Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[Arkenis]

Ark......you're forgetting what site we're on

I should go back to spacebattles

 

[Mommyleona]

Prove Dabura can do it instinctually. Just because one sorcerer is able to something on instinct doesn’t mean another can do the same. You’re literally going off of headcanon and just asserting that’s what’s happening and that Dabura can ever perform such a maneuver when he’s never demonstrated such in the series before.

he doesnt even need to do it instinctively, he can just consciously choose to focus his ce to block lol, basic sorcerer skill btw

 

[Electronic74947]

I should go back to spacebattles

City level muzan is coming for you

 

[Arkenis]

City level muzan is coming for you

I will use 9-A bombs

 

[Electronic74947]

I will use 9-A bombs

He'll run away with his relatvistic speed

But he's narcoleptic so he might accidentally fall asleep and not dodge them

 

[Rodriiogo]

No I said they can get a baseline of how strong he was based on his presence, but they wouldn’t actually be aware of his true strength. That remains consistent. You can feel the aura of somebody’s power without knowing fully how powerful they really are.

And I already told you I'd agree if we didn't have more confirmation and narrative about it, which we do, so that's out of the window.

An as I already said this would still apply to Dabura’s strength and stats especially as we can directly witness his technique increase his own stats as well and even further increasing his stats after going through a warrior mentality breakthrough, so Sukuna wouldn’t be scaling to Dabura’s stats towards his light speed kick. And again Jujutsu society or anyone would know Dabura’s technique at that point either.

He never increased his own stats with his technique and you will never prove that outside of your awful awful headcanon.

Yeah and Usami referenced that they determined Dabura’s strength based on his presence alone, not getting an accurate read on his powers. Jabaloma warns them about Dabura’s presence since his very presence gives off an aura that they can feel which is how they gauged how strong he was. They’re just assuming based off of his presence alone, what Dabura does beyond what Sukuna has been shown to isn’t a Sukuna upscale, it’s just Dabura going beyond the expectations Jujutsu society first assumed of him without knowing anything else about him or his strength.

It doesn't matter but tell me when Usami confirmed this was the case for the higher ups are you just head canoning (again).

And I already said why it does matter. The other statements don’t prove them to be correct. Trying to use promotional material as conformation isn’t substantial evidence a the narrative itself directly goes against Sukuna being comparable the moment Dabura went light speed. You keep missing the point that the statement from Jujutsu society isn’t 100% gospel, they’re taken by characters who don’t know anything about Dabura or his capabilities. They’re subject to change once new information has come to light that demonstrates Dabura being vastly superior to Sukuna, which it has.

Except it does. And the narrative ner goes against Sukuna being comparable, being faster won't make you more of a threat every single time you know? Naoya was faster than Mahito and Hanami yet is be below them in power and as a threat. Naobito was way faster than Dagon and was straight up blitzing him. Still less of a threat and danger than Dagon. You're acting like being faster means you're strong in JJK, this ain't Dragon Ball man and if you look at the current feats for Sukuna on our page you're gonna notice something very funny yk! (Relativistic), and even if we ignore that, Sukuna blatantly reacts to a light speed attack. I'm NOT saying he's close to dabura in speed before you even try strawmanning me here by the way. Dabura is obviously above 90% SOL and his leg gets to lightspeed for the kick itself, I know this and I helped with the OP of the thread that talks about this, however, what I will say is that dabura being faster doesn't mean he is now stronger.

No the intent was to demonstrate superiority to Sukuna and the previous gen. You can peal clutch that statement all you want.

Prove that. You still fail to that miserably.

Yeah which is why he had Dabura go light speed. Which is ASTRONOMICALLY more powerful than anything Sukuna has demonstrated.
It takes speed and durability in order to be able to achieve light speed, you understand that right? It’s not just speed, it takes a substantial amount of power as well.

You are giving me a speed feat that Sukuna has never done to debunk why he doesn't have the durability on Dabura's level. Well done, keep trying you're failing to prove anything here.

…do you seriously not understand that being able to go that “SPEED” requires a certain amount of “POWER” to it as well…?

...do you seriously not understand that having more "SPEED" doesn't mean you won't have more "POWER" than someone just because they have less "SPEED" as well...?

You realize that cursed spirit Naoya had to put forth a binding vow to increase his durability in order to be able to simply withstand traveling at Mach 3 speeds. And yet Dabura’s body is capable of withstanding relativistic levels of speed. You were the one who wanted to bring up narrative, did you forgot that Gege has established that the higher speeds you go, the more durability your body needs in order to be able to withstand those high speeds?

Dawg. I HELPED IN THE THREAD AND WAS THE ONE DEFENDING DABURA'S SCALE VIA HIS SPEED. WHY ARE YOU TELLING ME THIS???
I'm not disagreeing with any of that, I'm saying this doesn't mean Sukuna doesnt have that level of durability just because he never went at that speed. IN THE SAME STATEMENT about naoya's binding vow, Kamo says his durability is not that impressive compared to Hanami normally even tho normally he is still faster than Hanami.

So yeah, light speed is a narrative sweep for Dabura, he’s washing Sukuna.

In speed. Not in power because nothing ever said "Sukuna can't handle near light speeds".

Hmm yes, the giant explosion that Gege drew isn’t actually an explosion, of course that’s totally the narrative purpose of the image huh. And yeah Yuji blowing up that army to kill an entire swarm of cursed spirits in the abandoned city of Tokyo. Yes that makes perfect sense, you want to explain why that somehow goes against the narrative? Cause all you’re doing is just claiming it’s unreasonable without actually proving any reasonable explanation. You talking about not reading and yet somehow try to say the biggest explosion Gege has put to paper somehow isn’t actually an explosion. Forget about reading, bro you’re not even looking at the images.

...army? He would blow up HOUSES. PEOPLE'S HOMES, not an "army" it would indeed not make sense in-character for him to do that because he is not Sukuna, he would not build up houses just because. And I already proved why it aint an explosion you just loveee being ignorant.

Okay so for one, Tsurika didn’t cause the second explosion. In fact we can directly witness them being in the exact same position before and after the explosion takes place. They literally didn’t move until after the explosion took place, they weren't the source of it.

Dawg no. That's because he is swinging again but this at Maru?? I love how you cut the next page. In the previous part Maru literally says he wasn't aiming at him but at the cursed spirit, here he's aiming at Maru, it is indeed not the same position.

The reason he went back to a swinging position is because he dashes at Maru right after. Not because he didn't fire a slash before.
Also we straight up see that the cursed spirits getting slashed panel are the same cursed spirits that were dashing at Maru and Tsurugi:

It's just straight up obviously Tsurugi doing it. If you think it's an "explosion" (straight up wrong) How do you think the explosions are separated? Do you think yuji threw a dismantle, teleported kms away then threw another immediatly after to create two? Genuinely the entire panel itself is yuji's dismantle and tsurugi's swing together FOR A REASON. Look at the panel in question, you see him swinging.

But secondly, you didn’t even try and address the argument I presented. You just started spouting off on something completely unrelated. The narratively high feat is killing that many cursed spirits to produce that large of an explosion from that far away. Do you understand? It’s an established fact that increasing the size and range of an attack decreases its output and strength, and yet Yuji with just a basic dismantle was still able to annihilate so many cursed spirits it was able to produce a several kilometer wide explosion. That’s a narratively high feat. Far beyond anything Sukuna has ever demonstrated in fact. It’s just pure cope to deny otherwise.

Because your argument is useless. I said I acknowledge that the attack loses strength, absolutely it does you're completley right on that. The point is, even using your example of hollow purple losing 80% of his output after 4km. Let's say Yuji's dismantle lost 99.5% of the output after those 10km. 0.5% of Yuji's power matching GRADE 3-4 CURSES IS NOT A FEAT ON SUKUNA'S LEVEL. I hope you understand that grade 3-4 curses are on par (grade 3s) and BELOW (grade 4s) with Grade 4 sorcerers. Dawg even MIWA is superior to all those curses. You think 0.5% of Sukuna's power doesn't match someone below miwa? I just showed that 10% Output 16F Sukuna was still on par with CG Yuji and Awakened Maki, two heavy hitters of the verse. Genuinely what happened to reading comprehension.

Your argument from incredulity isn’t an argument. It’s a fallacy as I’ve already told you. And yeah Yuji can be however much stronger than them as he likes. Guess what the characters like Uruame in your image didn’t know? That Yuji was immortal, in fact Uruame didn’t even know Yuji had another cursed technique either.

...? Does making you immortal make your latent potential bigger? Dude, please go read what it means. You don't GAIN more latent potential just because you can be older, what is this nonsense? You think Kenjaku has more latent potential than Sukuna and Gojo because he lived longer or something?

Sukuna’s domain expansion. Yuji directly had the memories of what transpired during it and we even see that during Yuji’s mental breakdown, the images of Sukuna slaughtering everyone in Shibuya was shown as part of Yuji’s memories. So that’s not true, Yuji directly had knowledge of the power Sukuna displayed in Shibuya.

Didn't remember this, that's fair. Point is that Yuji can't feel Sukuna's power here, Sukuna didn't go all out in all of shibuya other than domain and that's obvious, especially in the manga where he just used 3 attacks on Mahoraga then immediatly went for domain. By Yuji's perspective, all he saw was Sukuna beating on Jogo level characters easily and someone he has no known power about (Mahoraga). Memories doesn't make you able to sense someone's power.

And I’ve already explained to you why that is the case. Also these statements don’t dispute the fact that Yuji can grow stronger than Gojo. In fact Gojo himself stated he believed Megumi had more potential and skill than Yuji, so this in turn further supports that Gojo viewed his students as capable of growing stronger than him. And the statement by Uruame just PROVES that Yuji’s potential and strength is greater than Sukuna’s because Uruame made that statement without knowing about Yuji’s second cursed technique or his immortal body.

First off, how does this prove Gojo viewed his students as capable of growing stronger than him? Not saying you're wrong about that but your evidence is garbage. Second off, again, how does having an immortal body and a new technique thats UNRELATED TO PHYSICAL STRENGTH... make you PHYSICALLY STRONGER? Like sure if you think Yuji can use blood manipulation in the same way choso and kamo did he could use it to block attacks stronger than him, why does that matter? The point is that Yuji's potential is to equal sukuna and be as good as Gojo of a sorcerer, which the narrative supports via him being confident he could beat a Sukuna level threat. That's IT. That's Yuji's narrative, he is physically on the same level as Sukuna due to his latent potential and has become an amazing sorcerer with multiple of his techniques to the point he could beat Sukuna level threats, nothing supports him being miles stronger or even stronger in general.

And I already explained to you why you’re incorrect. For someone that likes to talk about the narrative and what that means, you sure do like to ignore the clear narrative intent with portraying an explosion that large. The reason it’s so impressive is because Yuji was able to kill so many curses from so far away and produce such a large explosion, you have yet to address these facts and have simply opted to just saying its not impressive, which isn’t an argument. Prove Sukuna is capable of doing any feat such as this so casually as Yuji has done, otherwise it’s leagues above him.

Refer to above, you're just wrong. You ignored my explanation on why it's curses dust btw. You even ignored the fact that there's literally no destruction so it can't be an explosion.

Since you previously differed to lightning as a reliable source, I’ll do the same. Here lighting clarifies that what Sukuna is referring to is his cursed technique output and NOT his physical output.

I used lightning as a reliable source for translations, and even noted that it's fine if you think his translation is wrong aslong as you give me evidence for it, in the same way I think Lightning is wrong here aswell (and I'll explain better on the next paragraph)

Thats why Yuta was still able to keep up with Gojo and Sukuna’s fight as they’re obviously faster than 10% of 16f Sukuna. Also 16f Sukuna was still able to keep up with Maki despite the fact that Megumi confirmed that Toji (Maki’s equal) was faster than 3f Sukuna, which further proves that Sukuna’s physical stats weren’t nerfed as much as per Lightning’s translation clarifies.

I genuinely wanna ask you before I assume you said such an absurd thing. Are you trying to say that Yuta scales to FP Gojo and Sukuna's speed because he kept up with the recording of them fighting that Normal Humans can also watch due to how the crows work? Are you gonna say normal humans also scale to their speed? It was being live streamed country-wide you know and people made bets on it and everything. Spectator scaling is insanity what level of delusion have we gotten to.

And how does Toji being faster than 3F Sukuna proves that Maki is faster than 10% 16F Sukuna lol? You know that finger scaling isn't linear right? Jogo is confirmed to be 5F Sukuna level yet was getting completely dogwalked by 15F Sukuna while holding back massively. Mind you, if you think finger scaling is linear you'd be saying that the gap between Mahito and Yuji (1 < 2) is bigger than the gap between Jogo and 15F Sukuna (0.25 < 0.75, if you use fingers as linear).

Anyways, have you forgotten that, again, I wonder why you ignored that, Ryu who was very much able to keep up with Yuta in speed and was even physically superior to SHINJUKU YUTA AND YUJI, got BLITZED AND ONE SHOTTED by a 16F Sukuna post his bath that returned his output back to normal? Before you even TRY and utter the words "but that was with cleave" may I remind you that the Gojo VS Sukuna straight up proves that Sukuna's physical, especially durability does indeed scale to his cleaves since Gojo was able to take a DOMAIN of being constantly cleaved, more than once, even in the same way Ryu took them? For even MORE evidence, Sukuna who was weaker than the one that couldn't inflict blows on Yuji and Yuta with dismantles (people weaker than Ryu who 16F Sukuna one shotted and blitzed) STILL BLITZED MAKI PHYSICALLY AND IMMEDIATLY TOOK HER OUT WHEN HE ACTUALLY TRIED.
There is literally no way you are trying to say that the Sukuna that Maki and CG Yuji fought was at 100% output physically unless you are completely and utterly delusional. It's obvious that the 10% was in reference to his physical output aswell.

That wasn’t what my question was. And you keep trying to downplay Yuji’s feat by not proving the actual context of the feat. For somebody that likes to talk about narrative, at least be honest with the narrative in questions it was just grade 3-4 curses lmao, it was a literal army of cursed spirits, enough to produce several kilometer wide explosions and was launched casually from several kilometers away. Prove 10% of Sukuna’s output is capable of performing such a feat, I know you can’t because there’s such feat present for Sukuna.

Damaging and being comparable to CG Yuji and Awakened Maki with 10% is a better feat than killing curses below miwa's level from a distance. I will stand on that yes. What's the issue? Maki is also stronger than Maru and was taking stuff from Tsurika who also did said explosion as I proved. So no it doesn't prove anything.

No it’s complete headcanon to say everything was recorded and shown. In fact we even KNOW that everything wasn’t depicted since Yuka’s whole presence is omitted and the cause for the fight is completely unknown to the public. And again you keep failing to address what I said and keep arguing with the imaginary ghosts in your head. I didn’t say Ui-Ui stopped recording I said there can be parts that he’s simply unable to record such as Dabura’s light speed kick due to how fast it was. You don’t know and it’s completely headcanon to say it appears in the video. Also nice contradiction, you said “EVERYTHING” was recorded but also say they didn’t see Yuka summon Mahoraga. Okay so then not “everything” was recorded then or shown to the public, so thanks for just proving that point.

Your entire point falls apart because I didn't say he needed to record Dabura's lightspeed kick nor his near lightspeed movement. Because the whole point is that I'm claiming is that Sukuna and Gojo scale to Dabura's regular stats, not his light speed kick AP as that obviously gaps their physical stats by an unknown amount, the fact that the crows are able to record them clashing as seen in the image is already enough since it'd already allow them to see his power. They'd also see the destruction lightspeed and output that the kick did by the way unless you think everyone just closed their eyes and turned off their senses when he did that.

Dabura can still react to himself moving at light speed and also his own regular beam attacks move at light speed as well so no actually it’s quite EASY to prove Dabura’s significantly faster. And I’m not acting like Sukuna and Gojo can’t do that, that’s just continuing to strawman me and argue with the imagined argument you made up.

He has higher attack speed with his CT yes, and him reacting would just come with his own acceleration. You can indeed not prove he is way faster normally. And I didn't strawman you, I asked you if that was your point cause if it isn't then I don't see WHAT it is, I even say "surely not" at the end. I don't understand your point here at all.

Prove Dabura can do it instinctually. Just because one sorcerer is able to something on instinct doesn’t mean another can do the same. You’re literally going off of headcanon and just asserting that’s what’s happening and that Dabura can ever perform such a maneuver when he’s never demonstrated such in the series before. You’re literally talking about a distinctly different thing. Wha Todo did was concentrate all of his cursed energy into a single point. This is different than what Yuji did which was just focus on utilizing basic cursed energy to begin with.
No you completely missed the point. Gojo’s 120% HP annihilated both of Sukuna’s arms. Gojo’s basic punches don’t do nearly as much damage to Sukuna. Ergo, something 3x stronger than Gojo’s regular attacks is capable of blowing off both of Sukuna’s arms. This has nothing to do with Sukuna concentrating more cursed energy into his arms to block the attack, that’s just the natural result of an attack being able to produce more damage.

If a car hits me at 60 miles an hour, that’s going to hurt a lot more and damage me far more than if I got hit by a car traveling at 20 miles an hour, you understand?

First off that's something every sorcerer does on instinct and is something any sorcerer can do at will aswell, it's literally the basic cursed energy manipulation that Todo teaches Yuji man, it's how cursed energy always works as that's how you make it flow through your body, sorcerers constantly protect their own body instinctively due to cursed energy and what Yuji did is indeed the same application of Cursed Energy as he is focusing it on a part of his body but is being used in a different way (for offense). If his AP increased in that fist then his durability also did... you know that... right?. Mahito's whole plan against Yuji even relied on that since he knew that when Yuji does that against him he is basically lowering his own defenses since he is focusing it on his fist instead of his entire body as he should normally. If you think Dabura can't do that normally then it means you think he doesn't constantly reinforce his body with his own power at all time,, which at that point Mahoraga damaging him would be useless since it'd mean Dabura wasnt reinforcing himself with CE while that was hapenning so his CE would be superior to those physicals by alot. Pick your poison, eitherway Sukuna scales.

And genuinely what are you talking about. It was a 120% Output Purple. We SEE what a 100% output purple does to Sukuna and this was one that wasn't even targetting Sukuna as it was exploded without a target. Gojo's Black Flash literally sent Sukuna to sleep as I showed and this is an attack below Hollow Purple by alot if we are being serious, going even further, even with DOMAIN AMPLIFICATION, Sukuna could not nulify A WEAKER Red's damages to his body. And just to put the final nail on your coffin, Sukuna himself confirms that a regular Purple at the stage where it vaporized Mahoraga would prove fatal to him and that the reason he was able to get away from 120% hollow purple was because he used his reinforced arms. Genuinely man.

No it does mean something. It shows Dabura got S T R O N G E R. In each of the examples you showed, the characters N E V E R demonstrated surpassing the thing they were just defending against like Dabura did with Mahoraga.
Especially when Mahoraga WAS JUST BEATING ON DABURA. Which shows that their stats were relative before for Mahoraga to be able to wound Dabura in the first place. And after adaptation Mahoraga only becomes stronger and more durable to attacks. So the fact that Dabura could break Mahoraga’s sword that was just beating on him WITH THE PALM OF HIS HAND is demonstrative and shows he got physically stronger.

Answering this two together aswell.
Headcanon of doom and despair because I already told you how sorcerers work and nothing ever notes Dabura got stronger. As for the other part I already proved why it is something above them, but do you genuinely think the gap between Mahito's Black Flash and TODO is smaller than the gap between Mahoraga's sword and Dabura...? I'm all for Todo glaze but the fact you think Shibuya Todo would be able to take anything sort of 2.5x Mahito is... cmon.

And thanks for just ignoring EVERYTHING I said. "Mahoraga's durability isn't linea-" "MAHORAGA WAS BEATING DABURA SO IT MEANS THE DURABILITY OF HIS SWORD IS X!", "Mahoraga was also taking stuff from Gojo and cutting him, more than one time yet a regular purple vaporized him when a 120% purple was blocked by Sukuna's reinforced arms and a weakened Sukuna also survived said purple that vaporized Mahoraga" "BUT DABURA GOT STRONGER BECAUSE MAHORAGA'S SWORD BROKE" like man please. I already said why it doesn't matter.

Again you really like arguing with the ghosts inside your head instead of me since you’re still not addressing what I said or even providing an actual contradiction. There was no thousands of times stronger, that’s just a strawman you came up with for my argument. And Mahoraga is able to adapt to freaking infinite pressure in not a lot of time just off of Liquid Metal. Mahoraga was already shown to adapt multiple times to Dabura once he started doing the light speed kick. Him being able to keep up with Dabura isn’t a contradiction.

Mahoraga did not and can not (since he'd just die lol) adapt to infinite pressure. He adapted to the technique itself (liquid metal) when it wasn't infinite pressure which made every application of it useless, and this needed a whole sequence where Sukuna took hits from yorozu and used techniques on her for it to happen you know? Mahoraga had not adapted to Dabura's physicals a single time before that and you think he immediatly adapted to him AFTER he got even thousands of times stronger (let me clarify that the thousands of times comes from the scaling that is being pushed right now. Sukuna and Gojo would barely scale to 1 megaton yet you're trying to say Dabura scales above Gigatons, that is indeed a over 1000x difference).

It does mean Dabura got physically stronger as I’ve already proven to you, your argument is moot lol. The mentality he achieved and his efforts to push himself to new heights which he didn’t achieve before resulted in him getting stronger. Dabura GOT STRONGER.
We do directly witness Dabura get stronger, you can cope all you want about it though. Those examples you bring up about Yuji and Choso also further support and show that a change in mentality allows you to grow stronger. Yuji being able to utilize cursed energy at all thanks to his mental breakthrough was the whole basis for him getting so much stronger in fact. Just read Dabura’s own dialogue too man. What does he say when he’s literally pushing himself past his limits to do his light speed kick? Oh yeah “catch up to the warriors!!” His warrior mentality was directly contributed to his STRENGTH since we even see him PUSH HIMSELF to new heights of STRENGTH in order to reach the warriors. He’s saying that to be a true warriror, it’s not about fighting because you want to, it’s about fighting because you HAVE to. In order to PROTECT the people you care about. You think Dabura literally pushing himself to new STRENGTHS in order to become a warrior isn’t related to him growing stronger?? Even though he’s saying as much??? Narrative who? We need Dabura downscale!!!

"Need Dabura downscale" and you tried to say he is so awful at Cursed energy manipulation that can't do something NOVICE SORCERERS can do
First off in the Yuji and Choso example, Yuji, just like Dabura, did not get stronger, he just started utilizing his cursed energy more efficiently, same way in the Fearsome womb arc, he always had that output but he was unable to use it and Gojo explains this to him, said emotions allowed him to utilize it not because of a buff but because emotions like that make you immediatly spit out your cursed energy as it is directly connected to them.
As for the entire rest of your message, all you said here is just straight up lies with no scans lol. When is it said he is pushing himself to new heights of strength to reach the warriors? That was not what Doula said and what Dabura thought about. Let's read the story accurately instead of making lies please:

"It's not that you don't want to fight, it's just that you never have fought before"
"Possessing strength does not make you a warrior"
"I see it now. To fight because you wish to. To not fight because you don't want to. Neither of those were really a fight."
"Not to fight because you don't want to... but because you must! Now that's what a real fight is! And those who are worthy of it are real warriors!"
"Forgive me... from now on I'll fight as I should have..."

The whole point isn't Dabura growing in strength, Dabura's issue wasn't simply lacking willingness to fight, he was simply someone who has never truly had a challenge, he had never truly fought like he should so he could never fully understand what being a warrior is. Doula is telling him that simply having strength/power does not make you a warrior, regardless of how strong you are as a warrior is defined by purpose and resolve rather than "stats". Choosing to fight or not to fight are both stuff driven by personal emotions so they aren't something that shows the true meaning of a warrior so they are never truly a fight. Here, for the first time, Dabura has to fight not out of willingness but out of necessity and because he must so he will finally have the meaning and accept the responsibility of being a real warrior, he will finally fight as he should have been all along. He is actually fighting properly now, a real fight. The breaking of the sword is the first showing of him fighting properly, he is back to countering Mahoraga instead of taking it by reinforcing his hand with cursed energy (alongside symbolically representing his realization), his hand even has smoke after it to show that and Dabura ackowledges that he will keep beating Mahoraga until his hands crumble away which wouldn't make sense if he just got thousands of times stronger to the point he could one shot Mahoraga with even a regular punch lol as he didn't know that Mahoraga could adapt that quickly to blunt force before. And I explained Dabura's lightspeed narrative acceleration with his limits since I helped with the OP so I will just copy it off there:

Spoiler: Dabura's Acceleration Narrative

He starts at near light-speed immediatly, right after INITIATING his "dance". However instead of stopping there as he normally would (as he could never reach light-speed), since Dabura is intending to break his limits, he continues to accelerate "more..!! more..!!" to reach the light (NOTE: he was already moving at high relativistic speeds here as seen by the effects and how he is running right alongside the light, you can see the effects were already high relativistic speed effects).

As he jumps, he approaches the speed of light (as in the context that he's just about to reach it) and we even get the parallel of "reaching the warriors" as he's about to reach speed of light with the previous dialogue of "reach the light" he did. He knows his body will give in cause he can't handle light-speed but he doesn't care he will reach the light, reaching the warriors. And we even get the representation of him fully reaching as he kicks Mahoraga at the exact same time his own light breaks the glass, as he just "shattered his own body's limits".

This isn't as simple as "he shattered his limits so he got stronger", he simply ignored his own limitations of not being able to hand light-speed and went full in, out of the necessity as a warrior, fullfilling the meaning of the warrior, getting out of his own comfort and personal need, into the necessity of a warrior.

His power did not change.

And they can also be dismissed when further evidence comes to light that calls those statements into question. In this case, it is as I’ve directly proven. There’s a clear misunderstanding you seem to have regarding light speed.

Going light speed isn’t just a speed feat. It a feat towards power and durability as well.

I already said why this argument doesn't make sense. There's nothing contradicting them man please.

 

[Treeztarz]

blud thinks hes chariot

 

[BiggestOpp]

Rod drop some more word salad, im finna start a diet

 

[Rodriiogo]

Rod drop some more word salad, im finna start a diet

I'd say reading can't be this hard but then I realised who I'm talking to

 

[BiggestOpp]

I'd say reading can't be this hard but then I realised who I'm talking to

If sb make a top 15 list and I see Kashimo in the number 5 spot I’m not gone bother reading the rest cus ik it’s a bunch of bullshit.
Ian gone bother reading some shi if ik it’s a bunch of nonsense. So keep the salad coming lil bro

 

[Maitreya12]

And I already told you I'd agree if we didn't have more confirmation and narrative about it, which we do, so that's out of the window.

And as I’ve explained promotional material and statements which further don’t even support the position aren’t strong basis for determining it.

He never increased his own stats with his technique and you will never prove that outside of your awful awful headcanon.

He did and that’s directly proven via him shattering Mahoraga’s blade with his bare hand. You can cope all you want with that but that’s just denial.

It doesn't matter but tell me when Usami confirmed this was the case for the higher ups are you just head canoning (again).

This whole sequence. In which they’re judging and determining Dabura’s strength based off his aura and presence alone.

Except it does. And the narrative ner goes against Sukuna being comparable, being faster won't make you more of a threat every single time you know? Naoya was faster than Mahito and Hanami yet is be below them in power and as a threat. Naobito was way faster than Dagon and was straight up blitzing him. Still less of a threat and danger than Dagon.

Except it doesn’t. And the narrative directly goes against Sukuna being comparable to Dabura. Being order and orders of magnitude faster does in fact make you much more of a threat. You’re acting like we’re not talking about an order of magnitude literally tens of thousands of times greater.

You're acting like being faster means you're strong in JJK, this ain't Dragon Ball man and if you look at the current feats for Sukuna on our page you're gonna notice something very funny yk! (Relativistic), and even if we ignore that, Sukuna blatantly reacts to a light speed attack. I'm NOT saying he's close to dabura in speed before you even try strawmanning me here by the way. Dabura is obviously above 90% SOL and his leg gets to lightspeed for the kick itself, I know this and I helped with the OP of the thread that talks about this, however, what I will say is that dabura being faster doesn't mean he is now stronger.

Holy cope. To be significantly fast literally does require you to be significantly strong and durable as well. We literally see this with Naoya where he has to have a binding bow to increase his durability at just Mach 3 speeds in order to be able to withstand it. Dabura running at near light speeds generates an enormous amount of energy. This is an insane amount of cope to be denying the fact that running at such incredibly high speeds requires you to be very strong and durable in JJK. And Sukuna didn’t react to any light speed attack, he aim dodged a move from Kashimo. It’s even more blatantly confirmed by Gege that no one has moved at light speed in JJK cause it’s established that Dabura moving at sub-light speeds is “beyond the limits of mankind.”

So yeah Dabura being faster, to the point of light speed, does in fact mean he’s stronger considering the established fact of JJK that even Mach 3 speeds pose danger to special grade cursed spirits.

Prove that. You still fail to that miserably.

I did and I already explained it to you. The whole light speed business cleanly cements that fact, but keep throwing a tantrum all you like about it.

You are giving me a speed feat that Sukuna has never done to debunk why he doesn't have the durability on Dabura's level. Well done, keep trying you're failing to prove anything here.

Wow nice job completely ignoring the argument I made in my comment in order to throw in a snide remark as your response, you’re very good at doing that, now would you like to actually try and address the point I made specifically about having high speed requires high durability as well in JJK?

...do you seriously not understand that having more "SPEED" doesn't mean you won't have more "POWER" than someone just because they have less "SPEED" as well...?

Yeah you’re just gishgalloping and not addressing the argument. Did you forget what you asked me? Here.

Hmm that's gotta be interesting he will surely show narratively dabura washing Sukuna in POWER right as that's the convo right... right?

Do you see what I mean? All your "narrative" for Dabura being much strong is SPEED

You asked me to show you Dabura washing Sukuna in power and then got all uppity that I said the light speed kick because that’s apparently just “speed.” No dude that’s demonstrative of having high power, far beyond what Sukuna has demonstrated in fact.

The light speed kick shows Dabura washing Sukuna in BOTH speed and power. Because speed and power is required to achieve light speed.

Dawg. I HELPED IN THE THREAD AND WAS THE ONE DEFENDING DABURA'S SCALE VIA HIS SPEED. WHY ARE YOU TELLING ME THIS???

Because you clearly seemed to not understand how light speed travel is related to power. If you know how this stuff works, then actually know how it works bro.

I'm not disagreeing with any of that, I'm saying this doesn't mean Sukuna doesnt have that level of durability just because he never went at that speed.

No you disagreed with the fact that Dabura’s light speed kick goes far beyond what Sukuna has demonstrated power wise, which it does. Sukuna has never shown to have that level of durability before, hence why you’re trying to upscale him to Dabura in the first place.

Dabura demonstrating such speed and power with his light speed kick is demonstrative of him being far stronger than Sukuna, which was the whole “narrative” point of the discussion we were having. Dabura’s light speed feats are a narrative sweep for him because they’re so much more powerful than Sukuna’s feats.

IN THE SAME STATEMENT about naoya's binding vow, Kamo says his durability is not that impressive compared to Hanami normally even tho normally he is still faster than Hanami.

Yeah that just proves my point bro. Naoya as a special grade cursed spirit has to increase his own martial durability in order to withstand merely Mach 3 speeds. They have to be about as durable as Hanami, a character noted for their own high durability, just to survive Mach 3 speeds only.

Light speed is over 290,000x that fast. And as noted further affects you by making the air around you extremely hot and heavy.

In speed. Not in power because nothing ever said "Sukuna can't handle near light speeds".

Nope, in power too because light speed travel is significantly more powerful than anything Sukuna has demonstrated. That’s how that works, light speed requires significant power to it. And nothing ever said “Sukuna can handle near light speeds” either so they don’t have proof Sukuna can pull off what Dabura did.

...army? He would blow up HOUSES. PEOPLE'S HOMES, not an "army" it would indeed not make sense in-character for him to do that because he is not Sukuna, he would not build up houses just because. And I already proved why it aint an explosion you just loveee being ignorant.

People’s homes? People’s homes??? What are you talking about. The cursed spirits are all gathered in Tokyo which has since been abandoned for decades. The fight with Dabura is taking place in the destroyed ruins of Shinjuku which is also abandoned. What people’s homes are you referring to?? And I already explained to you why it is an explosion, you just loooove arguing with yourself.

Dawg no. That's because he is swinging again but this at Maru?? I love how you cut the next page. In the previous part Maru literally says he wasn't aiming at him but at the cursed spirit, here he's aiming at Maru, it is indeed not the same position.

Dawg, yes, we literally see that he didn’t move from the pages. You’re saying he swung his blade and conscience got into the exact same position as he was before and also the exact distance from Maru he was before all off panel?? Maru never says he’s aiming at the cursed spirits either. That’s just when he notices the spirits gathering.

The reason he went back to a swinging position is because he dashes at Maru right after. Not because he didn't fire a slash before.

Also we straight up see that the cursed spirits getting slashed panel are the same cursed spirits that were dashing at Maru and Tsurugi:

No it’s because he never fired a slash in the first place. Hence why he’s in the exact same position as before with no difference. Those cursed spirits are the ones that Yuji was also looking at and aiming to kill. Did you forget that we also have the page of Yuji right there staring at the swarm of cursed spirits as well?

It's just straight up obviously Tsurugi doing it. If you think it's an "explosion" (straight up wrong) How do you think the explosions are separated? Do you think yuji threw a dismantle, teleported kms away then threw another immediatly after to create two? Genuinely the entire panel itself is yuji's dismantle and tsurugi's swing together FOR A REASON. Look at the panel in question, you see him swinging.

It’s obvious he doesn’t because we can literally see he doesn’t move. If you look at the pages you can see the swarm of cursed spirits hovering above the roofs of the buildings. The dismantle was going over the roofs and hitting the cursed spirits. The explosions are the sections where the cursed spirits were gathered at, not the middle part.

Buddy. You SEE him swinging his arm BACKWARDS. Those motion lines are moving BACK. Look at him. You can see he’s in the SAME position as before the explosion went off. The sword placed over the exact same shoulder, the hands placed in the exact same positions. He literally didn’t move.

Because your argument is useless. I said I acknowledge that the attack loses strength, absolutely it does you're completley right on that. The point is, even using your example of hollow purple losing 80% of his output after 4km. Let's say Yuji's dismantle lost 99.5% of the output after those 10km. 0.5% of Yuji's power matching GRADE 3-4 CURSES IS NOT A FEAT ON SUKUNA'S LEVEL.

And you’re still not addressing the argument. You just uselessly complain about something you’re not even addressing. It wasn’t just grade 3-4 curses, it was an entire army of them. PROVE 0.5% OF SUKUNA’S POWER IS ENOUGH TO KILL THAT MANY CURSED SPIRITS. Until you’re capable of doing that, Yuji’s feat is far superior to anything Sukuna has done.

I hope you understand that grade 3-4 curses are on par (grade 3s) and BELOW (grade 4s) with Grade 4 sorcerers. Dawg even MIWA is superior to all those curses. You think 0.5% of Sukuna's power doesn't match someone below miwa?

Miwa level? Miwa level???? You wanna talk about no reading comprehension and you just said that dismantle by Yuji was MIWA level lmfaoo

That’s literally the worst level of reading comprehension I’ve seen. No, Miwa isn’t superior to all of those cursed spirits lmaoo.

Literally where is the reading comprehension at if you can’t comprehend the simple fact of Yuji annihilating an entire army of cursed spirits being far beyond anything Sukuna demonstrated. Like no, 0.5% of Sukuna’s power is not doing all that. You can’t prove it, your headcanon doesn’t cut it, sorry.

I just showed that 10% Output 16F Sukuna was still on par with CG Yuji and Awakened Maki, two heavy hitters of the verse. Genuinely what happened to reading comprehension.

I literally just proved to you how that wasn’t 10% Sukuna. You wanna talk about reading comprehension and narrative and yet you’re saying Yuji’s dismantle in Modulo ~ the 10% dismantle Yuji was taking a whole bombardment of. Uh huh sure buddy.

...? Does making you immortal make your latent potential bigger? Dude, please go read what it means. You don't GAIN more latent potential just because you can be older, what is this nonsense? You think Kenjaku has more latent potential than Sukuna and Gojo because he lived longer or something?

….******* YES dude. Absolutely it doesz what are you talking about??? Of course your potential grows when you’re immortal, you now have all the time in the world to improve yourself and not deteriorate from old age like everyone else.

Nice strawman by the way too. I didn’t say being immortal was the only thing that increased Yuji’s potential, but the fact that Uruame said Yuji’s potential was equal to Sukuna without knowing about Yuji having a second cursed technique and his immortality proves his potential is even greater than Sukuna, as those things naturally increase one’s potential and ability to grow stronger.

Didn't remember this, that's fair. Point is that Yuji can't feel Sukuna's power here, Sukuna didn't go all out in all of shibuya other than domain and that's obvious, especially in the manga where he just used 3 attacks on Mahoraga then immediatly went for domain. By Yuji's perspective, all he saw was Sukuna beating on Jogo level characters easily and someone he has no known power about (Mahoraga). Memories doesn't make you able to sense someone's power.

He would still be able to feel the power off of the memories that he has and he still directly witnessed the height of Sukuna’s power which was the domain expansion and the devastation that it caused and still made his statement regarding Yuta. He should have more than an accurate idea of Sukuna’s power based on the memories he has.

First off, how does this prove Gojo viewed his students as capable of growing stronger than him? Not saying you're wrong about that but your evidence is garbage.

If Gojo believes Yuji has the potential to be equal to him and Gojo also believes that Megumi has even greater potential to be stronger than even Yuji, then that’s in turn Gojo admitting that his student has the potential to grow stronger than he is.

Second off, again, how does having an immortal body and a new technique thats UNRELATED TO PHYSICAL STRENGTH... make you PHYSICALLY STRONGER? Like sure if you think Yuji can use blood manipulation in the same way choso and kamo did he could use it to block attacks stronger than him, why does that matter? The point is that Yuji's potential is to equal sukuna and be as good as Gojo of a sorcerer, which the narrative supports via him being confident he could beat a Sukuna level threat. That's IT. That's Yuji's narrative, he is physically on the same level as Sukuna due to his latent potential and has become an amazing sorcerer with multiple of his techniques to the point he could beat Sukuna level threats, nothing supports him being miles stronger or even stronger in general.

Blood manipulation literally can make you physically stronger. Flowing red scale stack, did you forget? And having an immortal body means that you can continue to GROW far longer than you normally could’ve due to not having to worry about AGE deteriorating your body, allowing for you to grow even stronger. Do you seriously not get such a simple concept? The point is that Yuji has the potential to surpass his teacher and grow even stronger than those that came before him. That’s IT. That’s Yuji’s narrative. Yuji is physically far superior to Sukuna due to having a superhuman body. The fact that he’s now immortal and can further grow even more now demonstrates Yuji’s potential to be able to grow leagues beyond Sukuna.

Refer to above, you're just wrong. You ignored my explanation on why it's curses dust btw. You even ignored the fact that there's literally no destruction so it can't be an explosion.

You’re incorrect again, I’ve already explained this to you. And I’m also providing to you that even saying that this is just a “dust explosion” of cursed spirits, that doesn’t take away from the greatness of this feat as killing off that many cursed spirits to produce such a large explosion from such a far away distance is a feat far beyond anything Sukuna has demonstrated. Which is an argument you still have yet to address.

I genuinely wanna ask you before I assume you said such an absurd thing. Are you trying to say that Yuta scales to FP Gojo and Sukuna's speed because he kept up with the recording of them fighting that Normal Humans can also watch due to how the crows work? Are you gonna say normal humans also scale to their speed? It was being live streamed country-wide you know and people made bets on it and everything. Spectator scaling is insanity what level of delusion have we gotten to.

No I was disputing the notion that they were only 10% 16f Sukuna level which Yuta being able to catch the small difference in domain expansions between Gojo and Sukuna would contradict. Also you don’t know what the normal humans saw in the video if Gojo vs Sukuna since you don’t see the full video or what the crows catch. Did the catch the moments where Gojo and Sukuna slowed down or were they able to keep track of their movements throughout that regular people could keep up with. You don’t know.

And how does Toji being faster than 3F Sukuna proves that Maki is faster than 10% 16F Sukuna lol? You know that finger scaling isn't linear right? Jogo is confirmed to be 5F Sukuna level yet was getting completely dogwalked by 15F Sukuna while holding back massively. Mind you, if you think finger scaling is linear you'd be saying that the gap between Mahito and Yuji (1 < 2) is bigger than the gap between Jogo and 15F Sukuna (0.25 < 0.75, if you use fingers as linear).

How does any of what you said contradict the finger scaling?? Yeah 15f Sukuna would naturally dominate Jogo even while holding back. 60% of 15f Sukuna would be close to twice Jogo’s strength, you understand that right? Also no in terms of Mahito as well because the statement is referring to a Yuji that’s a 10% in the fight, remember.

And Toji being faster than 3f Sukuna naturally means that Maki would be superior in speed to a 1.6f Sukuna, and yet Sukuna was able to keep up with both Yuji and Maki at once, which is a direct contradiction.

Anyways, have you forgotten that, again, I wonder why you ignored that, Ryu who was very much able to keep up with Yuta in speed and was even physically superior to SHINJUKU YUTA AND YUJI, got BLITZED AND ONE SHOTTED by a 16F Sukuna post his bath that returned his output back to normal? Before you even TRY and utter the words "but that was with cleave" may I remind you that the Gojo VS Sukuna straight up proves that Sukuna's physical, especially durability does indeed scale to his cleaves since Gojo was able to take a DOMAIN of being constantly cleaved, more than once, even in the same way Ryu took them? For even MORE evidence, Sukuna who was weaker than the one that couldn't inflict blows on Yuji and Yuta with dismantles (people weaker than Ryu who 16F Sukuna one shotted and blitzed) STILL BLITZED MAKI PHYSICALLY AND IMMEDIATLY TOOK HER OUT WHEN HE ACTUALLY TRIED.

You literally just proved that 10% 16f Sukuna wasn’t in reference to his stats. Sukuna blitzing Maki (someone with better reactions than Ryu) is a feat on 16f Sukuna level, so she was literally just keeping up with that very same Sukuna and even making him excited to fight her because of how strong she was. For even more evidence, despite still being able to damage people with 16f dismantle durability (remember Ryu could survive 16f Sukuna’s dismantles), Sukuna who was regaining his output (and had just had all his wounds healed after transforming) still couldn’t blitz and outpace Yuta despite him apparently being only 1.6f Sukuna level speed. Which directly proves them scaling much higher than 10% Sukuna stats.

There is literally no way you are trying to say that the Sukuna that Maki and CG Yuji fought was at 100% output physically unless you are completely and utterly delusional. It's obvious that the 10% was in reference to his physical output aswell.

There’s literally no way you’re trying to say 10% of 16f Sukuna is capable of tackling on both Maki and Yuji at once when it’s directly confirmed that Toji surpasses 3f Sukuna unless you’re completely and utterly delusional. It’s obvious the 10% was in reference to his cursed technique and not his stats.

What you’ve said doesn’t dispute lightning’s translation.

Damaging and being comparable to CG Yuji and Awakened Maki with 10% is a better feat than killing curses below miwa's level from a distance. I will stand on that yes. What's the issue? Maki is also stronger than Maru and was taking stuff from Tsurika who also did said explosion as I proved. So no it doesn't prove anything.

No it’s not lmao. Not even close, killing so many curses to produce such a large explosion is a far better feat than hurting CG Yuji and Maki lol. You don’t even have feats to prove they’re on that level, you’re just plugging up your ears and going “nuh uh” which isn’t an argument. And Tsurika didn’t do the explosion as I’ve already proved to you.

Your entire point falls apart because I didn't say he needed to record Dabura's lightspeed kick nor his near lightspeed movement. Because the whole point is that I'm claiming is that Sukuna and Gojo scale to Dabura's regular stats, not his light speed kick AP as that obviously gaps their physical stats by an unknown amount, the fact that the crows are able to record them clashing as seen in the image is already enough since it'd already allow them to see his power. They'd also see the destruction lightspeed and output that the kick did by the way unless you think everyone just closed their eyes and turned off their senses when he did that.

You were saying they recorded everything and now you say he didn’t need to record his light speed kick? And the whole point is that they don’t. The whole basis you’re using for them to scale to Dabura’s stats is based on a preliminary judgment from jujutsu society when they knew literally nothing about Dabura or his strength. And what would them seeing the destruction of the light speed kick cause anything? They don’t comment on the level of destruction one way or the other and were even sure what’s been shown to the regular people anyways. So the aftermath of the destruction might not be shown either, you don’t know.

He has higher attack speed with his CT yes, and him reacting would just come with his own acceleration. You can indeed not prove he is way faster normally. And I didn't strawman you, I asked you if that was your point cause if it isn't then I don't see WHAT it is, I even say "surely not" at the end. I don't understand your point here at all.

And durability and power as I’ve already proven as it comes with that level of speed. You can indeed prove he’s way durable and stronger based on his speed yes. But no you can indeed prove he’s way faster normally as there’s no proof Dabura’s reaction speeds accelerates with his own body. That would be headcanon.

First off that's something every sorcerer does on instinct and is something any sorcerer can do at will aswell, it's literally the basic cursed energy manipulation that Todo teaches Yuji man, it's how cursed energy always works as that's how you make it flow through your body, sorcerers constantly protect their own body instinctively due to cursed energy and what Yuji did is indeed the same application of Cursed Energy as he is focusing it on a part of his body but is being used in a different way (for offense).

Which isn't what Todo did against Mahito which was focus all of his cursed energy into one single spot in order to increase the durability of that spot. That’s not something every sorcerer is demonstrated to be able to do, what do you not get about that? Channeling cursed energy into your fist is just a basic form of attack and something that’s constantly done. Adding MORE cursed energy to a specific part of your body in order to increase that part’s durability BEYOND what it is normally is not something every sorcerer does.

You have yet to prove Dabura did this in the case of Mahoraga.

If his AP increased in that fist then his durability also did... you know that... right?. Mahito's whole plan against Yuji even relied on that since he knew that when Yuji does that against him he is basically lowering his own defenses since he is focusing it on his fist instead of his entire body as he should normally. If you think Dabura can't do that normally then it means you think he doesn't constantly reinforce his body with his own power at all time,, which at that point Mahoraga damaging him would be useless since it'd mean Dabura wasnt reinforcing himself with CE while that was hapenning so his CE would be superior to those physicals by alot. Pick your poison, eitherway Sukuna scales.

And genuinely what are you talking about. It was a 120% Output Purple. We SEE what a 100% output purple does to Sukuna and this was one that wasn't even targetting Sukuna as it was exploded without a target. Gojo's Black Flash literally sent Sukuna to sleep as I showed and this is an attack below Hollow Purple by alot if we are being serious, going even further, even with DOMAIN AMPLIFICATION, Sukuna could not nulify A WEAKER Red's damages to his body. And just to put the final nail on your coffin, Sukuna himself confirms that a regular Purple at the stage where it vaporized Mahoraga would prove fatal to him and that the reason he was able to get away from 120% hollow purple was because he used his reinforced arms. Genuinely man.


Answering this two together aswell.
Headcanon of doom and despair because I already told you how sorcerers work and nothing ever notes Dabura got stronger. As for the other part I already proved why it is something above them, but do you genuinely think the gap between Mahito's Black Flash and TODO is smaller than the gap between Mahoraga's sword and Dabura...? I'm all for Todo glaze but the fact you think Shibuya Todo would be able to take anything sort of 2.5x Mahito is... cmon.

And thanks for just ignoring EVERYTHING I said. "Mahoraga's durability isn't linea-" "MAHORAGA WAS BEATING DABURA SO IT MEANS THE DURABILITY OF HIS SWORD IS X!", "Mahoraga was also taking stuff from Gojo and cutting him, more than one time yet a regular purple vaporized him when a 120% purple was blocked by Sukuna's reinforced arms and a weakened Sukuna also survived said purple that vaporized Mahoraga" "BUT DABURA GOT STRONGER BECAUSE MAHORAGA'S SWORD BROKE" like man please. I already said why it doesn't matter.


Mahoraga did not and can not (since he'd just die lol) adapt to infinite pressure. He adapted to the technique itself (liquid metal) when it wasn't infinite pressure which made every application of it useless, and this needed a whole sequence where Sukuna took hits from yorozu and used techniques on her for it to happen you know? Mahoraga had not adapted to Dabura's physicals a single time before that and you think he immediatly adapted to him AFTER he got even thousands of times stronger (let me clarify that the thousands of times comes from the scaling that is being pushed right now. Sukuna and Gojo would barely scale to 1 megaton yet you're trying to say Dabura scales above Gigatons, that is indeed a over 1000x difference).


"Need Dabura downscale" and you tried to say he is so awful at Cursed energy manipulation that can't do something NOVICE SORCERERS can do
First off in the Yuji and Choso example, Yuji, just like Dabura, did not get stronger, he just started utilizing his cursed energy more efficiently, same way in the Fearsome womb arc, he always had that output but he was unable to use it and Gojo explains this to him, said emotions allowed him to utilize it not because of a buff but because emotions like that make you immediatly spit out your cursed energy as it is directly connected to them.
As for the entire rest of your message, all you said here is just straight up lies with no scans lol. When is it said he is pushing himself to new heights of strength to reach the warriors? That was not what Doula said and what Dabura thought about. Let's read the story accurately instead of making lies please:

"It's not that you don't want to fight, it's just that you never have fought before"
"Possessing strength does not make you a warrior"
"I see it now. To fight because you wish to. To not fight because you don't want to. Neither of those were really a fight."
"Not to fight because you don't want to... but because you must! Now that's what a real fight is! And those who are worthy of it are real warriors!"
"Forgive me... from now on I'll fight as I should have..."

The whole point isn't Dabura growing in strength, Dabura's issue wasn't simply lacking willingness to fight, he was simply someone who has never truly had a challenge, he had never truly fought like he should so he could never fully understand what being a warrior is. Doula is telling him that simply having strength/power does not make you a warrior, regardless of how strong you are as a warrior is defined by purpose and resolve rather than "stats". Choosing to fight or not to fight are both stuff driven by personal emotions so they aren't something that shows the true meaning of a warrior so they are never truly a fight. Here, for the first time, Dabura has to fight not out of willingness but out of necessity and because he must so he will finally have the meaning and accept the responsibility of being a real warrior, he will finally fight as he should have been all along. He is actually fighting properly now, a real fight. The breaking of the sword is the first showing of him fighting properly, he is back to countering Mahoraga instead of taking it by reinforcing his hand with cursed energy (alongside symbolically representing his realization), his hand even has smoke after it to show that and Dabura ackowledges that he will keep beating Mahoraga until his hands crumble away which wouldn't make sense if he just got thousands of times stronger to the point he could one shot Mahoraga with even a regular punch lol as he didn't know that Mahoraga could adapt that quickly to blunt force before. And I explained Dabura's lightspeed narrative acceleration with his limits since I helped with the OP so I will just copy it off there:

Spoiler: Dabura's Acceleration Narrative

He starts at near light-speed immediatly, right after INITIATING his "dance". However instead of stopping there as he normally would (as he could never reach light-speed), since Dabura is intending to break his limits, he continues to accelerate "more..!! more..!!" to reach the light (NOTE: he was already moving at high relativistic speeds here as seen by the effects and how he is running right alongside the light, you can see the effects were already high relativistic speed effects).

As he jumps, he approaches the speed of light (as in the context that he's just about to reach it) and we even get the parallel of "reaching the warriors" as he's about to reach speed of light with the previous dialogue of "reach the light" he did. He knows his body will give in cause he can't handle light-speed but he doesn't care he will reach the light, reaching the warriors. And we even get the representation of him fully reaching as he kicks Mahoraga at the exact same time his own light breaks the glass, as he just "shattered his own body's limits".

This isn't as simple as "he shattered his limits so he got stronger", he simply ignored his own limitations of not being able to hand light-speed and went full in, out of the necessity as a warrior, fullfilling the meaning of the warrior, getting out of his own comfort and personal need, into the necessity of a warrior.

His power did not change.


I already said why this argument doesn't make sense. There's nothing contradicting them man please.

 

[Rodriiogo]

And as I’ve explained promotional material and statements which further don’t even support the position aren’t strong basis for determining it.

Except your explanation was just cope. So I'm not counting it.

He did and that’s directly proven via him shattering Mahoraga’s blade with his bare hand. You can cope all you want with that but that’s just denial.

Already explained.

This whole sequence. In which they’re judging and determining Dabura’s strength based off his aura and presence alone.

That's not the jujutsu higher ups. So you have no evidence ok got it.

Except it doesn’t. And the narrative directly goes against Sukuna being comparable to Dabura. Being order and orders of magnitude faster does in fact make you much more of a threat. You’re acting like we’re not talking about an order of magnitude literally tens of thousands of times greater.

Except it doesn't.

Holy cope. To be significantly fast literally does require you to be significantly strong and durable as well. We literally see this with Naoya where he has to have a binding bow to increase his durability at just Mach 3 speeds in order to be able to withstand it. Dabura running at near light speeds generates an enormous amount of energy. This is an insane amount of cope to be denying the fact that running at such incredibly high speeds requires you to be very strong and durable in JJK. And Sukuna didn’t react to any light speed attack, he aim dodged a move from Kashimo. It’s even more blatantly confirmed by Gege that no one has moved at light speed in JJK cause it’s established that Dabura moving at sub-light speeds is “beyond the limits of mankind.”
So yeah Dabura being faster, to the point of light speed, does in fact mean he’s stronger considering the established fact of JJK that even Mach 3 speeds pose danger to special grade cursed spirits.
Yeah that just proves my point bro. Naoya as a special grade cursed spirit has to increase his own martial durability in order to withstand merely Mach 3 speeds. They have to be about as durable as Hanami, a character noted for their own high durability, just to survive Mach 3 speeds only.
Light speed is over 290,000x that fast. And as noted further affects you by making the air around you extremely hot and heavy.

1. I said I agree with that but I also said that being faster than X person doesn't mean you're more durable than said X person. Genuinely what do you mean, did you forget to bring your reading comprehension.
2. Aim dodged...? Dawg what. I swear to god go look at Sukuna's profile right now and the current rela feat and tell me with a straight face that's aim-dodging.
3. Dabura's near light speeds being beyond the limits of mankind doesn't mean Sukuna can't be Rela, it means he can't be rela+ (90%) - lightspeed which I swear to god, no one is claiming.
4. Did you just compare Naoya's durability (weaker than Hanami).... to Sukuna.

And if you are gonna try to use the mach 3 as a debunk to the verse make sure to agree that the entire verse caps at 9-B cause that would be the KE for mach 3... oh whats that? Its inconsistent with everything else!? Sukuna has way higher speed feats?!? Shocker!

I did and I already explained it to you. The whole light speed business cleanly cements that fact, but keep throwing a tantrum all you like about it.

Failed miserably again.

Wow nice job completely ignoring the argument I made in my comment in order to throw in a snide remark as your response, you’re very good at doing that, now would you like to actually try and address the point I made specifically about having high speed requires high durability as well in JJK?

I DIDN'T DISAGREE WITH THAT. MAN REAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD:

Except it does. And the narrative ner goes against Sukuna being comparable, being faster won't make you more of a threat every single time you know? Naoya was faster than Mahito and Hanami yet is be below them in power and as a threat. Naobito was way faster than Dagon and was straight up blitzing him. Still less of a threat and danger than Dagon. You're acting like being faster means you're strong in JJK, this ain't Dragon Ball man and if you look at the current feats for Sukuna on our page you're gonna notice something very funny yk! (Relativistic), and even if we ignore that, Sukuna blatantly reacts to a light speed attack. I'm NOT saying he's close to dabura in speed before you even try strawmanning me here by the way. Dabura is obviously above 90% SOL and his leg gets to lightspeed for the kick itself, I know this and I helped with the OP of the thread that talks about this, however, what I will say is that dabura being faster doesn't mean he is now stronger.

I literally agree that to higher speeds requires high durability. What I'm saying if you can comprehend BASIC ENGLISH is that simply being faster than someone does not prove you are more durable than them just because they never reached those speeds so using Dabura reaching those speeds as "proof he got stronger" doesn't work.

Yeah you’re just gishgalloping and not addressing the argument. Did you forget what you asked me? Here.
You asked me to show you Dabura washing Sukuna in power and then got all uppity that I said the light speed kick because that’s apparently just “speed.” No dude that’s demonstrative of having high power, far beyond what Sukuna has demonstrated in fact.
The light speed kick shows Dabura washing Sukuna in BOTH speed and power. Because speed and power is required to achieve light speed.

Because you clearly seemed to not understand how light speed travel is related to power. If you know how this stuff works, then actually know how it works bro.

No you disagreed with the fact that Dabura’s light speed kick goes far beyond what Sukuna has demonstrated power wise, which it does. Sukuna has never shown to have that level of durability before, hence why you’re trying to upscale him to Dabura in the first place.

Dabura demonstrating such speed and power with his light speed kick is demonstrative of him being far stronger than Sukuna, which was the whole “narrative” point of the discussion we were having. Dabura’s light speed feats are a narrative sweep for him because they’re so much more powerful than Sukuna’s feats.

Nope, in power too because light speed travel is significantly more powerful than anything Sukuna has demonstrated. That’s how that works, light speed requires significant power to it. And nothing ever said “Sukuna can handle near light speeds” either so they don’t have proof Sukuna can pull off what Dabura did.

Genuinely man:

Not really because the kick was something he wasn't able to do normally. This is something that Dabura changed mid-fight. He had never done a light-speed kick before because he had never reached lightspeed, that's why I'm saying, ITS FINE if you wanna say "Dabura beats them" or "Dabura has higher AP" with kick, whatever. Their durability is still comaprable.

Is it that hard to read? I already said I fully agree that the light speed kick could be higher AP/Power than Gojokuna, I don't mind that. What I'm denying is that physically he is above them. I didn't know I had to specify it considering I already agreed that the light speed kick is above them but you obviously can not track to save your life.

People’s homes? People’s homes??? What are you talking about. The cursed spirits are all gathered in Tokyo which has since been abandoned for decades. The fight with Dabura is taking place in the destroyed ruins of Shinjuku which is also abandoned. What people’s homes are you referring to?? And I already explained to you why it is an explosion, you just loooove arguing with yourself.

You did indeed not explain why it's an explosion.

Dawg, yes, we literally see that he didn’t move from the pages. You’re saying he swung his blade and conscience got into the exact same position as he was before and also the exact distance from Maru he was before all off panel?? Maru never says he’s aiming at the cursed spirits either. That’s just when he notices the spirits gathering.

He physically had to move since he gout out of the branches where he and maru were and is on the streets now by the way. You can not only not read but also not see it seems.

And I didn't say he coincidentally is on the same pose or something, I explained why he is on a simillar pose... did you read it? (No)

"Maru never says he's aiming at the cursed spirits"

<- Realises he's aiming somewhere else that isn't him

<- Turns around to see where he's aiming at

<- "Cursed spirits!"

No it’s because he never fired a slash in the first place. Hence why he’s in the exact same position as before with no difference. Those cursed spirits are the ones that Yuji was also looking at and aiming to kill. Did you forget that we also have the page of Yuji right there staring at the swarm of cursed spirits as well?

"He is in the same position so he couldn't fire"
*Explains why he is in a simillar position even after firing
"No he was because he didn't fire"
Nice proof!!! Your arguments are so good!!

And Yuji was looking at another horde. That's why there are TWO dust explosions.

It’s obvious he doesn’t because we can literally see he doesn’t move. If you look at the pages you can see the swarm of cursed spirits hovering above the roofs of the buildings. The dismantle was going over the roofs and hitting the cursed spirits. The explosions are the sections where the cursed spirits were gathered at, not the middle part.

Dawg isn't your WHOLE GODDAM CLAIM it being an explosion??? If it is a singular explosion two times and not dust clouds as I said then it completely and utterly doesn't matter because of what I said.

Buddy. You SEE him swinging his arm BACKWARDS. Those motion lines are moving BACK. Look at him. You can see he’s in the SAME position as before the explosion went off. The sword placed over the exact same shoulder, the hands placed in the exact same positions. He literally didn’t move.

I already explained this stop repeating the same point 5 times holy. And he is moving back to make the slash, they both do it together.

And you’re still not addressing the argument. You just uselessly complain about something you’re not even addressing. It wasn’t just grade 3-4 curses, it was an entire army of them. PROVE 0.5% OF SUKUNA’S POWER IS ENOUGH TO KILL THAT MANY CURSED SPIRITS. Until you’re capable of doing that, Yuji’s feat is far superior to anything Sukuna has done.

Dude what? You know how... PHYSICS works right? If the object that the force is being applied to is too weak, the attack won't lose any force when going through them so it being an army or not does NOT matter because it's like if you had a bunch of 200 paper all lined up grabbed by people and you went with your hand through all of the paper. Unless you think each of the curses's bodies is durable enough to have produce enough of a reaction to weaken it, it'd be like cutting through a bunch of paper. It doesn't lose energy because the body it's being applied to is extremely weak compared to it. It'd still lose energy because CE attacks lose output with range yes, but it being an army or not is useless here.

Miwa level? Miwa level???? You wanna talk about no reading comprehension and you just said that dismantle by Yuji was MIWA level lmfaoo
That’s literally the worst level of reading comprehension I’ve seen. No, Miwa isn’t superior to all of those cursed spirits lmaoo.

STRAAAWMAAAAANNNNNN OF DOOOOOMMM AND DESPAIIIRRRRRR
Re-readdddd:

Because your argument is useless. I said I acknowledge that the attack loses strength, absolutely it does you're completley right on that. The point is, even using your example of hollow purple losing 80% of his output after 4km. Let's say Yuji's dismantle lost 99.5% of the output after those 10km. 0.5% of Yuji's power matching GRADE 3-4 CURSES IS NOT A FEAT ON SUKUNA'S LEVEL. I hope you understand that grade 3-4 curses are on par (grade 3s) and BELOW (grade 4s) with Grade 4 sorcerers. Dawg even MIWA is superior to all those curses. You think 0.5% of Sukuna's power doesn't match someone below miwa? I just showed that 10% Output 16F Sukuna was still on par with CG Yuji and Awakened Maki, two heavy hitters of the verse. Genuinely what happened to reading comprehension.

If you actually take a look at the context of the point is that the curses are all individually weaker than Miwa because and as I said they are all grade 3-4 curses so they are grade 4 sorcerers and below level. Them being an army, via PHYSICS, won't matter here as I explained. I didn't say yuji's feat itself is Miwa's level but that the guys Yuji are hitting are below Miwa's level. It is still impressive because that'd be a very very very small percentage of his power that is killing those curses due to how distance works with ce output. But it is NOWHERE NEAR Sukuna level inverse wise.

I literally just proved to you how that wasn’t 10% Sukuna. You wanna talk about reading comprehension and narrative and yet you’re saying Yuji’s dismantle in Modulo ~ the 10% dismantle Yuji was taking a whole bombardment of. Uh huh sure buddy.

First off no you didn't prove anything
Second off...what?

….******* YES dude. Absolutely it doesz what are you talking about??? Of course your potential grows when you’re immortal, you now have all the time in the world to improve yourself and not deteriorate from old age like everyone else.

Nice strawman by the way too. I didn’t say being immortal was the only thing that increased Yuji’s potential, but the fact that Uruame said Yuji’s potential was equal to Sukuna without knowing about Yuji having a second cursed technique and his immortality proves his potential is even greater than Sukuna, as those things naturally increase one’s potential and ability to grow stronger.

ON LIFE OF KING'S SOUL you are not showing a single statement or even a tiny bit of evidence that turning immortal and/or having a new technique makes your physical latent potential higher.
Kenjaku has higher latent potential than Sukuna cause he has more techniques than him and is basically immortal guys.....

He would still be able to feel the power off of the memories that he has and he still directly witnessed the height of Sukuna’s power which was the domain expansion and the devastation that it caused and still made his statement regarding Yuta. He should have more than an accurate idea of Sukuna’s power based on the memories he has.

"Feel the power off the memories" brother how where when did someone ever do this?

If Gojo believes Yuji has the potential to be equal to him and Gojo also believes that Megumi has even greater potential to be stronger than even Yuji, then that’s in turn Gojo admitting that his student has the potential to grow stronger than he is.

What does that gotta do with Yuji though...? Brother what.

Blood manipulation literally can make you physically stronger. Flowing red scale stack, did you forget?

So not his base physical stats.

And having an immortal body means that you can continue to GROW far longer than you normally could’ve due to not having to worry about AGE deteriorating your body, allowing for you to grow even stronger. Do you seriously not get such a simple concept?

Incorrect and a body has limits you know, regardless of how immortal a body can be, it will still have limits, prove Yuji went beyond his latent potential (which relates to limits).

The point is that Yuji has the potential to surpass his teacher and grow even stronger than those that came before him. That’s IT. That’s Yuji’s narrative.

And you still haven't showed that.

Yuji is physically far superior to Sukuna due to having a superhuman body. The fact that he’s now immortal and can further grow even more now demonstrates Yuji’s potential to be able to grow leagues beyond Sukuna.

Refer to the above and you do know yuji's potential and superhuman body comes from being part of Sukuna in a way due to his twin brother's soul and having one of sukuna's fingers power sealed within him to ensure his strength as a vessel... right?

All yuji has over him is immortality which would allow him to better master techniques and such yes, but does not increase latent potential nor break his body's limits.

You’re incorrect again, I’ve already explained this to you. And I’m also providing to you that even saying that this is just a “dust explosion” of cursed spirits, that doesn’t take away from the greatness of this feat as killing off that many cursed spirits to produce such a large explosion from such a far away distance is a feat far beyond anything Sukuna has demonstrated. Which is an argument you still have yet to address.

Addressed above.

No I was disputing the notion that they were only 10% 16f Sukuna level which Yuta being able to catch the small difference in domain expansions between Gojo and Sukuna would contradict. Also you don’t know what the normal humans saw in the video if Gojo vs Sukuna since you don’t see the full video or what the crows catch. Did the catch the moments where Gojo and Sukuna slowed down or were they able to keep track of their movements throughout that regular people could keep up with. You don’t know.

Dawg yk a video doesnt change if ur faster... right..? Technology doesnt work like that lmao.

How does any of what you said contradict the finger scaling?? Yeah 15f Sukuna would naturally dominate Jogo even while holding back. 60% of 15f Sukuna would be close to twice Jogo’s strength, you understand that right? Also no in terms of Mahito as well because the statement is referring to a Yuji that’s a 10% in the fight, remember.

Yuji and Mahito were comparable to each other before he went ISBODK so the gap would remain the same since before mahito transformed they were both at 1.

You also missed the point. Let's go by your stupid linear scaling.
Mahito: Around 5F (same as Jogo)
A BLACK FLASH FROM MAHITO would already be 15F.

You think Todo... blocked 15F Sukuna level output even tho Kusakabe (strongest grade 1) couldnt block point blank dismantles and cleaves from a Sukuna weaker than his 15F version with simple domain regardless of how much protection he put even noting ce reinforcement as one of the protections.

And Toji being faster than 3f Sukuna naturally means that Maki would be superior in speed to a 1.6f Sukuna, and yet Sukuna was able to keep up with both Yuji and Maki at once, which is a direct contradiction.

Finger scaling is not linear.

You literally just proved that 10% 16f Sukuna wasn’t in reference to his stats. Sukuna blitzing Maki (someone with better reactions than Ryu) is a feat on 16f Sukuna level, so she was literally just keeping up with that very same Sukuna and even making him excited to fight her because of how strong she was.

Dawg. "blitzing maki is a a feat on 16F Sukuna level" yet your claim is that the Sukuna that Maki kept up with wasnt physically weakened. Man.

For even more evidence, despite still being able to damage people with 16f dismantle durability (remember Ryu could survive 16f Sukuna’s dismantles), Sukuna who was regaining his output (and had just had all his wounds healed after transforming) still couldn’t blitz and outpace Yuta despite him apparently being only 1.6f Sukuna level speed. Which directly proves them scaling much higher than 10% Sukuna stats.

This is pure larping.

Uraume explains that Sukuna's CE wavers depending on how interested he is so he didnt go all out even with the effects he has.

Maki got him more interested than everyone else and brung him to ecstacy so he actually started trying and immediatly blitzed her. This Sukuna is even weaker than the Sukuna that fought Yuta and Yuji since he just got pierced in the heart, lost a hand, and literally got soul punched by Yuji multiple times. Kusakabe literally proceeds to block dismantles at close range against this Sukuna despite the one that fought Yuji and Yuta doing this and having the statement I just showed you.

Read the manga man.

There’s literally no way you’re trying to say 10% of 16f Sukuna is capable of tackling on both Maki and Yuji at once when it’s directly confirmed that Toji surpasses 3f Sukuna unless you’re completely and utterly delusional. It’s obvious the 10% was in reference to his cursed technique and not his stats.

Yes I am because finger scaling is not linear I know this via reading the manga, you should try it.

What you’ve said doesn’t dispute lightning’s translation.

It does.

You were saying they recorded everything and now you say he didn’t need to record his light speed kick? And the whole point is that they don’t. The whole basis you’re using for them to scale to Dabura’s stats is based on a preliminary judgment from jujutsu society when they knew literally nothing about Dabura or his strength. And what would them seeing the destruction of the light speed kick cause anything? They don’t comment on the level of destruction one way or the other and were even sure what’s been shown to the regular people anyways. So the aftermath of the destruction might not be shown either, you don’t know.

I didn’t say Ui-Ui stopped recording I said there can be parts that he’s simply unable to record such as Dabura’s light speed kick due to how fast it was.

Well now you did cause the fight kept going after the kick. Why did he stop recording and the destruction wasn't showed. Regardless, read above I never claimed they scale to the kick.

Which isn't what Todo did against Mahito which was focus all of his cursed energy into one single spot in order to increase the durability of that spot. That’s not something every sorcerer is demonstrated to be able to do, what do you not get about that? Channeling cursed energy into your fist is just a basic form of attack and something that’s constantly done. Adding MORE cursed energy to a specific part of your body in order to increase that part’s durability BEYOND what it is normally is not something every sorcerer does.

Did I say Dabura needs to focus all his cursed energy to break the sword (no). Simply reinforcing it enough, would be enough. And read the rest of the comment before talking, every sorcerer can indeed do that I proved that in the scans man.

You have yet to prove Dabura did this in the case of Mahoraga.

Read the rest of the comment before talking.

--
Waiting for the rest of your mediocre response.

 

[Rodriiogo]

Genuinely I dont know WHERE you read JJK. But it surely wasn't the right one. You are gonna reach jupiter with your streches before actually making a good point.

We reached the point of:
- Dabura sucks at CE Manip somehow and cant do the most basic sorcerer level stuff such as simple CE reinforcement or focusing his cursed energy on a specific part of his body (Same guy who was strong since he was a kid and by simply detecting Mahoraga's positive energy learned how to RCT despite never doing it before, yet ig he forgot to check Mahoraga outputting CE on specific parts of his body as 15F Sukuna says he does and no one in Simuria was even basic sorcerer level in CE Manip since Dabura neeever found out you can do that)
- Killing a bunch of individually below Miwa level curses from a long distance is more impressive than keeping up, harming etc CG yuji and Awakened Maki together with 10% of your power only even whem not at your full power (Still at 16F) just because "the curses were together" (as if putting curses near each other changes their durability if they are litetal ants compared to yuji's ap even in shinjuku);
- Yuji actually just exploded everything and that was big explosions not simply Dust from curses, ignore Tsurika, he didnt do anything because I wanna ignore context and say that since he went back to the same position it means he never swung at all (I will ignore the fact he was simply taking another charging position to slash Maru). And yea there was no destruction there right after but you gotta believe me!! It proves yuji top 1!!! The destruction just didnt register due to how strong he is!!
- Maki is 16F Sukuna level and Dismantles are somehow stronger than sukuna by over 90% despite cleaves one shotting someone who took dismantles (Ryu) while not being able to one shot someone on Sukuna's level physically even in Shrine (Gojo);
- Stabbed in the heart, No hand, just fought gojo, punched by Yuji's soul punches somehow only lost 25% of his power since hes "still 16F sukuna level via blitzing Maki" and finger scaling is "linear";
- Resolve to fight and simply good writing and development for a character = he got 1000x stronger and got an "awakened" state. We JJK fans cant simply get a character moment, we need strength.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Really don't care about Sukuna vs Dabura debate so I hope I don't get dragged into that.

But just got interested in Tsurika feat and took a look at that once again. On that I think @Maitreya12 arguments makes more sense.

TCB messed up the translation it's not where he is aiming. It's talking about what is he gonna do with the cursed tool more like Maru wondering what's its abilities or purpose.

Also Maru background we see Two Big swarm of Cursed spirits coming out in seperate two locations. Saying Tsurugi hit only one side doesn't make sense if people are trying to argue he hit one while Yuji hit the other.

Also Taking a closer look both panel shows a clean slash type of attack brushing through cursed spirits similar to How Dismantle does. Dismantle was travelling above the building. Not any cursed any blast crushing them.

I think is fair to say Yuji's dismantle merked both Swarms of Cursed spirits rather than Tsurugi slashing one of the swarms besides if he fired a big beam like that Maru didn't even got a scratch wouldn't even make sense.

After taking a look it does seem like moment lines are representing him moving the sword backwards not forward.

We do have Yuta using CE blasts from his sword which expands not travel in a straight line like dismantle does when slashed

 

[KnightDark_990]

Randomly sending a real one:
Narrative statements > exaggerated feats/scenes that were not the author's intention.

Many people say that exaggerated scene feats are worth more than statements, and when statements and visual feats contradict each other, they always invalidate the statements (mostly just for wanking) due to the fact that visual feats are "What was shown within the story." But they completely ignore that the difference is that statements were written entirely intentionally by the author at the character levels, while exaggerated scenes that contradict the statements are just completely unintentional mistakes by the authors, which they made without thinking about the levels or concepts of their characters and just to look cool. From there, the difference between level statements and level visual feats is noticeable - one was done entirely intentionally by the author of their work while the other was just an unintentional mistake. So with all this, which one is valid? Clearly the author's intention (narrative statements).

So much so that I will use an analogy of this that is not powerscaling feats. Character heights:
There are characters whose heights are officially stated by their authors, but there are many scenes where their height does not correspond to the statement. An example I know: Sanemi from Demon Slayer is officially 1.78-1.79 meters tall, but there are scenes where he appears to be MUCH TALLER than Tanjiro (1.65 meters), literally scenes where he appears to be at least 1.85 meters tall.

Therefore, according to the logic of people (wanks) of powerscaling, Sanemi's official height is not the author's statement, but rather the scene (error) in question, simply due to the argument "it visually exists in the story".

My conclusion: when visual effects and statements contradict each other, the author's intention is valid, not visual errors/exaggerations.

 

[Rodriiogo]

Really don't care about Sukuna vs Dabura debate so I hope I don't get dragged into that.

But just got interested in Tsurika feat and took a look at that once again. On that I think @Maitreya12 arguments makes more sense.

TCB messed up the translation it's not where he is aiming. It's talking about what is he gonna do with the cursed tool more like Maru wondering what's its abilities or purpose.

Also Maru background we see Two Big swarm of Cursed spirits coming out in seperate two locations. Saying Tsurugi hit only one side doesn't make sense if people are trying to argue he hit one while Yuji hit the other.

Also Taking a closer look both panel shows a clean slash type of attack brushing through cursed spirits similar to How Dismantle does. Dismantle was travelling above the building. Not any cursed any blast crushing them.

I think is fair to say Yuji's dismantle merked both Swarms of Cursed spirits rather than Tsurugi slashing one of the swarms besides if he fired a big beam like that Maru didn't even got a scratch wouldn't even make sense.

After taking a look it does seem like moment lines are representing him moving the sword backwards not forward.

We do have Yuta using CE blasts from his sword which expands not travel in a straight line like dismantle does when slashed

Wont talk about the rest right now cause I left pc and alr kinda answered the rest, but TCB did indeed NOT mess up:

"何を狙っている？"
狙って (neratte) literally means aiming/to aim at.
The translation is indeed smth around the lines of "What are you/is he aiming at?"

 

[BiggestOpp]

yap

I don’t care about all of this yap but the two the two humps of curses we saw with Maru is not the two separate groups you dumbass.
1. The two explosions are literally kilometers apart, that hump doesn’t depict that distance.
2. Maru and Tsurugi are fighting upside down in the air, above the city. Those “two” swarm of curses Maru saw were spawning on the platform he made, mid air. Meaning one of them couldn’t have been the group Yuji saw.
3. You gotta stop the cope man. Rika moving like that.

 

[BiggestOpp]

Wont talk about the rest right now cause I left pc and alr kinda answered the rest, but TCB did indeed NOT mess up:

"何を狙っている？"
狙って (neratte) literally means aiming/to aim at.
The translation is indeed smth around the lines of "What are you/is he aiming at?"

Rare Rodriiogo W

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Wont talk about the rest right now cause I left pc and alr kinda answered the rest, but TCB did indeed NOT mess up:

"何を狙っている？"
狙って (neratte) literally means aiming/to aim at.
The translation is indeed smth around the lines of "What are you/is he aiming at?"

The problem is he didn't even taken a stance how does Maru knows he is aiming at something other him? It's more logical to say it's not talking about literal aim rather than it's talking about purpose of that.

 

[Rodriiogo]

Rare Rodriiogo W

Dawg Ive been saying Tsurika did it the entire discussion with Maitreya cause one his main args relies on it (massive Yuju Glaze) and you said Ive been spitting nonsense the entire time, random switch up

The problem is he didn't even taken a stance how does Maru knows he is aiming at something other him? It's more logical to say it's not talking about literal aim rather than it's talking about purpose of that.

He is aiming already, thats one way of aiming (sword forward positioned directly 90° to where hes aiming then push back and forward which is what he does), he just aint striking a cool pose in that moment since unlike what he does against maru right after, here hes simply swinging for a ranged slash from far away. In the next swing against maru he is DASHING at him so he has to position his body aswell not just the sword.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

He is aiming already, thats one way of aiming (sword forward positioned directly 90° to where hes aiming then push back and forward which is what he does), he just aint striking a cool pose in that moment since unlike what he does against maru right after, here hes simply swinging for a ranged slash from far away. In the next swing against maru he is DASHING at him so he has to position his body aswell not just the sword.

It's not though you can see only one of his feet touched the ground. He didn't aimed at anything he was positioning and it also doesn't make sense for Rika and Tsurugi to perceive Cursed spirits faster than Maru. Not only that Maru is in between Cursed spirit and Tsurika. So that 90⁰ position you are talking about doesn't make sense if Maru thinks he is aiming at something else when he is in the way.

 

[Arkenis]

Randomly sending a real one:
Narrative statements > exaggerated feats/scenes that were not the author's intention.

Many people say that exaggerated scene feats are worth more than statements, and when statements and visual feats contradict each other, they always invalidate the statements (mostly just for wanking) due to the fact that visual feats are "What was shown within the story." But they completely ignore that the difference is that statements were written entirely intentionally by the author at the character levels, while exaggerated scenes that contradict the statements are just completely unintentional mistakes by the authors, which they made without thinking about the levels or concepts of their characters and just to look cool. From there, the difference between level statements and level visual feats is noticeable - one was done entirely intentionally by the author of their work while the other was just an unintentional mistake. So with all this, which one is valid? Clearly the author's intention (narrative statements).

So much so that I will use an analogy of this that is not powerscaling feats. Character heights:
There are characters whose heights are officially stated by their authors, but there are many scenes where their height does not correspond to the statement. An example I know: Sanemi from Demon Slayer is officially 1.78-1.79 meters tall, but there are scenes where he appears to be MUCH TALLER than Tanjiro (1.65 meters), literally scenes where he appears to be at least 1.85 meters tall.

Therefore, according to the logic of people (wanks) of powerscaling, Sanemi's official height is not the author's statement, but rather the scene (error) in question, simply due to the argument "it visually exists in the story".

My conclusion: when visual effects and statements contradict each other, the author's intention is valid, not visual errors/exaggerations.

 

[Maitreya12]

Except your explanation was just cope. So I'm not counting it.

Ah so you have no rebuttal. Concession accepted.

Already explained.

Already explained.

That's not the jujutsu higher ups. So you have no evidence ok got it.

That literally would be. So you have no rebuttal. Okay got it.

Except it doesn't.

Except it does.

1. I said I agree with that but I also said that being faster than X person doesn't mean you're more durable than said X person. Genuinely what do you mean, did you forget to bring your reading comprehension.

I already explained to you that to be this fast requires a level of durability and that level of durability far exceeds what Sukuna has demonstrated. Actually learn how to read properly before going off on reading comprehension.

1. Aim dodged...? Dawg what. I swear to god go look at Sukuna's profile right now and the current rela feat and tell me with a straight face that's aim-dodging.

Yeah that’s aim dodging. Unless you’re talking about the chanting one in which that’s not a light speed beam being fired, as evident by the fact that Sukuna is chanting in the midst of it firing lmao.

1. Dabura's near light speeds being beyond the limits of mankind doesn't mean Sukuna can't be Rela, it means he can't be rela+ (90%) - lightspeed which I swear to god, no one is claiming.

Yeah it does because it means it’s beyond what Sukuna has achieved. And no it means going sub-light speed is beyond the means of humanity which can range from 1-99% sol.

1. Did you just compare Naoya's durability (weaker than Hanami).... to Sukuna.

Did you just try to compare Mach 3 speeds with light speed. Lmao.

And if you are gonna try to use the mach 3 as a debunk to the verse make sure to agree that the entire verse caps at 9-B cause that would be the KE for mach 3... oh whats that? It’s inconsistent with everything else!? Shocker!

Except kinetic energy isn’t the only thing you have to worry about when traveling at Mach 3 speeds. Ever hear of this little thing called friction? Wow physics can impact things widely, shocker!!

Failed miserably again.

Cope in denial again.

I DIDN'T DISAGREE WITH THAT. MAN REAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD:

EXCEPT YOU DID MAN REAAAAAAAAAAD. You literally got upset that I brought up Dabura’s light speed kick for POWER because you said it was jus SPEED.

REAAAAAAAAAAAD.

I literally agree that to higher speeds requires high durability. What I'm saying if you can comprehend BASIC ENGLISH is that simply being faster than someone does not prove you are more durable than them just because they never reached those speeds so using Dabura reaching those speeds as "proof he got stronger" doesn't work.

If you stopped acting like a CHILD for a moment and actually READ you’d know I’m not saying “being faster means you’re more durable” I’m saying “Dabura

Genuinely man:

Is it that hard to read? I already said I fully agree that the light speed kick could be higher AP/Power than Gojokuna, I don't mind that. What I'm denying is that physically he is above them. I didn't know I had to specify it considering I already agreed that the light speed kick is above them but you obviously can not track to save your life.

Is it that hard to read for you. Because when I brought up the light speed kick to show Dabura washes Sukuna in power. What did you say again? Of course let me remind you because you apparently can’t keep track of even the things you say, let alone this conversation:

Here you go.

What’s with that reaction, I thought you said you understood the light speed kick being above them, why are you reacting to me bringing up the light speed kick having POWER to just saying its SPEED huh? Are you following along, are you able to keep track? Because clearly you don’t even know the things you’re saying.

You did indeed not explain why it's an explosion.

I did and I also granted you it being a dust explosion of cursed spirits. But you still failed to address the argument of why the feat was so significant. Did you read (no).

He physically had to move since he gout out of the branches where he and maru were and is on the streets now by the way. You can not only not read but also not see it seems.

They’re not on the streets, they’re in the same area they were in. We can literally see the same plants by Maru that were growing towards Tsurika there previously. Looks like you happen to be blind too it seems.

And I didn't say he coincidentally is on the same pose or something, I explained why he is on a simillar pose... did you read it? (No)

Yeah and I explained why what you said was nonsensical. Did you happen to read (No).

"Maru never says he's aiming at the cursed spirits"

<- Realises he's aiming somewhere else that isn't him

<- Turns around to see where he's aiming at

<- "Cursed spirits!"

Nice job using fan translations instead of official ones. The official ones have Maru saying “what’s he doing” and then the cursed spirits come, he doesn’t mention anything about aim.

I know poor reading comprehension is a dangerous thing to have. You should do something about it.

"He is in the same position so he couldn't fire"
*Explains why he is in a simillar position even after firing
"No he was because he didn't fire"
Nice proof!!! Your arguments are so good!!

“He did the second explosion”
*Explains why he didn’t do the second explosion
“No it’s because he actually did all this movement off screen”
Nice proof!! Such a good argument huh!!

And Yuji was looking at another horde. That's why there are TWO dust explosions.

No Yuji can be looking at both hordes. They’re in the same vicinity of where he’s looking.

Dawg isn't your WHOLE GODDAM CLAIM it being an explosion??? If it is a singular explosion two times and not dust clouds as I said then it completely and utterly doesn't matter because of what I said.

No it’s not. The fact that you think it is proves you haven’t been reading at all. The claim was that the feat is still astronomically impressive because producing that large of a dust cloud from killing that many cursed spirits from so far away is an incredibly high output feat by jujutsu standards. Far beyond what Sukuna has demonstrated.

I already explained this stop repeating the same point 5 times holy. And he is moving back to make the slash, they both do it together.

And I already explained to you why you’re incorrect. Stop repeating your same talking points so many times and actually address the argument before you. And no he didn’t move at all. We can see he didn’t move. He didn’t happen to move back into the EXACT same position by coincidence. Him attacking Maru doesn’t mean he has to be in the EXACT same position.

Dude what? You know how... PHYSICS works right? If the object that the force is being applied to is too weak, the attack won't lose any force when going through them so it being an army or not does NOT matter because it's like if you had a bunch of 200 paper all lined up grabbed by people and you went with your hand through all of the paper. Unless you think each of the curses's bodies is durable enough to have produce enough of a reaction to weaken it, it'd be like cutting through a bunch of paper. It doesn't lose energy because the body it's being applied to is extremely weak compared to it. It'd still lose energy because CE attacks lose output with range yes, but it being an army or not is useless here.

Wow…the analogy you gave was so mind bogglingly ridiculous it’s astounding you don’t see the flaws in what you said. It’s incredible really.

It’s more like if you fired a gun. line up one piece of paper in front of a gun, the bullet goes through easy, yes? Okay no line up 50 textbooks in front of the gun, do you still think the bullet’s gonna go through? I’ll save you the search and tell you that the answer is no. You see how having more of something matters?

Like my god dude, grab 1 piece of paper and rip it in half. Now grab an entire stack of computer paper and try to rip it in half, you think you’ll be able to do it? You seriously don’t get how having more of something matters when trying to go through it?

“Do you know how physics works” well clearly you don’t because you don’t seem to understand how having a large number of something reduces the energy of something trying to pass through them.

STRAAAWMAAAAANNNNNN OF DOOOOOMMM AND DESPAIIIRRRRRR
Re-readdddd:

No that’s exactly why you said. read.

Dawg even MIWA is superior to all those curses.

You said all those curses, not individually. Don’t try to lie your way out of a hilariously wrong statement.

If you actually take a look at the context of the point is that the curses are all individually weaker than Miwa because and as I said they are all grade 3-4 curses so they are grade 4 sorceres and below level. Them being an army, via PHYSICS, won't matter here as I explained. I didn't say yuji's feat itself is Miwa's level but that the guys Yuji are hitting are below Miwa's level. It is still impressive because that'd be a very very very small percentage of his power that is killing those curses due to how distance works with ce output. But it is NOWHERE NEAR Sukuna level inverse wise.

You clearly don’t understand physics if you don’t get how going through an army of something requires substantially greater amounts of energy.

How come a person can’t tear 1000 pieces of paper in half with their bare hands at once?? It’s just paper you can tear one of them in half no problem. Don’t you understand physics, having a whole stack of them means nothing it’s the same /s.

First off no you didn't prove anything
Second off...what?

First off yes I did second off what are you asking about.

ON LIFE OF KING'S SOUL you are not showing a single statement or even a tiny bit of evidence that turning immortal and/or having a new technique makes your physical latent potential higher.

I’ve already explained and proven to you how being immortal and having a new technique makes your physical and latent potential much greater. You’re just coping and in denial that you’re unable to respond to the argument.

Like bro, just think. Do you not understand how having another technique makes your potential greater?? This technique also directly affects your physicals too by the way.

Kenjaku has higher latent potential than Sukuna cause he has more techniques than him and is basically immortal guys.....

Nice strawman seems to be a consistent part of your argument. I’ll just quote the section again where I directly address this point and show how you once again lied about my argument to strawman me.

“Nice strawman by the way too. I didn’t say being immortal was the only thing that increased Yuji’s potential, but the fact that Uruame said Yuji’s potential was equal to Sukuna without knowing about Yuji having a second cursed technique and his immortality proves his potential is even greater than Sukuna, as those things naturally increase one’s potential and ability to grow stronger.”

"Feel the power off the memories" brother how where when did someone ever do this?

Wha do you mean. Yuji can literally see and feel the experiences that transpired because they were in his body and are in his memories.

What does that gotta do with Yuji though...? Brother what.

That Gojo believes his students can surpass him?

So not his base physical stats.

It’s still his potential though correct?

Incorrect and a body has limits you know, regardless of how immortal a body can be, it will still have limits, prove Yuji went beyond his latent potential (which relates to limits).

No it’s fully correct and you understand Yuji’s body is superhuman by the way correct? And do you know what a defining limit of the body is? Age, which is something that doesn’t affect Yuji.

And you still haven't showed that.

I have, you can cope all you want about it though.

Refer to the above and you do know yuji's potential and superhuman body comes from being part of Sukuna in a way due to his twin brother's soul and having one of sukuna's fingers power sealed within him to ensure his strength as a vessel... right?

No they come from Kenjaku’s experiments on Yuji. But Yuji’s body is superhuman compared to Sukuna’s body physical wise, you understand that right? Sukuna’s fingers has properties like cursed energy in it which made Yuji’s body superhumanly strong naturally, Sukuna’s body doesn’t have anything like that. He’s still basically a larger human with two extra arms strength wise.

All yuji has over him is immortality which would allow him to better master techniqus and such yes, but does not increase latent potential nor break his body's limits.

And a superhuman body which Sukuna doesn’t have. And no being immortal would directly increase his latent potential and allow for his body to surpass its limits because it allows for his body to train for longer and grow stronger than it normally could have due to the body’s natural degradation and also allows for Yuji to further increase his strength by better improving on his techniques.

Addressed above.


Dawg yk a video doesnt change if ur faster... right..? Technology doesnt work like that lmao.

What are you talking about. A video might be able to keep up during slower moments of the fight but struggle to catch the higher paced moments, what’s so hard to get about that?

Yuji and Mahito were comparable to each other before he went ISBODK so the gap would remain the same since before mahito transformed they were both at 1.

What??? Genuinely I have no idea what you’re saying here as it doesn’t make any sense.

You also missed the point. Let's go by your stupid linear scaling.
Mahito: Around 5F (same as Jogo)
A BLACK FLASH FROM MAHITO would already be 15F.

You deadass can’t even do math right. 5 x 2.5 is 12.5 not 15 lmao. And Mahito was not Jogo level when he black flashed Todo, maybe after ISBODK sure, but not prior. So it’d be more like 3f Sukuna level, in which case it would be equivalent to 7.5f Sukuna.

Also, Mahito confirmed he was only at about 40% strength as well at the time (actually even less at that point after the continued fighting), so his black flash would be even WEAKER an would be more like 5f Sukuna level at best.

Did you forget literally everything about the fight.

You think Todo... blocked 15F Sukuna level output even tho Kusakabe (strongest grade 1) couldnt block point blank dismantles and cleaves from a Sukuna weaker than his 15F version with simple domain regardless of how much protection he put even noting ce reinforcement as one of the protections.

Dismantles are stronger than regular punches from Sukuna. Also Kusakabe straight up does block Sukuna’s dismantles before as well. And those dismantles in the images you showed were also amped by handsigns iirc too.

But as I’ve established, you’re scaling is entirely stupid because you A didn’t do math right and B forgot about the context of the fight and Mahito’s damaged state before factoring in how strong the attack would be.

Also this required Todo to focus all of his CE into a single point to survive so it’s not even that unrealistic either.

Finger scaling is not linear.

You just saying things doesn’t make it true.

Dawg. "blitzing maki is a a feat on 16F Sukuna level" yet your claim is that the Sukuna that Maki kept up with wasnt physically weakened. Man.

Maki was also keeping up with that same Sukuna that just blitzed her as well. Also even that Sukuna was able to fend off both Yuji and Maki at the same time with one hand each which is a directly contradiction to the established fact of Toji being faster than 3f Sukuna if 16f Sukuna was only at 10% stats.

This is pure larping.

Uraume explains that Sukuna's CE wavers depending on how interested he is so he didnt go all out even with the effects he has.

Maki got him more interested than everyone else and brung him to ecstacy so he actually started trying and immediatly blitzed her. This Sukuna is even weaker than the Sukuna that fought Yuta and Yuji since he just got pierced in the heart, lost a hand, and literally got soul punched by Yuji multiple times. Kusakabe literally proceeds to block dismantles at close range against this Sukuna despite the one that fought Yuji and Yuta doing this and having the statement I just showed you.

You know this very interaction directly proves that Maki wasn’t 10% of 16f Sukuna’s stats right? Because Maki got him interested due to her strength and prowess as a fighter which doesn’t make sense if she’s only 1.6f Sukuna level stat wise. The fact that Sukuna went into a state of ecstasy from fighting Maki directly showcases Sukuna literally trying in the fight, which he wouldn’t need to do if she was only 10% of 16f Sukuna strong. Also the dismantles Kusakabe later blocked were without hand signs and done without moving either making them weaker.

Read the manga man.

You should really take your own advice.

Yes I am because finger scaling is not linaer I know this via reading the manga, you should try it.

Plugging up your ears and saying “lalalalala” isn’t an argument. It’s just you being in denial.

It does.

It doesn’t.

Well now you did cause the fight kept going after the kick. Why did he stop recording and the destruction wasn't showed. Regardless. read above I never claimed they scale to the kick.

No I didn’t that’s just you straw manning me again.I didn’t say he stopped recording, just that the description might not be shown. And you clearly took issue with the fact of me bringing up Dabura’s light speed kick to show a significant power difference prior.

Did I say Dabura needs to focus all his cursed energy to break the sword (no). Simply reinforcing it enough, would be enough. And read the rest of the comment before talking, every sorcerer can indeed do that I proved that in the scans man.

And you have still yet to prove Dabura did this. Prove Dabura channeled more energy into his fist just to break Mahoraga’s sword. You can’t because it’s pure headcanon from you. Dabura’s body is already reinforced and yet Mahoraga was still able to cut him,

Read the rest of the comment before talking.

Uh huh so no argument presented. Gotcha.

--
Waiting for the rest of your mediocre response.

Funny thing was that I hit post before I finished responding to the comment. And then when I was editing it, the page reloaded and I lost all my edited work, so I’ll get to the other part eventually.

Let’s see what other nonsense slop you respond with next.

 

[Maitreya12]

I also want to bring up that Tsurika just simply jumping over to attack Maru caused a small impact on the floor, and yet Tsurika launching this massive attack capable of killing so many cursed spirits does literally nothing to the floor beneath him?

Also it doesn’t make sense how Tsurika could do that as his first slash, but then the second slash is suddenly “too shallow” for some reason?? It’s just inconsistent, there’s too many inconsistencies for me to say the other explosion was from Tsurika.

 

[Maitreya12]

It’s inconsistent that Tsurika is somehow in the exact same position as before the explosion went off despite apparently throwing a ginormous slash.

It’s inconsistent that Tsurika’s second slash would be “shallow” when their first slash was capable of doing that.

It’s inconsistent that Tsurika would go for the cursed spirits all the way behind Maru instead of just….attacking Maru with that giant powerful strike.

It’s just inconsistent all around.

 

[Maitreya12]

Also the translations I saw of Maru’s comment was “what are you after?” So yeah that could also be taken like “what are you doing?” Can be accurate to that phrasing.

なに）
何を狙っている

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[Arkenis]

Bro saw the "first" slash and thought a rock would help against a second one? Is he stupid?

 

[Rogue_Forge]

I know y'all are arguing and whatever

but I made a crt

Jujutsu Kaisen: Quick Kenjaku upgrade CRT

We currently have it accepted that a cursed technique reversal is at least twice the strength of a characters normal cursed technique due to the reversal requiring double the Cursed Energy, this is stated directly in the manga and we already use it in profiles (see Satoru Gojo) One of...

vsbattles.com

pls vote

 

[BiggestOpp]

I know y'all are arguing and whatever

but I made a crt

Jujutsu Kaisen: Quick Kenjaku upgrade CRT

We currently have it accepted that a cursed technique reversal is at least twice the strength of a characters normal cursed technique due to the reversal requiring double the Cursed Energy, this is stated directly in the manga and we already use it in profiles (see Satoru Gojo) One of...

vsbattles.com

pls vote

There’s too many crt’s open lil bro

 

[Rogue_Forge]

There’s too many crt’s open lil bro

There's like, 2 that are actually relavent, and I got permission to make mine

 

[BiggestOpp]

There's like, 2 that are actually relavent, and I got permission to make mine

Good looks

 

[AguilaR202]

Like wouldn’t Kenjaku scale physically to resisting the pull of a black hole briefly, even if antigravity is what allowed him to escape it still needs to exceed the initial pulling force over his body which scales to the distance, strictly speaking anti gravity is not hax its negative values of acceleration so it has at the very least match the gravitational pull at a given distance

 

[AthelChan]

 

[AguilaR202]

I’m telling y’all sleeping on the black hole feat, at 1m distance from the initial blackhole radius created by yuki requires low megatons to move even 1 meter back

 

[BiggestOpp]

I’m telling y’all sleeping on the black hole feat, at 1m distance from the initial blackhole radius created by yuki requires low megatons to move even 1 meter back

Make a crt and see what happens brotato

 

[AguilaR202]

Make a crt and see what happens brotato

Needs a calc first lmao

 

[BiggestOpp]

Needs a calc first lmao

Make a calc then and see what happens

 

[Qurbonboev]

Needs a calc first lmao

Using what formula?

 

[AguilaR202]

Using what formula?

Based on search results acceleration near a blackhole at a given distance is a=GM/r2
G is gravitational constant, M is blackhole mass ( which needs to be calced based on swarzchild radius ) and r is radius.

Work = Joules = Newtons*Distance
Newtons is mass times acceleration

Any significant movement done that close to a blackhole requires a lot of joules.

Since kenjakus technique is literally antigravity he needs to offset the acceleration by the same opposite amount and even more since he had to move a distance to not get caught in the expanding radius of it.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Based on search results acceleration near a blackhole at a given distance is a=GM/r2

Why are you using Newtonian formula?
More about this here