TenSura WN Revision — Back to Tier 1 (Recreated)

[Astral_Trinity439]

Introduction​

Hello everyone, hope y'all are doing well. Since the previous CRT was kinda nuked spammed with the unrelated topic of hypertimelines and all that, I got permission from staff to recreate it. And, by the suggestion of multiple supporters on that CRT, added the hypertimeline stuff as well this time.

And, just a heads up so it doesn't turn into the same thing as the last CRT, PLEASE avoid arguing if you don't even know the standards of vsbw on infinites and tier 1.... You're not helping, really.

As always, do not make derailing posts that have nothing to contribute to the thread itself. Do not engage in toxic behavior in anyone!

Tables of Contents​

4th Dimension (Removed)

Imaginary Number Space (INS) (Removed)

Hyper Timeline
Ah yes, the topic that derailed the entire god damn thread last time (the title is red cuz of that...)

Spoiler: UNDUS MUNDUS

Well, for starters, since "some" people were having too much fun trolling, (Which I hope that trolling is left in that thread and not this one), I'll specify what All of Time is.

All of Time
Well, for starters, "All Time" is Infinite.

Because Time is infinite and his lifespan was as well
時間は無限にあり、彼の寿命にも限りが無いのだから。

AND something outside All Time is considered beyond Time itself.

Bathed in the flow of all time and received the repulsion of the space trying to fix itself, the target is sent to beyond time.
　全ての時間の流れを一身に浴び、固定しようとする空間の反発を受けて、対象を時の彼方へと葬り去る。

Something thrown outside All Time is considered to be "swallowed by the space time continuum"

Even all of Rimuru's clones were completely swallowed up by the Space-Time Continuum
時空連続体としての、リムルに連なる分身体までも全て根こそぎ巻き込んで……。

Question: Is the "infinite lifespan" thing consistent? (Outside of Hypertimelime related feats and before chapter 248)

Answer: Yes. Here are a few examples, not just from Yuuki(a spiritual lifeform) but even lesser stages like semi spiritual lifeforms.

Compared to Grucius, Myulan’s circumstances are far more
complicated.
She was originally a witch. Persecuted by humans, she was on the run around 300 years ago. After uncovering the secrets of evolution, she bestowed its benefits unto herself.
That is, she gained eternal youth.

As for why she is currently serving Demon Lord Clayman, that would be because of a deal they made.
Chapter 49

‘Turn a body of flesh into that of a Spirit Form for a certain amount of time’
That was the hidden power of God-tier armour.nA Spirit Form, in other words, a God-like Being.
Veldora was like that, and speaking of which, I was too.
I didn’t pay much attention, but it was certainly a state close to being immortal.
Eternal youth was guaranteed, along with a strong degree of immortality.
Chapter 164

(Immortality here means "hard to kill")

Such thing as going to war with no chance of winning was nonsense.
The country can be rebuild, it wasn’t something she need to be concerned with.
Ruminas and her kin has eternal life, there’s no reason for them to fight betting their life on it.
Chapter 216

There’s no way she’s alive.
Unlike Milim, who could live eternally, Salome was no more than one of the maids who served Lucia.
There was no way that Salome, who was a human, is still alive.
Chapter 239

And there he goes with his high pitched laughter…
So basically, since he has no lifespan, he needs no children!
That kind of thing?
His explanation dragged on, but it was pretty useful.
Storm Dragon Veldora… a dragon, huh?
Chapter 3

The reason is that when he was summoned to this world, his entire physical constitution was renewed and changed his body into a type of spirit life-form.
Thus, Yuuki exceeded the limits of this world.
Yuuki was convinced that his power would be equal to a Demon Lord in 10 years.
However, he couldn’t be careless.
Even is if he was certain of his power, when he noticed that his figure hadn’t changed at all, Yuuki had already noticed that his lifespan was no longer of concern.
It was unnecessary to get impatient. He would advance surely and carefully.
Chapter 132

For a short-lived human, gaining a mastery required for such treasures would be but a distant dream.
But even becoming a ghost with an unlimited lifespan, he was a soul who had not lost his talents as a Holy Knight.
Possibly being even better than Hakurou at swordsmanship, was Albert really not worthy of such equipment?
Chapter 164

However, Leon is a high ranking human who possess holy body.
He was an awakened Hero, which was similar to existence which don’t have lifespan but―― certainly it was depending on the physical body.
If he evolves to be a spiritual lifeform and become a demi god, the matter might have been different.
Chapter 213

The conditions in many of the Parallel Worlds minutely deviated from one another, which led them to achieve different evolutions. Meanwhile, he carefully chose humans with matured souls and created Angels and Demons as the manager of the souls without a lifespan. He constructed a system so that the souls circulated to all dimensions.
Chapter 248

A guardian spirit of the Treants. Among the monsters, she would rank among the top of A rank.
Many voiced their surprise when she entered.
Well duh, you’d be surprised. As I heard later, it’s been many hundreds of years since a Dryad “Layato” has last been seen.
With long life spans (immortal, actually) these women rarely leave their sacred dwellings.
You would normally be happy if they had sent a messenger.
Chapter 42

This problem, seemed to be on my end. I heard the voice of the world.
It seems, procreation becomes impossible after evolving from an Ogre to a Demon Lord.
Because the concept of life span would disappear, the ability to make a child does not seem necessary.
“Regretfully, until I complete my job as the leader of my species, I cannot complete the evolution….”
Chapter 162

There are more examples but these should be enough.

Summary: Yuuki's lifespan being infinite is NOT inconsistent with the series, it's a supporting proof that there's a hypertimeline.

Hyper-Time
Well, basically, "Dimensions/Worlds/Universes" (i.e., what encompasses the World-lines) have their own Hypertime.

For starters, here's a plot line:

• Before gaining Yog Sothoth (Reading Steiner), she could only travel to the normal past via her skill <time Travelled>. Now, however, after gaining Yog Sothoth, she can even travel to other World-lines.

――Are the things in the future decided too?
No, what is decided to that extend is unknown.
What I know is this moment now, when the True Hero awakened, only to that extent.
At the time I flew into the past, the Hero whose existence overlaps disappeared and is untied from all limitations.
That is, even though it’s an existence of the assimilated me and you, it can be said to be another person.
Chapter 124

Though it might be impossible, even if she calculated it with the Unique Skill 『Mathematician』 , however she understood that the possibility for this is improbable.
(But still, I can’t help but pray. Because to die is to give up and make the best use of my life for everyone........)
Hinata accepted the offer.
“Thank you,” she muttered in small voice to the girl, Chloe, Hinata and Chloe’s soul mixed together as one and leapt through the barrier of time.
To a far-off past.
And now, the endless journey of the girl called Chloe and Hinata begins.
Chapter 124

Because she went to the past together with Hinata’s Will, Chloe didn’t taste solitude. And under the tutoring of Hinata, an excellent teacher, she was able to learn all the skills that Hinata had known. Because of that the foundation was made......

――She awoke the Ultimate Skill 『Space-Time King (YogSothoth)』 ――

Thanks to this ability she was able to recall the future memory. It’s a thing that Chloe from previous iterations was not able to do.

Originally, Hinata’s 『Mathematician』 and 『Usurper』 were unified with 『Absolute Severance』 and 『Infinity Prison』 and she acquired Ultimate Skill 『Hope King (Sariel)』 .

This time, she absorbed the energy from Hinata’s Soul without a problem, so she could remain without being mixed, and Hinata’s soul could be revived in pure form. What it brought was an absolute power that rules over time and space.
Chapter 125

Author’s Note
Explanation time. I wrote it and was confused.

I notice that the consistency was sketchy and I couldn’t write freely when I began to think about the concept of time. Though it almost got mixed up several times, but is it alright?

I pray that there will be no fatal mistakes found in there.

This time Chloe succeeded in moving the World-Line!

Isn’t the World-Line volatility change by about 1%?

By the way, she acquired Reading Steiner too this time!
Chapter 125

Next up, even outside "All of Time", outside the Space Time Continuum, Time still flowed and Space still expanded and both ONLY stopped after reaching the end of Space and Time.

――Chrono Saltation――

　対象を時が終わる時空へと跳躍させる、究極の超時空魔法。
The Ultimate Super Space-Time Magic that forced the target to leap to space where time had ended.

The magic was formed by swallowing up all of the energy that filled the place and even the raging quakes in time.

Then, with that immeasurable energy, it took Rimuru away to the “End of Time and Space”.

時空連続体としての、リムルに連なる分身体までも全て根こそぎ巻き込んで……。
Even all of Rimuru’s clones were completely swallowed up by the space-time continuum……

If the “Soul Corridor” wasn’t closed, Rimuru’s subordinates and even Velgrind might also become the target of the magic.

All kind of resistance was futile against the terrifying and compelling force of this magic.

Chrono Saltation was impossible to be activated by Yuuki alone.

The reason was simple; it was a compound magic that required the activation of at least 2 or more magic at the same time. Moreover, the magic needed to be activated simultaneously by those with the exact same properties and qualities.

What Yuuki had put inside his prosthesis arm was a simple ultimate spell formula.

The effect was a reversal.

It was a spell formula to reverse the target’s magic effect.

Primitive Magic was a magic that reflected the user’s Will and it wouldn’t just activate because Yuuki understood what kind of magic to use.

Just by wishing it, the phenomenon was invoked. This characteristic was the reason why it was called as the Ultimate Magic.

By limiting the magic that Rimuru could use with Time Stop just now, Yuuki was able to induce Rimuru to activate magic that he desired.

The magic that Rimuru activated was simple and plain. That was nullification.

It was impossible to stop the magic if Rimuru were to try to analyze the magic that Yuuki activated. Given the time differences, the nullification wouldn’t catch up at the same time as Yuuki activated his magic.

Yuuki thought that way.

Instead, Yuuki induced Rimuru’s thoughts while showing his trump card and directed Rimuru to act like that in this situation.

Then, just as Yuuki had planned, Rimuru would activate the magic.

Everything was prepared by Yuuki and he had forced Rimuru to act splendidly, exactly as he wanted.

In the space where Genesis class’ energy collided and space-time quakes occurred, Yuuki had used Space-Time Magic: Time Stop.

Originally, there was no meaning of stopping time in Suspended World. It was impossible to stop further of what had stopped.

However, the circumstances were different this time due to Yuuki’s trick.

In order to nullify Yuuki’s magic, Rimuru had activated magic that had the same energy but with the opposite properties of Yuuki’s magic. His magic was reversed by Yuuki’s trick and transformed to magic with the same energy and properties as Yuuki’s magic.

By doing this, Yuuki met the conditions for activating Chrono Saltation.

Even if he added Time Stop to another Time Stop, the effect wouldn’t change.

However, it would cause drastic changes if he multiplied it.

Bathed in the flow of all time and received the repulsion of the space that tried to fix itself, the target was sent to beyond time.

To the “End of Time and Space”―― A void in the far off future where the end of time and space overlapped.

If he couldn’t defeat him, he only had to put off the issue――That was the decision Yuuki had made.

Rimuru was able to rival him, or maybe even surpass him.To fight head-on against a super-level being like Rimuru would be sheer stupidity.

The answer to that was sending Rimuru to the future and destroying the world in that chance.

At the very end, the difficulty of the game to destroy the world, that used to be boring and easy, jumped up insanely, but Yuuki only felt happiness now that he had cleared it.

Yuuki was very happy and showed a smile from the bottom of his heart.
Chapter 247

《This is the End of the World. It could also be referred to as the “End of Time and Space”. As for Veldora, he was isolated inside the『Imaginary Space』and completely protected, so please rest assured.》

I see. Veldora-san is alright.

Thank goodness….. Eh? This needlessly large and empty world is the “End of Time and Space”, she said?

Certainly, time doesn’t flow and is in a stopped state. I can’t sense the spread of space either…..

《Yes. In this world, the flow of time has stopped. The spread of space had ceased as well, and in accordance with the Law of Entropy, this world has arrived at nothingness.》

Has arrived? You are talking as if you have watched it?

《That’s right. We were hurled to beyond space and time due to Yuuki’s attack. The lifespan of the planet has already ended a long time ago, but the collapse of the world hasn’t yet been reached. From that I deduced, Yuuki probably couldn’t destroy the world itself yet. When he was at the phase where he destroyed the celestial bodies as well as the space-time continuum, I presume that Yuuki’s lifespan had come to an end. However, I can’t judge whether his wish was fulfilled or not. After that, we wandered around as we drifted in the space and I witnessed the end of this universe.》
Chapter 248

Then she continued her words

《Besides, you have not lost to Yuuki yet. You just have to go and defeat him now.》

Ciel-san casually said those words.

I just have to go and defeat him now? Does she mean to go back to the bygone past?

Can something like that be done……?

Chloe seemed to be able to read the memories of the future with Time Leap[6], but that was just an ability to return to your past self.

Besides, it couldn’t be activated while time was stopped.

Yuuki would carefully plan to block a way out like that by stopping time.
Chapter 248

Qualifications​

In order for something to qualify as a proper space-time continuum in regard to some feat usually one of two following two criteria should be met:

1. It is explicitly stated to be a "Space-time continuum" or something equivalent.
2. It fulfills the standards for being a universe-sized realm (see the first section of this page) and all of its time is also involved in its feat. I.e. the structure involved in the feat is the timeline of an entire universe.

• By default, the range of time manipulation is considered universal unless explicitly demonstrated or specified otherwise. In the case of time manipulation through gravity manipulation, it will be presumed to have a localized range instead of a universal one unless explicitly stated or demonstrated. Similarly, when utilizing pocket dimensions for time manipulation, it will not be presumed to possess a universal range unless explicitly indicated or shown.

From this, we can deduce a few things in summary:

1. Rimuru was sent outside All Time, beyond Time. It was done by reverse Time Stop, and since we assume the default range of that is Low 2-C, and that “All of Time" is Low 2-C as well, which means Rimuru HAS TO BE thrown a Low 2-C distance away.
2. Yuuki's Lifespan (which is infinite) would have ended in the "future" that Rimuru was transferred to. Time (which is also infinite, and equal to Yuuki's lifespan) would have ended as well.
3. This means whether Yuuki destroyed the Continuum or not, the hypertimeline is still necessary.
4. Chloe's ability (allowing her to time travel to different world-lines) didn't work because Time wasn't flowing.
5. Chrono Saltation is called "Super-Space-Time Magic", where in super is synonym with hyper.

Why is Orthogonality necessary here?
Some people brought up that in the previous CRT that this "time" could just be a parallel time, not a hyper time. Well, here's the thing, that's just not possible when it comes to Time & Infinities.

Time & Infinities (Theoretical Model)
You see, when we reach a point where "Time" of X ends whereas Time of Y hasn't ended as a timeline, it necessitates an orthgonal view of Time. I like to call this Infinite Unsynchronity.

Take, for example, two lines X and Y. Two Continuums. Two timelines. They have different flows of Time, but only finitely such. That is, let's say 5 years pass in X, then 10 years or 1 year would pass in Y. A finite difference. You can visualize these continuums as an acute angle between the two continuums.

Now, you see, both are flowing towards the X axis direction. Both have the same direction of time, essentially. Therefore, no matter how much time difference (finite) there is, the "end of time" (passage of eternity) will always be the same in the end. It's like how adding 1 to Infinity doesn't make it more than infinity (countable of course).

On the other hand, in orthogonality, we can imagine two continuums X and Y, we can imagine it as a Right-angle.

As you can see, the right angle is akin to that x-y axes themselves (which are orthogonal to each other). That is, no matter how much time passes on X, no matter how "long" X is, the entire x-axis is only a single instance, a single moment in time, a single point, on Y axis. So, even if, let's say, infinite time passes along X, even then, Y would remain as is. Because X and Y are orthogonal to each other.

Another easy way is to put it like this.
We know Rimuru was outside the continuum, yet he was drifting in some "space" under the flow of time. Well, this particular case of Space refers to the 5-Dimensional Space (albeit not significant or tierable)

Crossing between Universes and Higher Dimensions​

Speed isn't defined by any number of spatial dimensions but simply distance over time. Meaning that it is possible for 1-dimensional characters to be faster than those who cover many dimensions. And the distance between two timelines is defined as the 5th dimension (Or a 4th spatial dimension) that separates two or more universes. Said distance is often unknown as it could be anywhere between much smaller than the Universal radius and infinite. But such details are only known to those who can travel through additional spatial dimensions. For that reason, crossing Universes is unquantifiable for speed unless details are specifically stated.
Well, this means the space between Universes is by default 5D. That's insignificant in size, so it's not tierable, BUT the orthogonal direction is there.

Therefore, if, let's say, some form Time flows over that dimension too, it would by default have to be a different orthogonal direction. And since we assume by default that Time is infinite, it means if the higher dimension is temporal in nature instead of spatial, we by default assume it's significant.

Tier 2A : eternal/infinite timeline addition.

So as far I've read the Tier 2 in here on vs battle, I find out that it's divided on the basis of number of containers (Spacetime continuum) rather than very basic snapshots amount because If we go with amount of snapshots than it will all be equated to aleph 1 and division will not be possible...

vsbattles.com

So, in essence, yes, this higher "Time" is by default infinite and Orthodonal due to its nature.
Similar cases where hypertimelines have been accepted are:

Question: Does Yuuki destroying the continuum or not even matter?
Answer: No. No, whether Yuuki destroyed the Continuum or not does not matter, as Rimuru's still outside the continuum regardless while experiencing hyper time.

Question: How plausible is it that he destroyed the Continuum?
Answer: Very plausible. Yuuki could use the energy he had absorbed from others' combined attack (which scales to the hypertimeline "world") to destroy everything. The only problem is his lifespan, which is only immortal in the 4D sense (yes, higher degree of immortality type 1 is a thing based on temporal dimensions).

Each of them said their respective thoughts and altogether faced Yuuki.

Then, they unleashed their deadly attacks filled with their entire beings toward Yuuki.

――Everything was as Yuuki expected.

Right now, Yuuki could use all skills because of Origin Skill『Information Ruler Akashic Record』.

In other words, he could even devour energy completely using Gluttonous Lord Beelzebuth.

Yuuki sprouted a dark smile as the mass of energy enough to destroy the world was approaching in front of him.
Chapter 247

I instinctively knew that I warped to a different spot from before.

At the same time, I noticed that a mass of energy, that seemed to be able to destroy the world, was approaching toward my direction.

However, I didn’t panic and swallowed it whole in one gulp.

It was surprisingly delicious.

I seemed to have recovered the energy consumed by Time Warp.
Chapter 248

And apparently, the energy that I had eaten just now seemed to be full power attacks unleashed by Guy and everyone else toward Yuuki. I felt I did a bad thing, but I didn’t think it was a big deal since their attacks of that level would only strengthen Yuuki anyway.
Chapter 248

The statement in chapter 247 is confirmed by Rimuru in chapter 248 AFTER he returned from EoST AFTER witnessing the end of worlds that Yuuki couldn't destroy.

Plus, Yuuki has Beelzebuth, which can swallow the Universe along with its concept of time if let run amok (though again, lifespan limitations mean Yuuki would have already died by the time Beelzebub swallowed the World-Line/continuum, and not go any further.

However, the Mobius System?

A blackhole as a power reactor? Was this some kind of joke?

I didn’t understand it.

Were they that advanced in terms of science in this world…?

And how did they…

<<In other words, it’s a type of phase shift power reactor…>>

Please make it simple, easy to understand and brief.

<<…To put it simply, when something falls into the Collapser, the matter is converted into energy. It makes use of this phenomenon. By using two toruses, they affect each other and theoretically, would create infinite energy. That’s what they must have thought. But it’s far from perfect and incredibly dangerous.>>

Master Ciel’s explanation was hard to follow.

In other words, it was not simple at all. Still, I barely managed to understand.

Basically, it was an incomplete product.

The imperfect engine was out of control, leading to the current situation—that was all that I needed to understand.

If this continued to spread, it might swallow up the entire universe.

If that happened, would it also affect the other dimensions?

<<No. It will not affect the other dimensions. Only this universe will lose its progress and be returned to 0.>>

Oh. If it didn’t affect the other worlds, then I could just leave it and return home…

But Veldora was trying to save this world.

In that case, I would like to answer to his show of spirit.

But, was it even possible?

<<It’s simple. In a way, this is similar to Beelzebuth. The problem isn’t the release of positive energy, it’s the disappearance negative energy. However, the way of dealing with it is the same. As energy has a direction, you just need to control that…>>

I see.

Growthspeed = the movement of time. So when the world loses its power to expand, then it loses the concept of time as well.

If the expansion of the universe was positive energy, then the phenomenon in front of us now could be considered negative energy. Negative energy was special and was not something you could easily guard against.

Veldora was unaffected by almost every kind of interference wave.

That was how good his ‘Probability Manipulation’ was.

Had this been an attack from an enemy, it would have likely have no effect.

So even if the world was destroyed, Veldora would be returned to his dimension without feeling any effects from it.
After Stories — Visit to the Unknown, Part 18

Question: Time is infinite, so how could it end (how could Yuuki's lifespan end)?
Answer: This is a question that makes me wonder if the person asking it is either unknowledgeable on our tiering system or committing the ******** behavior of derailing + arguing for the sake of arguing without any substance.

Fortunately, I have a rather positive assumption always and will assume it's the prior, which I did in the last CRT and clarified. But since not everyone is reading both CRTs (ik y'all's asses are lazy ⁠ ͡⁠°⁠ ͜⁠ʖ⁠ ͡⁠°⁠) so I'll clarify this here again.

We have higher Infinities in vsbw:

Set Theory Explanation Page

The following is an explanation of the upper bounds of this wiki's Tiering System, namely the parts encompassed by Low 1-A and above, although the concepts presented here do have great influence on the functionings of much lower tiers. For information on the primary measuring stick used to...

vsbattles.fandom.com

In fact, that's why Hypertimes even exist, so saying it's an anti feat to Infinite time is like saying "time is not infinite cuz Hypertime exists". Or "this house is not the biggest in town cuz the town exists outside it" in plain English. That is, using two completely unrelated points and trying to merge them into a contradictory counter that debunks itself.

Also, if someone asks this question again (especially a few user), I will completely ignore you as instructed by the staff in private. So don't make it hard on either of us and do not troll unless you wanna get reported.

Summary​

First, Here is the cosmology blog:

Astral Trinity439/WN Cosmology Upgrade

vsbattles.fandom.com

Second, TL;DR

• World-Line: Low-2C
• World/Universe/Dimension: Low 1-C (5-D)

Meanwhile:

• Characters who scale wherever are:
  • Yuuki: Low 2-C Destructive Capacity (Overtime), Low 1-C (5-D) Attack Potency
    • There is a non-zero chance that Yuuki destroying the continuum, even over time, is considered not solid enough, so one may opt for a "possibilty Low 2-C destructive Capacity" instead. Note that this doesn't effect the 5D attack Potency ratings and 5D in general for Rimuru in any way.
  • Combined attack (Diablo, Milim, Guy, True Dragons, Ramiris, and a lot more): Low 1-C (5-D)(said by Rimuru to be capable of destroying the world itself).
    • For the sake of consistency, they won't get Low 1-C (5-D) destructive Capacity individually as they also have the same weakness as Yuuki, and will only have Low 1-C (5-D) Attack Potency.
  • Beelzebub: Low 1-C (5-D) (absorbed the combined attack + Can reset the entire dimension depending on the user)
  • Rimuru: Low 1-C (5-D)

Counter Arguments & Responses​

Spoiler: COUNTERS & RESPONSES

• Yuuki has only been said to have an infinite lifespan once. Isn't that a bit shaky?

Answer: Yuuki belongs to the species of "Spiritual lifeforms", which are repeatedly stated to have no/infinite lifespan, having eternal life, etc., at least 10 times in the series even before chapter 248.

• There's no proof that the hypertimeline (5D) was destroyed retroactively, and time not flowing is akin to a frozen river, not a river without water.

Answer: No. First off, the analogy of "frozen river" would only be valid if Time never flowed to begin with, and the world never ended.

Yet that is not the case as not only the world end, but time stopped flowing because they reached the "end".

If one says "end" just means an edge and not beyond that edge, well, that would only be true if Chloe's time travel still worked, which it didn't. It stopped working, because there was no time flowing .

Time does not "stop flowing" at the end of a river. To begin with, a flowing river means that there's some "end" where the water is falling down (cease to exist). So an actual example would be that all the water from the source ended, all the water fell below, and the river became dry, not frozen.

To top that off, we have this extremely blatant WoG from the reviews of chapter 248 just a few hours (or minutes) after it was released (which means the author didn't forget anything and answered with everything still in his mind):

[一言]
リルムを未来に吹っ飛ばしたから最低でもそこまで世界が存続するのが確定するのでは
クロエの能力で過去に精霊を送った時
確定し確認された過去を変更する事は出来ないのだから
そこでリルムが世界を見て存続を確認したらそこまでは壊れないという理屈になるはず
投稿者： フレーム
2014年 07月06日 22時55分
管理
　いや、到達する未来がなくなっているという風に考えていました。
　崩壊した世界で生き残れる存在なんていないよね、というのがユウキの計算。

　確認した情報は崩せないのですが、今回は二重の意味で無視してます。
伏瀬
2014年 07月06日 23時04分

Unfortunately, there is no accepted translation as the tl for the staff thread is already pending since weeks ಥ⁠‿⁠ಥ
May a kind soul appear and translate it :slimepray:

In any case, what it says is that the "future" (of the hypertimeline) does not exist in the point Rimuru has reached. And neither does the past as Chloe's time travel doesn't work. IF it was like a frozen river, both the past and the future would still exist, but that's clearly not the case here.

• What about the "End according to the Law of Entropy"?

Answer: First off, there's no "End of the Universe" where it reaches "Emptiness" in accordance to the Law of Entropy. Space also doesn't stop expanding and time doesn't stop flowing of even freeze (not even time stop). It's just a state of the Universe where no further action-reaciton occurs at large.

Heat death of the universe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Spontaneous Inflation and the Origin of the Arrow of Time

We suggest that spontaneous eternal inflation can provide a natural explanation for the thermodynamic arrow of time, and discuss the underlying assumptions and consequences of this view. In the absence of inflation, we argue that systems coupled to gravity usually evolve asymptotically to the...

arxiv.org

In particular, I think this video also explains pretty well how heat death is just a "state" of the Universe, not the ultimatum end where we reach "Emptiness", where space stops expanding or time stops flowing.

Second off, it is explained in the later chapters how end of the universe means returning to 0, not something like entropy's heat death.

Also, once again, what Fuse said above; Entropy doesn't have anything to do with the flow of time, so as per Fuse said, the future does not exist at EoST, meaning the "in accordance to the law of entropy" probably refers to something else. And given all the LARGE amounts of proof for space time stuff (this whole CRT), I think that entropy statement could be considered an outlier.

We don't even have any other WN source material to explain entropy (Fuse did not mention it in his WN impressions page across the 1400 pages ಥ⁠‿⁠ಥ), so best ignore it as an outlier.

FRIENDLY REMINDER FROM YOUR FELLOW WANKER, ASTRAL: PLEASE READ THE OP FULLY TO COMFIRM YOUR DOUBTS. IF YOU BRING UP A POINT THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN CLARIFIED IN THE OP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED AS WE DON'T WANT TO REPEAT THE SAME YAPPING SESSION AS LAST TIME. thank you.

Votes​

Agree:

Disagree:

Neutral/Miscellaneous:
__________________________________________________
Hope you had fun reading!
See you next time~ (⁠＾⁠3⁠＾⁠♪

 

[Robo432343]

agree

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

agree

aaaaaaaaaaaaaa
I agree to everything

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

agree

Damn it, how fast and active is bro

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

Damn it, how fast and active is bro

No, no, he won’t be able to defeat me. I’m just busy, as you know, and if it weren’t for that, I would have won easily

Anyway, please refrain from talking too much about matters unrelated to the original topic. Thank you.

 

[Adestral]

Agree

 

[Azertyhuuh]

I agree.

 

[BoastJr]

When will Rimuru solo hoyoverse (5D)

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

When will Rimuru solo hoyoverse (5D)

Bro's dropping red flags
The hoyo wankers are prolly seeing ds

 

[Velvian_can]

Disagree fra

 

[Antvasima]

@Reiner04 @Vietthai96 @ActuallySpaceMan42 @FinePoint

What do you think about this revision?

Here is the previous thread:

TenSura WN Revision - Back to Tier 1

Introduction Hello everyone, hope y'all are doing well. For the history of this thread, the original Tier 1 was nuked because of translation issues while the CRT I created later was paused due to irl issues. However, I decided it's best to create a new one because the reasons for tier 1 are...

vsbattles.com

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

@Reiner04 @Vietthai96 @ActuallySpaceMan42 @FinePoint

What do you think about this revision?

Here is the previous thread:

TenSura WN Revision - Back to Tier 1

Introduction Hello everyone, hope y'all are doing well. For the history of this thread, the original Tier 1 was nuked because of translation issues while the CRT I created later was paused due to irl issues. However, I decided it's best to create a new one because the reasons for tier 1 are...

vsbattles.com

Can you also @Qawsedf234 ? As he is knowledgeable on tier 1 and helped out on a previous thread regarding this

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

@Reiner04 @Vietthai96 @ActuallySpaceMan42 @FinePoint

What do you think about this revision?

Here is the previous thread:

TenSura WN Revision - Back to Tier 1

Introduction Hello everyone, hope y'all are doing well. For the history of this thread, the original Tier 1 was nuked because of translation issues while the CRT I created later was paused due to irl issues. However, I decided it's best to create a new one because the reasons for tier 1 are...

vsbattles.com

Can you tag :

@Elizhaa
@DarkDragonMedeus
@Qawsedf234

his is necessary

 

[Antvasima]

@Reiner04 @Vietthai96 @ActuallySpaceMan42 @FinePoint

What do you think about this revision?

Here is the previous thread:

TenSura WN Revision - Back to Tier 1

Introduction Hello everyone, hope y'all are doing well. For the history of this thread, the original Tier 1 was nuked because of translation issues while the CRT I created later was paused due to irl issues. However, I decided it's best to create a new one because the reasons for tier 1 are...

vsbattles.com

@Qawsedf234 @DarkDragonMedeus

Are you willing to help out here please?

 

[SuperNova55555]

I mean, kinda reading the scans (particularly the juxtaposition with “gates”) does give me the impression that the author probably thinks of teleportation in the sci-fi sense of “folding” space in a higher dimension in order to achieve it

 

[LadyVeldanava]

I agree with planet level.

 

[Ultimuru]

Read the post before and still agree

 

[Ferno1234]

I agree

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I mean, kinda reading the scans (particularly the juxtaposition with “gates”) does give me the impression that the author probably thinks of teleportation in the sci-fi sense of “folding” space in a higher dimension in order to achieve it

Well, if it helps, the author said he always wanted to write a sci Fi spinoff (he actually did) and wants to do the same for the LN. Should I include that?

(The WN sci Fi spinoff he did wrote, around half an year after WN main story ended, had stuff like Black Hole Engines, Type I and Type V civilizations, neutron/atomic/molecular/proton/electron stuff, perpetual energy systems, space related things and mucn more, so I think he's well familiar with how Wormholes work)

 

[Cipher72]

Agree with the first through third segments, neutral on the updated scaling proposed. (Should be star level)

 

[Furina003]

interesting, following

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

Looks fine to me
11-C Initialize heaven goes burrr

 

[Nissa_Ushiromiya]

I agree with everything. It's time to bring Rimuru back to his true Tier, he's been unfairly debunked for too long.

 

[Re5yh]

Agree

 

[Ultimuru]

I agree with everything. It's time to bring Rimuru back to his true Tier, he's been unfairly debunked for too long.

Actually he was never debunked. His tier got reverted.

 

[Bahaha]

Agree and following

 

[Yanina92]

Agree❤❤❤❤❤

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Agree

 

[Exoko]

Agree

 

[Curcuma_x_curcuma]

Agree

 

[Noobish2006]

idk mutch wn stuff but looks good

 

[Pluto321]

looks good, agree

 

[Reiner04]

@Reiner04 @Vietthai96 @ActuallySpaceMan42 @FinePoint

What do you think about this revision?

Here is the previous thread:

TenSura WN Revision - Back to Tier 1

Introduction Hello everyone, hope y'all are doing well. For the history of this thread, the original Tier 1 was nuked because of translation issues while the CRT I created later was paused due to irl issues. However, I decided it's best to create a new one because the reasons for tier 1 are...

vsbattles.com

We consider author's statement that includes uncerntain elements (like maybe/probably/etc) within it unreliable.

Teleportation is dimensional travel, so there "might" even be 4 dimensions, lol

So my position is same as the previous thread.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

We consider author's statement that includes uncerntain elements (like maybe/probably/etc) within it unreliable.



So my position is same as the previous thread.

I think the structure of the Japanese sentence here is important, which is clarified in the very first part of the OP.

First off, a little clarification — Unless we ourselves change the order for the sake of keeping the English natural, the Japanese itself makes the "There might even be 4 dimensions" as the premise and the "Because Teleportation is dimensional travel" as the reasoning of that premise.

Explanation by me:

TenSura WN Revision - Back to Tier 1​

Explanation by Setto:

TenSura WN Revision - Back to Tier 1​

As for the author's "openness", well that's something that's within his personality. You can read some of his replies here:

転生したらスライムだった件​

Even on the page linked, by itself, one can see that the author is open about practically everything. Well, this is mainly cuz he sometimes adds the readers' suggestions into the novel and it's his first time writing, so naturally he'll be open to opinions.

You can see most of the chapters here have the term "revised" (改) next to them.

The author says there "might be" a 4th dimension as a premise, but right after (in Japanese) says "because teleportation is dimensional movement", the reason of the premise.

The reason of the premise is completely mentioned inside the novel as well. So really, the author's "there might be one" is already literally there.

I declared, and left using 『Shadow Step』 .
Daaamn, this skill is convenient! It’s like moving straight to the target through a different dimension.
Oh, and I fly through that plain using 〈Flight Magic〉.
Chapter 44

The assumption of "might" is on the existence of this dimension itself, not "if it's 3rd or 4th" or whatever, and that "might" has the answer inside the novel. I think wormholes are treated as 4D given enough context, which the statements about the "gates" give.

Not mentioning even a single supporting argument in the OP and rejecting everything based on a single "might" in a single scan seems unjustified tbf

---

On another note, what do you think about the other two proposals?

 

[Ultimuru]

I think the structure of the Japanese sentence here is important, which is clarified in the very first part of the OP.

The author says there "might be" a 4th dimension as a premise, but right after (in Japanese) says "because teleportation is dimensional movement", the reason of the premise.

The reason of the premise is completely mentioned inside the novel as well. So really, the author's "there might be one" is already literally there.


The assumption of "might" is on the existence of this dimension itself, not "if it's 3rd or 4th" or whatever, and that "might" has the answer inside the novel. I think wormholes are treated as 4D given enough context, which the statements about the "gates" give.

Not mentioning even a single supporting argument in the OP and rejecting everything based on a single "might" in a single scan seems unjustified tbf

---

On another note, what do you think about the other two proposals?

In my modest opinion author statements which includes "might" should be considered as confirmation if the source material is also following that statement.

 

[K'rimuru]

I agree

 

[Azertyhuuh]

We consider author's statement that includes uncerntain elements (like maybe/probably/etc) within it unreliable.



So my position is same as the previous thread.

The words “maybe,” “possibly,” or “might” in a given context mean that something can exist or may not exist. You cannot impose a single conclusion by yourself, such as saying “therefore it doesn’t count” or “it doesn’t exist,” because these terms imply the possibility of existence or non-existence. In such cases, truth and falsehood remain a matter of uncertainty, and you should not treat it as non-existent based solely on your own opinion. Moreover, the author of the thread has also provided evidence that supports its existence.

 

[Child_of_destiny]

I agree. Op makes sense. So does the intellectual genius, our own Azertyhuuh.

 

[Vesxpura]

Following. Although just to clarify something.

The author says there "might be" a 4th dimension as a premise, but right after (in Japanese) says "because teleportation is dimensional movement", the reason of the premise.

Your interpretation of this is incoherent. Arguing that the authors statement of uncertainty about the dimension acts as a premise causes this to be circular reasoning, as your conclusion is that a 4D thing either exists or doesn't within the verse, and according to you that is also ur premise. Therefore ur premise is your conclusion.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Following. Although just to clarify something.

Your interpretation of this is incoherent. Arguing that the authors statement of uncertainty about the dimension acts as a premise causes this to be circular reasoning, as your conclusion is that a 4D thing either exists or doesn't within the verse, and according to you that is also ur premise. Therefore ur premise is your conclusion.

Not exactly, my premise (and so is the author's) is that 4D might exist. But the reason of that premise ends with "because teleportation is dimensional movement", which is TRUE, meaning the 4D is also true.

The conclusion is that "it does exist" without an OR choice.