Hazbin Hotel Discussion Thread

[Eden_Warlock99]

I'm pretty sure the playbill bios are meant to be written by the character themselves like Adam's. So this is most likely Vox tooting his own horn.

So what Vox says. AKA, him gassing himself up.

I don't know about you, but I think Vox is a very reliable source. Did yall forget his catchphrase is "Trust us"? I personally would trust that man with my life.

Why was Zestial and Carmilla being >Vox relevant again, those two have like, scaling to what exactly?

 

[Mythic381]

Mythic, that's the ******* point. He even tried to pull out one of his guns and got denied.

The fact he couldn't do it specifically because tentacles outnumbered him (with extra distance too) and that it doesn't mean Angel Dust can't possibly downscale?

Seriously. Think before you type. If Sir Pentious being restrained is reason enough for upscaling Angel from him, and Cherri being strangled is reason for Angel to upscale from her, what is this?

Means that they still can downscale from Valentino...

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Why would turf wars make that much of a difference besides skill and experience?

She's pretty athletic? More so than some random shopkeeper?

 

[Mythic381]

I personally would trust that man with my life.

That begs the question:

If you trust him, but he says that you don't trust him, does that mean you trust that you don't trust him, or you don't trust that you trust him?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

yes

 

[DarkLock92]

Why was Zestial and Carmilla being >Vox relevant again, those two have like, scaling to what again?

Carmilla no-diffed Vaggie and Zestial aura-diffed another overlord (unless you wanna assume that Prick wasn't an overlord yet, which is honestly fair)

 

[DarkLock92]

She's pretty athletic? More so than some random shopkeeper?

That doesn't really mean she should be several times stronger though.

 

[DaReaperMan]

He's definitely relative to the other two, but still killing some rando Sinner doesn't at all mean he should no-sell attacks from one who regularly partakes in turf wars.

There's literally nothing putting Angel, Cherri, or Pentious above the average sinner except them having the second ammendment. Hell, Val nor Angel even have Acrobatics so you can't say "They're athletic".

The fact he couldn't do it specifically because tentacles outnumbered him (with extra distance too) and that it doesn't mean Angel Dust can't possibly downscale?

Does him being able to do nothing but spit on Vox's screen while being thrown around like a monkey throws shit scream "I scale!" To you?

Means that they still can downscale from Valentino...

The same Valentino who had JUST no-sold a point blank Bomb from Cherri with nothing but a short bout of blindness to show for it? Yeah, his ass was weakened by Husk wailing on him.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Carmilla no-diffed Vaggie and Zestial aura-diffed another overlord (unless you wanna assume that Prick wasn't an overlord yet, which is honestly fair)

Every single attack she landed on Vaggie was with her Angelic stuff, so no-diffing Vaggie was more a matter of skill (Exorcists have none)

Prick is such a nothingburger overlord that he wasn't even invited to Carmilla's meeting lol

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Hell, Val nor Angel even have Acrobatics so you can't say "They're athletic".

Cherri does tho

Does him being able to do nothing but spit on Vox's screen while being thrown around like a monkey throws shit scream "I scale!" To you?

You know how Raiden downscales from Armstrong?

Yeah, his ass was weakened by Husk wailing on him.

You think Valentino taking like a hit or two from Husk supposedly lowered him all the way down from 5-B to 9-B? How that work?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Like Valentino was throwing Husk around too the whole fight, it ain't like Husk was matching him blow for blow lol
Husk even restrained Val and threw him to Cherri for her to deal the damage, I don't think there's any way to interpret that fight with 9-B Cherri.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Cherri does tho

Nothing on that profile supports your argument.

You know how Raiden downscales from Armstrong?

You know how he survived Armstrong hitting him while actively trying to kill him? Meanwhile Vox was doing the equivalent of what Armstrong was doing to Raiden before his final offer was blown off?

Because yeah, that is not something you can stump me on, my unhinged ass spent way too much time between 2020-2023 arguing like a ******* racoon about that scaling lol

You think Valentino taking like a hit or two from Husk supposedly lowered all the way down from 5-B to 9-B? How that work?

Only explanation there is unless you want to say Cherri Bomb's Bombs<<<Cherri Bomb herself.

Like Valentino was throwing Husk around too the whole fight, it ain't like Husk was matching him blow for blow lol
Husk even restrained Val and threw him to Cherri for her to deal the damage, I don't think there's any way to interpret that fight with 9-B Cherri.

Damn, almost like we have direct proof Husk and Val are comparable in AP but not LS.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Tbf the profile is outdated. She does flips and stuff in her song.

I know. That's why I never said Cherri didn't have Acrobatics, she objectively does.

 

[DarkLock92]

I know. That's why I never said Cherri didn't have Acrobatics, she objectively does.

Nvm it's actually on her profile

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Only explanation there is unless you want to say Cherri Bomb's Bombs<<<Cherri Bomb herself.

Might actually be the case, besides her angelic bombs, her bombs have never really grievously harmed anyone in the cast.
And like, it ain't that big of a difference? One of her bomb dazed him and her punches hurt him, it ain't like he went from walking through her bombs to getting donuted.

Damn, almost like we have direct proof Husk and Val are comparable in AP but not LS.

Huh?
Val landed a single punch on Husk in the fight and that shit sent his ass flying through the room. All Husk did was knock his guns off his hands and throw a bottle at him.
And now let's see what Cherri did.

The knife she threw also made Val bleed.

And then she gets downed by an attack from a hypnotized Angel she clearly didn't expect.
Like I'm not saying they aren't relative, but in no way is Angel stronger than Cherri.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Might actually be the case, besides her angelic bombs, her bombs have never really grievously harmed anyone in the cast.

But they do harm Pentious just like her physical hits do. So yeah, they're comparable to her physicals.

And like, it ain't that big of a difference? One of her bomb dazed him

Blinded him. It did no damage to him. Frankly Cherri only threw a bomb after being told Val had shit eyes, and he was pinching his eyes. He was Blinded.

and her punches hurt him, it ain't like he went from walking through her bombs to getting donuted.

If the genius closed his eyes he would have straight up walked through it, yeah.

Huh?
Val landed a single punch on Husk in the fight and that shit sent his ass flying through the room and all Husk did was knock his guns off his hands and threw a bottle at him.

Are you going to be willfully ignorant or are you going to actually watch the scan? Serious question.

Oh. Right. Admitting that Val and Husk evenly clashed while Cherri was struggling with an I.M.P-tier enemy would go against your argument, wouldn't it? Throwing Husk around like it's Dragon Ball isn't even reason to not scale, Husk ain't even bruised like after Velvette hit him, and he mostly avoided that.

And now let's see what Cherri did.

Like Husk straight-up favors letting her attack over himself. The knife she threw also made Val bleed.

It's called Teamwork, read about it sometime. As for the knife... that's one weapon. If you want (Valentino tier) via knife, maybe, sure.

And then she gets downed by an attack from a hypnotized Angel she clearly didn't expect.
Like they're relative, but in no way is Angel stronger than Cherri.

I guess being strangled and being able to do nothing about it isn't reason for upscaling now. Either you're dicking around, or you're bullshitting.

Come up with an argument that doesn't include people who can't even fight back once an Overlord gets their hands on them. But I'm done arguing against "Husk is weaker than Val, please ignore the fact they entered a powerstruggle that had both side's arms shaking" disingenuous crap.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

HH Fans bickering about their own wacky scaling? I'm home

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

But they do harm Pentious just like her physical hits do. So yeah, they're comparable to her physicals.

Legit don't think we've ever seen how he is after one, fact she pulled one out while they're both stuck together makes me think they don't do all that much.
And like, Pentious is weaker than both Cherri AND Angel, guy slammed Angel into the ground and he didn’t show even the slightest hint of pain.

Blinded him. It did no damage to him. Frankly Cherri only threw a bomb after being told Val had shit eyes, and he was pinching his eyes. He was Blinded.

How do you know that? The lack of bruise?
These bombs are again not much or at all stronger than her regular attacks, and only after repeatedly punching Val did she bruise him.

Also I think you misunderstood the scene? Val’s shit eyesight kept him from noticing the bomb strapped to the knife he just caught, that's about it.

Are you going to be willfully ignorant or are you going to actually watch the scan? Serious question.

Oh. Right. Admitting that Val and Husk evenly clashed while Cherri was struggling with an I.M.P-tier enemy would go against your argument, wouldn't it? Throwing Husk around like it's Dragon Ball isn't even reason to not scale, Husk ain't even bruised like after Velvette hit him, and he mostly avoided that.

Evenly clashed when Val was ranting and using guns to do so, guns ain't melee weapons lol
Like the scene clearly emphasizes the impact of Val’s punch, just like it did with the one against Alastor. It’s clearly meant to be a heavy hit on Husk.
And when did I say he shouldn't scale? I'm saying he's weaker but not that much, like how Cherri is weaker than Val but not by much, and like how Angel is weaker than Cherri but not by much.

Also huh? Wasn't it you who said the Robo-Fizz was a combat model and such isn't comparable to the Helluva Boss one?
Hell, it could just be a Vox-bootleg version lol

As for the knife... that's one weapon. If you want (Valentino tier) via knife, maybe, sure.

I can assure you she didn't lace it with angelic steel lol, it's just a knife.

I guess being strangled and being able to do nothing about it isn't reason for upscaling now. Either you're dicking around, or you're bullshitting.

You read Invincible, right? I'm going to spoiler it anyway, guess how Mark killed Conquest?
She even outright breaks free from him pinning her arms, like it just seems the issue was reach and ya know, the fact she was getting strangled?

The stuff drifted a bit far from where we originally started, anyway back to the point, adding Sinners to the Overlord scaling doesn't even add that many anti-feats. Sir Pentious definitely has a few but the Overlords have a bajillion already from Husk, Nifty, Val, Velvette and the Exorcists.
Anyway how I see it.
General Sinners: 9-B from Sir Pentious since he's just outright stated to be a wimp physically so most Sinners should straight be stronger than him.
Duper Sinners/Overlords: 9-A from Vox's crater. Val and Velvette scale to Vox, and pretty much everyone scales to those two.
Exorcists: At least 9-A for being perceived as invincible by the last two.
Alastor: Low 7-C. He's kinda in a tier of his own in S1 so yeah
Adam/Angelic Weapons: Low 7-C, maaaaaybe 5-B? I do feel a bit iffy on it cause Lucifer saw what happened to Adam and still thought Sinners had no means of hurting him, and like he clearly was having the time of his life wailing on Adam so don't really buy him going all out.
Lucifer: 5-B, duh

 

[DaReaperMan]

Evenly clashed when Val was ranting and using guns to do so, guns ain't melee weapons lol

You don't know how guns work, do you?

You see, they're these hard plastic, carbon fiber, or metal contraptions that are usually pretty weighty, and when you hit one, espeically when they're locked together, they make for a pretty good defense. And, when swung around, and espeically when metal, which Val actually did right after, they're a decent melee option too. I may like melee weapons more than I do firearms, but that does not mean I do not know firearms. This is why Angel Dust can push back an exorcist's attack after blocking it with his angelic Tommy gun, guns are a decent blunt weapon and tool to block things with. Of course ignoring the fact that smooth rings are actually a much worse melee weapon with zero friction to speak of.

Acting like that isn't direct proof Husk is comparable to Valentino in AP because "guns are not a melee weapon" is the height of the exact reason this is the only thing I'm responding to from your post. Any other verse, this would be accepted as Husk being comparable, but because it's Hazbin, we have arguments like this. Wanna see what happens when the wrong thing is used to block a melee attack?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Duper Sinners/Overlords: 9-A from Vox's crater. Val and Velvette scale to Vox, and pretty much everyone scales to those two.
Exorcists: At least 9-A for being perceived as invincible by the last two.

9-A Overlords is so absurd and funny that I can support it for stuff and giggles.

Angelic Weapons: Low 7-C, maaaaaybe 5-B?

You mean those things that couldn’t break Alastor’s shield that General of Exorcists one-punched?

Yeah no I’m not buying into Overlords/Top Tiers except Lu Tier 9-7. This just says “welp, screw the ending! I don’t care cuz look number looks bad”

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Acting like that isn't direct proof Husk is comparable to Valentino

When did I say he doesn't scale? They're all comparable, that's my point. Husk, Val, Cherri, Angel, all have a gap in strength, but it isn't that big.
The power gaps are like the power gaps you'd see in IRL, like I sure as hell stand no chance against your average boxer, but my hits can still hurt them, ya know.

Also actually thank you bringing it up, but yeah Angel can push back an Exorcist's attack, this kinda proves him and Cherri are a fair bit stronger than your regular Sinner lol

9-A Overlords is so absurd and funny that I can support it for stuff and giggles.

They legit only have scaling over Sinners, and now that 8-B Sir Pentious is an outlier, Overlords are also stuck with him lol

You mean those things that couldn’t break Alastor’s shield that General of Exorcists one-punched?

Again, the blades bounced off, it's clearly not a problem of the Angelic Steel blades being too weak.
If we want to really restrict it, just make them Adam tier for those who scale/upscale from Nifty, so Husk and Alastor Ig

Yeah no I’m not buying into Overlords/Top Tiers except Lu Tier 9-7. This just says “welp, screw the ending! I don’t care cuz look number looks bad”

Well you see when the whole basis of a Tier is downscaling from the God Tier of the verse, and said downscaling ends up making people who have no feats anywhere near Tier 7 or Tier 6, or even Tier 8. It's going to raise a few eyebrows.

But the best part we don't even got to go the outlier route, we legit have WoG that they had an amp while doing it.

"There are implications in [this song] that these characters' voices and these characters' music give them power. “Hear My Hope” is the first example we've seen explicitly of these people's power being manifested through song to achieve an end."

"The idea of music having power in Lord of the Rings… This is such a creator-driven show, and that's not something that's on their radar so much as that's something I privately nerd out about, because I'm one of those weird people who likes Lord of the Rings that much. But that was something I clocked in season 1, when there was that imagery of Lilith empowering Sinners — you see these musical notes streaming from her over the rest of Hell."

"The idea that music has power is very straightforward on an emotional level, and it's very fun to have a property that treats it not just as emotionally powerful, but as something that will affect the physical world."

 

[ShionAH]

I always thought Charlie had music amp powers inherited from Lilith

 

[Mythic381]

Does him being able to do nothing but spit on Vox's screen while being thrown around like a monkey throws shit scream "I scale!" To you?

He's literally the one who chose to spit on Vox's face when he literally had his arms free during that scene.

And yes it does, if you scale to two characters who literally harm an overlord and cause him to bleed, especially when your only "anti-feat" is losing to a guy you didn't even try to fight back against because you know you're going to lose to even if you downscale. Why do you think Angel Dust was just trying to escape the room?

The same Valentino who had JUST no-sold a point blank Bomb from Cherri with nothing but a short bout of blindness to show for it? Yeah, his ass was weakened by Husk wailing on him.

Same explosion didn't even cause any destruction, I doubt it was that strong for it to actually damage him.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

They legit only have scaling over Sinners, and now that 8-B Sir Pentious is an outlier, Overlords are also stuck with him lol

They still scale one-shot above everyone so there’s no upper cap.

If we want to really restrict it, just make them Adam tier for those who scale/upscale from Nifty, so Husk and Alastor Ig

Huh

Well you see when the whole basis of a Tier is downscaling from the God Tier of the verse, and said downscaling ends up making people who have no feats anywhere near Tier 7 or Tier 6, or even Tier 8. It's going to raise a few eyebrows.

People raise a few eyebrows regardless of whatever is proposed, we’re in powerscaling after all.

But the best part we don't even got to go the outlier route, we legit have WoG that they had an amp while doing it.

Except that this doesn’t make sense. They have Tier 5 singing fight technique and never use it? “9-A, 5-B via singing” will look just worse than straight 5-B.

 

[Emerald]

can someone explain whats the current situation with the tier of the characters? i remember there being a crt for the weapon that was getting tier 6 to 5 results

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

They still scale one-shot above everyone so there’s no upper cap.

That's where the anti-feats rear their head.

Huh

The Angelic Knife Nifty killed Adam with ain't anything special. Anyone with stronger arms than Nifty could've done the same.

Except that this doesn’t make sense. They have Tier 5 singing fight technique and never use it? “9-A, 5-B via singing” will look just worse than straight 5-B.

The interview makes it pretty evident it's not just singing, it even specifies this is the first time they tapped into this "Power of Song"
Like it's basically "Don't Give Up" in UT sequence but with singing, if it had WoG that confirmed it's what empowered Frisk.

And scaling everyone to an amped version of themselves, why would we that again?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

That's where the anti-feats rear their head.

What anti-feats? And are you seriously gonna tell me than an Average Sinner ≈ Sinner with hundred thousand souls? That’s how bum deals are?

The Angelic Knife Nifty killed Adam with ain't anything special. Anyone with stronger arms than Nifty could've done the same.

He was already beaten up heavily so eh.

The interview makes it pretty evident it's not just singing, it even specifies this is the first time they tapped into this "Power of Song"

Except that it makes no sense within the series. Again, tell me, why don’t they do this in fights?

Like it's basically "Don't Give Up" in UT sequence but with singing, if it had WoG that confirmed it's what empowered Frisk.

Yeah, imagine if Frisk had access to that anytime but only used against Asriel. Would have raised questions.

And scaling everyone to an amped version of themselves, why would we that again?

Why don’t they amp themselves in crucial fights?

 

[Mythic381]

At this point, just upgrade all characters to 5-B at get done with it.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

At this point, just upgrade all characters to 5-B at get done with it.

Regular Sinners and below just need 5 to be corrected to 9

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

What anti-feats? And are you seriously gonna tell me than an Average Sinner ≈ Sinner with hundred thousand souls? That’s how bum deals are?

They ain't from regular sinners lol
Velvette breaking from the V Tower fall, Valentino being taken out by a 9-A sized explosion, Lute getting harmed and crushed by falling rocks, Husk being threatened by guns, etc.

Like they're clearly Superhuman, but they're still very much within those street tiers where guns are scary
Plus, Overlords get more than just pure power from the soul deals, like they become their workers and their superpowers clearly get better (Unless you think Vox could mind hax crowds from the day he came to Hell).

He was already beaten up heavily so eh.

I mean, getting beat up isn't going to make a fly just run through your body lol

Except that it makes no sense within the series. Again, tell me, why don’t they do this in fights?

Yeah, imagine if Frisk had access to that anytime but only used against Asriel. Would have raised questions.

Why don’t they amp themselves in crucial fights?

They don't. That's my point.

It's not just singing, it's like a power of friendship boost, Charlie can't make all of Hell sing along together for a common goal anytime she wants, just like how Frisk can't make the whole Underground root for them whenever.

 

[Mythic381]

Regular Sinners and below just need 5 to be corrected to 9

I don't get the joke? Unless you're saying 5+5=9

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Velvette breaking from the V Tower fall, Valentino being taken out by a 9-A sized explosion, Lute getting harmed and crushed by falling rocks, Husk being threatened by guns, etc.

Yeah thanks for giving the authors’ most favorite PIS list that virtually any verse has.

Like they're clearly Superhuman, but they're still very much within those street tiers where guns are scary

Monsters in Undertale die to a ten-year-old child with Toy Knife and Empty Gun. Clearly not that- WOW IS THAT HIGH 8-C?

Plus, Overlords get more than just pure power from the soul deals, like they become their workers and their superpowers clearly get better (Unless you think Vox could mind hax crowds from the day he came to Hell).

It boosts their overall power too. In case of Vox, he becomes stronger not solely via deals but via popularity too.

I mean, getting beat up isn't going to make a fly just run through your body lol

Fiction treats it like that most of the time though. A far weaker character can fight or finish the guy who was heavily beaten up before.

They don't. That's my point.

It's not just singing, it's like a power of friendship boost, Charlie can't make all of Hell sing along together for a common goal anytime she wants, just like how Frisk can't make the whole Underground root for them whenever.

Even if that’s the case, still makes no sense why Hotel staff never tried that.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I don't get the joke? Unless you're saying 5+5=9

Sinners & IMPs currently scale to 9-B.

 

[ShionAH]

“I need to wait for the Planet Curvature Scaling to be applied here”

This is what CGM said guys, please help them. I am not knowledgeable enough

 

[DaReaperMan]

“I need to wait for the Planet Curvature Scaling to be applied here”

This is what CGM said guys, please help them. I am not knowledgeable enough

...wat

 

[Alexander]

“I need to wait for the Planet Curvature Scaling to be applied here”

This is what CGM said guys, please help them. I am not knowledgeable enough

what planet curvature?

 

[ShionAH]

...wat

what planet curvature?

Below Heaven - Made in Hell

vsbattles.fandom.com

Idk

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

“I need to wait for the Planet Curvature Scaling to be applied here”

This is what CGM said guys, please help them. I am not knowledgeable enough

I believe that the CGM means something like this but calcing it for the planet of Heaven (Idk tho since i'm no Calcer)

Sonic's Earth GBE Redux

vsbattles.fandom.com

Man, LIF_OF_KING really gave us this 5-B calc and dipped from HH Scaling, understandably so

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

“I need to wait for the Planet Curvature Scaling to be applied here”

This is what CGM said guys, please help them. I am not knowledgeable enough

Ahem

The vision is completly clear, so we don't need to use planet curvature formula

Literally in the beginning of the calc bruh

 

[ShionAH]

Ahem

Literally in the beginning of the calc bruh

I am not on PC so I cant comment, could you reply to then? You are more knowledgeable anyways

Edit: Oh DaGOATman already did