(8-0-0) The Hero of Time faces his Judgement (Link vs. Judgement (Helltaker))

[Jackythejack]

The Hero of Time: 5
The High Prosecutor:
Inconclusive:

Speed is equalized.
Fight takes place on the sin machine itself.
Combatants start ten meters apart from each other.
Child link is used
No chains allowed for Judgement and in return Link has no potions or bottles (They're not in his standard equipment).

Spoiler: Thumbnail

Spoiler: Story

Having fallen into the well of Kakariko village, Link had seen horror untold, not meant for a boy of his age. Aggressive, festering corpses that were still walking among the living, ready to eat him alive, cackling ghosts that were trying to take his soul, and even demons who spewed smoke from their mouth and threatened him with violence. He had seen it all, and he had persevered. He didn't know where the dungeon ended, but he knew that he had to get out of there.

Then, he saw it, a giant machine that towered over even the largest buildings he had seen, dwarfed by only Hyrule Castle itself. Chains were strewn about, tied to different parts of the complex machinery. For a moment, he was awestruck. Then, there was the laughter all around him.

"Trynna make your way out, kid?" A figure leaped onto the machine. A devil, like the others he had encountered; white hair and horns growing out of her head. She grinned, hand on her hip as she looked down at him. "Didn't your mom ever tell you that death's a one way trip?"

Death? No, that wasn't right. He couldn't be dead. He just took a bad fall, that's all. Silently, he took out his slingshot and aimed it toward the demon. She scoffed.

"Guess I'll have to show you some manners." She brought her hands up, flames crackling around them. "Bring it on, kid!"

 

[MrKerf]

You should specify that you’re using kid Link.

0,74 vs 1,32 in Link’s favor

Abilities wise… well, that’s a weird matchup.
I’ll think about it more later, following for now.

Leaning towards Judgement though. If the fight takes place on Sin Machine - that means Hell. Which already gives massive disadvantages to Link like ash in lungs and instant death if lost will.

 

[Jackythejack]

Should I move it out of hell, you think?

 

[Chariot190]

Link ain't ever losing his will so that's a nonfactor.
Ash might be problematic tho.

 

[Jackythejack]

I can move it out of hell if necessary if people thinks it'll be too much of a game changer.

 

[Jackythejack]

bumpos

 

[LaserPrecision]

I think Ash in the lungs would be problematic, but not problematic enough to move it out. I feel outside of that advantage, Judgement doesn't have a whole lot going for her when her chains are taken away since that's her main method of fighting. I would think most people comparable would beat her in H2H combat if they were even decently skilled (I don't think she's a clueless fighter by any means, but her main method of fighting is with chains, and even then, she prefers to torture opponents rather than quickly going for a kill. I'm not too knowledgeable on Link, but from what I do know about him, he's pretty skilled). The only thing she'd have going for her is her fire which is very close range without her chains, and if Link has a counter to that, there goes her really only good advantage without chains.

The only other way I see her having a chance would be putting her in a different area where he technology manipulation could be used or smth.

 

[Jackythejack]

I don't think Link has a way around fire, and said fire could be really tricky. She used it to kill off the Helltaker before she could even see him, implying that she has some range going for her. The torture is mainly due to killing people and bringing them back to life. However, I feel like if Link gives her a hard enough time with the first kill she won't be stupid enough to bring him back to life. Link's also a child meaning that he's not as skilled as other incarnation and Judgement is a pretty good High Prosecutor and has been for a long time, so presumably she's had decent experience in the past.

Also she at least has an LS advantage so could win in a grapple fight or disarm Link.

 

[Chariot190]

Link has no potions or bottles

The bottles should be in his standard equipment, just not any specific bottled item or potion tbh

Link is def skilled enough, he might not be as skilled as some other Links, but if we take Link right before he pulls the Master Sword, he's going to be at least skilled enough to run circles around someone who lacks any.

Fire, well, he doesnt resist it, but he can still take some pretty nasty heat damage and live

 

[MrKerf]

Considering her usual method of fighting is ranged, I believe she’d rather use fire than claws.

 

[Jackythejack]

Unfortunately there's no statement on how hot her fire is but it is enough to like, immediately kill the Helltaker so there's something. I don't think she lacks any skill. Link is definitely the more skilled combatant but I think with the use of the sin machine which forces Link to be constantly moving towards the center and with her fire she can certainly put him on edge.

Since his shield is made out of wood she could probably like, burn it too.

 

[Chariot190]

Also she at least has an LS advantage so could win in a grapple fight or disarm Link.

If she physically engages with Link, she's dying. She best play range, though Link also has some ranged stuff. Deku Nuts can blind and paralyze her, enabling him to get close unhindered for example, they're basically flash grenades with a generic video game stun effect that lasts a handful of seconds, and he has multiple.

Since his shield is made out of wood she could probably like, burn it too.

He still has the Hylian Shield, it's just not as wieldy and forces him to stop to use it properly, but it basically blocks anything she can do in turn.

 

[Chariot190]

Wait, couldn't the Song of Storms help mitigate the fire

 

[Jackythejack]

Oh I forgot you can get the Hylian shield as the child lol. It's funny when the response is to just turn your back to the problem. I think that thing is a little too unwieldy to rely on as a way of blocking damage, though. Having to turn your body 180 degrees every time to block an attack is rough, and again because of the Sin Machine he can't afford to stop for too long otherwise he loses precious ground.

Wait, couldn't the Song of Storms help mitigate the fire

I don't see the ocarina as viable in combat personally? Also like, I think Hell would technically count as an indoor space and a place where you can't use the song of storms. iirc there are definitely places you just can't use it in.

 

[Chariot190]

Oh I forgot you can get the Hylian shield as the child lol. It's funny when the response is to just turn your back to the problem. I think that thing is a little too unwieldy to rely on as a way of blocking damage, though. Having to turn your body 180 degrees every time to block an attack is rough, and again because of the Sin Machine he can't afford to stop for too long otherwise he loses precious ground.

His movement speed more than makes up for it, speed equal or not. The location they fight in isn't getting equalized after all.

I don't see the ocarina as viable in combat personally? Also like, I think Hell would technically count as an indoor space and a place where you can't use the song of storms. iirc there are definitely places you just can't use it in.

Why not? It's not useful in combat because there is almost never any good reason to use it, but sometimes there is, and in those instances, it works fine, like using the Sun Song to incap or kill the undead like ReDeads.
And it's situational, but the song of storms can be used in places, for example in the main questline in OOT featuring it, you use it within the windmill, and in Majora you use it against Flats within a cave


There's definitely places you can't use it in (I think? Can't remember any off the top of my head), but there's at least two scripted canonical moments of it being used indoors.

 

[Jackythejack]

I more mean that it's not combat applicable because I feel like if Link takes out an ocarina she can just smack it out of his hands or something. I know in game time stops when you're playing the ocarina but I'm pretty sure that's only for convenience sake.

 

[Chariot190]

I more mean that it's not combat applicable because I feel like if Link takes out an ocarina she can just smack it out of his hands or something. I know in game time stops when you're playing the ocarina but I'm pretty sure that's only for convenience sake.

She's gonna have to do it before he can move his fingers a few spots, and moving his fingers a total of like ten cm is a lot less difficult than throwing a chain like 30m.
If it's hellfire and brimstone, I don't see why he wouldn't lead with an easy solution, and at that point, she ain't hitting him before he gets it off

 

[Chariot190]

Also he can just drop a deku nut before playing if it's that big an issue :frug:

 

[Jackythejack]

An entire song takes Link like a good ten seconds to finish at least. You can input the buttons fast but he still has to follow a set rhythm and tempo. I've played the 3DS version like 5 years ago I vaguely know what I'm talking about lol. I think that these combatants move too fast for Link to be able to do that.

Granted, I wish I knew how long the deku nuts stun for. It would be useful to know. Wiki doesn't give me any info.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I don't think Link has a way around fire, and said fire could be really tricky. She used it to kill off the Helltaker before she could even see him, implying that she has some range going for her.

That was because she lit the chain around him on fire. At least that was what was implied. I think I noted it on her profile.

 

[Chariot190]

An entire song takes Link like a good ten seconds to finish at least. You can input the buttons fast but he still has to follow a set rhythm and tempo. I've played the 3DS version like 5 years ago I vaguely know what I'm talking about lol. I think that these combatants move too fast for Link to be able to do that.

It takes him literally 4 and a half seconds for the Song of Storms, not ten, literally half that time, and given speed is equal, if he does while she's stunned or as a lead, he'll be fine

But as said, deku nuts.
They last long enough given he has dozens of the things (or well, almost two dozen), hell, if anything he can just spam them, walk up, stab. Her lacking any resistance to what are effectively flash grenades and with him having a whole bag of those things makes this pretty low diff.

I think that these combatants move too fast for Link to be able to do that.

In speed equal and 30m, not really. One nut, he's good to go, they last like, well kinda hard to find footage where someone doesn't immediately unstun the enemy, but they last like 8ish seconds, and Link has 20 of them.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Which means Judgement is likely going to have to rely on CQC. Which I think Link kinda folds her in. Again, she's not entirely inexperienced, but she's really reliant on her chains (I imagine she's somewhat experienced in CQC given her claws and batons attached to her arm but...)

 

[Jackythejack]

so two for link?

 

[Chariot190]

My bad, idk why I thought it was 30m apart I blame peppersalt
But 10m? He literally just drops one nut, runs up, stabs. he can cover 10m before it wears off.

 

[LaserPrecision]

so two for link?

Guess so. Without her chains, I feel her only hope is stalling him out or smth, assuming the smoke and bad air quality would eventually kill him (She can fly after all). Just don't think that's quite in character for her.

 

[Jackythejack]

two for link.

i just wanna give my girl a good fight-

 

[LaserPrecision]

two for link.

i just wanna give my girl a good fight-

Same

 

[Peppersalt43]

I blame peppersalt

What debating in matches that actually specify starting distance does to a MF

Also, Lonk FRA

 

[MrKerf]

You can maybe unrestrict chains, but keep close distance.

 

[Jackythejack]

If I unrestrict chains she just one shots link though, no?

 

[Jackythejack]

bumpus

 

[jojo123]

Lonk FRA

 

[Chariot190]

If I unrestrict chains she just one shots link though, no?

You could maybe give Link some fairy bullshit to compensate
his win condition remains the same tho

 

[CrackerVolley]

Link throws his deku nut
Link FRA

 

[Jackythejack]

I think that's five

 

[Jackythejack]

bump

 

[Jackythejack]

bump

 

[Mariogoods]

I vote to Link FRA.

 

[Chariot190]

Well I'm obviously on Link's side, I've been thinking. Is this fair? Link has 20 Deku nuts, he can and will use them.
Does she have a way around this? Because 20 is beyond enough for him to get in and land killing blows for free with zero risk. Seems a little unfair.

 

[Jackythejack]

could have said that like a week ago dude. .