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The Sun God Nika vs The Six Paths Sage (Luffy vs Naruto).
- Thread starter Maitreya12
- Start date
- Status
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KT said both.
Luffy can transmute TSOs into rubber and change their properties, and use a baseball bat to hit them away afterwards without making contact.
Testarossa002
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The innate property still remains the same. The lightning feat on his profile shows the lightning still exhibiting lightning properties (zap sound effects)
irrelevant as TSOs nulling properties still exist
Delusionaltx2
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hmmm...lets look at the accelerated development rq
yeah...he isn't gonna be able to tank for long...especially after luffy starts growing from clone spam(sorry for posting several times, Luffy has a lot of abilities and I just want to make sure I cover all of my bases)
Luffy's Accelerated Development should help significantly with the AP gap on Naruto's stronger attacks.
His first form of AD allows him to overpower attacks that had enough power to one-shot him minutes earlier
His second form of AD which comes from laughing is very similar, which lets him one-shot characters who could go blow for blow with him mere moments ago.
His third form of AD comes from Haki, which grows significantly stronger in battle to where when prompted, it can grow to allow the user to damage characters who could tank their blows.
These are stacked on each other which means eventually, and under a short timeframe, Luffy's normal attacks would grow to the level of Naruto's stronger jutsu like Bijuu Bombs.
This is from the buso haki section of the haki page btw
- Regeneration Negation (At least Mid, likely Mid-High; Haki users are capable of negating externally accelerated natural regeneration. like the regeneration granted by the Tori Tori no Mi: Model Phoenix)
No he really dosen't...they both start at equal values physically speaking and luffy is going to be growing at a noticably alarming rate...he does not have the durability to take repeated hits
even if he somehow did...haki has internal dura neg, yes naruto resists this but since haki also has resistance negation it would simply nullify this resistance and make naruto vulnerable
Delusionaltx2
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Same as space right? Which can be EE and chkara?
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Delusionaltx2
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Chakra and space are intangible, but still get themselves EE. We also saw TSO EE amatarasu which is also intangible. So any “intangible” energy is not passing through TSO
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This is a textbook false equivalence. None of these prove that TSOs can erase Ryou Haki. Especially after its EE properties are gone due to it turning into a standard rubber ball.
Delusionaltx2
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we have different classifications for intangibility/incorpreality. Saying a character can interact with one form of intangibility doesn't necessarily mean they can interact with another unless both are explicitly stated/shown to exist the same
you would essentially have to prove that chakra and/or space = haki, which...yeah no
Amatarasu is fire
fire is gas
haki is not gas...
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This won't work for Haki, as it's a type of spiritual energy, specifically Armament haki is made from ones fighting spirit (which is not related to Chakra), and then Luffy's Haki is layered, around 7-8 I believe
Haki does not contain one's soul or anything alike, both layered Spatial manipulation and Soul manipulation can't affect Haki
You need proof that it can erase layered spiritual energy to use the argument that "it can erase Haki"… Otherwise, stop trying to make those arguments
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Guys guys what about the power friendship?
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Am I really seeing OP fans arguing that Luffy is gonna turn chakra into rubber even though he has never shown the ability to turn souls/mind into rubber. While in the same breath deny claims that chkara contains will and yet cannot EE haki cuz it’s not “proven”
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Delusionaltx2
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This is pure nonsense you want Haki to affect chakra users but for some weird reason Chakra can't affect Haki users, wtf is this trash I have been seeing on here.. Existence Erasure is just that Existence Erasure and Luffy has absolutely no resistance to it it literally an Hax ability stop bringing up this Layered spiritual energy shit.. Like what even is that
Naruto has too many and I mean too many wincon against this dude and some resistance to most of his abilities even the Duraneg ones.. Naruto just need to seal Luffy and this fight is done.
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No offense but you're legit just making things up here. There's no such thing as "layered spiritual energy". You can't just slap the word "layered" on everything and hope it works.
Even if I assume you just mean layered soul hax that still doesn't apply here. Because having resistance to one type of soul hax doesn't make your soul immune to ANY non layered hax in existence.
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Luffy can change its properties.
I mean, One Piece has its fair share of soul hax. What type would be needed?
R81handman
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does the energy touch or interact with it? like even if the energy is flowing though it still erased.
Truth-Seeking Orbs can erase Ninjutsu, people space, matter, and chakra constructs like the Susano'o,[486] which is a physical manifestation of their soul,[487] reducing them to nothing.
Ryou haki has no innate resistance to EE. and Luffy can not rubberize TSO as they resist matter maniplation e.g Particle style which falls under Transmution
No Haki ability has shown resistance for transmutation.
- Resistance to
- Devil Fruit abilities (Buso Haki has been stated to be able to block devil fruit abilities,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Haki#cite_note-One_Piece_Blue_Deep:_Characters_World_Page_236-57"><span>[</span>57<span>]</span></a> seen when Doflamingo blocked Trafalgar Law's Amputate<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Haki#cite_note-One_Piece_Vol_77_Chapter_768-58"><span>[</span>58<span>]</span></a> and when Trafalgar Law stated that his Shambles ability would not work against those with superior Buso to him<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Haki#cite_note-One_Piece_Vol_100_Chapter_1009-59"><span>[</span>59<span>]</span></a>)
- Heat Manipulation (Sanji states that Buso assists him in withstanding heat<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Haki#cite_note-One_Piece_Vol_102_Chapter_1034-60"><span>[</span>60<span>]</span></a>)
- Resistance Negation (Users with superior Buso can resist the affects of Haki negating their resistances, shown with Gear 4th Luffy negating Doflamingo's negation of Luffy's resistance to physical attacks<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Haki#cite_note-One_Piece_Vol_78_Chapter_784-37"><span>[</span>37<span>]</span></a>)
- Elemental Intangibility Negation (Users with superior Buso resists the affects of Haki negating their elemental intangibility, shown with Shanks's buso negating Akainu's elemental intangibility while Marco and Vista's Buso couldn't<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Haki#cite_note-One_Piece_Vol_59_Chapter_574-61"><span>[</span>61<span>]</span></a><a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Haki#cite_note-One_Piece_Vol_59_Chapter_579-10"><span>[</span>10<span>]</span></a>)
I did not talk about nullifying. I talked about erasing. two different functions of TSO. Haki is still energy and it gets erased unless it has shown resistance against Existence Erasure. as for Haki layers, that only is for Power Nullification
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Assuming you're right, what would stop big Ruto from just, yk, changing them back instantly?
Spiritual existence erasure specifically. Just like with any soul hax
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I'm not... Haki as a weapon is layered it's literally accepted, Smokers spiritual energy does not work and gets overpowered by Luffy's spiritual energy.
No, I meant that layered soul manipulation can't effect Haki, meaning it's not and does not contain one's soul
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I disagree luffy can not affect any attack from Naruto in any shape or form, why? Because it is made out of Chakra and Luffy does not have Chakra (You guys' logic)
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And what does chakra have? OP never specified what else constitutes as spiritual energy other than will power doesn’t mean naruto fans have give up and go home. We have will power in chakra, our composition is superior than that of haki. We can effect it cause we have a compatible site to react with.
Layers mean nothing if you don’t even resist the base ability. TSO is not manipulating space or will power but EE it.
Same question back to you, do you have proof that luffy can effect the mind/soul and turn it into rubber? We have basis of effecting haki as will power is weaponized and projected in naruto while luffy hasn’t shown anything remotely similar to what constitutes chakra. Yet you all want to claim that luffy can affect chakra while nard can’t do anything about Haki when we have the evidence that he can while you lot don’t.
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With what?
So what Brook does? Luffy's Haki is potent enough to stop something like that.
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Cool, not how hax or layers work. Having layered resistance to 1 soul hax isn't saving you from a completely different kind of soul hax.
I mean, no? Soul manip not affecting it doesn't mean it can't contain a soul, it could just be resistance.
And it doesn't need to contain the soul itself. Getsuga tensho doesn't contain Ichigos soul. Rasengan doesn't contain Narutos soul. They contain spiritual energy.
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EE is an hax ability what don't you understand?? Luffy or anyone in One Piece literally has to have some form of resistance to EE before you can even bring up layers.…. Stop this nonsense
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Chakra control? I mentioned this before, Naruto retains control over his ninjutsu (especially TSO) even after their creation. Like shinobi specifically need to maintain control over the shape and form of their ninjutsu for it to not fall apart.
So if Narutos chakra gets transmuted into something else what stops him from just transmuting it back?
Can you elaborate? Because I'm not seeing spiritual existence erasure in his profile
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Not what I said, if they can interact to begin with and are equalized with chakra, Haki is layered meaning it would still be unaffected
Existence Erasure doesn't mean any and everything ceases to exist
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If you do that nard becomes immune to all haki via invul
You can’t be serious
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"Haki is layered" means quite literally nothing in this context. Haki can have 5 gorillion layers and still not help you whatsoever against EE
Good thing TSO having soul EE is not assumed but proven.
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So in this case, Naruto would be using Chakra control to effectively power null Luffy's transmutation? Why would he be able to do that when Kaidou's 8 layers of power null couldn't?
Brook was able to extinguish the souls of the Chess Peacekeepers.
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Pretty sure haki is the users will and to deal with other type of hax like transmution, spartial, EE, soul, heat, duraneg etc all they dominate those forces with their own will. Which is why haki resists mosts of those. Doesnt make em immune, just resist. Depending on the lvl of haki the greater the resistance. Luffy has already been shown to resist most of those things without any fail.
Another thing. Haki can also counter its targets resistence. Idk if thats the right word to use but ye.
Another thing. Haki can also counter its targets resistence. Idk if thats the right word to use but ye.
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Nice, show me feats or where it is on luffys profile that he resist EE
Doesn’t matter cuz by your guys logic haki =\= chakra so haki can’t negate chakra based resistance
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Haki being layered is irrelevant tf don't you understand, Haki can only work as a layer in respect to what it has resisted only then can you add layer 1, 2, 3 upwards on that.. No one in the one piece has resistance to EE, so how then do you get layers? THINK THINK, the Layered thing is the resistance to Hax that harms inferior Haki if not literally no hax on the wiki would work on the verse, I will ask you one more time, where is One Piece Resistance to EE?
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Even he can
İ dont think he can damage naruto so much without dura neg
Delusionaltx2
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The thing causing the existence erasure (the TSO's that I assume are surrounding Naruto here based on what ppl said about him pulling a madara) isn't interacting with the energy in question
This is like the flash phasing through objects to dura neg people
Cool, can the TSO's interact with what's basically intangible energy?
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Haki is not just energy as the ones in naruto, otherwise you're saying it's Existence Erasure can erase the power to feel others presence, the sensation of wanting to fight, and ones killing intent... that is literally what the 3 main Haki are composed of
combining mental energy and physical energy turning that to Chakra... Haki is directly creating weapons from one's spiritual-type senses
How is it erasing ones will when that has never happened..? Did Minato lose his will when getting affected? No? Then that's the specific Haki that gets turned into a weapon, you need proof it can erase senses/sensations
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I think you're missing something. Naruto's durability is equal to Gear 5th Luffy's bare physical punches. Armament Haki is a massive boost, and Conqueror's Haki is exponentially stronger than Armament Haki. Luffy can stack both. Naruto would keel over by a single double-coated punch from Luffy. And this is beside the fact that all of Luffy's attacks have layered durability negation in the first place.
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Huh? That's not how any of this works.
"Naruto will negate X's mind control by blowing his brain out with a shotgun"
"so you're saying Naruto will power null his mind hax? But X has 800 layers of power null resistance so Naruto can't blow his brains out!!"
Yeah the end result is technically nullification but the method to achieve it is not so power null resistance doesn't help you whatsoever. Like do you think if Luffy knocked off my cap I just won't be able to pick it up and put it back on my head because that'd technically be nullification?
That is cool. It is also not the same thing.
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