2 Fairy Tail Dragon Slayer Revisions

[Eseseso]

1. So on the profiles of Sting and Rogue, it says that their DF transformations are equal to X784 DF Natsu.

I disagree with this, because if Sting and Rogue in base each scale far above someone (Max) who easily beat Base X784 Natsu, then their 3x multiplying DF transformations should each be above X784 DF Natsu.

It seems to me like it is referring to the Dragon Force transformation and the unique ability to use it, rather than Sting and Rogue's power levels in comparison to Natsu's.

2. After thinking it over, I really think that the assumption that X791 Gajeel's ISDM became weaker in X791 after its initial usage is frankly backed by no evidence and/or statements in-universe.

Even comparing it to Natsu's LFDM and how it changed after its initial usage, the only time that we saw X784 LFDM Natsu after the initial use it was for one moment to scare Max after Max defeated his base, and nothing in that scene proved it to be weaker than its initial usage.

In X791, LFDM Natsu wasn't the same post-Second Origin compared to before likely because Natsu had gotten a power boost, something which X791 Gajeel did not have throughout the X791 saga.

If anything, the opposite is implied by Natsu and Gajeel's dialogue in chapter 395, where Natsu boasts about the power of X784 Laxus in his LFDM being above the power of Rogue's shadow power that is in X791 ISDM.

Thus, I do not think X791 ISDM Gajeel got any weaker after his Rogue fight due to nothing whatsoever even implying this in story.

 

[Eseseso]

Bump

 

[Eseseso]

Bump

 

[Eseseso]

bump

 

[Eseseso]

bump

 

[Eseseso]

bump

 

[Popted2]

agree with op

 

[Eseseso]

Bump

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Agree with op

 

[AnonymousBlank]

1. So on the profiles of Sting and Rogue, it says that their DF transformations are equal to X784 DF Natsu.

I disagree with this, because if Sting and Rogue in base each scale far above someone (Max) who easily beat Base X784 Natsu, then their 3x multiplying DF transformations should each be above X784 DF Natsu.

Aight so on the DF thing, Erza is talking about the technique but Jellal is talking about power. It also doesn’t matter as they would get the x3 multiplier so they all scale to the same figure either way.

It seems to me like it is referring to the Dragon Force transformation and the unique ability to use it, rather than Sting and Rogue's power levels in comparison to Natsu's.

It really doesn’t matter.

2. After thinking it over, I really think that the assumption that X791 Gajeel's ISDM became weaker in X791 after its initial usage is frankly backed by no evidence and/or statements in-universe.

ISDM did become weaker. Initial use let Gajeel stomp Possessed Rogue who stomped base Gajeel.

Base Gajeel was equal to/stronger than Torafuzar yet ISDM didn’t let him one shot Etherious Form Torafuzar, just had him shook af.

Note that EF are not nearly as great an amp as shit like Dual Element Modes.

• Jackal’s took him from being relative to but weaker than Natsu to equal to Natsu.
• Seilah’s took her from stomping Sitri Mira to still stomping Mira using weaker forms of Satan Soul yet still being able to take a bunch of attacks without being KTFO.
• Ezel’s took him from being comparable to DF Wendy to still being comparable to DF Wendy and only losing because Wendy kept applying more wind than he could keep up with.
• Torafuzar’s base = base Gajeel yet base Gajeel could still take hits from EF Torafuzar and base Natsu only got KO’d because he swallowed some of the poison water.

Even comparing it to Natsu's LFDM and how it changed after its initial usage, the only time that we saw X784 LFDM Natsu after the initial use it was for one moment to scare Max after Max defeated his base, and nothing in that scene proved it to be weaker than its initial usage.

Except for the fact Natsu said it was weaker? You would have to prove that it was just as strong as its initial use despite Natsu saying otherwise. LFDM Hades Franmalth got slammed by base Natsu with a big rock and Hades Franmalth was already able to harm Natsu and take hits from him just fine.

In X791, LFDM Natsu wasn't the same post-Second Origin compared to before likely because Natsu had gotten a power boost, something which X791 Gajeel did not have throughout the X791 saga.

Gajeel trained and was shown to be equal to Natsu throughout the X791 arcs despite being equal or weaker than Natsu on Tenrou. It’s clear that Gajeel got stronger.

If anything, the opposite is implied by Natsu and Gajeel's dialogue in chapter 395, where Natsu boasts about the power of X784 Laxus in his LFDM being above the power of Rogue's shadow power that is in X791 ISDM.

You are aware that Natsu just found out Gajeel could do this, yes? Aka he hasn’t seen it’s initial usage, aka he hasn’t seen Possessed Rogue’s strength aka his statement isn’t applicable at all.

Thus, I do not think X791 ISDM Gajeel got any weaker after his Rogue fight due to nothing whatsoever even implying this in story.

See above.

 

[Eseseso]

Base Gajeel was equal to/stronger than Torafuzar yet ISDM didn’t let him one shot Etherious Form Torafuzar, just had him shook af.

So?

Base Gajeel matched Base Torafuzar so when they both powered up they were still equal.

Note that EF are not nearly as great an amp as shit like Dual Element Modes.

Not sure that's provable.

• Jackal’s took him from being relative to but weaker than Natsu to equal to Natsu.

Jackal could only hurt Natsu (and he didn't even hurt Natsu that much) with explosions, and Jackal currently only scales above 7.8 megatons.

• Seilah’s took her from stomping Sitri Mira to still stomping Mira using weaker forms of Satan Soul yet still being able to take a bunch of attacks without being KTFO.

Base Seilah matched Satan Soul Mira, she only stomped Sitri once she went Etherious

• Ezel’s took him from being comparable to DF Wendy to still being comparable to DF Wendy and only losing because Wendy kept applying more wind than he could keep up with.

Base Ezel got smacked around by DF Wendy

• Torafuzar’s base = base Gajeel yet base Gajeel could still take hits from EF Torafuzar and base Natsu only got KO’d because he swallowed some of the poison water.

Base Natsu never fought Torafuzar so he's irrelevant, and Base Natsu and Gajeel have always taken hits from those stronger than them without getting one-shot due to their absurd stamina.

Except for the fact Natsu said it was weaker?

Scans?

You would have to prove that it was just as strong as its initial use despite Natsu saying otherwise.

You need to prove that Natsu said it was weaker and that it ISN'T as strong as its initial use.

LFDM Hades Franmalth got slammed by base Natsu with a big rock and Hades Franmalth was already able to harm Natsu and take hits from him just fine.

What does Franmalth have to do with this? Dude is a weakling.

You are aware that Natsu just found out Gajeel could do this, yes? Aka he hasn’t seen it’s initial usage, aka he hasn’t seen Possessed Rogue’s strength aka his statement isn’t applicable at all.

Ok that's fair, although he still talked about the power of Laxus' thunder so it still some what comes off as him implying that his form's boost is comparable to X784 Laxus.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

So?

Base Gajeel matched Base Torafuzar so when they both powered up they were still equal.

You are missing the fact that base Gajeel and base Natsu both take hits from EF Torafuzar. ISDM being equal to EF means it isn’t even close to the amp Initial ISDM was.

Not sure that's provable.

I literally just proved it.

Jackal could only hurt Natsu (and he didn't even hurt Natsu that much) with explosions, and Jackal currently only scales above 7.8 megatons.

You understand you just said “Jackal could only hurt Natsu with his standard attacks”?

Base Seilah matched Satan Soul Mira, she only stomped Sitri once she went Etherious

Great. You also know that after EF Seilah stomped Sitri so hard that Mira reverted to her base, Sitri spent the chapter wailing on base Mira whilst commanding herself to rip Mira limb from limb yet she couldn’t. Then there is also the fact that Lisanna was there which means Mira was nerfing herself for the whole fight. EF isn’t even enough to KO someone’s held back base that is weaker than Seilah’s own base.

Base Ezel got smacked around by DF Wendy

Base Ezel got hit by DF Wendy and had no problems fighting or getting back up, just with her enormous speed advantage. Wendy barely put scuff marks on him and got her Secret Art cut through instantly by base Ezel.

Base Natsu never fought Torafuzar so he's irrelevant,

Torafuzar used Tenchi Kaimei, was blitzing everyone, straight up dodged and punched Natsu, causing him to swallow the poison water. Don’t call things irrelevant when you don’t know better.

and Base Natsu and Gajeel have always taken hits from those stronger than them without getting one-shot due to their absurd stamina.

People stronger than base Gajeel that he fights are Laxus (who ***** him up) and FR (who ***** him up). EF Torafuzar was never even hinted by Gajeel to be notably stronger than base Gajeel at any point in their fight, just much faster due to the water from Tenchi Kaimei. Hell, Gajeel took more damage from a few attacks from Jet and Droy than he did from Torafuzar. And please don’t say Gajeel let them hit him because Gajeel literally couldn’t respond to EF Torafuzar’s blitz without ISDM’s shadow speed amp.

Scans?

Bruh, it’s the one from the profile that you linked in the OP where Natsu is fighting Max. You can’t seriously be asking me for a scan you yourself linked.

You need to prove that Natsu said it was weaker and that it ISN'T as strong as its initial use.

Dude … Natsu said it … in your scan … in your OP. I don’t need to do shit here lol.

What does Franmalth have to do with this? Dude is a weakling.

A dude who harmed Tartaros Natsu, scales to Hades (which is the same thing Tartaros Natsu scales to) and uses X791 LFDM (which you are arguing scales to Tenrou Laxus) has nothing to do with this? How’d you arrive at that conclusion? Address my point instead of trying to pretend it doesn’t matter.

Ok that's fair, although he still talked about the power of Laxus' thunder so it still some what comes off as him implying that his form's boost is comparable to X784 Laxus.

Natsu references Laxus half the times he uses LFDM in Tartaros. That doesn’t mean LFDM scales to Laxus, especially when the very same key that used Initial LFDM states it wasn’t as strong as the Initial use.

 

[Eseseso]

You are missing the fact that base Gajeel and base Natsu both take hits from EF Torafuzar. ISDM being equal to EF means it isn’t even close to the amp Initial ISDM was.

See below/

I literally just proved it.

You understand you just said “Jackal could only hurt Natsu with his standard attacks”?

He barely scratched Natsu, just knocked him around a bit and left a few scrapes.

Great. You also know that after EF Seilah stomped Sitri so hard that Mira reverted to her base, Sitri spent the chapter wailing on base Mira whilst commanding herself to rip Mira limb from limb yet she couldn’t.

Stamina.

Then there is also the fact that Lisanna was there which means Mira was nerfing herself for the whole fight. EF isn’t even enough to KO someone’s held back base that is weaker than Seilah’s own base.

Why would Mira be nerfing herself because of Lisanna?

Torafuzar used Tenchi Kaimei, was blitzing everyone, straight up dodged and punched Natsu, causing him to swallow the poison water. Don’t call things irrelevant when you don’t know better.

People stronger than base Gajeel that he fights are Laxus (who ***** him up) and FR (who ***** him up). EF Torafuzar was never even hinted by Gajeel to be notably stronger than base Gajeel at any point in their fight, just much faster due to the water from Tenchi Kaimei. Hell, Gajeel took more damage from a few attacks from Jet and Droy than he did from Torafuzar. And please don’t say Gajeel let them hit him because Gajeel literally couldn’t respond to EF Torafuzar’s blitz without ISDM’s shadow speed amp.

If Base Torafuzar = Base Gajeel, and Etherious Form is a big boost, then it's safe to say that Etherious Form Torafuzar > Base Gajeel

Natsu also fights people above him by huge margins all the time yet doesn't get one-shot.

Bruh, it’s the one from the profile that you linked in the OP where Natsu is fighting Max. You can’t seriously be asking me for a scan you yourself linked.

Dude … Natsu said it … in your scan … in your OP. I don’t need to do shit here lol.

Just checked and he did say that, although considering Natsu collapsed literally right after, this could very well just have been due to exhaustion.

Also, X784 Tenrou Arc Laxus was like 10x stronger than X784 Natsu, but X791 Natsu is on par with X784 Laxus so he could probably handle that kind of energy better than he did against Max without getting exhausted.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Still agree with the op

 

[Eseseso]

Besides X791 Base Natsu is way above X784 Base Natsu so he could probably just handle LFDM Laxus's power better since it was only a 2x multiplier and not an 11x multiplier.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

See below/

None of what you posted counters what I said.

He barely scratched Natsu, just knocked him around a bit and left a few scrapes.

Yes because being KO’d is just scratches. Natsu went out of his way to find a way to negate the explosions for a reason. Natsu dropping a whole combo on Jellal’s face doesn’t even face Jellal and he is only x2 Natsu according to the profiles.

Stamina.

No. Stamina is Mira pushing through the pain to Take Over Seilah’s macro. Mira not being turned into a bloody paste on the ground from a bloodlusted EF Seilah is durability.

Why would Mira be nerfing herself because of Lisanna?

Did you miss the part in the Kamika fight where Mira tells us that she holds back whenever anyone she cares about is around? Alongside, and most likely above, Elfman, Lisanna is the person she cares the most about and thus would be when Mira holds back the most.

If Base Torafuzar = Base Gajeel, and Etherious Form is a big boost, then it's safe to say that Etherious Form Torafuzar > Base Gajeel

I’m not saying this at all. In fact, I went out of my way to say I think the bolded is wrong.

As for EF Torafuzar being stronger than base Gajeel, sure. I already said as much in my own post. What you fail to recognise is that EF Torafuzar isn’t stronger than base Gajeel any significant or noteworthy margin. Base Gajeel didn’t give a damn about whatever strength EF gave and only thought of two things that made EF Torafuzar a threat; his speed underwater and Gajeel’s own lack of air brought about by the water.

Natsu also fights people above him by huge margins all the time yet doesn't get one-shot.

Because they spend their time holding back or are not strong enough to one shot him? Jellal was trolling Natsu and when he got serious, kicked Natsu’s teeth in, Laxus isn’t even x3 Natsu but ****** both him and Gajeel up regardless, Ultear only uses half of her strength on Natsu (which is his own level), base Hades trolls the whole squad with them being so far below him that the moment he tried a serious attack, Horologium registered it as an instant kill, FR bodied LFDM with one attack, Mard did nothing but flex on base Natsu during the 3v1 and 2v1 until Gray posted up.

That’s every fight or opponent involving Natsu and someone stronger than him. Most are incapable of oneshotting him and those who can either do so or aren’t trying to in the first place.

Just checked and he did say that, although considering Natsu collapsed literally right after, this could very well just have been due to exhaustion.

Because Natsu doesn’t have Laxus’ magic to supply all the power needed for the form beyond a single attack. If he doesn’t have Laxus magic, it doesn’t scale to Laxus. Once Natsu unlocks 2nd Origin, his base alone scales above Tenrou Laxus.

This means Gajeel’s ISDM doesn’t scale to his initial use as he is hilariously below Possessed Rogue, something backed up by ISDM = LFDM, which you can’t prove would basically double Natsu’s AP.

Also, X784 Tenrou Arc Laxus was like 10x stronger than X784 Natsu, but X791 Natsu is on par with X784 Laxus so he could probably handle that kind of energy better than he did against Max without getting exhausted.

SO Natsu easily has comparable or more magic than Tenrou Laxus but that still doesn’t mean activating LFDM means he stacks Tenrou Laxus’ AP onto his base. This is stuff you need statements for.