Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[Anonymous_Learner]

Who is glazing Yuta on Ryu's profile
Why can't they put Ryu's max output was above Rikas energy beam outright

Someone put uncharged like it'd make a difference

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Anyone can perform Black Flash. It's just down to chance. I don't see a problem listing it on all profiles, but denoting what character's have landed, and additionally their chances of landing it (At least for consistent cases like Yuji). But I won't complain if we take that route. But it does make my rework of the curse energy page a bit harder if I can't list BF as a universal ability

Universal thing on ce Page? sure
On everyone's page (especially people who've NEVER done it before)? no

 

[LaserPrecision]

Universal thing on ce Page? sure
On everyone's page (especially people who've NEVER done it before)? no

Then that's not a universal ability. Universal applies anyone can potentially use it. And listing Black Flashes on the page isn't technically needed when it'll be on the Cursed energy page anyways

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Anyone can perform Black Flash. It's just down to chance. I don't see a problem listing it on all profiles, but denoting what character's have landed, and additionally their chances of landing it (At least for consistent cases like Yuji). But I won't complain if we take that route. But it does make my rework of the curse energy page a bit harder if I can't list BF as a universal ability

List the sts for only characters who have performed it. For others you can list it in the CE page. If someone wants to argue every character land BF in vs matches that's upto them but definitely it's not worth putting it on Sts for every characters.

Someone put uncharged like it'd make a difference

Ikr

 

[Duedate8898]

Anyone can perform Black Flash. It's just down to chance. I don't see a problem listing it on all profiles, but denoting what character's have landed, and additionally their chances of landing it (At least for consistent cases like Yuji). But I won't complain if we take that route. But it does make my rework of the curse energy page a bit harder if I can't list BF as a universal ability

You should still list Black Flash on the Cursed Energy page, it would just not be listed as something universal. Instead you'd give it its own section

 

[LaserPrecision]

You should still list Black Flash on the Cursed Energy page, it would just not be listed as something universal. Instead you'd give it its own section

Well the pages goes by levels of mastery from "Basic" (Anyone can do it), to "Intermediate" (Things not anyone can do) up to "Advanced" (Very few can do it, and is generally what you think of when you think masters of Jujutsu)

 

[Arkenis]

I'm asking why it's for all characters? Hitting BF is a rare phenomenon. Personally it's better if we only list it for characters who has shown the feats. They got higher chances of hitting it rather than every Sorcerers.

Yea no we're trying something new, everyone can hit it, we'll just debate the probability in matches

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Yea no we're trying something new, everyone can hit it, we'll just debate the probability in matches

Hell nah, No one to have the fate of a matchup on probability. just put it on with the peeps who use it

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

This is peak

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

This is peak

absolute cinema

 

[Arkenis]

Hell nah, No one to have the fate of a matchup on probability. just put it on with the peeps who use it

afraid Nobara's gonna one shot deku

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Except Yuji no one hitting BFs on will

 

[Buraqibear]

Except Yuji no one hitting BFs on will

Yuji can't hit them on will either

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yuji can't hit them on will either

You didn't get what I mean

 

[LaserPrecision]

If we're going to make Black Flash amps stack, I would like to know how we're going to treat it for the sake of my sandbox. Are we going to treat it as multiplying by itself (I.e. 120% of 120%...), or just adding (20%+20%+20%...)

Previously I calc'd it as if we were doing the former (1.2^8), but never got a consensus on that.

 

[Ralp0054]

 

[Rodriiogo]

If we're going to make Black Flash amps stack, I would like to know how we're going to treat it for the sake of my sandbox. Are we going to treat it as multiplying by itself (I.e. 120% of 120%...), or just adding (20%+20%+20%...)

Previously I calc'd it as if we were doing the former (1.2^8), but never got a consensus on that.

I think that prob would have had to be adressed in the multipliers crt considering Yuji was climbing to Sukuna's level via stacking Black Flashes, however what about other situations like the black flashes on the yuji and todo vs mahito fight, cause yea they do hit multiple of them but both yuji and mahito were already weakened by that point, so do we still stack it over their base values or is that ignored because they were weakened to begin with, would mahito's ISBODK be actually 240% over his base since he already hit 2 black flashes beforehand? And would Hanami fight Yuji be 180% above his base via the 4 black flashes too? Cause hanami scales to him by that point still

 

[ElJoaki5]

Kinda unrelated but the Inumaki High 7-C Earthquake calc just got accepted, (this the related part now) which would just support mahito's scaling regardless

The earthquake yuta reacts to is Geto's earthquake not Inumaki's.
Inumakis earthquake is before that

 

[Rodriiogo]

The earthquake yuta reacts to is Geto's earthquake not Inumaki's.
Inumakis earthquake is before that

In the movie (which is now usable) we do see inumaki's earthquake on screen shaking the trees and the buildings and it looks very much like a magnitude 4 one regardless, Yuta also doesnt notice a difference between the two earthquakes otherwise it'd likely be mentioned really

The manga also represents geto's and inumaki's earthquake in the same exact way (as in how its visibly depicted with the sound text)

 

[LaserPrecision]

I think that prob would have had to be adressed in the multipliers crt considering Yuji was climbing to Sukuna's level via stacking Black Flashes, however what about other situations like the black flashes on the yuji and todo vs mahito fight, cause yea they do hit multiple of them but both yuji and mahito were already weakened by that point, so do we still stack it over their base values or is that ignored because they were weakened to begin with, would mahito's ISBODK be actually 240% over his base since he already hit 2 black flashes beforehand? And would Hanami fight Yuji be 180% above his base via the 4 black flashes too? Cause hanami scales to him by that point still

Instant Spirit Body wouldn't be 240% over base Mahito's level. The 40% increase (If we'll treat it as 20%+20% rather than 1.2^2) would be over Mahito's current power, which is 2x his base level. So if Mahito was a 10, and Instant Spirit Body is a 20, the 2 Black Flashes would put him at 28. Which is 2.8x his base, as opposed to 2.4x.

 

[Rodriiogo]

Instant Spirit Body wouldn't be 240% over base Mahito's level. The 40% increase (If we'll treat it as 20%+20% rather than 1.2^2) would be over Mahito's current power, which is 2x his base level. So if Mahito was a 10, and Instant Spirit Body is a 20, the 2 Black Flashes would put him at 28. Which is 2.8x his base, as opposed to 2.4x.

True, but the main point is how Mahito was already weakened before hitting those black flashes so do we still apply the multipliers over his base level value regardless of him being weakened or?

 

[LaserPrecision]

True, but the main point is how Mahito was already weakened before hitting those black flashes so do we still apply the multipliers over his base level value regardless of him being weakened or?

You can just apply the increase of his base level of power, and take 40% of that sum. Or you can take 40% of his base power, and increase it by the amp from Black Flash, and both lead to the same result. As an example, again, using 10 for simplicity:

10+40% = 14*0.4 = 5.6

10*0.4 = 4+40% = 5.6

It's pretty easy to work around.

 

[Rodriiogo]

You can just apply the increase of his base level of power, and take 40% of that sum. Or you can take 40% of his base power, and increase it by the amp from Black Flash, and both lead to the same result. As an example, again, using 10 for simplicity:

10+40% = 14*0.4 = 5.6

10*0.4 = 4+40% = 5.6

It's pretty easy to work around.

If we do that Shibuya Mahito's ISBODK (1.152x Base) would be below Domain Mahito in the VS. Mahito arc (1.2x Base) which doesnt seem consistent considering Kenjaku says Mahito grew stronger than before during the fight with Yuji (tho ig this could be just him talking abt how Mahito would be 2x stronger if he was at full power? Idk)

 

[LaserPrecision]

If we do that Shibuya Mahito's ISBODK (1.152x Base) would be below Domain Mahito in the VS. Mahito arc (1.2x Base) which doesnt seem consistent considering Kenjaku says Mahito grew stronger than before during the fight with Yuji (tho ig this could be just him talking abt how Mahito would be 2x stronger if he was at full power? Idk)

I assume Kenjaku would be talking about Mahito at his full potential, not a crippled Mahito who can barely stand, yeah. Also I'm pretty sure school Arc Mahito is way weaker. Isn't it his thing that he like, grows and learns extremely rapidly? Keep in mind he was already weaker than that Yuji, and since then Yuji has become much stronger (Was weaker than Nanami at the time, with Yuji surpassing Nanami by the end of the Shibuya incident).

 

[Rodriiogo]

I assume Kenjaku would be talking about Mahito at his full potential, not a crippled Mahito who can barely stand, yeah. Also I'm pretty sure school Arc Mahito is way weaker. Isn't it his thing that he like, grows and learns extremely rapidly? Keep in mind he was already weaker than that Yuji, and since then Yuji has become much stronger (Was weaker than Nanami at the time, with Yuji surpassing Nanami by the end of the Shibuya incident).

he wasnt really "weaker" we see it with the Nanami solo fight that he was still experimenting and didnt know how to use his powers rather well, he didnt even know about using CE control at will by this point, I did talk about it here:

I'd say the one holding this back is Mahito via his Nanami fight, but I think it's important putting into perspective/context how casual Mahito actually was

• Even at the beginning he says he was simply experimenting his powers, he hadn't fully get used to them so he was testing how they fully worked.
• In chapter 22 it's said there's still 30 minutes left before Nanami goes into overtime, despite this it's then shown that neither him or Mahito were that damaged when he actually goes overtime.
• In chapter 23, where we get context on what happened in those 30 minutes, we see that once Mahito actually tries for a singular second he immediatly increases his speed and blitzes Nanami, touches him and says that in 2-3 more touches he will no longer be human.
• Yet throughout the rest of the 30 minutes, Mahito chooses to not touch Nanami even one more time and let him just run away despite being shown to be able to blitz him
• Even when Nanami goes overtime, Mahito is still playing around and Nanami only hits him when he's offguard because he was focused on his destruction technique and even after that Mahito simply lets himself be crushed and decides to not run away despite being decently well physically (we see he can still keep fighting despite even worse levels of damage)
• Mahito then elaborates to Kenjaku how the whole thing was just a big experiement that made him learn stuff, he even says in the image that he didn't even know Cursed Energy can be controlled by his own will at first and that he also learned the limits of his regeneration via being crushed too.

TLDR: I think using Nanami as an argument to say Mahito being at that level is "inconsistent" doesnt really work considering Nanami's feats on Mahito don't really scale.
Mahito himself is way beyond the regular "grade 1" level once he actually learns and tries.

 

[Buraqibear]

If we're going to make Black Flash amps stack, I would like to know how we're going to treat it for the sake of my sandbox. Are we going to treat it as multiplying by itself (I.e. 120% of 120%...), or just adding (20%+20%+20%...)

Previously I calc'd it as if we were doing the former (1.2^8), but never got a consensus on that.

20%+20%+20%…

 

[Rodriiogo]

20%+20%+20%…

Yuji carrying Gojo and Sukuna's scaling via spamming black flashes on crippled Sukuna is funny

 

[LaserPrecision]

he wasnt really "weaker" we see it with the Nanami solo fight that he was still experimenting and didnt know how to use his powers rather well, he didnt even know about using CE control at will by this point, I did talk about it here:

He was weaker as a result of being inexperienced.

I don't think the "blitz" argument works, because it's a speed-amp via transfiguring his legs, and he only ever used it twice (Against Nanami, and the second time against Kokichi during the 1 year explosion). It's not exactly in-character for him to use it even when getting serious (Such as against Yuji).

20%+20%+20%…

I'll see if I can get a general consensus before adding anything to my sandbox.

 

[Rodriiogo]

He was weaker as a result of being inexperienced.

Yea what I was tryna say is that Mahito's power never really grew until the fight in shibuya, his power was always at shibuya's level he just didnt know how to use it so it seemed weaker

I don't think the "blitz" argument works, because it's a speed-amp via transfiguring his legs, and he only ever used it twice (Against Nanami, and the second time against Kokichi during the 1 year explosion). It's not exactly in-character for him to use it even when getting serious (Such as against Yuji).

He does constantly use transfiguration to dodge attacks faster, the point there was as Mahito says, Nanami kept running away from him for the rest of the 30 minutes which really shouldnt be possible unless Mahito lets him (which is the point here) we even see that Mahito still had his horse-like legs by that point so he never really stopped using transfiguration for speed, he just wanted to play around and experiment his powers (I never understood why the wiki scales Nanami to even this version of Mahito, Inexperienced Mahito was still beyond Nanami)

I'll see if I can get a general consensus before adding anything to my sandbox.

I do agree with the stackings at the end of the day, im just a tad confused on how some of it will be handled (Hanami should scale to like 207% Kyoto Yuji via Yuji post 4 black flashes and Hanami punching eachother and both hurt eachother equally

 

[LaserPrecision]

He does constantly use transfiguration to dodge attacks faster, the point there was as Mahito says, Nanami kept running away from him for the rest of the 30 minutes which really shouldnt be possible unless Mahito lets him (which is the point here) we even see that Mahito still had his horse-like legs by that point so he never really stopped using transfiguration for speed, he just wanted to play around and experiment his powers (I never understood why the wiki scales Nanami to even this version of Mahito, Inexperienced Mahito was still beyond Nanami)

We scale him because he's stronger than Yuji until Shibuya, where at the start he's equal to Nanami. Yuji evidently can beat the breaks off of Mahito. The only reason Nanami can't is because he can't attack Mahito's soul. So he just regenerates.

 

[Rodriiogo]

We scale him because he's stronger than Yuji until Shibuya, where at the start he's equal to Nanami. Yuji evidently can beat the breaks off of Mahito. The only reason Nanami can't is because he can't attack Mahito's soul. So he just regenerates.

Thing is the Mahito that Yuji beats the breaks off is still the inexperienced Mahito, Mahito literally pirerces through him and says he has no chance of beating him + the only evidence we have that Yuji is "stronger in shibuya" (beginning of shibuya I mean) is gojo saying he got way stronger in the kyoto goodwill event but the scan being used is gojo seeing the power of a Yuji post hitting four black flashes (so 207% stronger)

 

[Rodriiogo]

We literally see how even Overtime Nanami's ratio strikes cant harm Dagon at all and considers he has boundless HP, Nanami scaling to Mahito is weird asl

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

We literally see how even Overtime Nanami's ratio strikes cant harm Dagon at all and considers he has boundless HP, Nanami scaling to Mahito is weird asl

It was harming him. Nanami corrected it later. It was minor damage than Naobito that's all.

 

[Buraqibear]

boundless HP

H3A Dagon

 

[LaserPrecision]

Thing is the Mahito that Yuji beats the breaks off is still the inexperienced Mahito, Mahito literally pirerces through him and says he has no chance of beating him + the only evidence we have that Yuji is "stronger in shibuya" (beginning of shibuya I mean) is gojo saying he got way stronger in the kyoto goodwill event but the scan being used is gojo seeing the power of a Yuji post hitting four black flashes (so 207% stronger)

Okay, but you JUST said Nanami shouldn't even scale to even the INEXPERIENCED Mahito.

And the narrative intent of Gojo's statement (plus the fact he has Six Eyes and is overall one of the greatest when it comes to Jujutsu), it seems clear to me Yuji got stronger, even without accounting for the amps from Black Flash. Not to mention, Gojo never later corrects himself. The whole purpose of everything from Prison Arc to Goodwill Event was training to make Yuji stronger and more adept at using Cursed Energy (ingrain the fundamentals into him). Gojo's affirmed of Yuji's strength when he takes on and defeats the Blood Brothers who are Special Grade Curses (Whom were planning to take the finger from the stronger Finger Bearer who previously no-diffed Yuji who's best feats at the time was like 9-A, or maybe even 9-B if we take Nabara being impressed by him punching through a wall, and Yuji explaining it wasn't that crazy for him because it was drywall). He also landed a Black Flash against said Curses, which cause Sorcerers to grow/evolve. He then gets promoted to Grade 1.

 

[LaserPrecision]

We literally see how even Overtime Nanami's ratio strikes cant harm Dagon at all and considers he has boundless HP, Nanami scaling to Mahito is weird asl

How is this weird? Dragon can withstand damage more than Mahito can. Nanami's Cursed Technique shattered Mahito's limbs whenever it landed, and his extension technique crushed him flat. Meanwhile Ratio did jackshit to Dagon. That's not an anti-feat Nanami, that's a feat for Dagon (Mahito is generally more squishy anywho. His limbs break a lot, but he can Regen it every time).

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I find it funny people used to scale Megumi above Nanami and Naobito when the same fight against Toji. Albeit Toji felt Sukuna's presence. He didn't go for Sukuna instead still fighting his son..

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

We love Iori slander