Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[Anonymous_Learner]

People seem to forget 15F performance in shibuya is just him aurafarming and playing with randoms, he wasn't serious one bit.
Jogo? Stated to be himself that he'd be playing with bro. Maho? Could've insta won if he cleaved him from the gate since he's a 3F sukuna victim untamed and no death binding vow with sukuna stating he just wants a taste of his power.

 

[BiggestOpp]

*Sukuna actually started trying a little more

Ryu has the highest output of all cg players. He’s the only sorcerer that output stays the same whether he’s using his CT or not. His reinforcement output should be higher than Sukuna’s. Sukuna somehow managed to blitz him.

 

[Zyurtunder13]

No way there are still people here trying to glaze Sukuna and Gojo, and "scaling" (leeching) them to Goatbura's feat, the truth is that he's way stronger and faster than those two barely above supersonic losers.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Ryu has the highest output of all cg players. He’s the only sorcerer that output stays the same whether he’s using his CT or not. His reinforcement output should be higher than Sukuna’s. Sukuna somehow managed to blitz him.

*The truth is: Full Power Sukuna's Output > 16F Sukuna's Output > Ryu's Ouput.

We not doing this again. Ryu's output is the highest in his era (Kashimo downscale ) and, at best, the highest of the CG players so far. Sukuna didn't join the CG til he went to megumi as, though it was thought yuji was a player cuz of sukuna, yuji was born a culling game player

(forgive the lack of pixels, naoya stole them for his technique like the bum he is)

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

No way there are still people here trying to glaze Sukuna and Gojo, and "scaling" (leeching") them to Goatbura's feat, the truth is that he's way stronger and faster than those two barely above supersonic losers.

ya'll act like 3 goats can't exist, chiiiiiiiiiiiiill

 

[Rodriiogo]

You mean the guy who thinks Yuta can kill 15F sukuna?

Like, i agree with Sukuna=Dabura but saying yuji's a super accuate powerscaler is a bit of a stretch (then again, tbf to my goat, he's likely gotten better at the ability of the years)

Yuji was able to pinpoint the power between the grasshopper curse and the ones coming because he fought him. Yuji had only fought a holding back Yuta and had not even felt Sukuna's power when at 15F he was going purely off vibes here to be fair, Yuji was unconscious throughout the entirety of what Sukuna did and just saw the destruction at the end. Yuji was basically vibe scaling here so of course he was wrong.

Except what are they comparing and measuring Sukuna’s level of strength to? What show of power has Dabura given Jujutsu high to provide them an accurate read on his capabilities? They can only aura scale because that’s all they have to go off of.

That's unknown, the point is that they weren't wrong via all the other confirmation.

No that was Jujutsu Society. Usami is literally a sorcerer and jujutsu society and the government are linked now in the time of the Modulo. What lie lmao.

The one you are telling:
The inspector general is what declared the invasion as a Sukuna level threat. Usami as a regular sorcerer doesn't have the same knowledge as the higher ups. He and Mino get shocked upon Dabura entering the room and literally says "So that's what people/they mean when they say 'Ryomen Sukuna level' "

The whole reason the invasion was a sukuna level threat is BECAUSE they (higher ups) knew of Dabura.
Also, it's in the same chapter where they straight up confirm the aliens have been staying in America.

Yes because Yuji has literally been staying away from Jujutsu society and even specifically didn’t give them advice he knew would happen lol

But he is narrating it and he has his own view on stuff. He would note if Dabura got suddenly 1000x stronger out of nowhere instead of going "yea I will handle him" AFTER he got 1000x stronger. Do you think Yuji would genuinely NO DIFF Dabura and Sukuna before that? Tell me that's narratively what Gege was potraying man.

You’re talking about promotional material to build hype towards the audience. Yes that’s exactly what that’s for. Gege also tried to build hype towards Yuta by saying he could handle 15f Sukuna. I guess YUJI decided to LIE to the audience for NO REASON too huh?

Yuji as I said was pure vibe-scaling, not even aura-scaling, VIBE. He didn't know the strength of either and was purely going off vibes becuase of how emotional scarred he was.

An appeal to incredulity isn’t an argument, it’s a fallacy. Yuji training for decades is reasonable enough explanation for how he got so strong regardless of if you agree with it or not.

Do you know what latent potential means?

Uh huh now show me Sukuna killing any grade curses whatsoever from several many kilometers away. Let alone however god knows how many cursed spirits Yuji must’ve annihilated to make a “dust cloud” that big.

...so you want a range feat? Something that I admitted, yea Yuji has better range... and? You want proof of sukuna having a higher range becauuusee?? How does that relate to power.

For reference, Gojo’s Hollow Purple traveling less than 4 kilometers made it lose nearly 80% of its output. Let alone a casual dismantle, so yeah it’s a great feat.

The distance Yuji's dismantle covered was around 10 kilometers irc. Even if you wanna say it lost it's output to like idk 5%? Do you genuinely think 5% of Sukuna's output isn't killing all those grade 3-4 curses? 10% Output 15F Sukuna was BEATING AWAKENED MAKI (Who was superior to special grade Yuta physically, even if you dont wanna say superior, they are comparable). Trust me, the feat is not impressive inverse compared to Sukuna's. Tsurika literally matched the feat aswell.

Dabura’s light speed kick is a showing in of itself that directly changes his threat level. Reread what I’m saying. Also literally the person watching that recording was shocked by the claim of why Gojo could do. An it’s not about Ui-Ui stopping to record but rather him may be being unable to record parts of the fight like Dabura’s relativistic speeds for example as that could be far to fast for him to catch. You have no idea because we don’t see Ui UI’s video so we can’t say there’s an accurate showing of the fight.

Not really because the kick was something he wasn't able to do normally. This is something that Dabura changed mid-fight. He had never done a light-speed kick before because he had never reached lightspeed, that's why I'm saying, ITS FINE if you wanna say "Dabura beats them" or "Dabura has higher AP" with kick, whatever. Their durability is still comaprable. And Ui-Ui being unable to catch his speed is irrelevant since no one is saying they scale to them in speed, it'd still catch his power and Mahoraga's (the same crows also kept up and recorded Gojo vs Sukuna so unless you think Dabura and Mahoraga were always moving at blitzing speeds every single second, it would catch their power more than once, we quite literally even see them fighting ON THE SCREEN.

Literally nothing you said here has anything to do with what I said in the section you quoted of me. Reread what I said, you’re arguing with ghosts right now.

Then your point is irrelevant basically is what I'm saying and via everything else I said.

But Mahoraga’s value to one shot is dependent on which Mahoraga we’re talking about as well. For example, if an attack with 70 outputs is enough to one shot Megumi’s Mahoraga, that does not mean it’s enough to one shot Sukuna’s Mahoraga in return.

This also has 0 relevancy by the way.

I will start replying to the rest with stuff I said in the thread cause this is all stuff I already adressed atp.

Dabura’s durability and overall stats DO change. We directly witness this in fact with Dabura breaking Mahoraga’s sword that was just cutting him with the palm of his hand.

That was simply CE reinforcement due to Dabura actually fighting properly now. I said that but let me make it clearer to you:

Dabura did not increase his durability to tank the sword, he is simply outting enough energy in his hand to crush the sword. Something that even Sukuna can do to survive a hollow purple with over 120% the output of regular purple without getting defeated immediately as he enhanced his arms with cursed energy. Despite this for Sukuna we see him take a beating from Gojo same way Dabura took from Mahoraga multiple times. He was able to do this by controlling his cursed energy to a singular spot to do that. This is very much normal and doesn't contradict anything. (Another examples are obvious like how Todo was able to take a black flash from Mahito and Sukuna via just outputting cursed energy where they hit him)

Even after chapter 19 (where Dabura actually starts fighting properly and the kick happened) we:

• See that Mahoraga was still keeping up and not getting completely destroyed as they kept fighting off-screen:

• Yuji still thinks he could handle Dabura saying he would handle Dabura if Yuka (Mahoraga) loses.

Nothing changed after the kick. The fact you genuinely think Dabura got 1000x stronger or something and Yuji just says "yea I got it" is insane.

Yeah and I’m saying they don’t scale to him there either. Dabura applying his CT to himself has a direct impact on his stats as well as his own warrior mentality pushing him into an awakened state.

No it doesn't. And where did you get the idea of "awakened state" stop headcanoning the series, there was no awakening that boosted Dabura's stats other than in your headcanon.

No they wouldn’t actually because again the light speed kick is Dabura specifically applying himself in order to reach the realm of the warriors which is something he hadn’t done before. It wouldn’t be considered until Dabura actually developed that warrior mentality. Also that’s promotional material not direct manga evidence.

That was not the goddamn point of the warriors mentality man you genuinely got to be reading the manga like someone obsessed with powerscaling:

Dabura was saying that because he never truly fought before, Dabura already had the strength of a warrior but he was not a warrior because he has never actually fought before as no one has ever pushed him to actually fight. That's the entirety of his character and the point of him saying he's gonna "fight properly" now.

That isn't telling you "Look Dabura is getting stronger!". It's simply that Dabura is finally having a real fight, he finally gained his own resolve. He is gonna achieve his warriorhood. Not by "getting stronger" as that was something he already had but finally not only the will but also the need to fight. This isn't a boost in strength and you're just headcanoning that it is one.

There was no growth in Dabura's durability/raw physicals.

And you genuinely started pulling the "it's promotional material" excuse man... you finally realised it ain't in your favor?

 

[Maitreya12]

ya'll act like 3 goats can't exist, chiiiiiiiiiiiiill

They can but the slander and agenda is too funny.

 

[Mommyleona]

snip

Yes i agree, ME and rodrigo thought of this together

 

[Zyurtunder13]

ya'll act like 3 goats can't exist, chiiiiiiiiiiiiill

They can be goats, but they don't deserve or have actual reasons to leech off of an absolute goat like Dabura.

 

[BiggestOpp]

We not doing this again. Ryu's output is the highest in his era (Kashimo downscale ) and, at best, the highest of the CG players so far. Sukuna didn't join the CG til he went to megumi as, though it was thought yuji was a player cuz of sukuna, yuji was born a culling game player

(forgive the lack of pixels, naoya stole them for his technique like the bum he is)

Sukuna is a player big dawg. Idk what else to tell you

 

[Zyurtunder13]

They can but the slander and agenda is too funny.

What I'm saying isn't "slander" or "agenda", it's the basic point of scaling, Dabura just has better feats of power and speed than both of them, and they don't deserve at all to be scale to his level in the slightest, they're both barely above supersonic and maybe can reach small city level, they don't deserve to scale to anything at all from Dabura.
And I'm glad that the majority of mods are agreeing to the notion that they shouldn't scale to Dabura in the slightest on that thread.

 

[Rodriiogo]

What I'm saying isn't "slander" or "agenda", it's the basic point of scaling, Dabura just has better feats of power and speed than both of them, and they don't deserve at all to be scale to his level in the slightest, they're both barely above supersonic and maybe can reach small city level, they don't deserve to scale to anything at all from Dabura

Retire from reading the manga man you dont got it

 

[BiggestOpp]

U gone let Rod talk to you like that???

 

[Zyurtunder13]

U gone let Rod talk to you like that???

There's no need for me to argue with ignorant individuals, he can say whatever he wants to say, wouldn't make him make sense

 

[Rodriiogo]

There's no need for me to argue with ignorant individuals, he can say whatever he wants to say, wouldn't make him make sense

Took you that long to think of a response after liking his comment, eitherway you still couldn't prove anything and work on vibe-scaling stuff cause you know nothing in the story supports your claims and you can't debunk the actual story supporting mine.

 

[BiggestOpp]

Rod talking reckless today. He do not care nm

 

[Nonynho]

There is no conceivable way for Yuta to be able to beat Sukuna, Yuji’s body or not.

It’s a 100% victory each time off the domain expansion alone.

Sukuna is 100% winning against basically the whole verse by using the Domain

But he ain't instantly using Shrine like ever, it is not the most 100% IC thing for him to do, and that's how a fight could happen

That's basically why the Toji match i made is no stomp :>

 

[Maitreya12]

That's unknown, the point is that they weren't wrong via all the other confirmation.

Okay so you can’t prove they have accurate full knowledge on Dabura’s capabilities and powers. Usami even points to it since Dabura walked in and they felt his presence and they said “that’s they meant by he’s a Sukuna level threat.” It’s literally aura scaling.

The one you are telling:
The inspector general is what declared the invasion as a Sukuna level threat. Usami as a regular sorcerer doesn't have the same knowledge as the higher ups. He and Mino get shocked upon Dabura entering the room and literally says "So that's what people/they mean when they say 'Ryomen Sukuna level' "

Usami not only is one of the highest ranking sorcerers of the modern day but is also the acting minister for foreign affairs. He’s Kelly a government agent too but beyond that, that very statement is evidence they based their assessment of Dabura’s strength on just his presence alone as Dabura’s very presence alone is what Jabaloma warns about and what they react to.

The whole reason the invasion was a sukuna level threat is BECAUSE they (higher ups) knew of Dabura.
Also, it's in the same chapter where they straight up confirm the aliens have been staying in America.

Right and they judged he was a Sukuna level threat off of Dabura’s presence alone without knowing anything else about his abilities. This very interaction and statement indicates as such. Hence why they don’t have an accurate read on Dabura’s strength as they’re making a preliminary judgement based on the little available information they have about him. Dabura showcasing feats beyond that assessment doesn’t mean their preliminary judgement was fully accurate, it means they weren’t aware of Dabura’s true strength. Which makes sense as even Dabura himself hardly ever applies himself.

But he is narrating it and he has his own view on stuff. He would note if Dabura got suddenly 1000x stronger out of nowhere instead of going "yea I will handle him" AFTER he got 1000x stronger. Do you think Yuji would genuinely NO DIFF Dabura and Sukuna before that?

No he doesn’t have to. Your conformations of what Yuji “has to” do doesn’t have to be portrayed. What Yuji is saying in the statement is Jujutsu society’s assessment of Dabura, he wasn’t even making any commentary on Dabura’s strength himself.

Tell me that's narratively what Gege was potraying man.

Narratively? Narratively??

Narratively Dabura washes Sukuna. Ever since he introduced his light speed movement it was a narrative sweep. Oh my god it was like Gege wanted to take powercliffing to a new level, going Mach 3 as something somewhat troubling before to light speed? It couldn’t have been more painfully obvious. And he even said it to with that whole “unexplored by humanity” statement prior too. It’s a narrative disaster for Sukuna.

Same with Yuji too by the way. You want to talk about narrative and yet simultaneously downplay the literal biggest explosion Gege has put from pen to paper in the series as just “dust clouds” from a casual dismantle. Don’t ever talk about narrative again bro it does NOT work in Sukuna and Gojo’s favor.

Whole point of Gojo’s narrative by the way was for Yuji to surpass him….

Yuji as I said was pure vibe-scaling, not even aura-scaling, VIBE. He didn't know the strength of either and was purely going off vibes becuase of how emotional scarred he was.

Vibe scaling? What are you talking about, he literally had the memories of what transpired. We see on page he has the memories of the domain expansion that transpired and what happened in Shibuya. Saying “he was too emotionally scarred to get an accurate read on Sukuna’s strength” is just headcanon.

Do you know what latent potential means?

Didn’t Gojo fully state he believed Yuji could surpass him someday? That was before he became immortal too right.

...so you want a range feat? Something that I admitted, yea Yuji has better range... and? You want proof of sukuna having a higher range becauuusee?? How does that relate to power.

“Range” no that’s pure power. It’s an established fact of JJK that increasing the size and range of your technique decreases its power. For Yuji to kill that many cursed sprites to produce that large of an explosion from that far away is demonstrated it having an enormous output of power.

The distance Yuji's dismantle covered was around 10 kilometers irc. Even if you wanna say it lost its output to like idk 5%? Do you genuinely think 5% of Sukuna's output isn't killing all those grade 3-4 curses?

Yes. 5% of Sukuna’s out has never shown such capability as doing what Yuji pulled off. Not even close.

10% Output 15F Sukuna was BEATING AWAKENED MAKI (Who was superior to special grade Yuta physically, even if you dont wanna say superior, they are comparable). Trust me, the feat is not impressive inverse compared to Sukuna's. Tsurika literally matched the feat aswell.

This is a whole other conversation entirely but that’s not true. What fluctuated to 10% was Sukuna’s technique not his physical stats, and Yuji was able to withstand those.

In fact CG Yuji goddamn ate those dismantles like a champ. That was 10% of 16f Sukuna. You think those dismantles that Culling Games Yuji was able to withstand a whole bombardment of would annihilate like 15 kilometers worth of cursed spirits each???

Yeah I’m sure that was the narrative portrayal of that scene huh.

Not really because the kick was something he wasn't able to do normally. This is something that Dabura changed mid-fight. He had never done a light-speed kick before because he had never reached lightspeed, that's why I'm saying, ITS FINE if you wanna say "Dabura beats them" or "Dabura has higher AP" with kick, whatever. Their durability is still comaprable.

Not really for reasons I’ve previously explained before. I’m not saying “Dabura beats them” I’m saying “they don’t scale to Dabura” and I’m explaining why they’re durability isn’t comparable.

And Ui-Ui being unable to catch his speed is irrelevant since no one is saying they scale to them in speed, it'd still catch his power and Mahoraga's

I’m saying we don’t know what the crows caught. We don’t see the video at all really, just barely any snippets of it. And we know it’s been edited in order to make the Simurian side look good and not show what fully happened. We don’t know if the video ends before the light speed kick or just after Dabura expanded his domain. It’s completely headcanon to say the video encapsulates everything that was witnessed in the fight.

(the same crows also kept up and recorded Gojo vs Sukuna so unless you think Dabura and Mahoraga were always moving at blitzing speeds every single second, it would catch their power more than once, we quite literally even see them fighting ON THE SCREEN.

Dabura and this Mahoraga are clearly significantly faster than them and moreover we even see on screen them completely blitzing as part of their casual exchange. But the point is that we don’t know what they fully catch or not.

Then your point is irrelevant basically is what I'm saying and via everything else I said.

This also has 0 relevancy by the way.

I will start replying to the rest with stuff I said in the thread cause this is all stuff I already adressed atp.

The point about Mahoraga’s strength being dependent seems pretty relevant but regardless we can move on from that.

That was simply CE reinforcement due to Dabura actually fighting properly now. I said that but let me make it clearer to you

abura did not increase his durability to tank the sword, he is simply outting enough energy in his hand to crush the sword. Something that even Sukuna can do to survive a hollow purple with over 120% the output of regular purple without getting defeated immediately as he enhanced his arms with cursed energy. Despite this for Sukuna we see him take a beating from Gojo same way Dabura took from Mahoraga multiple times. He was able to do this by controlling his cursed energy to a singular spot to do that. This is very much normal and doesn't contradict anything. (Another examples are obvious like how Todo was able to take a black flash from Mahito and Sukuna via just outputting cursed energy where they hit him)

That’s just headcanon dude. Sukuna reinforcing his arm to withstand hollow purple better doesn’t equate to Dabura outputting more energy to break Mahoraga’s blade. Can you even prove Dabura is even aware of performing such a manipulation of cursed energy? And Gojo beating on Sukuna also doesn’t contradict his HP doing so much damage to Sukuna like Dabura breaking Mahoraga’s blade is indicative of a stat increase as Gojo’s atttacks on Sukuna don’t perform nearly as much damage as the blowing his arms off that his hollow purple did, comparatively, Mahoraga was beating on Dabura before he suddenly shattered his blade with his bare hand with no sign of injury. Which is a significant difference in stats.

Even after chapter 19 (where Dabura actually starts fighting properly and the kick happened) we:

• See that Mahoraga was still keeping up and not getting completely destroyed as they kept fighting off-screen:

Yeah because Mahoraga is even more adapted to Dabura now, so what? Mahoraga’s adaptation vastly changes his performance and allows him to keep up with his opponent, he can’t be scaled to Sukuna here of course.

• Yuji still thinks he could handle Dabura saying he would handle Dabura if Yuka (Mahoraga) loses.

Nothing changed after the kick. The fact you genuinely think Dabura got 1000x stronger or something and Yuji just says "yea I got it" is insane.

Literally everything changed after the kick. Dabura’s whole mentality fundamentally started striving to be a warrior. The fact that you see him perform a completely new application of his technique which leads to devastating results far beyond what he previously demonstrated, learns reversed curses technique, learned cursed technique reversal, literally shatter the blade that was just beating on him with his barehand and can’t imagine thinking “hmm, Dabura totally just got a lot stronger here” is more unbelievable of a position to me.

Like really, that’s what’s insane to you?

Yuji saying he can handle Dabura doesn’t contradict this because Yuji can be however strong in Modulo because it’s been decades since the main series.

No it doesn't. And where did you get the idea of "awakened state" stop headcanoning the series, there was no awakening that boosted Dabura's stats other than in your headcanon.

We can literally directly witness Dabura getting stronger and also wrong, a change in mentality can directly lead to a sorcerer’s evolution and make them stronger. This is a consistently established fact in the series and is what Dabura is demonstrating with his warrior mentality here.

That was not the goddamn point of the warriors mentality man you genuinely got to be reading the manga like someone obsessed with powerscaling:

That very much is the point of the warrior mentality. You’re starting to sound too heated to even have a powerscaling discussion to begin with.

And you genuinely started pulling the "it's promotional material" excuse man... you finally realised it ain't in your favor?

Not only do literal cite standards call the promotional material often into question, but I’ve been saying it’s just promotional material constantly throughout this conversation. Did you just happen to catch that now?

 

[Maitreya12]

Sukuna is 100% winning against basically the whole verse by using the Domain

But he ain't instantly using Shrine like ever, it is not the most 100% IC thing for him to do, and that's how a fight could happen

That's basically why the Toji match i made is no stomp :>

Oh yeah I’m not saying he’ll instantly pop his domain or anything, but I just don’t see a fight between Yuta and Sukuna that won’t inevitably boil down to using a domain expansion you know.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

 

[KnightDark_990]

Off the top of my head and not thinking much about it
1. Sukuna
2. Gojo
3. Kenjaku
4. Yorozu (Bug Armor)
5. Yuta
6. Yuji
7. Yuki (Might be lower)
8. Toji
9. Maki
10. Kashimo
11. Uraume
12. Hakari
13. Ryu
14. Uro
Dk about 15 off the top of my head icl prob Kurourushi

It's incredible how this entire top (except Gojo and Sukuna) falls victim to a slow interval of 0.01 seconds (below subsonic)...

 

[Nonynho]

Oh yeah I’m not saying he’ll instantly pop his domain or anything, but I just don’t see a fight between Yuta and Sukuna that won’t inevitably boil down to using a domain expansion you know.

I think Yuta can win against him before they resort to that, ngl

 

[Arkenis]

Obito vs Yuta

Ap: 35.41 Kilotons LS: 2,643,906,800 metric tonsAp: 382.57 Kilotons LS: >125,959.27947 Metric Tons Obito is searching for Gojo's body to use for Edo Tensei. Yuta is sent to stop this unknown masked man. Equal Speed Kuruma restricted Masked Man Obito, Shinjuku Yuta Obito: Yuta: Yuji comes in...

vsbattles.com

 

[BeTheWay1rst]

Everytime i see your pfp, it remind me of a beautiful song

 

[The_Renegade_Slugger]

Ofc the staff thread still needs to get done, but does anyone have a wip Dabura sandbox?

 

[Arkenis]

Ofc the staff thread still needs to get done, but does anyone have a wip Dabura sandbox?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:AbaddonTheDisappointment/JJKWIP1

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Heard THE Yuta panel got offically translated as "unusual abilities"

 

[Arkenis]

Yeah but we all know Yuta's the second strongest
the kanjis always said unusual

 

[Electronic74947]

I think they’re saying if Sukuna didn’t get a random buff.

"random buff" brother

 

[Electronic74947]

Btw, honestly curious but where would anti gravity scale for nulling the black hole?


edit: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...r_try_at_Kenjaku's_Blackhole_feat_(JJK_Manga) rodriggo made a calc but someone should probably evaluate it.

 

[Rodriiogo]

Okay so you can’t prove they have accurate full knowledge on Dabura’s capabilities and powers. Usami even points to it since Dabura walked in and they felt his presence and they said “that’s they meant by he’s a Sukuna level threat.” It’s literally aura scaling.

Pick one, you said that's fine to get a power basis a while ago:

Because they can still feel the aura and presence of a character and assign a threat level based on that. Like how Jogo could immediately recognize the danger when he was in Sukuna’s presence.

Yes. You can literally feel the danger and threat level someone imposes based on aura. This is an established fact of JJK.

And I already said them not knowing about his technique doesn't matter for the case of sukuna scaling aslong as they know how strong he physically is since the argument is if Sukuna scales to his durability, not if he beats him or anything like that. And again, the other statements prove they were indeed correct in their measurement. (And again, the narrator and tengen knew about his technique and still said the same thing)

Usami not only is one of the highest ranking sorcerers of the modern day but is also the acting minister for foreign affairs. He’s Kelly a government agent too but beyond that, that very statement is evidence they based their assessment of Dabura’s strength on just his presence alone as Dabura’s very presence alone is what Jabaloma warns about and what they react to.

Usami still had no idea about Dabura while the higher ups did, thats the point. You can't use Usami as your evidence which you did at first. And Jabaloma warns them about his strength on how they can technacly not be considered unarmed when Dabura is around due to how strong he is.

Right and they judged he was a Sukuna level threat off of Dabura’s presence alone without knowing anything else about his abilities. This very interaction and statement indicates as such. Hence why they don’t have an accurate read on Dabura’s strength as they’re making a preliminary judgement based on the little available information they have about him. Dabura showcasing feats beyond that assessment doesn’t mean their preliminary judgement was fully accurate, it means they weren’t aware of Dabura’s true strength. Which makes sense as even Dabura himself hardly ever applies himself.

I already said why it doesn't matter, the whole point is that via the other statements they are correct. You are missing that the point is that they measured Dabura at said Sukuna level, and it gets confirmed as true by the side material and the narrative itself. It's that simple. If it was simply a throwaway statement, I'd agree with you, it could be wrong. But it's not.

No he doesn’t have to. Your conformations of what Yuji “has to” do doesn’t have to be portrayed. What Yuji is saying in the statement is Jujutsu society’s assessment of Dabura, he wasn’t even making any commentary on Dabura’s strength himself.

The intent is that he is Sukuna level, you are genuinely clutching at straws and headcanon.

Narratively Dabura washes Sukuna. Ever since he introduced his light speed movement it was a narrative sweep. Oh my god it was like Gege wanted to take powercliffing to a new level, going Mach 3 as something somewhat troubling before to light speed? It couldn’t have been more painfully obvious. And he even said it to with that whole “unexplored by humanity” statement prior too. It’s a narrative disaster for Sukuna.

"Narratively Dabura washes Sukuna" Hmm that's gotta be interesting he will surely show narratively dabura washing Sukuna in POWER right as that's the convo right... right?
"Ever since he introduced his light speed movement" "going mach 3 as something somewhat troubling"

Do you see what I mean? All your "narrative" for Dabura being much strong is SPEED (not only downplaying Sukuna's speed to mach 3 for some reason but ignoring that). Dude I swear no one and I mean NO ONE is trying to say Sukuna scales to Dabura's accelerated speed , the narrative around his speed is completely irrelevant and, yes, gaps Sukuna what about it.

Same with Yuji too by the way. You want to talk about narrative and yet simultaneously downplay the literal biggest explosion Gege has put from pen to paper in the series as just “dust clouds” from a casual dismantle. Don’t ever talk about narrative again bro it does NOT work in Sukuna and Gojo’s favor.

Because... it wasn't an explosion. You tried bolding narrative let me just tell you here, tell me that "narratively" Yuji blew up 10km worth of a city and houses to kill grade 3-4s.... Sounds sooo reasonable right? Look at the actual pages cause I swear you probably only looked at leaks and didn't bother to read the chapter.

The whole context is that as Maru and Tsurika were fighting, the cursed spirits started appearing around the city, Yuji AS HE SAID JUST PAGES BEFORE, was gonna handle the job of killing all of them, but Tsurika also notices them coming and starts aiming at them, with Rika saying Tsurugi will just have to swing it and she will take care of outputting the damage necessary. That's why we get the panel of both Yuji and Tsurika side by side as Yuji uses his dismantle, they both slash at a different group of cursed spirits at the same time and kill them all. As Uraume says that upon killing a curse their body will turn into dust due to the disappearing reaction and that cutted pieces will do the same, in this case there were so many curses for Yuji and Tsurika to kill that they could quite literally make a tsunami out of sheer numbers and we see how much dust a single curse and a few curses can cause upon being killed. That's the entire feat. Yuji's dismantle and Tsurika's Slash both cut through the huge number of cursed spirits and caused it to create said huge dust explosions due to that. Look at all the pages after the dust cloud where Tsurigi and Maru are, and please tell me where the destruction went. There's no "narratively" high feat here. In fact it makes it so Yuji's dismantle is equal to Tsurika's Output. The same Tsurika who Maru was fighting by the way.

Whole point of Gojo’s narrative by the way was for Yuji to surpass him….

Sure....They truly actually meant he will actually be THOUSANDS OF TIMES stronger than both of them here when they said "as good as me" and "equal".

Vibe scaling? What are you talking about, he literally had the memories of what transpired. We see on page he has the memories of the domain expansion that transpired and what happened in Shibuya. Saying “he was too emotionally scarred to get an accurate read on Sukuna’s strength” is just headcanon.

First off when. I'm forgetting it here, when did he show memories of what happened when he was unconscious? What domain are you talking about? But once again, he was unconscious and couldn't get a grasp on Sukuna's power at all regardless.

Didn’t Gojo fully state he believed Yuji could surpass him someday? That was before he became immortal too right.

I already showed why that's not the case but I guess you mean this two panels:

That have this translation done by Lightning that completely changes it's meaning:

So... yea.
Even if the other ends up being correct, Gojo was going off what he wanted here, the actual narrative statements as I showed before was about Yuji and the students having potential to be as good as Gojo and Yuji be equal to Sukuna.

“Range” no that’s pure power. It’s an established fact of JJK that increasing the size and range of your technique decreases its power. For Yuji to kill that many cursed sprites to produce that large of an explosion from that far away is demonstrated it having an enormous output of power.

"Explosion". I already explained why you're just wrong but let me tell you that to have enough output to kill grade 3-4 curses after those kms... isnt that impressive compared to Sukuna and Gojo man.

Yes. 5% of Sukuna’s out has never shown such capability as doing what Yuji pulled off. Not even close.
This is a whole other conversation entirely but that’s not true. What fluctuated to 10% was Sukuna’s technique not his physical stats, and Yuji was able to withstand those.
In fact CG Yuji goddamn ate those dismantles like a champ. That was 10% of 16f Sukuna. You think those dismantles that Culling Games Yuji was able to withstand a whole bombardment of would annihilate like 15 kilometers worth of cursed spirits each???

First off that's not what Sukuna says:

He says he can move unhindered because Megumi doesn't have control over his actual flesh/body like Yuji did so he couldn't resist Sukuna's control, but his entire CURSED ENERGY OUTPUT was lowered to below even 10%, that would indeed affect his physical body, what isn't affected is his control over the body.
That's why they were even harming 16F Sukuna and actually keeping up that much without being killed, we literally see how an actual 16F Sukuna upon regainin all his output could just blitz someone comparable to Yuta in speed and even superior physically (Ryu).
10% of 16F Sukuna was indeed enough to harm people that were special grade level sorcerers level physically, which is way more impressive than like 1% output of yuji's dismantle killing grade 3-4 curses lol.
And did you just say Yuji "ate" those dismantles...? He was still being cut it was just superficial which allowed him to get close enough. 10% 16F Sukuna would still "scale" comparable to CG Yuji here via those cuts.

Not really for reasons I’ve previously explained before. I’m not saying “Dabura beats them” I’m saying “they don’t scale to Dabura” and I’m explaining why they’re durability isn’t comparable.

By lying and just making false equivalences yea you are. You are trying to use them not knowing the techniques as proof for why they were wrong on his physicals. (Even tho Tengen/Narrator knew by the way!!)

I’m saying we don’t know what the crows caught. We don’t see the video at all really, just barely any snippets of it. And we know it’s been edited in order to make the Simurian side look good and not show what fully happened. We don’t know if the video ends before the light speed kick or just after Dabura expanded his domain. It’s completely headcanon to say the video encapsulates everything that was witnessed in the fight.

It's completely headcanon to say that it DIDN'T show everything because Usami even complains about Ui Ui just recording what he wants alongside that the whole intent that Ui Ui had was to show power and strength to the current generation as they had forgotten, he wanted to show everyone the brutality that living beings can do. Why would he stop the recording before the very thing that would just show them even more what living beings can do, and an destruction just like Gojo and Sukuna left off? Once again clutching at straws man. And the video wasn't edited what? Where did you get this from? The one who made the simurians look good was their "sources" that told them about Dabura, the video wasn't modified to make Dabura look good because nothing in the video would even make Dabura look bad per se as they simply said "Mahoraga appeared" so they didn't see that Yuka, a child, summoned it. So all they saw was Mahoraga fighting Dabura for apparent no reason, there was no need to modify the video, they just lied about it.

Dabura and this Mahoraga are clearly significantly faster than them and moreover we even see on screen them completely blitzing as part of their casual exchange. But the point is that we don’t know what they fully catch or not.

"clearly significantly faster than them" genuinely you are NEVER proving this outside of Dabura's acceleration man, and why are you acting like Gojo and Sukuna werent blitzing each other aswell?? Do you mean blitzing the viewer? You can not be using "Blitzing the viewer" as an argument here... surely not...

That’s just headcanon dude. Sukuna reinforcing his arm to withstand hollow purple better doesn’t equate to Dabura outputting more energy to break Mahoraga’s blade. Can you even prove Dabura is even aware of performing such a manipulation of cursed energy? And Gojo beating on Sukuna also doesn’t contradict his HP doing so much damage to Sukuna like Dabura breaking Mahoraga’s blade is indicative of a stat increase as Gojo’s atttacks on Sukuna don’t perform nearly as much damage as the blowing his arms off that his hollow purple did, comparatively, Mahoraga was beating on Dabura before he suddenly shattered his blade with his bare hand with no sign of injury. Which is a significant difference in stats.

....what? Genuinely what did you mean to say here, I understood 1% of it. To answer what I understood, yes, Dabura could do such manipulation of cursed energy cause thats something you just do on instinct, even fearsome womb arc Yuji who had 0 CE control was able to put Cursed energy into his own fist when under emotions which was the case for Dabura here aswell, no way you think Dabura just sucks that much, I literally even gave you the Todo example for that exact reason:

(He does it instinctively like every sorcerer does, Mahito is the biggest example of sorcerers passively and instinctively protecting their own body and even soul when in danger)
And you completely missed the point on the Gojo and Sukuna thing so let me rephrase: Sukuna blocks a 120% Hollow Purple -> A 120% Hollow purple would at the very least be 3x stronger than Gojo himself. (As regular hollow purple would already be above a 2.5x black flash, adding the 120% it would reach 3x bare minimum) -> This means that, with CE reinforcement, Sukuna and block something which is at THE VERY LEAST (and it should be way superior and you know) 3x stronger than him. Todo, who didn't have as much cursed energy as Sukuna still managed to block a black flash from Mahito that should have killed him aswell on instinct. Dabura blocking and breaking Mahoraga's sword means N O T H I N G. Especially when as I said Mahoraga's durability, INCLUDING HIS SWORD, is not linear as seen during all of the Gojo VS Sukuna fight. Mahoraga's sword was able to just straight up block two Black Flashes in a row from Gojo with not even a crack on it. The same Black Flash sent Sukuna to dreamland and very clearly damaged him alot. This is because Mahoraga had adapted to his physicals (and even black flash itself as the last spin happened in the moment Sukuna got black flashed) yet when it came to something Mahoraga hadn't adapted to (Hollow Purple), it vaporized him yet Sukuna lived. Does this mean Sukuna got stronger?!?!? He took something that Mahoraga didn't even tho Mahoraga was taking stuff 2.5x than him before!??! (No, his durability just isn't linear and if he hasn't adapted to X, X can still break him)

Yeah because Mahoraga is even more adapted to Dabura now, so what? Mahoraga’s adaptation vastly changes his performance and allows him to keep up with his opponent, he can’t be scaled to Sukuna here of course.

That was not the point. It was to say that Dabura didn't "increase thousands of times" here unless you wanna say Dabura sucked that Mahoraga actually just fully adapted to the point he could keep up with someone that BY YOUR LOGIC, just got thousands of times stronger in a second. The amount of strech you're doing will make you reach Jupiter.

Literally everything changed after the kick. Dabura’s whole mentality fundamentally started striving to be a warrior. The fact that you see him perform a completely new application of his technique which leads to devastating results far beyond what he previously demonstrated, learns reversed curses technique, learned cursed technique reversal, literally shatter the blade that was just beating on him with his barehand and can’t imagine thinking “hmm, Dabura totally just got a lot stronger here” is more unbelievable of a position to me.

...Why are you speaking of things like that? That doesn't make Dabura physically stronger, this point is just null lol. I don't deny he learned way more after that, he starts learning new techniques and calls earth's sorcery advanced. That's it, that's how he "gets stronger", he's fighting properly and like a true warrior now, but he DID NOT GET PHYSICALLY STRONGER.

We can literally directly witness Dabura getting stronger and also wrong, a change in mentality can directly lead to a sorcerer’s evolution and make them stronger. This is a consistently established fact in the series and is what Dabura is demonstrating with his warrior mentality here.

That very much is the point of the warrior mentality. You’re starting to sound too heated to even have a powerscaling discussion to begin with.

We do indeed not witness Dabura get physically stronger, nice headcanon though, a change in mentality simply makes sorcerers tune in more with their power and attune them because of how emotions allow you to connect with cursed energy more like how Yuji turns his fear into cursed energy against Choso or how he turns his emotions into it aswell back in the fearsome arc.
This would all also need statements, Dabura's statements just directly contradict the intent being "He gets stronger now!", just read Doula's own dialogue man. He literally says strength is N O T what makes you a warrior and acknowledges that Dabura already has the strength of a true warrior but he will never be one because he has never truly "fought", he never truly had the mentality of one, but that's irrelevant for STRENGTH. You are genuinely going against Doula's own words and intent on his speech to Dabura. He was trying to say that getting and being stronger will not make Dabura a warrior, and you think that the way Dabura saw this and decided that the way to turn into a warrior... was by getting stronger. Narrative intent thrown out the window, we need Dabura upscale!!

Not only do literal cite standards call the promotional material often into question, but I’ve been saying it’s just promotional material constantly throughout this conversation. Did you just happen to catch that now?

Promotional Material and outside of the story statements can be used if they are consistent with what the story says, in this case, it is, unless you can prove otherwise, they are usable due to matching the in-story narrative and statements.

 

[Arkenis]

Pick one, you said that's fine to get a power basis a while ago:

And I already said them not knowing about his technique doesn't matter for the case of sukuna scaling aslong as they know how strong he physically is since the argument is if Sukuna scales to his durability, not if he beats him or anything like that. And again, the other statements prove they were indeed correct in their measurement. (And again, the narrator and tengen knew about his technique and still said the same thing)


Usami still had no idea about Dabura while the higher ups did, thats the point. You can't use Usami as your evidence which you did at first. And Jabaloma warns them about his strength on how they can technacly not be considered unarmed when Dabura is around due to how strong he is.


I already said why it doesn't matter, the whole point is that via the other statements they are correct. You are missing that the point is that they measured Dabura at said Sukuna level, and it gets confirmed as true by the side material and the narrative itself. It's that simple. If it was simply a throwaway statement, I'd agree with you, it could be wrong. But it's not.


The intent is that he is Sukuna level, you are genuinely clutching at straws and headcanon.


"Narratively Dabura washes Sukuna" Hmm that's gotta be interesting he will surely show narratively dabura washing Sukuna in POWER right as that's the convo right... right?
"Ever since he introduced his light speed movement" "going mach 3 as something somewhat troubling"

Do you see what I mean? All your "narrative" for Dabura being much strong is SPEED (not only downplaying Sukuna's speed to mach 3 for some reason but ignoring that). Dude I swear no one and I mean NO ONE is trying to say Sukuna scales to Dabura's accelerated speed , the narrative around his speed is completely irrelevant and, yes, gaps Sukuna what about it.


Because... it wasn't an explosion. You tried bolding narrative let me just tell you here, tell me that "narratively" Yuji blew up 10km worth of a city and houses to kill grade 3-4s.... Sounds sooo reasonable right? Look at the actual pages cause I swear you probably only looked at leaks and didn't bother to read the chapter.

The whole context is that as Maru and Tsurika were fighting, the cursed spirits started appearing around the city, Yuji AS HE SAID JUST PAGES BEFORE, was gonna handle the job of killing all of them, but Tsurika also notices them coming and starts aiming at them, with Rika saying Tsurugi will just have to swing it and she will take care of outputting the damage necessary. That's why we get the panel of both Yuji and Tsurika side by side as Yuji uses his dismantle, they both slash at a different group of cursed spirits at the same time and kill them all. As Uraume says that upon killing a curse their body will turn into dust due to the disappearing reaction and that cutted pieces will do the same, in this case there were so many curses for Yuji and Tsurika to kill that they could quite literally make a tsunami out of sheer numbers and we see how much dust a single curse and a few curses can cause upon being killed. That's the entire feat. Yuji's dismantle and Tsurika's Slash both cut through the huge number of cursed spirits and caused it to create said huge dust explosions due to that. Look at all the pages after the dust cloud where Tsurigi and Maru are, and please tell me where the destruction went. There's no "narratively" high feat here. In fact it makes it so Yuji's dismantle is equal to Tsurika's Output. The same Tsurika who Maru was fighting by the way.

Sure....They truly actually meant he will actually be THOUSANDS OF TIMES stronger than both of them here when they said "as good as me" and "equal".


First off when. I'm forgetting it here, when did he show memories of what happened when he was unconscious? What domain are you talking about? But once again, he was unconscious and couldn't get a grasp on Sukuna's power at all regardless.


I already showed why that's not the case but I guess you mean this two panels:

That have this translation done by Lightning that completely changes it's meaning:

So... yea.
Even if the other ends up being correct, Gojo was going off what he wanted here, the actual narrative statements as I showed before was about Yuji and the students having potential to be as good as Gojo and Yuji be equal to Sukuna.


"Explosion". I already explained why you're just wrong but let me tell you that to have enough output to kill grade 3-4 curses after those kms... isnt that impressive compared to Sukuna and Gojo man.


First off that's not what Sukuna says:

He says he can move unhindered because Megumi doesn't have control over his actual flesh/body like Yuji did so he couldn't resist Sukuna's control, but his entire CURSED ENERGY OUTPUT was lowered to below even 10%, that would indeed affect his physical body, what isn't affected is his control over the body.
That's why they were even harming 16F Sukuna and actually keeping up that much without being killed, we literally see how an actual 16F Sukuna upon regainin all his output could just blitz someone comparable to Yuta in speed and even superior physically (Ryu).
10% of 16F Sukuna was indeed enough to harm people that were special grade level sorcerers level physically, which is way more impressive than like 1% output of yuji's dismantle killing grade 3-4 curses lol.
And did you just say Yuji "ate" those dismantles...? He was still being cut it was just superficial which allowed him to get close enough. 10% 16F Sukuna would still "scale" comparable to CG Yuji here via those cuts.


By lying and just making false equivalences yea you are. You are trying to use them not knowing the techniques as proof for why they were wrong on his physicals. (Even tho Tengen/Narrator knew by the way!!)


It's completely headcanon to say that it DIDN'T show everything because Usami even complains about Ui Ui just recording what he wants alongside that the whole intent that Ui Ui had was to show power and strength to the current generation as they had forgotten, he wanted to show everyone the brutality that living beings can do. Why would he stop the recording before the very thing that would just show them even more what living beings can do, and an destruction just like Gojo and Sukuna left off? Once again clutching at straws man. And the video wasn't edited what? Where did you get this from? The one who made the simurians look good was their "sources" that told them about Dabura, the video wasn't modified to make Dabura look good because nothing in the video would even make Dabura look bad per se as they simply said "Mahoraga appeared" so they didn't see that Yuka, a child, summoned it. So all they saw was Mahoraga fighting Dabura for apparent no reason, there was no need to modify the video, they just lied about it.


"clearly significantly faster than them" genuinely you are NEVER proving this outside of Dabura's acceleration man, and why are you acting like Gojo and Sukuna werent blitzing each other aswell?? Do you mean blitzing the viewer? You can not be using "Blitzing the viewer" as an argument here... surely not...


....what? Genuinely what did you mean to say here, I understood 1% of it. To answer what I understood, yes, Dabura could do such manipulation of cursed energy cause thats something you just do on instinct, even fearsome womb arc Yuji who had 0 CE control was able to put Cursed energy into his own fist when under emotions which was the case for Dabura here aswell, no way you think Dabura just sucks that much, I literally even gave you the Todo example for that exact reason:

(He does it instinctively like every sorcerer does, Mahito is the biggest example of sorcerers passively and instinctively protecting their own body and even soul when in danger)
And you completely missed the point on the Gojo and Sukuna thing so let me rephrase: Sukuna blocks a 120% Hollow Purple -> A 120% Hollow purple would at the very least be 3x stronger than Gojo himself. (As regular hollow purple would already be above a 2.5x black flash, adding the 120% it would reach 3x bare minimum) -> This means that, with CE reinforcement, Sukuna and block something which is at THE VERY LEAST (and it should be way superior and you know) 3x stronger than him. Todo, who didn't have as much cursed energy as Sukuna still managed to block a black flash from Mahito that should have killed him aswell on instinct. Dabura blocking and breaking Mahoraga's sword means N O T H I N G. Especially when as I said Mahoraga's durability, INCLUDING HIS SWORD, is not linear as seen during all of the Gojo VS Sukuna fight. Mahoraga's sword was able to just straight up block two Black Flashes in a row from Gojo with not even a crack on it. The same Black Flash sent Sukuna to dreamland and very clearly damaged him alot. This is because Mahoraga had adapted to his physicals (and even black flash itself as the last spin happened in the moment Sukuna got black flashed) yet when it came to something Mahoraga hadn't adapted to (Hollow Purple), it vaporized him yet Sukuna lived. Does this mean Sukuna got stronger?!?!? He took something that Mahoraga didn't even tho Mahoraga was taking stuff 2.5x than him before!??! (No, his durability just isn't linear and if he hasn't adapted to X, X can still break him)


That was not the point. It was to say that Dabura didn't "increase thousands of times" here unless you wanna say Dabura sucked that Mahoraga actually just fully adapted to the point he could keep up with someone that BY YOUR LOGIC, just got thousands of times stronger in a second. The amount of strech you're doing will make you reach Jupiter.


...Why are you speaking of things like that? That doesn't make Dabura physically stronger, this point is just null lol. I don't deny he learned way more after that, he starts learning new techniques and calls earth's sorcery advanced. That's it, that's how he "gets stronger", he's fighting properly and like a true warrior now, but he DID NOT GET PHYSICALLY STRONGER.


We do indeed not witness Dabura get physically stronger, nice headcanon though, a change in mentality simply makes sorcerers tune in more with their power and attune them because of how emotions allow you to connect with cursed energy more like how Yuji turns his fear into cursed energy against Choso or how he turns his emotions into it aswell back in the fearsome arc.
This would all also need statements, Dabura's statements just directly contradict the intent being "He gets stronger now!", just read Doula's own dialogue man. He literally says strength is N O T what makes you a warrior and acknowledges that Dabura already has the strength of a true warrior but he will never be one because he has never truly "fought", he never truly had the mentality of one, but that's irrelevant for STRENGTH. You are genuinely going against Doula's own words and intent on his speech to Dabura. He was trying to say that getting and being stronger will not make Dabura a warrior, and you think that the way Dabura saw this and decided that the way to turn into a warrior... was by getting stronger. Narrative intent thrown out the window, we need Dabura upscale!!


Promotional Material and outside of the story statements can be used if they are consistent with what the story says, in this case, it is, unless you can prove otherwise, they are usable due to matching the in-story narrative and statements.

Whole thread up for this Dabura shit man. Both ya are in that thread too.

 

[Electronic74947]

Btw, honestly curious but where would anti gravity scale for nulling the black hole?


edit: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Rodriiogo/Another_try_at_Kenjaku's_Blackhole_feat_(JJK_Manga) rodriggo made a calc but someone should probably evaluate it.

Can someone evaluate it

 

[Mommyleona]

Whole thread up for this Dabura shit man. Both ya are in that thread too.

needs a permission to yap every time

 

[Maitreya12]

Pick one, you said that's fine to get a power basis a while ago:

No I said they can get a baseline of how strong he was based on his presence, but they wouldn’t actually be aware of his true strength. That remains consistent. You can feel the aura of somebody’s power without knowing fully how powerful they really are.

And I already said them not knowing about his technique doesn't matter for the case of sukuna scaling aslong as they know how strong he physically is since the argument is if Sukuna scales to his durability, not if he beats him or anything like that. And again, the other statements prove they were indeed correct in their measurement. (And again, the narrator and tengen knew about his technique and still said the same thing)

An as I already said this would still apply to Dabura’s strength and stats especially as we can directly witness his technique increase his own stats as well and even further increasing his stats after going through a warrior mentality breakthrough, so Sukuna wouldn’t be scaling to Dabura’s stats towards his light speed kick. And again Jujutsu society or anyone would know Dabura’s technique at that point either.

Usami still had no idea about Dabura while the higher ups did, thats the point. You can't use Usami as your evidence which you did at first. And Jabaloma warns them about his strength on how they can technacly not be considered unarmed when Dabura is around due to how strong he is.

Yeah and Usami referenced that they determined Dabura’s strength based on his presence alone, not getting an accurate read on his powers. Jabaloma warns them about Dabura’s presence since his very presence gives off an aura that they can feel which is how they gauged how strong he was. They’re just assuming based off of his presence alone, what Dabura does beyond what Sukuna has been shown to isn’t a Sukuna upscale, it’s just Dabura going beyond the expectations Jujutsu society first assumed of him without knowing anything else about him or his strength.

I already said why it doesn't matter, the whole point is that via the other statements they are correct. You are missing that the point is that they measured Dabura at said Sukuna level, and it gets confirmed as true by the side material and the narrative itself. It's that simple. If it was simply a throwaway statement, I'd agree with you, it could be wrong. But it's not.

And I already said why it does matter. The other statements don’t prove them to be correct. Trying to use promotional material as conformation isn’t substantial evidence a the narrative itself directly goes against Sukuna being comparable the moment Dabura went light speed. You keep missing the point that the statement from Jujutsu society isn’t 100% gospel, they’re taken by characters who don’t know anything about Dabura or his capabilities. They’re subject to change once new information has come to light that demonstrates Dabura being vastly superior to Sukuna, which it has.

The intent is that he is Sukuna level, you are genuinely clutching at straws and headcanon.

No the intent was to demonstrate superiority to Sukuna and the previous gen. You can peal clutch that statement all you want.

"Narratively Dabura washes Sukuna" Hmm that's gotta be interesting he will surely show narratively dabura washing Sukuna in POWER right as that's the convo right... right?

Yeah which is why he had Dabura go light speed. Which is ASTRONOMICALLY more powerful than anything Sukuna has demonstrated.

It takes speed and durability in order to be able to achieve light speed, you understand that right? It’s not just speed, it takes a substantial amount of power as well.

"Ever since he introduced his light speed movement" "going mach 3 as something somewhat troubling"

Do you see what I mean? All your "narrative" for Dabura being much strong is SPEED (not only downplaying Sukuna's speed to mach 3 for some reason but ignoring that). Dude I swear no one and I mean NO ONE is trying to say Sukuna scales to Dabura's accelerated speed , the narrative around his speed is completely irrelevant and, yes, gaps Sukuna what about it.

…do you seriously not understand that being able to go that “SPEED” requires a certain amount of “POWER” to it as well…?

You realize that cursed spirit Naoya had to put forth a binding vow to increase his durability in order to be able to simply withstand traveling at Mach 3 speeds. And yet Dabura’s body is capable of withstanding relativistic levels of speed. You were the one who wanted to bring up narrative, did you forgot that Gege has established that the higher speeds you go, the more durability your body needs in order to be able to withstand those high speeds?

So yeah, light speed is a narrative sweep for Dabura, he’s washing Sukuna.

Because... it wasn't an explosion. You tried bolding narrative let me just tell you here, tell me that "narratively" Yuji blew up 10km worth of a city and houses to kill grade 3-4s.... Sounds sooo reasonable right? Look at the actual pages cause I swear you probably only looked at leaks and didn't bother to read the chapter.

Hmm yes, the giant explosion that Gege drew isn’t actually an explosion, of course that’s totally the narrative purpose of the image huh. And yeah Yuji blowing up that army to kill an entire swarm of cursed spirits in the abandoned city of Tokyo. Yes that makes perfect sense, you want to explain why that somehow goes against the narrative? Cause all you’re doing is just claiming it’s unreasonable without actually proving any reasonable explanation. You talking about not reading and yet somehow try to say the biggest explosion Gege has put to paper somehow isn’t actually an explosion. Forget about reading, bro you’re not even looking at the images.

The whole context is that as Maru and Tsurika were fighting, the cursed spirits started appearing around the city, Yuji AS HE SAID JUST PAGES BEFORE, was gonna handle the job of killing all of them, but Tsurika also notices them coming and starts aiming at them, with Rika saying Tsurugi will just have to swing it and she will take care of outputting the damage necessary. That's why we get the panel of both Yuji and Tsurika side by side as Yuji uses his dismantle, they both slash at a different group of cursed spirits at the same time and kill them all. As Uraume says that upon killing a curse their body will turn into dust due to the disappearing reaction and that cutted pieces will do the same, in this case there were so many curses for Yuji and Tsurika to kill that they could quite literally make a tsunami out of sheer numbers and we see how much dust a single curse and a few curses can cause upon being killed. That's the entire feat. Yuji's dismantle and Tsurika's Slash both cut through the huge number of cursed spirits and caused it to create said huge dust explosions due to that. Look at all the pages after the dust cloud where Tsurigi and Maru are, and please tell me where the destruction went. There's no "narratively" high feat here. In fact it makes it so Yuji's dismantle is equal to Tsurika's Output. The same Tsurika who Maru was fighting by the way.

Okay so for one, Tsurika didn’t cause the second explosion. In fact we can directly witness them being in the exact same position before and after the explosion takes place. They literally didn’t move until after the explosion took place, they weren't the source of it.

But secondly, you didn’t even try and address the argument I presented. You just started spouting off on something completely unrelated. The narratively high feat is killing that many cursed spirits to produce that large of an explosion from that far away. Do you understand? It’s an established fact that increasing the size and range of an attack decreases its output and strength, and yet Yuji with just a basic dismantle was still able to annihilate so many cursed spirits it was able to produce a several kilometer wide explosion.

That’s a narratively high feat. Far beyond anything Sukuna has ever demonstrated in fact. It’s just pure cope to deny otherwise.

Sure....They truly actually meant he will actually be THOUSANDS OF TIMES stronger than both of them here when they said "as good as me" and "equal".

Your argument from incredulity isn’t an argument. It’s a fallacy as I’ve already told you. And yeah Yuji can be however much stronger than them as he likes. Guess what the characters like Uruame in your image didn’t know? That Yuji was immortal, in fact Uruame didn’t even know Yuji had another cursed technique either.

First off when. I'm forgetting it here, when did he show memories of what happened when he was unconscious? What domain are you talking about? But once again, he was unconscious and couldn't get a grasp on Sukuna's power at all regardless.

Sukuna’s domain expansion. Yuji directly had the memories of what transpired during it and we even see that during Yuji’s mental breakdown, the images of Sukuna slaughtering everyone in Shibuya was shown as part of Yuji’s memories. So that’s not true, Yuji directly had knowledge of the power Sukuna displayed in Shibuya.

I already showed why that's not the case but I guess you mean this two panels:

That have this translation done by Lightning that completely changes it's meaning:

So... yea.
Even if the other ends up being correct, Gojo was going off what he wanted here, the actual narrative statements as I showed before was about Yuji and the students having potential to be as good as Gojo and Yuji be equal to Sukuna.

And I’ve already explained to you why that is the case. Also these statements don’t dispute the fact that Yuji can grow stronger than Gojo. In fact Gojo himself stated he believed Megumi had more potential and skill than Yuji, so this in turn further supports that Gojo viewed his students as capable of growing stronger than him. And the statement by Uruame just PROVES that Yuji’s potential and strength is greater than Sukuna’s because Uruame made that statement without knowing about Yuji’s second cursed technique or his immortal body.

"Explosion". I already explained why you're just wrong but let me tell you that to have enough output to kill grade 3-4 curses after those kms... isnt that impressive compared to Sukuna and Gojo man.

And I already explained to you why you’re incorrect. For someone that likes to talk about the narrative and what that means, you sure do like to ignore the clear narrative intent with portraying an explosion that large. The reason it’s so impressive is because Yuji was able to kill so many curses from so far away and produce such a large explosion, you have yet to address these facts and have simply opted to just saying its not impressive, which isn’t an argument. Prove Sukuna is capable of doing any feat such as this so casually as Yuji has done, otherwise it’s leagues above him.

First off that's not what Sukuna says:

He says he can move unhindered because Megumi doesn't have control over his actual flesh/body like Yuji did so he couldn't resist Sukuna's control, but his entire CURSED ENERGY OUTPUT was lowered to below even 10%, that would indeed affect his physical body, what isn't affected is his control over the body.

That's why they were even harming 16F Sukuna and actually keeping up that much without being killed, we literally see how an actual 16F Sukuna upon regainin all his output could just blitz someone comparable to Yuta in speed and even superior physically (Ryu).

Since you previously differed to lightning as a reliable source, I’ll do the same. Here lighting clarifies that what Sukuna is referring to is his cursed technique output and NOT his physical output.

Thats why Yuta was still able to keep up with Gojo and Sukuna’s fight as they’re obviously faster than 10% of 16f Sukuna. Also 16f Sukuna was still able to keep up with Maki despite the fact that Megumi confirmed that Toji (Maki’s equal) was faster than 3f Sukuna, which further proves that Sukuna’s physical stats weren’t nerfed as much as per Lightning’s translation clarifies.

10% of 16F Sukuna was indeed enough to harm people that were special grade level sorcerers level physically, which is way more impressive than like 1% output of yuji's dismantle killing grade 3-4 curses lol.
And did you just say Yuji "ate" those dismantles...? He was still being cut it was just superficial which allowed him to get close enough. 10% 16F Sukuna would still "scale" comparable to CG Yuji here via those cuts.

That wasn’t what my question was. And you keep trying to downplay Yuji’s feat by not proving the actual context of the feat. For somebody that likes to talk about narrative, at least be honest with the narrative in questions it was just grade 3-4 curses lmao, it was a literal army of cursed spirits, enough to produce several kilometer wide explosions and was launched casually from several kilometers away. Prove 10% of Sukuna’s output is capable of performing such a feat, I know you can’t because there’s such feat present for Sukuna.

And yeah Yuji ate those dismantles. He literally withstood a whole bombardment of them. And yet you claim each one of those many dismantles is equivalent to the feat Yuji pulled off in Modulo. Absolute insanity, and the fact that you wanna talk about “narrative” while claiming that was the narrative portrayal of Yuji’s feat is even more crazy.

By lying and just making false equivalences yea you are. You are trying to use them not knowing the techniques as proof for why they were wrong on his physicals.

No I’m providing direct and clear cut evidence which you fail to be able to address or properly respond to, which is why you have to resort to false accusations and denial of the argument I presented instead of actually addressing them. I’m explaining why they don’t scale and for what reasons.

It's completely headcanon to say that it DIDN'T show everything because Usami even complains about Ui Ui just recording what he wants alongside that the whole intent that Ui Ui had was to show power and strength to the current generation as they had forgotten, he wanted to show everyone the brutality that living beings can do. Why would he stop the recording before the very thing that would just show them even more what living beings can do, and an destruction just like Gojo and Sukuna left off? Once again clutching at straws man. And the video wasn't edited what? Where did you get this from? The one who made the simurians look good was their "sources" that told them about Dabura, the video wasn't modified to make Dabura look good because nothing in the video would even make Dabura look bad per se as they simply said "Mahoraga appeared" so they didn't see that Yuka, a child, summoned it. So all they saw was Mahoraga fighting Dabura for apparent no reason, there was no need to modify the video, they just lied about it.

No it’s complete headcanon to say everything was recorded and shown. In fact we even KNOW that everything wasn’t depicted since Yuka’s whole presence is omitted and the cause for the fight is completely unknown to the public. And again you keep failing to address what I said and keep arguing with the imaginary ghosts in your head. I didn’t say Ui-Ui stopped recording I said there can be parts that he’s simply unable to record such as Dabura’s light speed kick due to how fast it was. You don’t know and it’s completely headcanon to say it appears in the video. Also nice contradiction, you said “EVERYTHING” was recorded but also say they didn’t see Yuka summon Mahoraga. Okay so then not “everything” was recorded then or shown to the public, so thanks for just proving that point.

"clearly significantly faster than them" genuinely you are NEVER proving this outside of Dabura's acceleration man, and why are you acting like Gojo and Sukuna werent blitzing each other aswell?? Do you mean blitzing the viewer? You can not be using "Blitzing the viewer" as an argument here... surely not...

Dabura can still react to himself moving at light speed and also his own regular beam attacks move at light speed as well so no actually it’s quite EASY to prove Dabura’s significantly faster. And I’m not acting like Sukuna and Gojo can’t do that, that’s just continuing to strawman me and argue with the imagined argument you made up.

....what? Genuinely what did you mean to say here, I understood 1% of it. To answer what I understood, yes, Dabura could do such manipulation of cursed energy cause thats something you just do on instinct, even fearsome womb arc Yuji who had 0 CE control was able to put Cursed energy into his own fist when under emotions which was the case for Dabura here aswell, no way you think Dabura just sucks that much, I literally even gave you the Todo example for that exact reason:

Prove Dabura can do it instinctually. Just because one sorcerer is able to something on instinct doesn’t mean another can do the same. You’re literally going off of headcanon and just asserting that’s what’s happening and that Dabura can ever perform such a maneuver when he’s never demonstrated such in the series before.

(He does it instinctively like every sorcerer does, Mahito is the biggest example of sorcerers passively and instinctively protecting their own body and even soul when in danger)

You’re literally talking about a distinctly different thing. Wha Todo did was concentrate all of his cursed energy into a single point. This is different than what Yuji did which was just focus on utilizing basic cursed energy to begin with.

And you completely missed the point on the Gojo and Sukuna thing so let me rephrase: Sukuna blocks a 120% Hollow Purple -> A 120% Hollow purple would at the very least be 3x stronger than Gojo himself. (As regular hollow purple would already be above a 2.5x black flash, adding the 120% it would reach 3x bare minimum) -> This means that, with CE reinforcement, Sukuna and block something which is at THE VERY LEAST (and it should be way superior and you know) 3x stronger than him.

No you completely missed the point. Gojo’s 120% HP annihilated both of Sukuna’s arms. Gojo’s basic punches don’t do nearly as much damage to Sukuna. Ergo, something 3x stronger than Gojo’s regular attacks is capable of blowing off both of Sukuna’s arms. This has nothing to do with Sukuna concentrating more cursed energy into his arms to block the attack, that’s just the natural result of an attack being able to produce more damage.

If a car hits me at 60 miles an hour, that’s going to hurt a lot more and damage me far more than if I got hit by a car traveling at 20 miles an hour, you understand?

Todo, who didn't have as much cursed energy as Sukuna still managed to block a black flash from Mahito that should have killed him aswell on instinct.

And this also required Todo to concentrate all of his cursed energy to a single point, again something which you still have yet to prove Dabura is capable of doing and has the instincts for.

Dabura blocking and breaking Mahoraga's sword means N O T H I N G.

No it does mean something. It shows Dabura got S T R O N G E R. In each of the examples you showed, the characters N E V E R demonstrated surpassing the thing they were just defending against like Dabura did with Mahoraga.

Especially when as I said Mahoraga's durability, INCLUDING HIS SWORD, is not linear as seen during all of the Gojo VS Sukuna fight. Mahoraga's sword was able to just straight up block two Black Flashes in a row from Gojo with not even a crack on it. The same Black Flash sent Sukuna to dreamland and very clearly damaged him alot. This is because Mahoraga had adapted to his physicals (and even black flash itself as the last spin happened in the moment Sukuna got black flashed) yet when it came to something Mahoraga hadn't adapted to (Hollow Purple), it vaporized him yet Sukuna lived. Does this mean Sukuna got stronger?!?!? He took something that Mahoraga didn't even tho Mahoraga was taking stuff 2.5x than him before!??! (No, his durability just isn't linear and if he hasn't adapted to X, X can still break him)

Especially when Mahoraga WAS JUST BEATING ON DABURA. Which shows that their stats were relative before for Mahoraga to be able to wound Dabura in the first place. And after adaptation Mahoraga only becomes stronger and more durable to attacks. So the fact that Dabura could break Mahoraga’s sword that was just beating on him WITH THE PALM OF HIS HAND is demonstrative and shows he got physically stronger.

That was not the point. It was to say that Dabura didn't "increase thousands of times" here unless you wanna say Dabura sucked that Mahoraga actually just fully adapted to the point he could keep up with someone that BY YOUR LOGIC, just got thousands of times stronger in a second. The amount of strech you're doing will make you reach Jupiter.

Again you really like arguing with the ghosts inside your head instead of me since you’re still not addressing what I said or even providing an actual contradiction. There was no thousands of times stronger, that’s just a strawman you came up with for my argument. And Mahoraga is able to adapt to freaking infinite pressure in not a lot of time just off of Liquid Metal. Mahoraga was already shown to adapt multiple times to Dabura once he started doing the light speed kick. Him being able to keep up with Dabura isn’t a contradiction.

...Why are you speaking of things like that? That doesn't make Dabura physically stronger, this point is just null lol. I don't deny he learned way more after that, he starts learning new techniques and calls earth's sorcery advanced. That's it, that's how he "gets stronger", he's fighting properly and like a true warrior now, but he DID NOT GET STRONGER.

It does mean Dabura got physically stronger as I’ve already proven to you, your argument is moot lol. The mentality he achieved and his efforts to push himself to new heights which he didn’t achieve before resulted in him getting stronger. Dabura GOT STRONGER.

We do indeed not witness Dabura get physically stronger, nice headcanon though, a change in mentality simply makes sorcerers tune in more with their power and attune them because of how emotions allow you to connect with cursed energy more like how Yuji turns his fear into cursed energy against Choso or how he turns his emotions into it aswell back in the fearsome arc.
This would all also need statements, Dabura's statements just directly contradict the intent being "He gets stronger now!", just read Doula's own dialogue man. He literally says strength is N O T what makes you a warrior and acknowledges that Dabura already has the strength of a true warrior but he will never be one because he has never truly "fought", he never truly had the mentality of one, but that's irrelevant for STRENGTH. You are genuinely going against Doula's own words and intent on his speech to Dabura. He was trying to say that getting and being stronger will not make Dabura a warrior, and you think that the way Dabura saw this and decided to turn into a warrior... was by getting stronger. Narrative intent thrown out the window, we need Dabura upscale!!

We do directly witness Dabura get stronger, you can cope all you want about it though. Those examples you bring up about Yuji and Choso also further support and show that a change in mentality allows you to grow stronger. Yuji being able to utilize cursed energy at all thanks to his mental breakthrough was the whole basis for him getting so much stronger in fact. Just read Dabura’s own dialogue too man. What does he say when he’s literally pushing himself past his limits to do his light speed kick? Oh yeah “catch up to the warriors!!” His warrior mentality was directly contributed to his STRENGTH since we even see him PUSH HIMSELF to new heights of STRENGTH in order to reach the warriors. He’s saying that to be a true warriror, it’s not about fighting because you want to, it’s about fighting because you HAVE to. In order to PROTECT the people you care about. You think Dabura literally pushing himself to new STRENGTHS in order to become a warrior isn’t related to him growing stronger?? Even though he’s saying as much??? Narrative who? We need Dabura downscale!!!

Promotional Material and outside of the story statements can be used if they are consistent with what the story says, in this case, it is, unless you can prove otherwise, they are usable due to matching the in-story narrative and statements.

And they can also be dismissed when further evidence comes to light that calls those statements into question. In this case, it is as I’ve directly proven. There’s a clear misunderstanding you seem to have regarding light speed.

Going light speed isn’t just a speed feat. It a feat towards power and durability as well.

 

[ZERO7772]

Bro, this whole "awakened" Dabura is silly. His base stats don't change outside of him charging at light speed. Dabura was already shrugging off Maho's attack before this whole "warriors" thing happened.

The only "new" thing he unlocked was RCT. He always had the light-speed kick amongst his arsenal, he just never used it before.

 

[BiggestOpp]

Bro, this whole "awakened" Dabura is silly. His base stats don't change outside of him charging at light speed. Dabura was already shrugging off Maho's attack before this whole "warriors" thing happened.

The only "new" thing he unlocked was RCT. He always had the light-speed kick amongst his arsenal, he just never used it before.

The shrugging off in question:

 

[Arkenis]

There’s gotta be a content ban on grasping at straws for scaling. This Dabura stuff almost as bad as Kny 7b.

 

[BoastJr]

UNOFFICIAL VSBW AURA FARMING TOURNAMENT !

We’re introducing a tournament inspired by the UEFA Champions League — but instead of football, this is pure aura competition. Characters face off in matches where the only thing that matters is who delivers the better aura moments. No scaling. No shortcuts. Just arguments. At the end, only...

vsbattles.com

 

[Electronic74947]

There’s gotta be a content ban on grasping at straws for scaling. This Dabura stuff almost as bad as Kny 7b.

Ark......you're forgetting what site we're on