The Roaring Knight Vs Sans - Deltarune Vs Undertale (18-14-1) (GRACE ENDED)

[LittleGuy99]

So? Still not made of Biological matter for the Biology manip to do anything

Okay, let's say you're right. Aside from the migraine, he has no counter for anything else, especially not the red wind.

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

Sans under the table fra

 

[Greatsage13th]

Okay, let's say you're right. Aside from the migraine, he has no counter for anything else, especially not the red wind.

How so? What does the red wind do?

 

[LittleGuy99]

How so? What does the red wind do?

Pushes Sans. Is superior to his physical LS

 

[SnakesCity]

How so? What does the red wind do?

Basically the Knight's own TK, it's a strong pushing force they often use in conjunction with sword spam to keep enemies at bay.

i got ninja'd......

 

[Omegabronic]

Pushes Sans. Is superior to his physical LS

Teleportation... his own TK, Time Stoping... just gaster blasting the Knight to stop the wind, he has MANY answers to that

Plus i am pretty sure Sans outskills here

 

[LittleGuy99]

Anyway, I'm going to sleep now. I'll see what happens here tomorrow. I want to see if Sans can handle everything I said here, even in the worst-case scenario

Summary: Red Wind>Sans LS + Teleportation + Sword attacks + Migraine-Make his head spin-Narrow Vision-Perception Manipulation + Homing Attacks + Range

I clearly see that the Knight has a better chance of winning, and in the worst-case scenario, it summons the Titan
Remember, here the Knight doesn't hold back like it did with Kris and their party

I still think the Knight wins Mid/High Diff
Sans has demonstrated at least 21 dodges, and the Knight's attacks would tire him out quickly in just a few turns
Furthermore, it must be taken into account that the Knight can manipulate his perception, possibly give him a migraine, push him with a very strong wind, use telekinesis to move his body

I can see how the two of them would teleport away every chance they got, and Sans has it harder with the homing attacks and the Star Tractor attack
And that's without even mentioning what would happen if the Knight summoned the Titan

 

[SnakesCity]

Teleportation... his own TK, Time Stoping... just gaster blasting the Knight to stop the wind, he has MANY answers to that

Plus i am pretty sure Sans outskills here

TP is a good answer, same with Gaster Blasters, his TK would pin down the Knight but i don't think that helps stop the wind, he also never used the time stop in his fight. I also agree that he probably outskills.

 

[LittleGuy99]

Teleportation... his own TK, Time Stoping... just gaster blasting the Knight to stop the wind, he has MANY answers to that

Plus i am pretty sure Sans outskills here

Teleportation... its own TK. Perception Manipulation... just using its range attacks to stop the blue mode (Preventing Sans from moving his arms), it has MANY answers to that

Okay, I'm going to sleep now. Titan Spawn solos bye

 

[Omegabronic]

Teleportation... its own TK. Perception Manipulation... just using its range attacks to stop the blue mode (Preventing Sans from moving his arms)

THe first one are normal slashes... not ranged attacks, also he couldn't really hold sans due to him TPing away + the Knight doesn't TK People in combat in character

 

[SnakesCity]

THe first one are normal slashes... not ranged attacks, also he couldn't really hold sans due to him TPing away + the Knight doesn't TK People in combat in character

They do multiple times with the Fun Gang...they push them back while constantly pelting them with swords. This happens like 3 or 4 times.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Teleportation... his own TK, Time Stoping... just gaster blasting the Knight to stop the wind, he has MANY answers to that

Plus i am pretty sure Sans outskills here

1. Tracking swords are better than gaster blasters, have a variable time to fire, and shorter time to react.
2. How many time he can TP, if Knight continues to fire dozens and dozens of swords.
3.Red wind folding him like a paper with x400 times LS difference. And it doesn't require any physical action from Knight.
4. Did we play Undertale or Overstory? When did Sans use Time Stop in combat? He isn't Sakuya or Dio. Never mind it being labeled as "likely"

 

[Catbowtie]

Sans FRA

 

[Greatsage13th]

1. Tracking swords are better than gaster blasters, have a variable time to fire, and shorter time to react.

On paper, the gaster blaster's attacks are far faster.

2. How many time he can TP, if Knight continues to fire dozens and dozens of swords.

He can just tp to the opposite side of the sword's spawn point.

3.Red wind folding him like a paper with x400 times LS difference. And it doesn't require any physical action from Knight.

What does it look like in game?

4. Did we play Undertale or Overstory? When did Sans use Time Stop in combat? He isn't Sakuya or Dio. Never mind it being labeled as "likely"

When he sets up attacks like Dio or Sakuya's knives.

 

[Qurbonboev]

On paper, the gaster blaster's attacks are far faster

Both attacks are blitz tier above their combat speed. But Tracking swords are much more difficult to dodge in theory and practice.

He can just tp to the opposite side of the sword's spawn point.

They called tracking swords for a reason

What does it look like in game?

It's just very strong red wind, that significantly slows down Kris(who has x400 LS of Sans).

When he sets up attacks like Dio or Sakuya's knives

Understandable, have a nice day

 

[Greatsage13th]

Both attacks are blitz tier above their combat speed. But Tracking swords are much more difficult to dodge in theory and practice.

Fair, but gaster blasters at max diameter consistently covers more ground than the swords, in addition to having durability negating properties.

They called tracking swords for a reason

I was talking about the regular ones.

It's just very strong red wind, that significantly slows down Kris(who has x400 LS of Sans).

I see. It seems to only be used against someone whose trying to get close to him.

Understandable, have a nice day

Neat.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Fair, but gaster blasters at max diameter consistently covers more ground than the swords, in addition to having durability negating properties

Fair, but my main argument is that Knight won't get hit from them at all. Sans on the other hand would either get hit, or tire out very fast.

I was talking about the regular ones.

Fair. But main threat to Sans(and my playthrough) is tracking swords.

I see. It seems to only be used against someone whose trying to get close to him.

AFAIK, Final attack in battle sucks and push us, ensuring getting hit if you don't resist push(which Sans can't)

 

[Greatsage13th]

Fair, but my main argument is that Knight won't get hit from them at all. Sans on the other hand would either get hit, or tire out very fast.

I doubt that. the fact is: both never fought anyone with a level of danmaku on their level. At least the big upside with Sans is that he can pre plan his attacks in timestop to catch the Knight off guard, which he actually spams a whole lot.

Fair. But main threat to Sans(and my playthrough) is tracking swords.

It is barely better than his regular swords, it doesn't even home in onto their targets but kept at a distance away like a drone as opposed to a missile.

AFAIK, Final attack in battle sucks and push us, ensuring getting hit if you don't resist push(which Sans can't)

The instances where he does use it, he does not do so at the very beginning but like some time after the middle of a fight.

 

[Qurbonboev]

I doubt that. the fact is: both never fought anyone with a level of danmaku on their level. At least the big upside with Sans is that he can pre plan his attacks in timestop to catch the Knight off guard, which he actually spams a whole lot.

From my point of view, tracking swords are much more harder to dodge than blasters. I could sloppily dodge blasters, but need full attention to dodge swords. Swords are objectively harder to dodge due to much shorter window of time for dodge.

It is barely better than his regular swords, it doesn't even home in onto their targets but kept at a distance away like a drone as opposed to a missile

They track you, and after some time(which is variable) they fire, giving target very short time window to dodge. And they appear and fire fast.

The instances where he does use it, he does not do so at the very beginning but like some time after the middle of a fight.

After losing 20% of health, so almost immediately after getting hit in our case

 

[Greatsage13th]

From my point of view, tracking swords are much more harder to dodge than blasters. I could sloppily dodge blasters, but need full attention to dodge swords. Swords are objectively harder to dodge due to much shorter window of time for dodge.

The swords are swords at the end of the day. They may slightly decrease the window of the time to dodge, but the gaster basters make up for it in the form of a beam that's the size of 3 to 5 Kris-es with an almost 100% chance of death.

They track you, and after some time(which is variable) they fire, giving target very short time window to dodge. And they appear and fire fast.

Which is still easier to dodge compared to actual homing attacks; the fact that they maintain a significant distance away from their targets instead of getting straight up in their faces before thrusting. In fact, you may have pretty much made the argument that Sans has the more effective means of attack since his blasters can fire on demand instead of waiting for a significant timeframe before activating.

After losing 20% of health, so almost immediately after getting hit in our case

The knight being in an instant kill range really does not help their case. They'll die before they use it.

 

[EnderLord8]

Sans fra

 

[LittleGuy99]

Sans fra

Sans FRA

Counted
10 votes for Sans
Well, now I have to wait, right?

 

[Qurbonboev]

hey may slightly decrease the window of the time to dodge, but the gaster basters make up for it in the form of a beam that's the size of 3 to 5 Kris-es with an almost 100% chance of death.

And with almost 100% chance of dodging by anyone fast enough or even remotely skilled. Btw, Sans battled with only Flowey(2x times slower and unknown speed) and Frisk(same speed but their attack are simple as hell).

Which is still easier to dodge compared to actual homing attacks

Knight has homing attacks.

since his blasters can fire on demand

How fast can they fire after being put on their place?

The knight being in an instant kill range really does not help their case

Knight won't die immediately. After first hit it will just use Roaring attack(aka Final attack) and if Sans teleports away and back, it will just summon a Titan.

Sans FRA

Grace started after this vote

 

[Greatsage13th]

And with almost 100% chance of dodging by anyone fast enough or even remotely skilled. Btw, Sans battled with only Flowey(2x times slower and unknown speed) and Frisk(same speed but their attack are simple as hell).

Oh wait... That means Sans has experience with fighting danmaku far surpassing his own.

Knight has homing attacks.

Not the heat seeking missile kind I meant. They aren't able to change their alignments post-launch after all.

How fast can they fire after being put on their place?

Fractions of a second. like 0.2 seconds.

Knight won't die immediately. After first hit it will just use Roaring attack(aka Final attack) and if Sans teleports away and back, it will just summon a Titan.

I mean... They might? Sans still has higher AP, along with dura neg and Karma. They'd be by death's door after a single attack lands on them.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Oh wait... That means Sans has experience with fighting danmaku far surpassing his own.

How did you get this conclusion from my reasoning? Flowey is slower, Frisk has no danmaku at all, Knight have same speed as Sans and has actually difficult danmaku.

Fractions of a second. like 0.2 seconds

Is 0.2 seconds are for normal blasters, or only that appear during final attack. Tracking swords have 3 frame time between stopping tracking and firing(0.1 seconds).

Besides, he can teleport out of attacks or stop time and set his attacks while freezing the Knight and their own attacks

Dafuq, when did he did this shit?

Sans still has higher AP

One greatly upscales, another downscales. Being on death door would just trigger titan summoning

 

[LittleGuy99]

What can Sans do if the Knight summons the Titan?

 

[Greatsage13th]

What can Sans do if the Knight summons the Titan?

Fight 'em I guess. He still negates durability.

 

[Greatsage13th]

How did you get this conclusion from my reasoning? Flowey is slower, Frisk has no danmaku at all, Knight have same speed as Sans and has actually difficult danmaku.

Apologies, I had the wrong Flowey in mind.

Is 0.2 seconds are for normal blasters, or only that appear during final attack.

Its almost similar for all.

Tracking swords have 3 frame time between stopping tracking and firing(0.1 seconds).

They still have a red transition state before they can proceed to stab.

Dafuq, when did he did this shit?

By product of time stop shenanigans. It's also in character for him to stop time and put a guy in vaporization distance of multiple gaster blasters.

One greatly upscales, another downscales. Being on death door would just trigger titan summoning

Is it instantaneous? Besides, downscaling from a value is still better than upscaling from a lower value.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Apologies, I had the wrong Flowey in mind.

It's fine. But we agree that without us knowing anything about Flowey, Knight danmaku is much faster and complex by default?

Its almost similar for all.

Would believe your word.

They still have a red transition state before they can proceed to stab.

I counted time after they stop tracking and before they fire(and they cover all screen in one frame during firing).

By product of time stop shenanigans. It's also in character for him to stop time and put a guy in vaporization distance of multiple gaster blasters.

I checked, what exactly does people mean by time stop. It's pretty difficult to dodge obviously, but it's mostly reaction test that can be done by someone 2x slower than them(Frisk without sea tea).

Is it instantaneous? Besides, downscaling from a value is still better than upscaling from a lower value.

Knight just summons swords and they create fountain that constructs Titan. And to damage titan in the first place they would need TP before it's head. Somehow fatally wound it, since karma would just be counteracted by continuous regeneration. And do this when they are surrounded by endlessly spawning Titan Spawns

 

[Omegabronic]

What can Sans do if the Knight summons the Titan?

you mean the bigger target that Sans can use and above with his Durability negation as it covers more area?... what of it? Plus... you assume the Knight would live long enough to even summon it

 

[OrangeFR]

Knight stamina diffs IMO. Sans just won’t last long enough against (insert possessive adjetive pronoun here). Papyraster Holiday FRA

 

[Ti58]

Papyrus FRA because i'm biased

 

[LittleGuy99]

you mean the bigger target that Sans can use and above with his Durability negation as it covers more area?... what of it? Plus... you assume the Knight would live long enough to even summon it

No matter what Sans does, the Titan will continue to regenerate unless Sans affects the dark fountain
Anyway, at this point Sans would be dead thanks to several opponents attacking at the same time

 

[Diamond_Drone]

Roaring Knight FRA I guess

 

[Omegabronic]

No matter what Sans does, the Titan will continue to regenerate unless Sans affects the dark fountain
Anyway, at this point Sans would be dead thanks to several opponents attacking at the same time

Ig... but the Knight won't survive long enoigh to summon the titan, Sans durability neg + higher AP combo would do him pretty hard before that

 

[LittleGuy99]

Ig... but the Knight won't survive long enoigh to summon the titan, Sans durability neg + higher AP combo would do him pretty hard before that

For now, I think it's best to wait for a few more votes. If I continue, I'll just keep repeating things like red wind, perception, homing attacks, teleportation, etc etc
I don't want this discussion to go in circles and I don't think I can change my mind about the Knight winning High Diff
Time to wait

 

[Mommyleona]

Dess fra

 

[Greatsage13th]

Knight stamina diffs IMO. Sans just won’t last long enough against (insert possessive adjetive pronoun here). Papyraster Holiday FRA

Depends, does teleportation drain Sans' stamina?

 

[LittleGuy99]

Depends, does teleportation drain Sans' stamina?

Watching the fight, I'd say that every move tires him out

 

[Greatsage13th]

Watching the fight, I'd say that every move tires him out

If that is so, then his stamina should last the entire fight. Since, we are considering the fact that he had to spam so much of his own abilities to get himself tired out.