Monkey D. Luffy vs Donquixote Doflamingo (8-4-0)

[Eminiteable]

"By the way, in Dressrosa Doflamingo being called "Joker" is a remnant of an initial idea where Doflamingo was going to fight as a powerful companion of Kaido in the Wano Country. He's quite the tricky opponent, so I'm glad we got rid of him at Dressrosa!!" - SBS Volume 98

Onigashima Luffy is being used, he's restricted to base only so no gears whatsoever.
Starting Distance: 100 meters
Starting Location: Onigashima

Monkey D. Luffy: 8 (KingTempest, joshpiece, StrawHatArslan, MonkeyOfLife, FluffyCreatureZ, RazumaHiroki, Shizuka, TauanVictor)
Donquixote Doflamingo: 4 (CinCameron20, RoronoaXRobin, KlinkyGrape, Ryuga21)
Incon: 0

 

[KingTempest]

This is funny as shit. 14-1, only intellectuals will understand.

Luffy has future sight and he's already fought against Parasito so he knows what he's up against.
He's gotten much more potent Busoshoku from his time in Udon Prison, likely above Doffy's.
He's more durable than Doffy's entire arsenal.
Physically comparable and can neg his dura.

I already vote the caped crusader.

 

[joshpiece]

Luffy FRA train?

 

[KobsterHope07]

I will say that Doffy’s one and only greatest strength against Luffy is his LS with his threads. It would be possible for him to bind Luffy if he could get the chance of doing so.

 

[KingTempest]

Too bad that Luffy sees them all coming

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Luffy fra

 

[KobsterHope07]

This is funny as shit. 14-1, only intellectuals will understand.

It is 15-1 now, get your fact straight

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Out of topic, but this Luffy picture looks amazing!

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Monkey FRA

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

luffy for the win.

 

[Eminiteable]

Counted, already five votes for Luffy kinda hoping someone brings up an argument for Doffy.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Counted, already five votes for Luffy kinda hoping someone brings up an argument for Doffy.

flamingo has an AP advantage with ito ito and awakening, and is very resilient and has high stamina, so he could probably harm luffy and fight him for a while, but luffy just has better stamina is even more resilient and his haki is far better as well as durability negation.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Monke! FRA

 

[DarlingAurora]

Luffy FRA.

 

[Eminiteable]

That's grace

 

[KingTempest]

16-1

 

[joshpiece]

Gg

 

[CinCameron20]

Tbh, I'd personally appreciate it if these threads were given some time to actually develop a proper discussion, because i just figured out this thread exists, already 7-0, and there's only one/two arguments and the rest are "FRA".

Also, why are people saying Luffy's FS is Katakuri tier? He learned FS but it was never shown to be at that level. Katakuri merely said he was gradually closing the gap. We only have feats of Luffy seeing attacks in the very next moment (i.e. Apoo and Kaido), and he has not had any big lead-up iirc.

Now let's look at the stats:

AP goes to Doflamingo, as Base Luffy is only 1GT while Doflamingo is around 3.98GT

Dura is equal for both, as they are sitting around base-line, but Luffy can't use his Armament/Rubber harmonization outside of Bound/Tankman. Doflamingo would technically have the advantage via self-healing.

Speed goes to Doflamingo, as he was able to actually move fast enough to evade and defend against Bound-Man Luffy's attacks, and Base Luffy even now is still slower via scaling (just scaling as being "faster than before", and his Gear 2nd wasn't even enough to get an edge over the wounded Doflamingo back then).

Haki,

• Observation obviously goes to Luffy--but do keep in mind Doflamingo isn't in his rage-induced state as noted in chapter 759 where he's under a lot of stress from losing Punk Hazard, Caesar, Vergo, Monet, and Dressrosa in a matter of a couple days, so his Kenbun would operate normally here.
• Armament goes either way, Luffy has the potency, but Doflamingo can imbue his threads and feather jacket with Haki while Luffy has no imbuing technique iirc.
• Haoshoku goes to Luffy since he's able to use Emission Haki and its way stronger than normal Buso attacks (also some dura-negation).

Range goes to Luffy, technically.

This version of Luffy also doesn't have flight, which Doflamingo does.

This version of Luffy also would not be able to break free from thread manipulation due to being far weaker and lower LS.

Overall, I just don't see Luffy taking the W against Doflamingo. Even if we said he has the same level of FS as Katakuri (he doesn't btw), he's restricted to his base form, which is heavily disadvantaged here, especially against Doflamingo's Awakening. Remember how helpless Luffy was against Everwhite? Same case here.

Luffy's only true advantage is that his Haki is outright superior to Doflamingo's. Doesn't mean he stomps or low-diffs in that category.

Doflamingo beats Base Luffy.

• Funny part is, if you gave Luffy Gear 2nd + 3rd, he'd definitely win since AP and speed increase would help him a great deal, only this time he wont burn himself out like he did with G4 in Dressrosa.

 

[RoronoaxRobin]

I vote for Doflamingo for 3 reasons.

1. Due to Cin's explanations above.

2. Luffy ultimately needed to become an Enhanced Bound Man and use King Kong Gun just to defeat a weakened Doflamingo back in Dressrosa, but Doffy's gonna be at peak condition this time. I don't see Base Luffy being able to win when Doffy has the AP advantage and he can't power-up in this fight. And Base Luffy having dura negating haki also isn't enough to give him an automatic win here, because his haki attacks won't be as strong as they would be when he uses his Gears.

3. The fact that Oda himself implied Doflamingo still would've been a serious threat had he been involved in Wano is another reason I don't believe he would lose to Base Luffy.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

The arguments above are bad… Or I don’t agree with. Probably reply later… (that means some hours… I think… or king Tempest will… I can already see him)

 

[KingTempest]

Luffy's observation is definitely Katakuri tier, noted by how Kata said "he can see the same future as me". It only seems like otherwise because Katakuri's fighting style is based on it. It's like saying Smoker is more proficient with Busoshoku than Zoro because we see him use it on his limbs more than Zoro.

He smacked a sniper trying to shoot him from a far range before the sniper could pull the trigger. Him in Udon prison has better feats than anything Kata has pulled off. We're forgetting he told Hyogoro an entire sequence of movements to do so he won't get hit before the attacks even started?

AP goes to Doffy but it falters in the face of dura neg.

Dura is not equal for both.
Luffy now > G4th Luffy Post WCI > G4th Luffy Dressrosa > Doflamingo's possibly rating

Literally the initial showing of G4th is him blitzing Doflamingo. Doffy doesn't scale to Bounceman at all in speed. But yes, Doflamingo most likely has the advantage of speed.
And technically wouldn't this Luffy be faster than Dressrosa Bounceman? He managed to partially dodge an attack from Kaido (his future sight did not help at all) while he got dimed in his face with Post WCI Bounceman? Heck, I could really argue he's faster.

Haki

• Luffy slaps. Has better feats with or without Future Sight.
• Luffy slaps. Advanced ≠ More potent, which is why Vergo can't internally combust anyone even though he has some of the most potent Buso in the series. Luffy has trained his potency. We have no proof if Doffy has.
• Luffy slaps. He matched him in Dressrosa. This is 2 keys later.

Yeah technically range goes to Luffy.

It's out of character for Doflamingo to use flight in a fight with someone on the ground. Look at him vs Luffy in Dressrosa. Even him and Law. He's not flying unless Luffy's flying, which he's not doing.

This version of Luffy dodges the threads with ease.

Bro a weakened and tired Luffy who already used G4th and was injured from fighting all day already tanked the majority of everwhite, this is nothing new.

Luffy's haki takes him a long way.

 

[KlinkyGrape]

Doflamingo fra

 

[TauanVictor]

Luffy FRA

How the hell are there people who think Doffy's Busoshoku Haki is better?

 

[Ryuga21]

Luffy has full experience with Doflamingo's fighting style while Doffy himself wouldn't know about Luffy's current Haki level. He would be surprised and overwhelmed in close range combat, an advanced CoO user doesn't even allow his opponent to lift off the ground (As much as Doffy can easily get out of someone's domain, creating a clone, or simply flying).

On the other hand, Luffy wouldn't be able to finish Doflamingo quickly, even attacking internally, as Doffy managed to heal from a Ganma Knife (which is superior to Ryou) and could still keep fighting intensely. Not to mention that Doflamingo also knows Luffy's limitations, especially his base form, and how he has difficulty with his awakening. I don't see Luffy handling this well without Gear Second at the very least. Doflamingo is simply too versatile for a limited melee fighter like Luffy.

As this would be a prolonged fight, Doflamingo would have the opportunity to use his various techniques, including flying and Parasite (Two things Luffy doesn't have an answer for, even seeing the future). I would say that Doffy's Parasite could be countered by a good CoO user, as the anime implies, but I don't know if that argument would be valid.

I vote for Doflamingo.

 

[CinCameron20]

Luffy's observation is definitely Katakuri tier, noted by how Kata said "he can see the same future as me". It only seems like otherwise because Katakuri's fighting style is based on it. It's like saying Smoker is more proficient with Busoshoku than Zoro because we see him use it on his limbs more than Zoro.

He smacked a sniper trying to shoot him from a far range before the sniper could pull the trigger. Him in Udon prison has better feats than anything Kata has pulled off. We're forgetting he told Hyogoro an entire sequence of movements to do so he won't get hit before the attacks even started?

AP goes to Doffy but it falters in the face of dura neg.

Dura is not equal for both.
Luffy now > G4th Luffy Post WCI > G4th Luffy Dressrosa > Doflamingo's possibly rating

Literally the initial showing of G4th is him blitzing Doflamingo. Doffy doesn't scale to Bounceman at all in speed. But yes, Doflamingo most likely has the advantage of speed.
And technically wouldn't this Luffy be faster than Dressrosa Bounceman? He managed to partially dodge an attack from Kaido (his future sight did not help at all) while he got dimed in his face with Post WCI Bounceman? Heck, I could really argue he's faster.

Haki

• Luffy slaps. Has better feats with or without Future Sight.
• Luffy slaps. Advanced ≠ More potent, which is why Vergo can't internally combust anyone even though he has some of the most potent Buso in the series. Luffy has trained his potency. We have no proof if Doffy has.
• Luffy slaps. He matched him in Dressrosa. This is 2 keys later.

Yeah technically range goes to Luffy.

It's out of character for Doflamingo to use flight in a fight with someone on the ground. Look at him vs Luffy in Dressrosa. Even him and Law. He's not flying unless Luffy's flying, which he's not doing.

This version of Luffy dodges the threads with ease.

Bro a weakened and tired Luffy who already used G4th and was injured from fighting all day already tanked the majority of everwhite, this is nothing new.

Luffy's haki takes him a long way.

I'd honestly wait to see Luffy performing Katakuri feats before saying he's the same level as him. We've only seen him consistently reacting to events happening in the very next moment. He can see the future perpetually, just not several seconds. Even with Kaido's Thunder Bagua, he barely had time to react despite supposedly "having Katakuri tier FS".

Even in Udon, he was calling out attacks just a moment before they came. Katakuri's initial display for FS was him calling out a couple sentences, and witnessing 2 deaths moments after.

Doflamingo only got blitzed once by G4 Luffy. He blocked the Kong Gun, he still blocked Rhino Schneider with Haki despite losing sight of Luffy, he straight up dodged and counter-attacked when Culverin came, but he still got hit since Python is a homing attack. He then proceeded to fight Luffy for 20+ minutes after this, so I am totally against saying Luffy was blitzing. Doflamingo wasn't equal to Gear 4th in speed, but he was able to keep up for most instances.

• I agree for Kenbun Haki, but do keep in mind Doflamingo isn't exactly trash with the ability. He was still able to see everything going on out-side of his vision, and blocked all of Law's ambushes (minus Gamma Knife, go figure), and could block against Gear 4th Luffy who was in his blind-spot. He's at least got good sensory powers.
• Doflamingo's Buso should not be underestimated. It is potent enough to ward off Law's ROOM attacks, which only the Yonko so far have better feats against via passive Haki alone. Base Luffy's Haki at the time was no match for Doflamingo's (ignoring Flap-thread, as it's quite unfair for both--but Doffy still won that case) and he was overpowered almost every single time he tried to block Doffy's Haki attacks.
• He matched Doflamingo who just got organs bombed 5 seconds prior. Even if it's 2 keys later, it's not entirely confirmed that his Haoshoku got "more potent", just that he finally learned how to use it properly--and in a way we never see Doflamingo use it, so he'd wreck whether his Haki is weaker, equal, or superior.

Doflamingo was flying in chapter 783 despite Luffy being restricted to the ground. But I'd also like to point out that Doflamingo never flew in Marineford (he was for a moment during the Shichibukai double-spread), and I think this was because he wanted to keep his ability as mysterious as possible. It is in-character for him to use flight.

• Edit: Also, he used it against Law towards the end of their final fight. He was disadvantaged since he received a blow and was also surrounded by debris that Law could use TK on, so he took to the skies to avoid being disadvantaged further.

Luffy can't dodge with ease if he's inferior in speed, especially if Everwhite comes into play, making the entire ground dangerous.

You bring up a weakened Luffy, but do keep in mind this was the case for Doflamingo as well. They both commented how the other was barely able to stand. Their Haki and power behind their attacks were definitely limited. Saying Luffy is ~ but slightly < Doffy's Haki based on that one instance is unfair when Doflamingo was clapping Luffy pre and post-gamma knife in the Haki department.

Luffy's Haki DOES take him a long way, but I'd like to say he doesn't have anything outside of Durability that can match Doflamingo outside of having blatantly superior Observation and Haoshoku.

• Also, Doflamingo can still hurt Luffy since the latter isn't using his Gear 4th Haki + Rubber melding, so Doflamingo's blunt attacks wont just bounce off. It's just ~/>3.98GT vs >4.3GT. Not big of a gap by any means.

Edit: I would genuinely like to know what Luffy would do against Awakening without any of his gears. He can dodge, but once the ENTIRE ARENA is turned into string, it's going to be a repeat of chapter 790, only this time he wont have G4 (or any of the others) to break free from Doflamingo's threads.

• Yes, I know Luffy's got higher Dura than Doffy's AP, but the gap is quite small. Doffy is >3.98gt with Awakening, but that doesn't account for Haki + Awakening which he didn't (on-panel) until after Leo Bazooka. Even if he didn't have that amp, he's still strong enough to dish out damage to someone with >4.3gt durability.

 

[Eminiteable]

Seems grace has been reached for a while now, I'll add this to the profiles.

 

[CinCameron20]

RIP Doffy (tho tbf, Luffy obviously wins with Gears active even if I argue Base loses, so I can't complain too much)

 

[Ebitan34]

I'd honestly wait to see Luffy performing Katakuri feats before saying he's the same level as him. We've only seen him consistently reacting to events happening in the very next moment. He can see the future perpetually, just not several seconds. Even with Kaido's Thunder Bagua, he barely had time to react despite supposedly "having Katakuri tier FS".

Even in Udon, he was calling out attacks just a moment before they came. Katakuri's initial display for FS was him calling out a couple sentences, and witnessing 2 deaths moments after.

Doflamingo only got blitzed once by G4 Luffy. He blocked the Kong Gun, he still blocked Rhino Schneider with Haki despite losing sight of Luffy, he straight up dodged and counter-attacked when Culverin came, but he still got hit since Python is a homing attack. He then proceeded to fight Luffy for 20+ minutes after this, so I am totally against saying Luffy was blitzing. Doflamingo wasn't equal to Gear 4th in speed, but he was able to keep up for most instances.

• I agree for Kenbun Haki, but do keep in mind Doflamingo isn't exactly trash with the ability. He was still able to see everything going on out-side of his vision, and blocked all of Law's ambushes (minus Gamma Knife, go figure), and could block against Gear 4th Luffy who was in his blind-spot. He's at least got good sensory powers.
• Doflamingo's Buso should not be underestimated. It is potent enough to ward off Law's ROOM attacks, which only the Yonko so far have better feats against via passive Haki alone. Base Luffy's Haki at the time was no match for Doflamingo's (ignoring Flap-thread, as it's quite unfair for both--but Doffy still won that case) and he was overpowered almost every single time he tried to block Doffy's Haki attacks.
• He matched Doflamingo who just got organs bombed 5 seconds prior. Even if it's 2 keys later, it's not entirely confirmed that his Haoshoku got "more potent", just that he finally learned how to use it properly--and in a way we never see Doflamingo use it, so he'd wreck whether his Haki is weaker, equal, or superior.

Doflamingo was flying in chapter 783 despite Luffy being restricted to the ground. But I'd also like to point out that Doflamingo never flew in Marineford (he was for a moment during the Shichibukai double-spread), and I think this was because he wanted to keep his ability as mysterious as possible. It is in-character for him to use flight.

• Edit: Also, he used it against Law towards the end of their final fight. He was disadvantaged since he received a blow and was also surrounded by debris that Law could use TK on, so he took to the skies to avoid being disadvantaged further.

Luffy can't dodge with ease if he's inferior in speed, especially if Everwhite comes into play, making the entire ground dangerous.

You bring up a weakened Luffy, but do keep in mind this was the case for Doflamingo as well. They both commented how the other was barely able to stand. Their Haki and power behind their attacks were definitely limited. Saying Luffy is ~ but slightly < Doffy's Haki based on that one instance is unfair when Doflamingo was clapping Luffy pre and post-gamma knife in the Haki department.

Luffy's Haki DOES take him a long way, but I'd like to say he doesn't have anything outside of Durability that can match Doflamingo outside of having blatantly superior Observation and Haoshoku.

• Also, Doflamingo can still hurt Luffy since the latter isn't using his Gear 4th Haki + Rubber melding, so Doflamingo's blunt attacks wont just bounce off. It's just ~/>3.98GT vs >4.3GT. Not big of a gap by any means.

Edit: I would genuinely like to know what Luffy would do against Awakening without any of his gears. He can dodge, but once the ENTIRE ARENA is turned into string, it's going to be a repeat of chapter 790, only this time he wont have G4 (or any of the others) to break free from Doflamingo's threads.

• Yes, I know Luffy's got higher Dura than Doffy's AP, but the gap is quite small. Doffy is >3.98gt with Awakening, but that doesn't account for Haki + Awakening which he didn't (on-panel) until after Leo Bazooka. Even if he didn't have that amp, he's still strong enough to dish out damage to someone with >4.3gt durability.

Not doubting your arguments. But wouldn't these showings of Base Luffy fighting against Hybrid Kaido be sufficient enough to show that Base Luffy curbstomps Doffy?

 

[WrongIdea21]

Luffy Onigashima is broken than G4 even its just His base witj Future Sight and Ryou+Haoshoku. I'm going to Vote Luffy

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

luffy already won

 

[KingTempest]

Closing