphans there.

This is one where he knew a small amount about the person beforehand.

I can't find any more of these in English (or even with English subtitles, for some reason) to save my life, but I think you get the picture.
 
HeadlessKramerGeoff777 said:
Are we assume GF will not shoot him from hiding? As he/she doesn't really talk to opponent he/she doesn't know
Click to expand...
Exactly. Unless he has prep time to stalk the opponent and know that, in theory, he'd have the upper hand, he's likely to just kill them off as fodder. I don't buy the "talk into suicide" thing. In the Hannibal match, Jason's mum was a hell of a lot more unstable than Composite Ghostface.
 
It's hardly PIS, considering he constantly finds ways to disappear without a trace after committing major atrocities in-person. (like setting up the destruction of a library, or killing a group of fanatics while his sister is in the same building) What are you even assuming that based on?

Figuring out the layout of a camp based on watching several movies-- where the camp's overall look changes across each, at that-- is something Ghostface has never once done in any Scream film.

Black with a glaring white mask? Also, I fail to see how he has the stealth advantage based on "visibility" of all things if the battle takes place in the dark, where they'd both be just as hard to see due to lack of overall light-sources. Especially if they're both in hiding, considering Johan is just as good at doing so if not better.
 
In the first one, the place already seemed pretty ****** up from the start, so, not sure, if we don't know what he said to them.

In the second one, he just kinda guilt tripped the dude because he already knew about what he had done. Although I was half expecting the detective to just knock his ass out, prob what'd happen irl. >_>
 
So, he effectively commits a crime, then simply leaves without arousing suspicion?

That seems quite a bit lesser than actually stalking around in a costume and assassinating people, one by one. Unless you can elaborate on how he did that.

Ghostface's suit, while not perfect, is far superior to Johan's suit in regards to stealth.
 
He left his ward without being seen, went around the hospital without being seen, acquired poison, used it to kill the three men I mentioned above without being noticed, and the disappeared from the hospital.

There's also a scene I'm trying to locate that shows him having gotten into the building his sister was in, killed all of the other people in said building and made an exit before she even knew he was there.

>"Ghostface's suit, while not perfect, is far superior to Johan's suit in regards to stealth."

And what difference does that make if they're both in a camp where, unless someone turns the lights to one of the buildings on, they're surrounded in darkness with absolutely no light sources whatsoever?
 
It is nigh impossible for the environment to be literally pitch black, anywhere on earth. There will be some small semblance of light, which will reflect off of Johan far easier than Ghostface, given what Johan wears.
 
It hasn't had any lights illuminating the place since Freddy VS Jason. Possibly even further back than that, but I'd have to check the films to make sure.
 
Alright, I think I'm ready to vote.

There will be some light out, no matter what. While Johan's clothing stands out more than Ghostface's, that white mask will stand out like a sore thumb. This means that Johan could possibly see Ghostface just as good, if not more clearly than Ghostface can see Johan. Although there could be a good chance that Johan would not see Ghostface due to the hood Ghostface wears.

Both of them seem pretty equal in terms of stealth, but I would give it to Johan. He's capable of sneaking around dozens of people in broad daylight, while Ghostface tends to use his stealth around one person in the cover of night.

I also recall Ghostface being tricked into talking numerous times throughout the movies (Usually explaining why they killed and how they did it). And while it is true that Ghostface is not as insane as Pamela, Ghostface still has some mental problems, which Johan could use to exploit.

Ghostface's bullet-proof best would come in handy, and could give him the chance to shoot Johan before Johan shoots him. However, Johan could just ask him some random question, which will probably cause Ghostface to hesitate (He might even trick him into why he's killing), giving Johan the opportunity to shoot him in the head.

Both combatants are willing to kill, and Johan is pretty intelligent. He would know that shooting someone in the head would be a guaranteed kill, and probably do it.

Voting Johan.
 
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