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8-B Tournament Round 2, Match 2: Ken Kaneki vs Ashen One

RandomGuy2345

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The 2nd matchup of the 2nd round of the 8-B tournament!

Ken Kaneki (Sero) vs Ashen One (XSOULOFCINDERX)

Post Cochlea Kaneki and Beginning of Game Ashen will be used.

Speed is equalized.

Fight takes place in Tokyo.

Kaneki:

Ashen: 8 (XSOULOFCINDERX, LordGinSama, Rez, Sir_sun_man, jamesthetaker, Popted2, Veloxt1r0kore, Harith0Cell)

OIP.S9JS0_fArKw_XmdpNpvuHAHaEl


OIP.PZ_zwBS8K8E5bMYtYzhnCwHaKn


LET THE BATTLE BEGIN!
 
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XSOULOFCINDERX

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So I found out that Dark Souls 8-Bs are in the 50-ish Ton Range scaling from the Curse-rotted Greatwood so they're pretty dead center of 8-B. What does Kaneki scale to?
 

RandomGuy2345

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So I found out that Dark Souls 8-Bs are in the 50-ish Ton Range scaling from the Curse-rotted Greatwood so they're pretty dead center of 8-B. What does Kaneki scale to?
Based on this, Eto did a 17.4 tons feat and Kaneki was able to tear her Kakuja in a single attack. It's should be noted that Kakuja are basically armor that increases their durability so he would scales above said feat.
 

XSOULOFCINDERX

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In that case, this should be even easier than the fight against Gaara since Gaara was casually stronger than Kaneki's Feat and his sand could somewhat keep up with someone who could literally Blitz him, so Kaneki isn't anything new compared to Gaara or really most of the Stuff the Ashen One has dealt with at this point. That Class M is gonna be really annoying if the Ashen One tries to use the Dark Hand, but all their other Hax should still be Viable, especially stuff like Invisibility, Freezing, Homing Attacks, Fire, Dura Neg against Shields (not sure if Kaneki has any shields but still), Acid, Poison, Shockwaves, Healing, Summons, etc.
 

RandomGuy2345

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In that case, this should be even easier than the fight against Gaara since Gaara was casually stronger than Kaneki's Feat and his sand could somewhat keep up with someone who could literally Blitz him, so Kaneki isn't anything new compared to Gaara or really most of the Stuff the Ashen One has dealt with at this point. That Class M is gonna be really annoying if the Ashen One tries to use the Dark Hand, but all their other Hax should still be Viable, especially stuff like Invisibility, Freezing, Homing Attacks, Fire, Dura Neg against Shields (not sure if Kaneki has any shields but still), Acid, Poison, Shockwaves, Healing, Summons, etc.
Kaneki has Low-mid regen, RPL, Type 2 Immortality, Resistance to Pain, Analytical Prediction, Enhance Senses, among more.

I don't think this will be as easy as you think.
 

XSOULOFCINDERX

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Kaneki has Low-mid regen, RPL, Type 2 Immortality, Resistance to Pain, Analytical Prediction, Enhance Senses, among more.

I don't think this will be as easy as you think.
Type 2 isn't anything special, literally everyone in Dark Souls has that so that's nothing new. That Regen is annoying but not that difficult to overcome. Kaneki's only real advantage imo is his Analytical Prediction and Limited Power Mimicry which will allow him to copy the Ashen One's Fighting Style but aside from that, I still think the Ashen One has far more advantages in this confrontation. Plus, if Kaneki could destroy Eto's Armor shit with an unquantifiable Strength Difference then Ashen One's 3.46× Superior AP is gonna hit like a truck.
 

RandomGuy2345

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Type 2 isn't anything special, literally everyone in Dark Souls has that so that's nothing new. That Regen is annoying but not that difficult to overcome. Kaneki's only real advantage imo is his Analytical Prediction and Limited Power Mimicry which will allow him to copy the Ashen One's Fighting Style but aside from that, I still think the Ashen One has far more advantages in this confrontation. Plus, if Kaneki could destroy Eto's Armor shit with an unquantifiable Strength Difference then Ashen One's 3.46× Superior AP is gonna hit like a truck.
Kaneki can get stronger due to RPL and Statistics Amplifications.
 

XSOULOFCINDERX

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Kaneki can get stronger due to RPL and Statistics Amplifications.
I mean can he close a 3.46× Gap before the Ashen One uses their massive arsenal to slaughter him? Especially since from what I can tell, Kaneki broke through Eto's Kakuja or whatever it's called with an Unquantifiable AP Advantage, so what's stopping the Ashen One from doing the same with a nearly 4× Advantage that they can further buff with Abilities like Warcry which can stun Kaneki if AO is in Kaneki's Face when they use it? Not to mention all the Hax I mentioned earlier.
 

XSOULOFCINDERX

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Tell me about his invisibility, does it mask only his visual presence? or does it also hide sound and smell?
I mean the Ashen One can hide their Footsteps at the same time but Smell has never been a thing focused on by Dark Souls Spells.
 
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Those comments were made before the calc was finally accepted. Apparently they never actually concluded if it was usable or not.
 
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I don’t know how fixing it would work. I’ll just comment on the blog to make it clear to new readers.
 

XSOULOFCINDERX

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Anyways, even using the 45.83 end, the Ashen One still has a 2.63× AP Advantage which is still noteworthy enough for me to mention the Unquantifiable Gap that Kaneki used to tear through Eto.
 
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Ok so made the comment, accidentally posted it as a reply to another comment and I have no clue how to delete it so, oops.

Ignoring that, I’ll just read how fast is Kaneki’s regeneration and does he have a way past resurrection. If he’s going for a knock out all I have to say is good luck because the Ashen can repeatedly be hit upside the head by a warhammer from someone stronger than himself and they never get close to falling unconscious. They consistently fight to the death.
 

RandomGuy2345

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Anyways, even using the 45.83 end, the Ashen One still has a 2.63× AP Advantage which is still noteworthy enough for me to mention the Unquantifiable Gap that Kaneki used to tear through Eto.
Kaneki scales above 17.4 tons, which means the AP difference is a bit less than 2.63x. Kaneki will now be even harder to kill.
 
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Ah so his invisibility should not be to hard to get through thanks to Kanaki's Enhanced sense of smell, Good to know
Next.
, Freezing, Homing Attacks, Fire, Dura Neg against Shields (not sure if Kaneki has any shields but still), Acid, Poison, Shockwaves, Healing, Summons, etc.
-Freezing is a problem but i think he can break himself out the ice with his lifting strength.
-Homing attacks should be counterd by his extreme acrobatic ability.
-to what extent is his fire manip?, is it only physical attacks or does he have some ranged blaze stuff? (nevermind i saw the pyromanacy page. hmmmmm).
-it does not seem like he has dura negation in his standard equipment unless i accidently skipped it.
-I'm assuming Acid and poison are through potions and if so then Kanaki dodges.
-Shock waves interesting but it seems like it has a decent wind up before use, and considering Kaneki's a very agressive fighter, i doubt he's gonna get a chance to use it.
-Kanaki has regen negation, but maybe it doesn't work on potions....how do they work?
-Ooooo Summons, the summons don't seem to have a page or any information really on them...can you find me a link to them?
(This is my first time seriously debating so excuse if i made some errors along the way-)
 
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Just a reminder the Ashen One also upscales from his feat, he gets stronger throughout the beginning game by devouring souls and the Tree is a very early boss. Also if we follow Skyrim and Demon Soul’s logic the Ashen One would actually be 90 tons because he would have the tree’s power plus his own because he could kill the tree then stole its soul for power. Though that would need to be its own thread. For now just know the Ashen One upscales.
 
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I'm assuming Acid and poison are through potions and if so then Kanaki dodges.”

They’re through spells and they are AoE clouds. Granted not big clouds, but it isn’t as bad as throwing a potion.

Freezing is a problem but i think he can break himself out the ice with his lifting strength.”

That’s not how freezing works on this site, nor in darks souls or real life. Freezing kills you by stopping your internal processes as they, well, freeze and stop working.
 

XSOULOFCINDERX

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Ah so his invisibility should not be to hard to get through thanks to Kanaki's Enhanced sense of smell, Good to know
Next.

-Freezing is a problem but i think he can break himself out the ice with his lifting strength.

-Homing attacks should be counterd by his extreme acrobatic ability.
-to what extent is his fire manip?, is it only physical attacks or does he have some ranged blaze stuff? (nevermind i saw the pyromanacy page. hmmmmm).
-it does not seem like he has dura negation in his standard equipment unless i accidently skipped it.
-I'm assuming Acid and poison are through potions and if so then Kanaki dodges.
-Shock waves interesting but it seems like it has a decent wind up before use, and considering Kaneki's a very agressive fighter, i doubt he's gonna get a chance to use it.
-Kanaki has regen negation, but maybe it doesn't work on potions....how do they work?
-Ooooo Summons, the summons don't seem to have a page or any information really on them...can you find me a link to them?
(This is my first time seriously debating so excuse if i made some errors along the way-)
The Dark Drift (Dura Neg against Shields) is in the Optional Equipment which I'm assuming we're using since the Ashen One only has Basic Melee Weapons and Healing Spells.

The Summons are more so Spells that summon shit to use as Projectiles.
 
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The Summons are more so Spells that summon shit to use as Projectiles.
Ooooh okay, then Etherial blades kaneki is going to have to dodge, if there just regular swords then his regen should do it's work.
Lions spirit.....so can you hurt the lion or is it intangible-
The fudge is a Valor heart-
Insect swarm is worring but kaneki should be able to swat them away and if not then regen
 

RandomGuy2345

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@RandomGuy2345 Are we allowing optional equipment and if so how much of it?
Optional equipment can be used if the OP states in the rules of the versus matchup that optional equipment is allowed.

Optional equipment is allowed. IIRC, Ashen only has a limited amount of abilities in his 8-B key.
 
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They’re through spells and they are AoE clouds. Granted not big clouds, but it isn’t as bad as throwing a potion.
Ah.......okay that makes things more tricky. Is the cloud instantaneous or does it take time to spread out?
 
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That’s not how freezing works on this site, nor in darks souls or real life. Freezing kills you by stopping your internal processes as they, well, freeze and stop working.
OH SORRY- i thought that it was more so being encased in ice, so kaneki is just going to have to doge huh....is the freeze instant or does it take time/multiple hits in order to take affect?
 
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Optional equipment can be used if the OP states in the rules of the versus matchup that optional equipment is allowed.

Optional equipment is allowed. IIRC, Ashen only has a limited amount of abilities in his 8-B key.
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuu- so we're giving him everything!?........oh goooooooooooooooooooooooooooood....so much reading.....
 

XSOULOFCINDERX

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OH SORRY- i thought that it was more so being encased in ice, so kaneki is just going to have to doge huh....is the freeze instant or does it take time/multiple hits in order to take affect?
The Ashen One has a Sword that freezes enemies and a Spell that makes a Foggy Cloud that also Freezes enemies when their Resistance to Ice finally fails and since Kaneki doesn't Resist it at all, he gets Frozen upon contact.
 
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The Ashen One has a Sword that freezes enemies and a Spell that makes a Foggy Cloud that also Freezes enemies when their Resistance to Ice finally fails and since Kaneki doesn't Resist it at all, he gets Frozen upon contact.
Okay that is worrying, time to shoot back, how fast can he cast these incantations?, Are they instant or does he have to have a few seconds in order to cast them?
Also how adept is he at hand to hand combat?
 

XSOULOFCINDERX

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Okay that is worrying, time to shoot back, how fast can he cast these incantations?, Are they instant or does he have to have a few seconds in order to cast them?
Also how adept is he at hand to hand combat?
The Spells take a 1.5 Seconds to cast in most cases, including the Snap Freeze Spell.

As for H2H, it's like basic H2H but at the same time it's not really gonna matter when an assload of weapons in their Inventory in case they get Disarmed.
 
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The Spells take a 1.5 Seconds to cast in most cases, including the Snap Freeze Spell.

As for H2H, it's like basic H2H but at the same time it's not really gonna matter when an assload of weapons in their Inventory in case they get Disarmed.
Okay yea 1.5.....i can maybe debate that kaneki isn't gonna give him enough time to chant it but 1.5....does he have to stand still to cast it?


Hm fair, where does he store his weapons? can he just summons them or are they in a backpack?
 

XSOULOFCINDERX

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Okay yea 1.5.....i can maybe debate that kaneki isn't gonna give him enough time to chant it but 1.5....does he have to stand still to cast it?


Hm fair, where does he store his weapons? can he just summons them or are they in a backpack?
No, they can move while casting it but they have to stand still for the instant they Fire it.

They just kinda pull them out of thin air. There isn't really a stated storage for their gear.
 
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Rez

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How fast is Ken’s low mid regeneration, and does he have a way past resurrection
Pretty fast
Kaneki can eat his limbs once he sees him ressurect
Eating will also amp his regen speed and give him a minor stat boost also his rpl has allowed him to fight and win against people who previously could casually stomp him (yamori, Takizawa and upto some extent eto) but I don't think that really matters when the opponent can amp themselves into one shot territory
 
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Pretty fast
Kaneki can eat his limbs once he sees him ressurect
Eating will also amp his regen speed and give him a minor stat boost also his rpl has allowed him to fight and win against people who previously could casually stomp him (yamori, Takizawa and upto some extent eto) but I don't think that really matters when the opponent can amp themselves into one shot territory
tenor.gif
-(How i see Raz right now)
 

RandomGuy2345

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Pretty fast
Kaneki can eat his limbs once he sees him ressurect
Eating will also amp his regen speed and give him a minor stat boost also his rpl has allowed him to fight and win against people who previously could casually stomp him (yamori, Takizawa and upto some extent eto) but I don't think that really matters when the opponent can amp themselves into one shot territory
Do you think Kaneki can win this?
 
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ok how will kenki overcome the type 8 immortality?
cuse ken might have a better regen here but that type 8 is gonna make ashen one literally unkillble for ken here.

not to mention since we give any and all possible equipment for the start of the game pyromancy that is segnificantly higher then kens dura cna outright vaporize him
 
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like hell you can get that kombustion spell early on and with that thing the ashen one can quite literally melt ken from inside out
 
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eh let me give it a shot


After his battle with the soul of cinder the ashen one decided that the first flame must fade once and for all he summoned the fire keeper and she proceeded to rest the flame from its mantel and as the first flame finally gone out the fabric of space and time came apart ripping the ashen one into lands unfamiliar and strange throwing him into the middle of battle between Kanoha and the sand village he saw the sand ninja killing defenseless people and began to fight them but he noticed that he became considerably weaker seems that due to the flame throwing him into a different time and place upon its final moments it has ripped away the souls and strength he has gather throughout his journey but he was still more then capable of battling these ninja and killing all of them he proceeded to traverse Kanoha to help people when he came upon Garaa killing dozens of people and as Garaa was about to kill another person the ashen one intervened attacking Garaa: Fight*

After beating Garaa and saving the people he was about to kill, the effects of the flame returned throwing the ashen one across space and time once more where he precided to land in tokyo a land even stranger then the last with metal boxes traveling faster then any horse and metal dragons flying through the sky not hurting a single soul quite different from the dragons of his world, he preceded to explore tokyo drawing a lot of attention to himself with people using strange triangles to flash lights at him and complemented him on something called cosplay? he had no idea what they were talking about but they where harmless so he let them do whatever they wanted but when he turned into an ally he saw a monsters humanoid ripping apart a large muscular human man he was too late to save that man but he would make sure that this beast would not harm another human: Fight*

The fight concluded the demon has been bested with swiftness but the effects of the flame seem to have not subsided just yet ripping the ashen one from space and time once more.
 

XSOULOFCINDERX

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eh let me give it a shot


After his battle with the soul of cinder the ashen one decided that the first flame must fade once and for all he summoned the fire keeper and she proceeded to rest the flame from its mantel and as the first flame finally gone out the fabric of space and time came apart ripping the ashen one into lands unfamiliar and strange throwing him into the middle of battle between Kanoha and the sand village he saw the sand ninja killing defenseless people and began to fight them but he noticed that he became considerably weaker seems that due to the flame throwing him into a different time and place upon its final moments it has ripped away the souls and strength he has gather throughout his journey but he was still more then capable of battling these ninja and killing all of them he proceeded to traverse Kanoha to help people when he came upon Garaa killing dozens of people and as Garaa was about to kill another person the ashen one intervened attacking Garaa: Fight*

After beating Garaa and saving the people he was about to kill, the effects of the flame returned throwing the ashen one across space and time once more where he precided to land in tokyo a land even stranger then the last with metal boxes traveling faster then any horse and metal dragons flying through the sky not hurting a single soul quite different from the dragons of his world, he preceded to explore tokyo drawing a lot of attention to himself with people using strange triangles to flash lights at him and complemented him on something called cosplay? he had no idea what they were talking about but they where harmless so he let them do whatever they wanted but when he turned into an ally he saw a monsters humanoid ripping apart a large muscular human man he was too late to save that man but he would make sure that this beast would not harm another human: Fight*

The fight concluded the demon has been bested with swiftness but the effects of the flame seem to have not subsided just yet ripping the ashen one from space and time once more.
I love how this story has Ashen One consistently being Heroic even when we don't have a consistent personality for them. It's pretty decent though it heavily contradicts the story of how the Ashen One ran into Gaara in the first fight, but I guess I'll take what I can get at this point.
 

Jamesthetaker

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There is little i could say for Ken Kaneki, aside from that Ashen stat amps and versatility give him the edge here.

Kaneki still have a wincon if he manage to restrain Ashen with higher LS or somehow avoid everything Ashen thrown at him via Analytical Prediction, albeit the chance are slim. Ashen just have better win so this isn't a stomp.
 

Rez

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There is little i could say for Ken Kaneki, aside from that Ashen stat amps and versatility give him the edge here.

Kaneki still have a wincon if he manage to restrain Ashen with higher LS or somehow avoid everything Ashen thrown at him via Analytical Prediction, albeit the chance are slim. Ashen just have better win so this isn't a stomp.
If somehow Kaneki does manages to actually pull this then ashen one will simply respawn at a bonfire because of his type 8 immortality and one shot him with stat amps
 
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I love how this story has Ashen One consistently being Heroic even when we don't have a consistent personality for them. It's pretty decent though it heavily contradicts the story of how the Ashen One ran into Gaara in the first fight, but I guess I'll take what I can get at this point.
i could redo it if ya want
 
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I just want to mention even a bonefire is broken the Ashen One can still travel and use them (resurrect from them), so breaking the bonefire doesn’t get past the type 8.

And restraining the Ashen One doesn’t work, he can think and return to the bonefire via the curse.

So this seems like a massive stomp.
 
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What is basic type 8 immortality and can Kaneki even get past that?
short answere no

and type 8 is whats called reliant immortality the most basic one is having your being linked to an item say a seal as long as said seal is in tact you cannot die unless your opponent can bypass type 8 or destroy your soul

ashen one has a pretty good type 8 as he is linked to the first flame and as long as it burns he simply will never die and the first flame is locked away in the future so the only thing is to wait for it to go out by it self destroying the soul won't do a thing here since ashen on doesn't have one due to being hollow.
 
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I know the Ashe One’s immortality. I was asking the other person what they thought basic type 8 is since I don’t think type 8 could ever be considered basic.
 
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Isn’t that the basis of type 8, you are linked to something. Even if you are linked to an object the large majority of the time those objects are cartoonishly far away or hard to get to. I won’t call it basic, just a bit easier to get around in specific scenarios.
 
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RandomGuy2345

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"The Ashen One resurrects at the nearest Bonfire."

This was a quote from @XSOULOFCINDERX in the Ashen One vs Gaara match. It seems that Ashen's Resurrection is heavily dependent on the location.

This fight takes place in Tokyo, so how long will it take for Ashen to resurrect?
 

RandomGuy2345

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What? I'm talking about the Ashen one being BFR whem killed, sinse they ressurect next to his last bonfire, without one near he juste BFR himself
That's still OP asf for the tournament.

Every time you die, you self BFR yourself to a bonfire and get stronger.
 

Rez

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It's... Not, he can use the ability, It's just the place the battle tales place don't let him use it in a advantageous way, sinse thers no bonfire around
It is though the bonfire is in darksouls world which means he can't make use of it in this battle. Also he has dimensional travel how does that works
 
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It is though the bonfire is in darksouls world which means he can't make use of it in this battle. Also he has dimensional travel how does that works
If he can't use beacuse of the place the battle takes place it isn't against the rules

I don't know about darke souls tô explain dimensional travel, I'm just here to explain that bonfire ressurection
 
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Restricting abilities because of location is not allowed either
It's not restricting, he just can't use, like putting a water bender in a desert without water(this would led to stomps in this case but tecnically is allowed) unless you can show me where it is written that the environment cannot hinder the use of powers for one of the fighters
 

Rez

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If this is true doesn't that invalidate the match with garaa since in that it was assumed his type 8 will work
 
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