4-B Thing

[Yobo_Blue]

Fantastic Four profiles as of now are bad, as I've found from reading the series. This is going to be my first attempt to start fixing profiles for the characters.

For starters, the Thing harms the Hulk alot. As we all know, Marvel is inconsistent, but this happens so often it's hard to ignore. He's harmed the Hulk numerous times, and has faced him many, many times. Even when considered massively weaker, he is still described as being capable of taking blows from him and being somewhat able to harm him. The two regularly match strength and consider each other to be equal in most cases,

The Thing also consistently harms the Silver Surfer (Marvel Comics). In fact, in terms of raw physical strength the Thing is depicted as immensely above him even when holding back, necessitating Surfer to use his power increase to match him. Even after that point, The Thing is mostly unharmed by the blows and is capable of forcibly taking his board.

In general, he's capable of harming 4-B beings besides those two regularly. He was able to harm and tank blows from the Champion, who defeated the Hulk. He has also defeated Fin Fang Foom, and has matched Doom using Surfer's power (including the power increase ability shown above). He has also matched Namor quite regularly. Additionally, he has matched Hercules and tanked Black Bolt's Master Blow, described as being his most powerful and draining attack and being compared the Hulk in power. He has also taken numerous blows from Juggernaut Colossus.

TLDR: The Thing is consistent enough for at least a possibly 4-B rating and likely flat out 4-B durability due to his endurance being generally accentuated to be greater and more consistently 4-B.

(I apologize for the poor grammar)

 

[DragonEmperor23]

I agree with 4-B across the board.

 

[DMUA]

Yeah this sounds pretty 4-B

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Eh, I'm hesitant to say he's 4-B flat out in offensive capabilities, as Marvel has recently been portraying him more and more as a punching bag for numerous reasons and it totally has nothing to do with politics, honest to add to their really bad scaling recently, but even during times when he's portrayed as weaker, it's made clear he's capable of taking a lot of blows even from 4-Bs as a punching bag would, being made to be punched a lot

 

[DragonEmperor23]

When you say he's portrayed as a punching bag, do you mean that recently he hasn't been hitting that hqrd?

 

[Yobo_Blue]

When you say he's portrayed as a punching bag, do you mean that recently he hasn't been hitting that hqrd?

?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Cause I don't see how the punching bag comparison relates to him becoming physically weaker.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Cause I don't see how the punching bag comparison relates to him becoming physically weaker.

Well, in general the Thing has always been portrayed as a bit of a stone wall, hence why many of the above scans refer to the Thing's determination and endurance as his greatest power.

 

[Jo-Smooth]

If anything, he would still be 4-B with his durability scaling higher than his AP and being able to take higher levels of 4-B attacks than he could dish since he is able to harm 4-B's even if he isn't on their same level.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Eh, perhaps.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

What Jo said.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Honestly I'm not entirely sure of that but I'll wait for more input.

 

[Ionliosite]

I fully agree that Ben is a 4-B with higher dura than AP.

Not technically related, but I can't wait for the MCU FF film. I hope Disney do them right THIS time, unlike Fox's 3 previous attempts.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

It's worth noting most times that the Hulk is usually only able begin to fully stomp or beat the Thing in their battles after long bouts of combat due to both his close to infinite stamina and healing capabilities as well as his constantly increasing strength. Make of that what you will.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I fully agree that Ben is a 4-B with higher dura than AP.

Not technically related, but I can't wait for the MCU FF film. I hope Disney do them right THIS time, unlike Fox's 3 previous attempts.

Boy do I have news for you

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Bump

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Yeah I agree with The Thing becoming 4-B. Even in the current comics he does ahve some depictions of being at least comparable to the oher 4-Bs in power.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I think I'll message some knowledgeable members than

 

[Js250476]

Would this scale to anyone else like say Doom and Invisible Women?

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Honestly, personally I'm iffy on scaling Doom to Thing. He's matched him once or twice, but it's made clear on other occasions he's far weaker without amps like the power cosmic, and in general when fighting the Fantastic Four he relies mostly on gadgets and trickery. It doesn't help that it's difficult to always say with 100% certainty whether or not it's Doom or a robot.

Invisible Woman, probably, but I'd personally double check her feats

 

[Hellbeast1]

I'm personally good with Thing being 5-A with 4-B dura (or possibly 4-B cross the board)

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah, no question this is flat-out 4-B

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Yeah, 4-B Thing seems oddly consistent going by those scans. I'd be fine with "At least 5-A, likely up to 4-B" or something of the sort, while his durability should be just straight-up 4-B. Although him being at that level all across the board is fine by me too.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that this seems fine, although the Champion did not defeat the Hulk, as shown in your scan. He just used teleportation.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Seems fine from what I can see.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I suppose that this seems fine, although the Champion did not defeat the Hulk, as shown in your scan. He just used teleportation.

Hmm, on closer inspection you are correct. But iirc it was still implied he could harm the Hulk as well.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

The Champion of the Universe's profile for reference

 

[SuperAPM]

This kinda comes at a bad time given their most recent fight. While Grimm ended up knocking Hulk out he utterly destroyed his arm in the process, and sustained heavy damage from everyone of Hulk's blows to the point that bits of his rocky exterior was being chipped off, including a massive chunk of his face, whilst only doing superficial damage and only knocking hulk out briefly before being left unconscious for an entire week. Here's the full fight for all the see:

https://***************.to/Comic/Fantastic-Four-2018/Issue-12?id=158860#12

https://***************.to/Comic/Fantastic-Four-2018/Issue-13?id=159443#3

As far as I remember Joe Fixit is still comparable than Thing, at least in the instance presented in Fantastic Four #320 and Incredible Hulk #350, where an amped Thing barely outpaced a, what I recall, weakened Joe Fixit, and after that he still ended up beating Thing, at least by outsmarting him

https://***************.to/Comic/Fantastic-Four-1961/Issue-320?id=27028

https://***************.to/Comic/The-Incredible-Hulk-1968/Issue-350?id=18749#1

Under normal circumstances this would just mean putting him in a lower class of 4-B, since even accounting for the superficial amount of damage he usually does against the 4-B's would still make him somewhat comparable.

But I think the issue is that this would affect a lot more than just good ol' Grimm here, basically every character currently rated as 5-A would be bumped up to 4-B, even if its in a lower bracket. At least with Namor, we could excuse this level of power creep by suggesting his power level varies depending on how hydrated he is, similar to Deep Sea King from One Punch Man, but the Thing possess' no such benefits, instances in which he gains a power up still only presents him as barely comparable to a character currently rated as 5-A. That is unless of course Grey Hulk also gets bumped up to 4-B, alongside characters like Sue, Colossus, Vulcan, Black Bolt (physically) and so on.

Personally I'm fine with placing Grimm at 4-B, at least in a lower bracket, but this'll effect a lot more than just him, so perhaps a larger content revision is needed for any changes to take place.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

From my understanding Hulk has been amped recently

 

[Js250476]

Oh yeah Hulk has been a new form called Immortal Hulk, for quite a while now iirc.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Besides that point, my only issue is that it is nigh impossible to remove all the issues with Marvel scaling at once, and waiting for a perfect or even just universal 5-A CRT is unrealistic, especially since that level of scaling may not even be accurate as of now

 

[SuperAPM]

We'd need to take it in a case by case basis then. If Thing gets this upgrade we'll need to figure out who'd scale alongside him from there, preferably in this thread if possible.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I was personally hoping to group all the Fantastic Four stuff into its own thread.

 

[SuperAPM]

To my knowledge the only one who would scale amongst the Fantastic Four is Sue. Unless that's not what you had in mind, and if not what are your plans with the FF if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Eficiente]

I disagree with this. Hulk has battled a lot of dudes lower than 4-B, him having a variable tier is far more reasonable than others scaling to 4-B. Being below someone you're able to harm also doesn't help, verses don't know exactly how above or below dudes are from each other, being able to do something that they shouldn't is ok for everyone if done briefly.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

To my knowledge the only one who would scale amongst the Fantastic Four is Sue. Unless that's not what you had in mind, and if not what are your plans with the FF if you don't mind me asking?

Overhauling the profiles for the main four (Thing, Torch, Mr. Fantastic, and Invisible Woman)

 

[Antvasima]

SuperAPM and Eficiente are probably correct. This would likely mess up our scaling too much, and the Marvel superhero profiles are largely based on a few outliers as it is. I have asked Kepekley23 and Sera EX to take a look at revising them.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

In that case, would it be better for me to wait to make something regarding the entirety of the Fantastic Four?

 

[Antvasima]

Probably yes. I think that the Grey Hulk feat is likely an outlier for example. The sheer inconsistency of the Marvel character power levels in relation to each other never cease to give us problems.

 

[SuperAPM]

Isn't that feat mostly attributed to the momentum created by the rocket boots Hulk was wearing to get up there? I only have a vague recollection of that scene so, correct me if I'm wrong