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The Sun God Nika vs The Six Paths Sage (Luffy vs Naruto).

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Samlex1234 said:
Exactly chakra is just that dude… and I mean literally, to the point that even devil fruits abilities can be attained through chakra types/nature combinations and unlike in One piece they don't have any limitations/weaknesses like water etc…

Paramecia- types
Akimichi - size expansion

Logia types
Suigetsu - Hydrification Technique
Ryu(Boruto)

Zoan-like

Tailed beast and their jinjurikin..
Kabuto
Kisame
Orochimaru
Click to expand...
yes... Now you get it, chakra is more like a devil fruit power 🐵👍 good job. Now you know how its not like Haki at all
 
KingTempest said:
the link for telepathy on the site links to chapter 257.
enel does not use telepathy on this chapter.

it is not different at all. it was just fully explained so it doesn't need to say "we're reading minds" every chapter

1. Rayleigh says that it's the same ability
2. The databooks say it's the same ability

It doesn't break the story or the narrative because most ppl who fight kenbun users are other kenbun users
Click to expand...
It links to what the wiki is trying to term as telepathy based on god's statement about Enel's mantra.

Might not be completely different but i don't think it's one-to-one either. Sure they don't need to show mind-reading everytime, but there should be at least 2-3 more cases of such a useful and broken ability. it's a pretty Op ability that can decide battles in-verse and outside it as well especially on this wiki.

Breaks the narrative though? how does a weaker kenbun user combat someone reading his thoughts? that makes no-sense. There is also Kanjuro and others man.
 
only-people-with-the-byakugan-can-use-gentle-fist-v0-h13b8lowpqfe1.jpg
im-not-surprised-that-we-have-a-new-conqueror-haki-level-v0-6gkwcorx3d7f1.png


"Chakra and Haki are not similar at all"
 
Trihexa102 said:
it links to what the wiki is trying to term as telepathy based on god's statement about Enel's mantra.
Click to expand...
about enel and his vassal's mantra*
Trihexa102 said:
it might not be completely different but i don't think it's one-to-one either. Sure they don't need to show mind-reading everytime, but there should be at least 2-3 more cases of such a useful and broken ability. it's a pretty Op ability that can decide battles in-verse and outside it as well especially on this wiki.
Click to expand...
an ability in a series should not get it's consistency dictated due to his power.
We see the ability is the same from the comparisons between Koby and Aisa's showings.
We see the mechanic to see where the enemy is attacking is universal.
They show this ability everytime they fight.
Luffy dodging water droplets, Luffy sensing that animals want to give him food while he's blindfolded, all of it is just applications of sensing voices.
Trihexa102 said:
It breaks the narrative though? how does a weaker kenbun user combat someone reading his thoughts? that makes no-sense. There is also Kanjuro and others man.
Click to expand...
the same exact way they fought them on skypiea.
 
Robo432343 said:
This is irrelevant because the verse = page just asks us if they have similar energy systems and if they can interact reasonably in combat
Click to expand...
which they do not...
Robo432343 said:
"Chakra does not allow you to sense other presence." Straight up not true. Chakra allows individuals to sense the presence of others. That's a specific skill used by Sensor Type shinobi's and powerful individuals can also detect it anyway.
Click to expand...
Bro is now lying, they sense based on ones chakra, Luffy or any other does not have that... They cannot sense the presence of things
Robo432343 said:
"Chakra does not allow you manifest an armour." Again not true. Chakra is defensively used as armour all the time like Chakra cloaks and Susanoo
Click to expand...
It's used as an energy around you, Haki does not... Haki is used either as a force, a flow or to imbue things in hardening like armor, similar to stiffing ones muscles
Robo432343 said:
"Chakra does not allow you to shoot out your spirit to overwhelm other spirits." No, similar effects to this still exist like killing intent and powerful chakra overwhelming weaker individuals
Click to expand...
Alright so nothing like con haki
Robo432343 said:
"Chakra creates new energies🥺" Okay? That's does not disqualify verse equalisation
Click to expand...
It does, because...
Furthermore, attacks that require a special type of energy to be effective, like anti-magic requiring magic, will be assumed to work against the energies of different Verses, as long as they are somehow similar and the mechanics are somehow compatible with the known mechanics behind the energies from different Verses. For example, mind control resistance by being a capable mind user would also work against other Verses, but mind control resistance through a strong will would not necessarily work against mind control from other Verses.
Click to expand...
Robo432343 said:
Chakra covers sensing, defence, and spiritual stuff in in different ways so the differences you listed don’t disqualify equalization at all.
Click to expand...
In different ways... As stated above would then not work for verse equalization. Thank you for debunking your argument
 
KingTempest said:
about enel and his vassal's mantra*

an ability in a series should not get it's consistency dictated due to his power.
We see the ability is the same from the comparisons between Koby and Aisa's showings.
We see the mechanic to see where the enemy is attacking is universal.
They show this ability everytime they fight.
Luffy dodging water droplets, Luffy sensing that animals want to give him food while he's blindfolded, all of it is just applications of sensing voices.

the same exact way they fought them on skypiea.
Click to expand...
@Trihexa102 if you really need another statement of the reading then here and here
but we see that it's all the same and that they all use it
4aCbxaZ.png
 
KingTempest said:
about enel and his vassal's mantra*

an ability in a series should not get it's consistency dictated due to his power.
We see the ability is the same from the comparisons between Koby and Aisa's showings.
We see the mechanic to see where the enemy is attacking is universal.
They show this ability everytime they fight.
Luffy dodging water droplets, Luffy sensing that animals want to give him food while he's blindfolded, all of it is just applications of sensing voices.

the same exact way they fought them on skypiea.
Click to expand...
specifically talking about enel's mantra.

Those are not cases of mind reading man?

They had no real usage of haki and they could still beat enel and his vassals.
 
Robo432343 said:
"Chakra and Haki are not similar at all"
Click to expand...
they aren't lol... Bro just showed two being invisible and non material and said they the same... Bro cannot be serious

That's adv arm Haki, which flows and acts like a force... Not energy like Chakra
 
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Trihexa102 said:
ok that connects it then, but like i said there is no mind-reading going on though? i haven't seen anything that convinces me of that so far.
Click to expand...
Sandersonia saw the move he was going to do before he ever even started to throw it, this is through reading his mind and seeing it.
This is why luffy keeps saying she can "read his moves"
 
KingTempest said:
"God AND HIS PRIESTS"

Why would they not be?

You know people can be skilled fighters without having precog right?
Click to expand...
why isn't naruto under the same umbrella then? he is pretty skilled.

It mainly highlights enels but like i said, we get context on enels mantra, we know enel achieves most of what he does via a combination with his devil fruit, so anything his vassals do is clearly much weaker.
 
KingTempest said:
Sandersonia saw the move he was going to do before he ever even started to throw it, this is through reading his mind and seeing it.
This is why luffy keeps saying she can "read his moves"
Click to expand...
you can predict what someone is gonna do without reading their minds? that is a huge leap to mind reading(as in knowing their thoughts) man.
 
Trihexa102 said:
why isn't naruto under the same umbrella then? he is pretty skilled.
Click to expand...
Does naruto have any feats of fighting mind readers?
No, he does not.
Trihexa102 said:
It mainly highlights enels but like i said, we get context on enels mantra, we know enel achieves most of what he does via a combination with his devil fruit, so anything his vassals do is clearly much weaker.
Click to expand...
We get a lot of context on enel's mantra.
Devil fruit abilities do not give you abilities not tied to your devil fruit.
You cannot use a fire devil fruit to move rock for example.

The Goro Goro no mi has no reason to amplify kenbun to read minds. It amplifies kenbun by allowing it to hear things on the electromagnetic spectrum.
The databook says "With his ability to manipulate lightning and the use of the "Mantra" to perceive the entire island".
It specifically separates the lightning and his mantra.

The lightning DF does nothing but let him hear electromagnetic waves.

Enel's and the vassals both have feats of reading minds.
Trihexa102 said:
you can predict what someone is gonna do without reading their minds? that is a huge leap to mind reading(as in knowing their thoughts) man.
Click to expand...
you cannot predict a man that you've never seen stretch is going to stretch without reading their mind
also, her eyes are closed. she can't see shit.
 
KingTempest said:
Sandersonia saw the move he was going to do before he ever even started to throw it, this is through reading his mind and seeing it.
This is why luffy keeps saying she can "read his moves"
Click to expand...
true

  • 読み切って (Yomikiru): This translates to "completely reading" or "fully seeing through." It implies the opponent didn't just guess; they knew exactly where the punch was going.
    Explain in English fully what it means: 読み切って

    Ai explanation:

Gemini said​

In the context of One Piece and Japanese action media, 読み切って (Yomikirte) is a powerful verb that describes total mental dominance over an opponent.

It is the conjunctive form of the verb 読み切る (Yomikiru). To understand it fully, we have to break it into two parts:

1. The Literal Breakdown​

  • 読み (Yomi): From the verb Yomu, meaning "to read." In a combat context, this refers to "reading" an opponent's movements, intentions, or "tells."
  • 切る (Kiru): Literally means "to cut," but when used as a suffix to another verb (like -kiru), it means "to do something completely/thoroughly" or "to the very end."
Literal Translation: "To read through to the very end" or "To finish reading completely."
Click to expand...

2. The Contextual Meaning​

When used in a fight (especially regarding Observation Haki), it means:"To completely see through an opponent's moves without a shadow of a doubt."

It implies that the person isn't just "guessing" or "reacting." Instead, they have mentally processed the entire sequence of the attack before it even finishes. It’s like reading the last page of a mystery novel—the "ending" (the attack's landing point) is already known to them.

3. Why this word is used for Haki​

In the sentence you shared earlier (...攻撃を、全て読み切ってかわしていた!!), using 読み切って instead of just "reading" (読み) emphasizes two things:

  • 100% Accuracy: There were no mistakes in the prediction.
  • Ease of Defense: Because the user "read the whole book" of the attack, dodging it was effortless. It’s the difference between "I think he'll punch left" and "I know exactly where his fist will be in 0.5 seconds."

4. English Equivalents​

Depending on the vibe of the translation, you could translate 読み切って as:

  • "Completely saw through..."
  • "Perfectly predicted..."
  • "Fully anticipated..."
  • "Had [the opponent] totally figured out..."

Summary​

Think of it as "Total Prediction." It’s the moment a fighter realizes their opponent is three steps ahead of them and every move they make has already been "read" and discarded.

Would you like to see how this compares to other combat terms, like 見切る (Mikiru), which is often used for "perfect dodging"?
Click to expand...
 
KingTempest said:
Does naruto have any feats of fighting mind readers?
No, he does not.

We get a lot of context on enel's mantra.
Devil fruit abilities do not give you abilities not tied to your devil fruit.
You cannot use a fire devil fruit to move rock for example.

The Goro Goro no mi has no reason to amplify kenbun to read minds. It amplifies kenbun by allowing it to hear things on the electromagnetic spectrum.
The databook says "With his ability to manipulate lightning and the use of the "Mantra" to perceive the entire island".
It specifically separates the lightning and his mantra.

The lightning DF does nothing but let him hear electromagnetic waves.

Enel's and the vassals both have feats of reading minds.

you cannot predict a man that you've never seen stretch is going to stretch without reading their mind
also, her eyes are closed. she can't see shit.
Click to expand...
I mean he does though, via chakra or exchanging blows. pretty sure Naruto is far more skilled than pre-timeskip strawhats.

His devil fruit amplifies his mantra to hear conversations, make it seem like he can read your thoughts and general sensing like i said.

we literally see luffy attacking random things bypassing it(naruto's specialty AOE).

Enel has feats and statement but with context his is specialized so no-one scales to his, his vassal's are much inferior to his so their's can be scale to luffy though.

Luffy is a very straightforward fighter man, he doesn't fight complex till later(if he even does tbh) on especially compared to other characters. The moment luffy entered gear 2nd we are shown more. she is reading his intent not his mind or she would have known he was going gear 2nd.
 
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MonkeyOfLife said:
Intent is more superficial, they read the minds and hearts of opponents, not just ones intent
Click to expand...
intent is the best word narratively for what she did or what obvs users do, not literally reading your mind. otherwise they would know all you abilities and techniques which is clearly not the case in OP.
 
Trihexa102 said:
intent is the best word narratively for what she did or what obvs users do, not literally reading your mind. otherwise they would know all you abilities and techniques which is clearly not the case in OP.
Click to expand...
They do tho...?
0246-013.png

Intent is more the sensing the heart aspect while the mind part is you sensing/reading their conscious decisions
 
Trihexa102 said:
i mean he is literally seeing luffy turning his arm 360 completely? ofc he can infer that.

does he know about gear 2? clearly not.
Click to expand...
What????

Luffy didn't even have Gear 2nd by that point. You guys really need to stop speaking on what you don't know
 
I haven't been keeping up with the last... 7 pages or so, can someone remind me how Luffy being able to read minds or not with Observation Haki will factor into the battle exactly?
 
Damage3245 said:
I haven't been keeping up with the last... 7 pages or so, can someone remind me how Luffy being able to read minds or not with Observation Haki will factor into the battle exactly?
Click to expand...
If the arguments are the same as they were 6 hours ago, people are claiming that observation Haki gives extreme tunnel vision... Whatever the hell that means
 
Kachon123 said:
If the arguments are the same as they were 6 hours ago, people are claiming that observation Haki gives extreme tunnel vision... Whatever the hell that means
Click to expand...
talking about future sight, which is why we see cases where luffy is tagged by flampe and CP0.
 
Damage3245 said:
I haven't been keeping up with the last... 7 pages or so, can someone remind me how Luffy being able to read minds or not with Observation Haki will factor into the battle exactly?
Click to expand...
"Read the opponent’s mind and sense their next move! Whether it is evading enemy attacks or predicting movements to land your own strikes, it is a versatile ability that can be applied in many different situations."

3. "Evading" vs. "Landing Strikes" (避けたり...攻撃を当てる)​

This is the most important part of the text because it highlights that Haki is Offensive, not just defensive.
  • Defensive: You move your head an inch to the left because you know a bullet is coming there.
  • Offensive: You don't aim where the enemy is standing now; you aim where your Haki tells you they are about to dodge to. This makes your attacks feel "homing" or impossible to escape.
Click to expand...
AI attack, too tired to type much
 
Damage3245 said:
I haven't been keeping up with the last... 7 pages or so, can someone remind me how Luffy being able to read minds or not with Observation Haki will factor into the battle exactly?
Click to expand...
They are trying to scale luffy to enels mantra when we know it's was due to him combining it with his devil fruit
 
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