Chaotic Honkai Verse Upgrade (1-A & L1-A)

[SuperNova55555]

i thought this was obvious at most i can see H1B for imaginary space since it exists in infinite amounts but low 1-A i can only see for the cocoon since it affects all possible dimensions and is non-dimensional. i was just under the belief yog's space exists above the cosmology and therefore above the imaginary space since only us the reader can reach her

Imaginary Subspace exists in infinite amounts, not Imaginary Space (where Cocoon is). Them being the same is js a TL error

 

[Mbpoops]

Imaginary Subspace exists in infinite amounts, not Imaginary Space (where Cocoon is). Them being the same is js a TL error

just sounds like aeon downgrade to me YESYESTYESYES

 

[Weaver261]

Low 1-A is no longer possible. The argument Nova used in the original thread was tied to the Imaginary Space, but the downgrade accepted that the Imaginary Space is subject to dimensionality.

Iirc, it was because of SoQ being 11D and that's what I am trying to disprove here.
The core of L1-A downgrade was based on the misconception that Imaginary tree is born from SoQ which isn't the case and the scan about it was a localization error.
Since imaginary tree which contains imaginary space doesn't grow through 11D SoQ, L1-A can be still valid.

 

[SuperNova55555]

just sounds like aeon downgrade to me YESYESTYESYES

Aeons by definition cannot be above Low 2-C lol. Since they’d only ever scale to the HSR Tree of which only a single timeline exists, since the “parallel leaves” or wtvr only exist in Hi3.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Iirc, it was because of SoQ being 11D and that's what I am trying to disprove here.
The core of L1-A downgrade was based on the misconception that Imaginary tree is born from SoQ which isn't the case and the scan about it was a localization error.
Since imaginary tree which contains imaginary space doesn't grow through 11D SoQ, L1-A can be still valid.

Imaginary Space is completely separate to the Tree (since IS is the origin of the universe, not part of it), so it doesn’t scale to it. And both SoQ and IT have dimensionality statements.

 

[Mbpoops]

This likely won’t be the case if we assert that SoQ is part of Real Space.

i do want to ask though do you have ANY proof that the soq is apart of real space? we have provided immense amount of evidence that says otherwise.

Issue with Chaos being L1A is that the justification itself isn’t enough, since it is bound by the size of Space-Time. (Also it likely being identical to SoQ makes it dimensional nevertheless)

issue is that chaos is just the nature of the soq

 

[Mbpoops]

Imaginary Space is completely separate to the Tree (since IS is the origin of the universe, not part of it), so it doesn’t scale to it. And both SoQ and IT have dimensionality statements.

and do you have ANY proof that the hsr universe is on a completely different tree? welt vita sparkle and sampo were able to travel between the hi3 and hsr verse rather easily so i doubt they are on different trees (replied to the wrong thing brain get jumbled from writing a crt and doing this while rushing)

 

[SuperNova55555]

i do want to ask though do you have ANY proof that the soq is apart of real space? we have provided immense amount of evidence that says otherwise.

The first scan I posted this thread.

and do you have ANY proof that the hsr universe is on a completely different tree? welt vita sparkle and sampo were able to travel between the hi3 and hsr verse rather easily so i doubt they are on different trees (replied to the wrong thing brain get jumbled from writing a crt and doing this while rushing)

They are technically the same Tree, but they have contradictory interpretations. I’m saying Aeons (like Nous) only scale to the HSR interpretation of a single timeline.

 

[Mbpoops]

The first scan I posted this thread.

this was already addressed by plungin earlier in the thread

They are technically the same Tree, but they have contradictory interpretations. I’m saying Aeons (like Nous) only scale to the HSR interpretation of a single timeline.

interesting take.. not sure how i feel abt this ngl

 

[Weaver261]

Imaginary Space is completely separate to the Tree (since IS is the origin of the universe, not part of it), so it doesn’t scale to it. And both SoQ and IT have dimensionality statements.

Now you are saying different things. If you believe imaginary space is separated from the tree, L1-A shouldn't be a problem.

Also imaginary tree is stated the same way as imaginary space.
Here and here. Also becoming part of imaginary space is the same as being a slave to the tree.

 

[SuperNova55555]

this was already addressed by plungin earlier in the thread

And how was it addressed again…?

interesting take.. not sure how i feel abt this ngl

That’s what you get when a series contradicts itself

Now you are saying different things. If you believe imaginary space is separated from the tree, L1-A shouldn't be a problem.

Can you show me where Imaginary Space was proposed for L1A in this thread? I only remember SoQ being a point here, and the only point I’ve been contending regarding L1A.

Here and here. Also becoming part of imaginary space is the same as being a slave to the tree.

These don’t imply what you’re saying. Slave is an exceedingly vague word. My scans literally say that it’s the origin of the universe, unless you want to claim IT ≠ Universe

 

[Weaver261]

Can you show me where Imaginary Space was proposed for L1A in this thread?

Are you still lost in the sauce?????
I don't propose L1-A here cuz L1-A was old scaling you yourself made and only downgraded due to misconceptions.

I am trying to remove those misunderstandings to get back to L1-A. Are you clear now?

These don’t imply what you’re saying. Slave is an exceedingly vague word. My scans literally say that it’s the origin of the universe, unless you want to claim IT ≠ Universe

You know how durandal got there when she quoted the words about Imaginary space being origin of universe? She went to the tree using the route made by second divine key.
Nova, I am being serious. Just play Honkai impact 3rd instead of relying on second hand informations and It will make sense to you

 

[SuperNova55555]

Are you still lost in the sauce?????
I don't propose L1-A here cuz L1-A was old scaling you yourself made and only downgraded due to misconceptions.

I am trying to remove those misunderstandings to get back to L1-A. Are you clear now?

Sea of Quanta will be L1-A for being the embodiment of all things which serves as the background for space and time and all kind of possibilities.

?

You know how durandal got there when she quoted the words about Imaginary space being origin of universe? She went to the tree using the route made by second divine key.

And this proves your point because…?

 

[Mbpoops]

And how was it addressed again…?

look back in the thread bro gonna be busy for the rest of the day so ill leave things here for now on my part

 

[SuperNova55555]

look back in the thread bro gonna be busy for the rest of the day so ill leave things here for now on my part

I’m assuming he’s saying that Durandal used IS for traverse to IT, ye? How does that make them part of the same structure if so

 

[Weaver261]

?

I meant to say primordial chaos and not 11D bulk but that part came later so I forgot.

And this proves your point because…?

Going to the tree = going to imaginary space.

Otto: To make a long story short, the subject of our experiment will be a special bubble universe contained within Durandal’s body.

Otto: We will depart from the Sea of Quanta, seek a passage leading to Imaginary Space, and then try to artificially link it to the Imaginary Tree.

Not long ago, she went deep into the hinterlands of Imaginary Space and escaped successfully with the support of her friends.

The whole plan of imaginary renormalization on Otto infinite power is due to special property of imaginary space.

Durandal: Before, when the Holy Blade Durandal linked the bubble universe to the Imaginary Tree, the 2nd Divine Key captured something extraordinary.

Nagamitsu: At that moment, the two nodes matching finiteness and infinity underwent random property switches.

Nagamitsu: Which is to say, when the space linked to the Imaginary Tree changes, in the neighboring area…

???: The miracle that could only come from the Herrscher of the Void, the renormalisation of Imaginary Space, and the meaning of infinity and stasis.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Going to the tree = going to imaginary space.

Either there’s a shitton of context I’m missing or the scans are just straight-up not saying that.

 

[Weaver261]

Either there’s a shitton of context I’m missing or the scans are just straight-up not saying that.

Just play Honkai impact or accept what knowledgeable members are saying. It's not like we are lying to y'all without proofs. The context for renormalization is that Otto imaginary energy supply is infinite due to being a slave of imaginary tree. To defeat him, Kiana needs a moment of finite and they used renormalization which is a property of imaginary space exchanging two different states. The scans straight up says the same thing with both the tree and the space.

Durandal: Before, when the Holy Blade Durandal linked the bubble universe to the Imaginary Tree, the 2nd Divine Key captured something extraordinary.

Nagamitsu: At that moment, the two nodes matching finiteness and infinity underwent random property switches.

???: The miracle that could only come from the Herrscher of the Void, the renormalisation of Imaginary Space, and the meaning of infinity and stasis.

Einstein: The imaginary renormalisation… It can be a special exchange defined in Imaginary Space, just as Nagamitsu described.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Just play Honkai impact or accept what knowledgeable members are saying.

I am reading it. I'm js not that far into but whatever since you forced me to go read stuff way beyond where I'm at for this thread :

^ These pretty much tell me that Imaginary Space is just a medium to connect to the Tree, not that they're the same thing.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Since when did we conclude this?

Actually, this has been accepted for a very long time, it's just that no one has cared much about GGZ up until now. Partly because of it's inaccessibility to a large majority of non CN people, regardless there are collabs between the two games and they even stress about whether characters from HI3 going into GGZ are from bubble worlds or the main universe. While I'm not trying to argue they are the exact same series, this at the very least strongly suggests they are apart of the larger hoyo universe, and that's without including the blatant similarities of terms, characters, locations, concepts, energy systems, etc between the two games

 

[SuperNova55555]

Actually, this has been accepted for a very long time, it's just that no one has cared much about GGZ up until now. Partly because of it's inaccessibility to a large majority of non CN people, regardless there are collabs between the two games and they even stress about whether characters from HI3 going into GGZ are from bubble worlds or the main universe. While I'm not trying to argue they are the exact same series, this at the very least strongly suggests they are apart of the larger hoyo universe, and that's without including the blatant similarities of terms, characters, locations, concepts, energy systems, etc between the two games

Mannn idk how to feel about collabs

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Fair point, I was just trying to add some extra layer of credibility that wasn't just word of mouth. Collabs can be pretty hit or miss tbf

 

[Mbpoops]

I am reading it. I'm js not that far into but whatever since you forced me to go read stuff way beyond where I'm at for this thread :

^ These pretty much tell me that Imaginary Space is just a medium to connect to the Tree, not that they're the same thing.

I wanna give my opinion on this.

While the tree does has imaginary properties and imaginary space(s) the overall “bulk” or “medium” of the imaginary space exists outside the tree at least in my opinion. It seems illogical to think all imaginary space exists within the tree given aeons like nous prune the tree, the CoF exists above any known dimension (in imaginary space), and many other things it would be weird if nous was pruning the tree from inside the tree. Thats just my opinion tho

 

[Weaver261]

These pretty much tell me that Imaginary Space is just a medium to connect to the Tree, not that they're the same thing

I am also not saying they are the same thing. I am saying that imaginary space is part of the tree. They are not separated like u suggested.

You can't be more explicit than this

Nagamitsu: Your current location is still under the influence of the Sea of Quanta. If you go any further, you’ll be completely within the realm of the Imaginary Tree.

This dialogue was said before durandal go to imaginary space

 

[Mbpoops]

I wanna give my opinion on this.

While the tree does has imaginary properties and imaginary space(s) the overall “bulk” or “medium” of the imaginary space exists outside the tree at least in my opinion. It seems illogical to think all imaginary space exists within the tree given aeons like nous prune the tree, the CoF exists above any known dimension (in imaginary space), and many other things it would be weird if nous was pruning the tree from inside the tree. Thats just my opinion tho

Moreover this would out the imaginary space above the tree and sea in terms of dimensionality making it 12D (which is where the 12D HDE comes from lol)

 

[SuperNova55555]

I am also not saying they are the same thing. I am saying that imaginary space is part of the tree. They are not separated like u suggested.

Then how does IT scale to IS?

This dialogue was said before durandal go to imaginary space

And this proves your point because???

 

[Weaver261]

it would be weird if nous was pruning the tree from inside the tree. Thats just my opinion tho

What nous is doing with the tree is related to the timeline and the branches. You guys can imagine imaginary space as some sort of administration room where I can manipulate the tree

 

[Mbpoops]

Unless you’re arguing imaginary space is 11D because tree = sea i cant see ims existing in the tree personally

 

[Weaver261]

Then how does IT scale to IS?

Same scale since imaginary space is inside imaginary tree.

And this proves your point because???

The dialogue explicitly said "within the realm of imaginary tree"

Nagamitsu: Your current location is still under the influence of the Sea of Quanta. If you go any further, you’ll be completely within the realm of the Imaginary Tree.

When durandal went further, where did she reach? Imaginary space

 

[Mbpoops]

Same scale since imaginary space is inside imaginary tree.

The dialogue explicitly said "within the realm of imaginary tree"

When durandal went further, where did she reach? Imaginary space

Well yea i dont think anyone disagrees that the tree has imaginary spaces and properties, its just that the larger space or “medium” if the imaginary space exists outside the tree

 

[SuperNova55555]

Same scale since imaginary space is inside imaginary tree.

NO?????? That's not how this works lmao.

Firstly, not only can Proper Class (aspatiotemporal realms) contain Sets (spatiotemporal realms) as subsets of themselves, but if IT is of significantly comparative size to IS, then that js delimits IS to IT's level.

 

[Weaver261]

Unless you’re arguing imaginary space is 11D because tree = sea i cant see ims existing in the tree personally

The tree real space in total can remains in 4D or 2A whatever that match up with the sea being L1-C. Imaginary space will get L1-A back and those who scale to the IMS will get the scale. It's not that hard

 

[Weaver261]

Firstly, not only can Proper Class (aspatiotemporal realms) contain Sets (spatiotemporal realms) as subsets of themselves, but if IT is of significantly comparative size to IS, then that js delimits IS to IT's level.

I think you guys are confused about the term of "Imaginary tree". When I say the tree, it includes both real space and imaginary space according to the lore.
Because Imaginary tree isn't just real space with different space times.
Imaginary space being inside the tree doesn't limit the space to the size of tree's real space but the tree totality includes IMS too. It's like saying higher dimension is just 93 billion light years cuz it is inside the universe. The term doesn't necessarily indicates the size

 

[SuperNova55555]

The dialogue explicitly said "within the realm of imaginary tree"

What chapter is this, I need the raws

I think you guys are confused about the term of "Imaginary tree". When I say the tree, it includes both real space and imaginary space according to the lore.
Because Imaginary tree isn't just real space with different space times.
Imaginary space being inside the tree doesn't limit the space to the size of tree's real space but the tree totality includes IMS too. It's like saying higher dimension is just 93 billion light years cuz it is inside the universe. The term doesn't necessarily indicates the size

Sigh.

 

[Weaver261]

What chapter is this, I need the raws

Immortal blades chapter

Sigh

It's actually simple. The term doesn't indicates the size. The tree isn't limited to the size of real space. You are saying like you can't fit a car inside a cup without considering the possibility that the cup can be the size that can fit a car

 

[SuperNova55555]

It's actually simple. The term doesn't indicates the size. The tree isn't limited to the size of real space. You are saying like you can't fit a car inside a cup without considering the possibility that the cup can be the size that can fit a car

This analogy doesn't even work lol. The IT is explicitly the universe itself and the conglomerate of Space-Times (leaves). This is explicitly clear in both Hi3 and especially HSR. Unless, of course, you want to claim that IT actually extends beyond the branches and leaves, which is just not true as that's Imaginary Subspace which is still spatiotemporal nonetheless.

 

[Mbpoops]

The tree real space in total can remains in 4D or 2A whatever that match up with the sea being L1-C. Imaginary space will get L1-A back and those who scale to the IMS will get the scale. It's not that hard

Real space is 4D/2A for having infinite parrellel worlds the sea is l1c for being a container and separator of infinite parellel worlds (each varying in dimensions and laws) and having its own time axis. Imaginary space would only be 1C with the current scaling for being above the soq… unless we address the compactifications in the soq (never stated)

 

[SuperNova55555]

Immortal blades chapter

Alr so the raws do seem to be saying that. Prolly means that Imaginary Space is explicitly = Sea of Quanta, since it literally juxtaposes it as such lol. Which uh, delimits IS to wherever SoQ scales to. So that's js L1C at best

 

[Mbpoops]

Nice job you just limited the imaginary space to the tree!

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Okay, I agree with Low 1-C Primordial Chaos/Sea of Quanta then. Yog Sothoth should be downgraded to that level.