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DMC speed Upgrades

Neutral at the moment. Although I think it's good that there are explicit and official statements of how much the multiplier increase is, be it x2, x3, etc.
 
Considering other verses have gotten similar treatment for their speed multipliers, I don't have an issue.

If this is somehow problematic, I think we should go to look at those verses first.
 
If we already accept the multipliers than I don't see the problem. I agree with this unless someone brings up a valid argument against it.
 
Only problem I have is scaling multipliers that are specifically said to amp travel and flight speed to combat speed.
 
Glad to see you guys using this, guess I gotta comment here aswell

Purgy said:
Only problem I have is scaling multipliers that are specifically said to amp travel and flight speed to combat speed.
Click to expand...
Literally none of the statements are about Travel or Flight speed, they both (literally, again) say "running speed", in DMC, the Devil Trigger amps every aspect of your speed, and they never had any problems with fighting while in movement, look at Dante Vs Vergil clash in DMC5 as an example, they react to their own movement

Also just to make sure, my blog is only about two Devil Triggers: DMC1 Dante and DMC2 Dante, which means it's not to be scaled to every DT in the franchise, we already agreed that DT is something that depends on the user's powers, which means DMC1 Dante DT (The one with 2X multiplier) isn't an ordinary one that can be scaled to Lucia, DMC4 Nero, and other DT users (None of them are High 3-A), same goes for DMC2 since it only reaches 10 times with a specific Heart.

In that case, we gotta take a look at two other characters that can be affected: Lucia and Vergil

* Lucia also has the Quick Heart, and her base speed is Massively Hypersonic+ (Mach 1294 to be more precise), she should scale

* Vergil doesn't have it, but it's clear that his DT is comparable to Dante's DT in speed and he always matched him in power, so Nelo Angelo should scale to the 2X amp

For DMC5, the blog stopped with the multipliers, so just a "Higher with DT" for Vergil and Nero should work

That's all bois, good luck
 
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Literally none of the statements are about Travel or Flight speed, they both (literally, again) say "running speed", in DMC, the Devil Trigger amps every aspect of your speed, and they never had any problems with fighting while in movement, look at Dante Vs Vergil clash in DMC5 as an example, they react to their own movement
Click to expand...
And what is running speed? Travel speed...

You say DT amps every aspect of their speed and yet on neither Dante nor Vergil's profile does it indicate that they get faster combat speed with it active.

I haven't seen any evidence to say it would apply to combat speed when the statements for the multipliers only mention travel speed.
 
The answer is on a link in the blog

vsbattles.fandom.com

Reactions and Perceptions

In fiction, movement over long distances and movement over short distances - which can be dubbed "combat distances" - tend to be remarkably different for different characters, resulting in serious discrepancies when considering their overall speed. On this wiki, we therefore differentiate...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Reactions/Combat speed and Movement speed can be scaled if the characters can react to one with the other, this not only is accepted, but a standard on our wiki, and like I said there are numerous ocasions of Dante reacting to Vergil's movement speed (DT or Base) and vice versa

You say DT amps every aspect of their speed and yet on neither Dante nor Vergil's profile does it indicate that they get faster combat speed with it active
Click to expand...

As per Dante's page:

All Devil Trigger forms give Dante increased attack, defense, speed, healing, and passive Fear Manipulation.
Click to expand...

It is clearly stated that DT amps his speed in general, take a look at every profile on the wiki, if the speed section never mentions "Combat speed, Reaction speed, movement speed" or other related speeds, that means it's the same for every field

And what is running speed? Travel speed...
Click to expand...

Travel is for Long Distances, while Running can be used for that, you gotta take the game into context, the statements are about DT's effect on speed while on the game's context, set and plot, where Dante isn't travelling across the Country or Planet or something, it's his Movement speed
 
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Sevil Natas said:
this not the case at all. you could still run while being in combat, it has nothing to do with combat speed and travel speed
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Running Speed is something that would fall under Travel Speed which is simply how fast one can move from one spot to another... fighting while running just supports their combat speed is on the level of their travel speed.
 
I’m the new DMC Nerd on the block, so I’ll put in my two cents based on the blog and the feats in Devil May Cry.

DMC3 already has an accepted value, doubling it isn’t an issue because of the scaling, as the only people he’d use Devil Trigger against are as fast as himself-Sparda powered Arkham and Vergil, who himself uses Devil Trigger in the final fight, but as I understand the blog doesn’t apply the multiplier on DMC3’s DT because DT’s active value and properties change between games, so using it as a mark for DMC1 and DMC2 is okay because those are consistent, but 3, (possibly 4) and definitely 5 all have what seem to be varying understandings of how powerful Devil Trigger is. So leaving it untouched as a whole makes sense, and I definitely agree with this. Devil Trigger’s whole tree is majorly inconsistent anyway.

DMC1 IS affected, and his base being at least DMC3 speed+ makes complete sense within scaling. The Devil Trigger form and the Sparda Devil Trigger being the multipliers they are barely raised Dante’s speed in comparison to a verse as multiplier packed as Dragon Ball, but are consistent with the DMC1 Mundus Boss Fight speed feat of moving so fast the stars become blips, and the fact that Mundus is a Demon Lord does imply a much faster speed, but my main confusion lies with how DMC1 Dante can be so fast and that was his only hope beating Mundus, but Dante was able to handle Arkham by himself, who had the powers of Sparda. It IS admitted that Sparda’s powers did not synchronize well with Arkham due to who he was, so it may be possible he wasn’t as nearly as powerful as the Original Sparda, which IS implied, but not to such a significant degree. However, this is less a scaling issue and more the plot not exactly specifying how much the lack of synergy actually affected Arkham. Mild agree.

DMC2 is faster, (despite the gameplay), so Dante being such makes sense. And this is where a lot of “Dante is the OP protagonist,” really started to come into play over the series, so having him move at such speeds against Argosax was basically the game showing off that yes, Dante is able to blitz him by a ridiculous margin and treat him like a joke. Since Argosax was a foe even Mundus cannot beat, having him be faster than Mundus makes sense, and so it does for Dante. However, while the accepted multiplier makes sense, I don’t think any feat in the game supports such. Then again, there’s no one in the game Dante actively needs to try hard like this for, and by the time he probably would (like DMC5), his base has gotten so strong he could solo the entire DMC4 game for ***** and giggles, so perhaps that was the point? Either way, I understand and reason with it, and even agree, but less than I do for DMC1.

4-5 are on the basis of whatever the previous are, which again, makes sense because we have no understanding of how the multipliers in that game behave. I agree with this move, and if the chain is correct, then with the scaling.
 
RedReaper said:
I’m the new DMC Nerd on the block, so I’ll put in my two cents based on the blog and the feats in Devil May Cry.

DMC3 already has an accepted value, doubling it isn’t an issue because of the scaling, as the only people he’d use Devil Trigger against are as fast as himself-Sparda powered Arkham and Vergil, who himself uses Devil Trigger in the final fight, but as I understand the blog doesn’t apply the multiplier on DMC3’s DT because DT’s active value and properties change between games, so using it as a mark for DMC1 and DMC2 is okay because those are consistent, but 3, (possibly 4) and definitely 5 all have what seem to be varying understandings of how powerful Devil Trigger is. So leaving it untouched as a whole makes sense, and I definitely agree with this. Devil Trigger’s whole tree is majorly inconsistent anyway.

DMC1 IS affected, and his base being at least DMC3 speed+ makes complete sense within scaling. The Devil Trigger form and the Sparda Devil Trigger being the multipliers they are barely raised Dante’s speed in comparison to a verse as multiplier packed as Dragon Ball, but are consistent with the DMC1 Mundus Boss Fight speed feat of moving so fast the stars become blips, and the fact that Mundus is a Demon Lord does imply a much faster speed, but my main confusion lies with how DMC1 Dante can be so fast and that was his only hope beating Mundus, but Dante was able to handle Arkham by himself, who had the powers of Sparda. It IS admitted that Sparda’s powers did not synchronize well with Arkham due to who he was, so it may be possible he wasn’t as nearly as powerful as the Original Sparda, which IS implied, but not to such a significant degree. However, this is less a scaling issue and more the plot not exactly specifying how much the lack of synergy actually affected Arkham. Mild agree.

DMC2 is faster, (despite the gameplay), so Dante being such makes sense. And this is where a lot of “Dante is the OP protagonist,” really started to come into play over the series, so having him move at such speeds against Argosax was basically the game showing off that yes, Dante is able to blitz him by a ridiculous margin and treat him like a joke. Since Argosax was a foe even Mundus cannot beat, having him be faster than Mundus makes sense, and so it does for Dante. However, while the accepted multiplier makes sense, I don’t think any feat in the game supports such. Then again, there’s no one in the game Dante actively needs to try hard like this for, and by the time he probably would (like DMC5), his base has gotten so strong he could solo the entire DMC4 game for ***** and giggles, so perhaps that was the point? Either way, I understand and reason with it, and even agree, but less than I do for DMC1.

4-5 are on the basis of whatever the previous are, which again, makes sense because we have no understanding of how the multipliers in that game behave. I agree with this move, and if the chain is correct, then with the scaling.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the party o/
 
I read nothing about the post above but we lack any statement about the DT power boost besides the one 20 years ago in dmc1 (which is very likely to be outdated to hell)
 
Sevil Natas said:
why? AFAIK it wasnt retconned, it's the only statement about the precise DT boost
Click to expand...
Tony is talking about that there is no other statement in the series about DT multipliers other than this one, and considering that DMC1 guidebook is from more than 10 years ago, he is saying that the statement is likely outdated, although nothing contradics this statement tho, so i think there is np problems using for speed scaling.
 
I thought something happened with Multipliers? I think Bleach got a downgraded for their speed ratings because they used a 5× - 10x amp.

If the statement is outdated as I'm reading above then we shouldn't use it if what I'm reading is true. At the moment you can consider me neutral until a conclusion is reached.
 
LordGinSama said:
I thought something happened with Multipliers? I think Bleach got a downgraded for their speed ratings because they used a 5× - 10x amp.

If the statement is outdated as I'm reading above then we shouldn't use it if what I'm reading is true. At the moment you can consider me neutral until a conclusion is reached.
Click to expand...
If they did, someone should re-add those or work to undo the speed scaling for verses like Rakudai and Dragonball
 
Personally speaking I'd love to throw away Multipliers as a whole, more of an issue regarding wiki standards as a whole tbh.


I can give some input on Dragon-Ball since I'm familiar with the verse but Rakudai shouldn't be a benchmark if we're being honest. The volumes aren't officially translated to my knowledge so using that isn't really a fair comparison imo.
 
Personally speaking I'd love to throw away Multipliers as a whole, more of an issue regarding wiki standards as a whole tbh.
Click to expand...

Something we all agree honestly. It was fine with people saying "they can become x times faster" but now abusing it to get X times MFTL+ is out of hand
 
Tony_di_bugalu said:
Something we all agree honestly. It was fine with people saying "they can become x times faster" but now abusing it to get X times MFTL+ is out of hand
Click to expand...
I think it's even worse for AP ngl. For instance I know lots of verses that cap out at tier 7 and that's usually done with extreme effort, and then you slap a multiplier on said feat to inflate characters above several tiers than what they really should be. Honestly it just a really easy way to inflate characters at this point lol.
 
LordGinSama said:
I can give some input on Dragon-Ball since I'm familiar with the verse but Rakudai shouldn't be a benchmark if we're being honest. The volumes aren't officially translated to my knowledge so using that isn't really a fair comparison imo.
Click to expand...
Rakudai is MFTL+ via multipiers. Check Ikki's profile.

LordGinSama said:
I think it's even worse for AP ngl. For instance I know lots of verses that cap out at tier 7 and that's usually done with extreme effort, and then you slap a multiplier on said feat to inflate characters above several tiers than what they really should be. Honestly it just a really easy way to inflate characters at this point lol.
Click to expand...
This is Ikki.
 
We've already had multiple discussions regarding Dragon Ball's multipliers for Kaio-Ken and SSJ1 up until this point and we even have rules for it in the verse page. They're not going away. If the multipliers are blatantly stated in-verse or in other official media then they are perfectly legit to use. As for Rakudai that will need its own separate thread.

AFAIK the multipliers for Bleach were removed due to not being blatantly stated anywhere in the manga nor having any official statements.
 
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Anyway, Lightning's speed calc (And a bunch of his other DMC-related stuff I think) had all of its evaluations turn to dust as Lightning recently changed his name.
 
Yeah, but there are some blogs from the Lightning era at least, I guess I gotta ask for some evaluations...again >_>

Both Multipliers are clearly stated and not contradicted, I understand they are old, but that doesn't make them useless so long the series didn't contradicted what was stated, and DMC never did
 
Theglassman12 said:
If we allow multipliers to scale for the verse on the site then I'm ok with this, otherwise, I'm just neutral on the whole thing.
Click to expand...
We allow multipliers in general as long as they are officially stated and/or they are blatantly stated in the story itself.
 
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