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One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

The fact that Mihawk with a fake BB and no haki can match haki knots Shanks is crazy 😂
i-made-this-shit-but-can-someone-make-it-better-version-of-v0-ugn9x2x1x09g1.png
 
KingTempest said:
Hating
As someone who has tried calcing this several times, the island is actually gargantuan. Like even lower end calcs have it high hundreds to thousands of kilometers
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That makes it bigger than Aldoron, which makes sense given that it's a land of giants but still insane lol
 
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MonkeyOfLife said:
Most of, if not every pixel calc is done incorrectly btw

Whenever you scale one size to another, you should always scale them being next to each other from our pov.... Otherwise the results will differ like crazy and be inaccurate
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The page you linked states that the objects must be in close proximity to be scaled to each other not being exactly the same distance from our view (otherwise most calcs would be impossible).
MonkeyOfLife said:
Rainbow end
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This one I can agree with you on considering the rainbow is decently far away from the island. Although the part of the rainbow which is above the sun world (within Elbaph) seemingly has the same width, which can potentially be used.
MonkeyOfLife said:
Ship ends
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For the first scan the ships are right next to each other as we can see here. The distance between them is pretty negligible.

As for the second the ship is shown multiple times to be next to the tree.
And the ship itself is many kilometers away from the pov so even if it isn't right next to the tree that distance would have negligible to minimal effects on the perspective.
If we assume that the distance between the tree and the ship was one third of the distance between us and the ship, the ship would actually appear to be smaller by one fourth if it was right next to the tree. that's because it's an inversely proportional relation, the perceived size becomes 3/4th of the original distance when the distance becomes 4/3rd of the original, its inverse (and the distance between the ship and the tree isn't remotely close to being one third of the distance between the pov and the ship from the scans shown, this is just an example). If we assume that the distance between the ship and the tree is 1/20 of our distance to the ship, which is more realistic, the ship's perceived size will be 20/21 its size in the scan (a difference of around 1 pixel) if it was right next to the tree considering the new distance will be 21/20 the original distance in the scan. So overall a pretty minimal change due to the large distance between us and the ship and the relative proximity of the ship to the tree.
MonkeyOfLife said:
Castle end
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I don't see the problem here. Loki is entering the castle from the door which means he's on the same level.
MonkeyOfLife said:
House end
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This is mostly a diagram with a weird angle and the branches appear to be the same size at all points in the image. Although yeah I get your point, I guess I can use this to find the width of the part of the branch that connects to the tree and and then use it instead.

But in general if we assume that two objects must have the perfectly exact same distance from pov to be scaled to each other like you said then most calcs would be invalidated. This and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and most calcs in the wiki would be invalidated using this logic due to something minimal which wouldn't make sense.

But either way thanks for the feedback. (I'll probably wait for or ask a calc group member to give his opinion and evaluate it)
 
YmTheSuper said:
But in general if we assume that two objects must have the perfectly exact same distance from pov to be scaled to each other like you said then most calcs would be invalidated. This and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and most calcs in the wiki would be invalidated using this logic due to something minimal which wouldn't make sense.
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I never said they can't be used or are invalid... those other calcs you listed are inaccurate yes, but mostly because that's the only option they have to work with
YmTheSuper said:
For the first scan the ships are right next to each other as we can see here. The distance between them is pretty negligible.

As for the second the ship is shown multiple times to be next to the tree.
And the ship itself is many kilometers away from the pov so even if it isn't right next to the tree that distance would have negligible to minimal effects on the perspective.
Click to expand...
Saying it's something minimal goes to show that you don't understand pixel scaling and how important it is when size scaling to use a similar position to one another from our pov, especially when their sizes aren't relative, like here and here

Legit just read the page I linked, it already tells you how important it is...

If you want a slight example of what I mean, here's one:
Test.png

603 px | 310 px
Even while they are both relatively very close to one another, their size difference is a whole 2x in size...

Now imagine that with the scans linked above, the inaccurate difference would be way higher than 2x, and now especially when the scalings already differ greatly in size, the inaccurate difference would make that even higher... Hence making it also a thing one needs to look out for

What I'm saying is already there on the page, so it isn't just me telling you this

Kachon's version uses scalings that are right next to one another from our pov, hence making it a much more accurate size scaling than the other methods that you used
 
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MonkeyOfLife said:
Even while they are both relatively very close to one another, their size difference is a whole 2x in size...

Now imagine that with the scans linked above, the inaccurate difference would be way higher than 2x, and now especially when the scalings already differ greatly in size, the inaccurate difference would make that even higher... Hence making it also a thing one needs to look out for
Click to expand...
Yes because as I explained earlier the relation between how large an object is precieved and its distance from the pov are inversely proportional. (for an object to appear 2x smaller than how it currently appears it's distance from pov needs to be 2x larger. I gave an example with the angsize calculator above that if the distance between the ship and the tree is 1/20th of its distance from pov which is somewhat realistic the inaccuracy difference its size would be 1/21x which is 0.047x a very small amount).

The reason that the naruto clone appears 2x smaller than the other one is because they are right next to the camera, the distance between the closer clone to the camera is the same as the distance between the two clones. While for the giants' ship its distance from the tree is a very small fraction of its distance from pov. (The only possible way for this scan to have an inaccuracy difference way higher than 2x is if you believe that the distance between the ship and the tree is way higher than the distance of our pov from the ship and it obviously is never portrayed to be remotely close to that)
MonkeyOfLife said:
Kachon's version uses scalings that are right next to one another from our pov, hence making it a much more accurate size scaling than the other methods that you used
Click to expand...
Even his version has inaccuracies. For example, in this scan the ship is clearly farther away from us compared to the house, as we see the two boats, which are closer to us compared to the the ship, are right in front of the platform and here one of the smaller houses that is farther away from the part measured of the branch is used when a closer house exists and could be used.

Btw, I added some new versions to Kachon's calc to try to fix some of these issues (there are now 10 total versions for that calc). Which one do you think is the best one? (I personally think it's either v8, v9 or v10)
 
YmTheSuper said:
Yes because as I explained earlier the relation between how large an object is precieved and its distance from the pov are inversely proportional. (for an object to appear 2x smaller than how it currently appears it's distance from pov needs to be 2x larger. I gave an example with the angsize calculator above that if the distance between the ship and the tree is 1/20th of its distance from pov which is somewhat realistic the inaccuracy difference its size would be 1/21x which is 0.047x a very small amount).
Click to expand...
this ignores the difference in sizes that’s being scaled and how the author wants to portray objects, the giant ship can start to look like a dot if it were to be placed further away from our pov

Let’s say currently it’s 12 px, just a small 6 px difference would make that a 2x inaccurate size difference…

YmTheSuper said:
Even his version has inaccuracies. For example, in this scan the ship is clearly farther away from us compared to the house, as we see the two boats, which are closer to us compared to the the ship, are right in front of the platform
Click to expand...
If I remember correctly the ship parked is in front of the house

It’s shown here
YmTheSuper said:
and here one of the smaller houses that is farther away from the part measured of the branch is used when a closer house exists and could be used.
Click to expand...
That’s makes it more inaccurate if you’re using an object closer to us at the edge of scaling instead of using an object that’s more in the middle…
YmTheSuper said:
Btw, I added some new versions to Kachon's calc to try to fix some of these issues (there are now 10 total versions for that calc). Which one do you think is the best one? (I personally think it's either v8, v9 or v10)
Click to expand...
I’ll have to check later but there are other methods that are accurate that can be used as well besides that one. It’s also better to wait a little since we barely know anything about Elbaph, new shots and size scalings are being shown currently in recent chapters
 
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I'll wait for the Calc Group thread I guess.


On a side note, can someone remind me how exactly do ice / freezing attacks get treated when it comes to AP and Striking Strength? Attack potency page describes the rating as the "energy output of a single attack" so it partly makes sense to say "Aokiji was manipulating this level of energy in order to freeze a volume X large" but this shouldn't necessarily mean that it translate to how he manipulates his ice in other ways like throwing ice projectiles, or coating his fist in ice to enhance his punches. Like having the energy require to freeze a body of water doesn't mean adding that same energy as kinetic energy in his punches. I think there was some controversy about freezing attacks a while ago in our system because how attack potency is measured and you're not necessarily damaging someone more if you freeze them just because you could freeze larger and larger volumes of water.
 
Damage3245 said:
I'll wait for the Calc Group thread I guess.


On a side note, can someone remind me how exactly do ice / freezing attacks get treated when it comes to AP and Striking Strength? Attack potency page describes the rating as the "energy output of a single attack" so it partly makes sense to say "Aokiji was manipulating this level of energy in order to freeze a volume X large" but this shouldn't necessarily mean that it translate to how he manipulates his ice in other ways like throwing ice projectiles, or coating his fist in ice to enhance his punches. Like having the energy require to freeze a body of water doesn't mean adding that same energy as kinetic energy in his punches. I think there was some controversy about freezing attacks a while ago in our system because how attack potency is measured and you're not necessarily damaging someone more if you freeze them just because you could freeze larger and larger volumes of water.
Click to expand...
I remember those threads. There were some akin to Avatar The Last Airbender when stuff like the energy to actually burn the air and generate fire isn't the same as the damage that fire actually yields.

I don't wanna go the UES route for the Hie Hie but the Hie Hie works by expelling out cold related things. In this scenario it's just expelling cold from your body. The manner of cold that is expelled scales to all expelling of energy. It's the same as someone like Caesar expelling different gasses. Pumping out cold air and pumping out ice, it should utilize the same amount of energy.
 
Damage3245 said:
I'll wait for the Calc Group thread I guess.


On a side note, can someone remind me how exactly do ice / freezing attacks get treated when it comes to AP and Striking Strength? Attack potency page describes the rating as the "energy output of a single attack" so it partly makes sense to say "Aokiji was manipulating this level of energy in order to freeze a volume X large" but this shouldn't necessarily mean that it translate to how he manipulates his ice in other ways like throwing ice projectiles, or coating his fist in ice to enhance his punches. Like having the energy require to freeze a body of water doesn't mean adding that same energy as kinetic energy in his punches. I think there was some controversy about freezing attacks a while ago in our system because how attack potency is measured and you're not necessarily damaging someone more if you freeze them just because you could freeze larger and larger volumes of water.
Click to expand...
Something something "Strongest Devil Fruit"
 
Damage3245 said:
Could you imagine if we were still using that old invalidated method of calculating lightning attacks by measuring their volume? I feel like Loki would be hitting Large Planet level easily if that was still accepted.
Click to expand...
Something's telling me that large planet is a lowball. That method could turn static electricity from a balloon to wall level if care wasn't taken
 
KingTempest said:
I feel like it's just burning the tree, but it's Oda
Click to expand...

I could see it just being the end of Elbaph, but Loki could do that on his own with just Ragnir. The Devil Fruit has to have more to it than just making him a physically strong Zoan.
 
Damage3245 said:
I could see it just being the end of Elbaph, but Loki could do that on his own with just Ragnir. The Devil Fruit has to have more to it than just making him a physically strong Zoan.
Click to expand...
Maybe something with them frozen giants?
 
Hmm, could be fire-related powers I guess if it is to do with thawing out the giants.

But there's so many fire users in One Piece, I want something a bit more unique from Loki.
 
Maybe heat. If his hammer summons lightning then I wouldn't be surprised if it could just manipulate heat in a way.
 
i had been about 3 chapters behind one piece and just caught up and damn this was a peak conclusion to this flashback. we might be in flashback for 1 or 2 chapters but i think we are very soon going back to the present
 
I’m like 90% I asked this before but wtv. Why are are jibes non current keys only 6-C? Feel like he should’ve always been been 5-C based of feats and narrative.
 
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