Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread

[Viery]

Downgrade all HSR character into 10-C because they can't beat The glorious king phainon.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

even more diabolical thing is somehow question if phainon being able to harm nanook isnt tierable bcs its literally confirmed to have happened like do you want hsr devs to DRAW it for you

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

even more diabolical thing is somehow question if phainon being able to harm nanook isnt tierable bcs its literally confirmed to have happened like do you want hsr devs to DRAW it for you

Didn’t hoyo literally say that same line of code ESCAPED AMPHOREUS to fight Nanook THEMSELVES and even drew blood.

 

[MotherStar]

Play 3.5 and spend like 20 minutes PROPERLY leading dialogues
do the same for 3.6 and you will understand why
putting phainon and any other amphoreus char to the tier 10/11 due to being “line of code” is diabolical bcs sinulations in hoyo can be as real as the real world in there (literally why coralie died in hi3 despite being stabbed in simulation, why phainon was said that he tore the sky open to face nanook and why us dying in amphoreus was prevented thanks to fuli)

So the argument with fuli is fallacious in the sense that the aions look at the scepter and amphoreus and can affect it, then for phainon he remained in amphoreus as proven in 3.6 and above all you cannot be in amphoreus physically but only via avatar or your soul itself (the chryseen heirs are not counted because "born" in amphoreus

 

[MotherStar]

All pathstriders have Hyperversal Range via drawing power from their Aeon. If it weren’t for this weird site change, they would have the hax potency of 12-D. Only Acheron and other Emanators have the AP.

Exactly how is the argument about the ways valid? I mean can they reach it? And for the emanators can they affect the ways?

 

[MotherStar]

even more diabolical thing is somehow question if phainon being able to harm nanook isnt tierable bcs its literally confirmed to have happened like do you want hsr devs to DRAW it for you

If you're talking about Herta's sentence which in English says "The real Nanook", well it's a bad translation, the CN just says "It's Nanook" not "It's the real Nanook"

 

[Ayato256]

List all the missing abilities rq please

AE type 1 for what I already said and I might have thought about avatar creation, but I'm not really sure about that
You have already added what I had to say in the meantime.

I mean, the current Evernight's sandbox has Existence Erasure, which is enough to destroy those with Memokeeper Physiology

Also, Permansor Terrae's sandbox

Actually I just wanted to say that it wasn't highlighted, but in the end after rechecking I have nothing to say, it's good like that
For the DHPT sandbox it is good, even if I have doubts about hax Creation

 

[MotherStar]

Didn’t hoyo literally say that same line of code ESCAPED AMPHOREUS to fight Nanook THEMSELVES and even drew blood.

If he had really escaped, he would not have been absorbed into Iron Tomb and would not be present in 3.6 and for the wounded nanook, it was just an avatar that he sent into amphoreus (I did not say that it was a simulated Nanook but an avatar of Nanook) and do not give me the argument of the VA "Is the real Nanook" because that is not what the CN says

 

[Ayato256]

E2S1 Cyrene or you suffer
^^ V4 is the last beta, they buffed some things but the stack generation is still ass wtf

I'm hesitant to summon her; a friend has already convinced me to prioritize Hyacine for Team Casto, and honestly, I'm really not a fan of Cyrene's new design. I'm very conflicted about the fact that there's no V5 for beta 3.7.
Honorable mention to Mydei who sees his Crit Dmg multiplier increased from 80% to 200% (I don't think this will change the character much since the crit in Hsr is not proportional) he had a good buff
And I'm going to cry for my Evernight who gets locked into sub dps by Cyrene's buff... (it's just a shame that her offensive potential isn't highlighted more)

 

[Ayato256]

have yet to try new Dan Heng heard he is pretty ok
but kinda falls off without LC

Yeah, if you don't have her signature or the Akavasha cone (idk how it's spelled) Preservation from BP, just take a cone from any Path that gives a lot of atk, Himeko's cone for example or Welt's (honorable mention to The Herta sign and her +600 atk flat that I discovered this morning)

 

[Ayato256]

A quick question like that. For those who don't agree with 1-B (a totally ridiculous scale because there is evidence that scales higher), what scale do you put hoyoverse on?

1-A but you already know that since we discuss it a lot

do i smell doubt in my glorious king Phainon!?
NEVER question against my baby boy or else…

There are tons of questions on my end.
Off-topic, but this Evernight PFP is truly magnificent, I'm almost jealous.

Spoiler

Phainon 10-C (that's one line of code)

hmm hmm
otherwise seriously, how is the argument about the tracks valid?

I hope I haven't contaminated you with this Phainon and the Chrysos Heirs stuff

What pathstriders? It’s only ever been Emanators? How is it only range as well?

Phainon

For Iron Tomb it's a possibility and we still don't know if he's talking about TF, for Sunday what's the argument?

Sunday resurrected Ena, we just don't know if it's the avatar or the tf and both are valid, that's what I asked Liewti last time

For Iron Tomb, well yeah, it's a possibility, as long as it doesn't have the feat I think it has nothing to do there (or it should include "eventually or possibly") but I'm still in favor of a Range and AP 1-B for Iron Tomb since it's a very particular case with extremely precise conditions for an Emanator

All pathstriders have Hyperversal Range via drawing power from their Aeon. If it weren’t for this weird site change, they would have the hax potency of 12-D. Only Acheron and other Emanators have the AP.

I find this to be meaningless in terms of range

why us dying in amphoreus was prevented thanks to fuli)

For Caelus this is not really the case, only his consciousness could have died, his body suffered nothing

 

[Voidnether]

For Iron Tomb it's a possibility and we still don't know if he's talking about TF, for Sunday what's the argument?

Dominicus Choir temporarily revived Ena, the voiceline mentioned something about Ena too when it held hand (the fingers nuke thing)

 

[PedjaTarzan]

If you're talking about Herta's sentence which in English says "The real Nanook", well it's a bad translation, the CN just says "It's Nanook" not "It's the real Nanook"

No bro im so sorry i am actually the dumb one here
because why the **** would be even accepting any hoyoverse feat past 6-A because obviously bcs its “avatar” of Nanook therefore ALL possible evidenced shown IN GAME is automatically rejected and therefore all his feats are false
no wonder people behind g1 blogs get to do that type of scaling with no backlash at all
you guys do not deserve the scaling i made here
one day i will revert the verse back to 4-C and it will be thanks to YOU since **** narrative too

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

You guys really abuse the "bad translations" argument, did you become bilingual in Mandarin by any chance? When it comes to downplay, everyone suddenly can now read and understand Mandarin. Do the following then, play the entire game from the very beginning in Chinese with a new account and read every phrase if you want to prove this kind of argument as true

We had a very hard time because of the bullshit about star systems and galaxies, now this

 

[Ayato256]

You guys really abuse the "bad translations" argument, did you become bilingual in Mandarin by any chance? When it comes to downplay, everyone suddenly can now read and understand Mandarin. Do the following then, play the entire game from the very beginning in Chinese with a new account and read every phrase if you want to prove this kind of argument as true

We had a very hard time because of the bullshit about star systems and galaxies, now this

No, this is my argument since I was the one who did the quest in Mandarin and who translated the scans which were not faithful like Herta's
MotherStar can't read Mandarin

No bro im so sorry i am actually the dumb one here
because why the **** would be even accepting any hoyoverse feat past 6-A because obviously bcs its “avatar” of Nanook therefore ALL possible evidenced shown IN GAME is automatically rejected and therefore all his feats are false
no wonder people behind g1 blogs get to do that type of scaling with no backlash at all
you guys do not deserve the scaling i made here
one day i will revert the verse back to 4-C and it will be thanks to YOU since **** narrative too

mmhhh, you get angry quickly, I don't think he meant that

 

[PixiEnd]

Dominicus Choir temporarily revived Ena, the voiceline mentioned something about Ena too when it held hand (the fingers nuke thing)

"Oh Ena... may you return!"

 

[Viery]

No, this is my argument since I was the one who did the quest in Mandarin and who translated the scans which were not faithful like Herta's
MotherStar can't read Mandarin

Can I ask something? Why does the translation “It’s Nanook” mean that Nanook is an avatar? I mean, Herta just pointed out that it is Nanook, right? She never said it was an avatar or the real form. Or is there something in the Mandarin version that makes it clear it’s an avatar? I mean, if one language uses a vague term but another language makes it clearer, I’d prefer to trust the “official” one, since they know more about their own game than we do.

 

[Ayato256]

Can I ask something? Why does the translation “It’s Nanook” mean that Nanook is an avatar? I mean, Herta just pointed out that it is Nanook, right? She never said it was an avatar or the real form. Or is there something in the Mandarin version that makes it clear it’s an avatar? I mean, if one language uses a vague term but another language makes it clearer, I’d prefer to trust the “official” one, since they know more about their own game than we do.

she makes no distinction between the avatar and the tf
the fact that it is an avatar comes from the game itself in reality since it introduces you to beings who are forced to use an avatar to descend into the lower dimension, that's all nothing more nothing less
To put it simply, if you follow what the game tells you, it is not possible that the Nanook who was present in Amphoreus is his real body since he is supposed to be in the higher dimension
in fact even in VA Herta's statement is not "false" in the sense that it confirms to you that it was not a metaphor and indeed a real event, but otherwise if it is to prove that Phainon reached a higher dimension, not a great argument

 

[Viery]

she makes no distinction between the avatar and the tf
the fact that it is an avatar comes from the game itself in reality since it introduces you to beings who are forced to use an avatar to descend into the lower dimension, that's all nothing more nothing less
To put it simply, if you follow what the game tells you, it is not possible that the Nanook who was present in Amphoreus is his real body since he is supposed to be in the higher dimension
in fact even in VA Herta's statement is not "false" in the sense that it confirms to you that it was not a metaphor and indeed a real event, but otherwise if it is to prove that Phainon reached a higher dimension, not a great argument

I mean, let’s look at it from HoYo’s perspective. The game may state that there’s no real form present in the lower dimension, but it never says that an avatar is inferior to the real form. Moreover, if the Nanook that Phainon injured was just an avatar, I don’t think Lygus would have been impressed, since his goal is to kill the real form, not just an avatar.

So, the fact that the Chinese version says Herta makes no distinction between the avatar and the real form, while the English version leans more toward calling it the “real” Nanook — combined with Lygus’s reaction to Phainon — makes me think that, from HoYo’s perspective, they don’t really care about distinguishing between avatars and real forms, since neither is explicitly stated to be inferior or superior to the other.

 

[Ayato256]

I mean, let’s look at it from HoYo’s perspective. The game may state that there’s no real form present in the lower dimension, but it never says that an avatar is inferior to the real form. Moreover, if the Nanook that Phainon injured was just an avatar, I don’t think Lygus would have been impressed, since his goal is to kill the real form, not just an avatar.

So, the fact that the Chinese version says Herta makes no distinction between the avatar and the real form, while the English version leans more toward calling it the “real” Nanook — combined with Lygus’s reaction to Phainon — makes me think that, from HoYo’s perspective, they don’t really care about distinguishing between avatars and real forms, since neither is explicitly stated to be inferior or superior to the other.

The problem in this situation is that we already accept that the true form of an Aeon is infinitely superior to its avatar, this is something that is in the immortality type 9 of the Aeon Physiology

And then again, I would have agreed that a higher dimensional body and a lower dimensional body could have exactly the same power if they share the same essence, but this is not the case since one is perceptible while the other is not.
If I may say so, I didn't feel any emotion from Zandar when he spoke about this. I see this situation more as "Zandar presents Phainon to you as the first mortal to have affected a god." I only felt his emotions when he said he wanted an answer about his current state (if his spirit is broken or if he's still fighting the Black Tide)

Hoyo doesn't really do anything illogical, just things that are inconsistent for players because the information they give will be supplemented with other information in the future.

 

[Viery]

The problem in this situation is that we already accept that the true form of an Aeon is infinitely superior to its avatar, this is something that is in the immortality type 9 of the Aeon Physiology

And then again, I would have agreed that a higher dimensional body and a lower dimensional body could have exactly the same power if they share the same essence, but this is not the case since one is perceptible while the other is not.

But the wiki said this though

a higher-dimensional entity can be both stronger or weaker than a lower-dimensional one, and thus, they are usually quantified based on their own feats, instead of dimensionality alone

So The Avatar that have the same scaling as the true form is not really a problem

And didn't immortality type 9 just " The true form doesn’t die just because its avatar is killed, since they exist independently?."

If I may say so, I didn't feel any emotion from Zandar when he spoke about this. I see this situation more as "Zandar presents Phainon to you as the first mortal to have affected a god." I only felt his emotions when he said he wanted an answer about his current state (if his spirit is broken or if he's still fighting the Black Tide)

He definetly excited, you can tell from the tone when he said this

He suffered a tragic defeat, but also achieved a legendary deed..

In the English voice acting, his robotic tone is gone, and in the Japanese voice acting, his tone becomes higher when he says “Legendary deed.”

Hoyo doesn't really do anything illogical, just things that are inconsistent for players because the information they give will be supplemented with other information in the future.

Yeah, but they do retcon things too, so maybe in the past they wanted the real form to be superior. However, Until now I still don’t see any evidence that proves the true form is actually superior to the avatar.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

just a third reminder that it is practically pointless to argue the difference between avatar and true form because someone already tried to make an avatar key of all the aeons to downgrade them but got unanimously rejected from staffs because their avatar is practically 1-B as well

 

[Voidnether]

just a third reminder that it is practically pointless to argue the difference between avatar and true form because someone already tried to make an avatar key of all the aeons to downgrade them but got unanimously rejected from staffs because their avatar is practically 1-B as well

 

[Ayato256]

So The Avatar that have the same scaling as the true form is not really a problem

And didn't immortality type 9 just " The true form doesn’t die just because its avatar is killed, since they exist independently?.

and the inner forms of THEMSELVES are true infinity beyond perception

Yeah, but they do retcon things too, so maybe in the past they wanted the real form to be superior. However, Until now I still don’t see any evidence that proves the true form is actually superior to the avatar.

doubtful since they have reinforced the higher reality with the Anāsravana

just a third reminder that it is practically pointless to argue the difference between avatar and true form because someone already tried to make an avatar key of all the aeons to downgrade them but got unanimously rejected from staffs because their avatar is practically 1-B as well

Avatar 1-B is more of a wank than anything else

 

[PedjaTarzan]

doubtful since they have reinforced the higher reality with the Anāsravana

Avatar 1-B is more of a wank than anything else

crt is for you then

 

[Cloozuma]

So when is Phainon getting added to the Kevin Kaslana character tab

 

[PedjaTarzan]

ill just point out this image and i truly hope this ends the phainon debate abt his feats
when the first genius society member, the creator of ACTUAL AEON and the one who has their conciousness in THEM (according to dhpt relic lore) tells you that he achieved LEGENDARY feat and dan heng adds with capped THEM (not just in a sense of pronouncication) you know the shit is real
but obviously gacha games are doomed by insufferable people given even on screen feats like phantylia boss fight cyrene ulti and firefly animated short are disregarded with most assine arguments that even Mythus gets jealous of

 

[Le'garde273]

... It's been more than two months and yet there's peoples who still debating khaslana wounded nanook or not?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

but obviously gacha games are doomed by insufferable people given even on screen feats like phantylia boss fight cyrene ulti and firefly animated short are disregarded with most assine arguments that even Mythus gets jealous of

I think this is only a problem with HSR and Genshin, the other gacha games are still flowing fine for now (FGO is now free from Marshadow so it's no longer insufferable)

 

[Lawiegg]

Unrelated but I want a New for for Sampo...... And a good feat for Elations gang

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

I was thinking in making a CRT to "Embryo of Philosophy" Sunday to get an "eventually 1-B" along with Aeon Physiology since he was about to ascend into Aeonhood if he had not been stopped by Astral Express, just like Infinite Zamasu got his "eventually Low 1-C" if he had not been nuked by Zeno, but I am just too lazy to do it myself

Ngl I didnt know you said this when the crt was made LMAO

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Base Aventurine has stats now

Aventurine

Aventurine (アベンチュリン, Abenchurin?), whose true name is Kakavasha, is a senior manager in the IPC Strategic Investment Department and one of the Ten Stonehearts. His Cornerstone is "Aventurine of Stratagems". He possesses an air of frivolity and doesn't shy away from taking risks. His constant...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Ayato256]

crt is for you then

Maybe if I stop being lazy
Honestly, the only real sticking point in the old CRT for avatars was Aeon Ascension. I'm not sure how to handle that between avatar and TF, it's more like a state where they're both or neither.

Unrelated but I want a New for for Sampo...... And a good feat for Elations gang

It would be a bit good to see him find his mask again, which he managed to lose like a real airhead.

Base Aventurine has stats now

Aventurine

Aventurine (アベンチュリン, Abenchurin?), whose true name is Kakavasha, is a senior manager in the IPC Strategic Investment Department and one of the Ten Stonehearts. His Cornerstone is "Aventurine of Stratagems". He possesses an air of frivolity and doesn't shy away from taking risks. His constant...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Neutral

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Maybe if I stop being lazy Honestly, the only real sticking point in the old CRT for avatars was Aeon Ascension. I'm not sure how to handle that between avatar and TF, it's more like a state where they're both or neither.

make them 1-A and u did 90% of the job for avatars

 

[Ayato256]

make them 1-A and u did 90% of the job for avatars

I have the impression that if this verse is not 1-A, the majority of the information flies off to other skies, due to a lack of restricted coherence.
People will question the qualitative superiority because of the fact that an Aeon is able to Ascend to become a higher being (not an automatic disqualifier by the way)

and then I think if a CRT 1-A comes out, Telomera will spawn with transdual type 3 arguments while using plot and text manipulation to block the CRT ;-;

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Neutral

Neutral on what

 

[Shiroiyo]

Said user hasnt been successful in downgrading anything after that, just take a look at the 1-B and Sonic fiascos. The downgrade was a pre-accepted thread with a standard change in the middle of it. Nothing much to do about it during that time, most of the evidence for PS rating were never addressed or just straight up lied about.

Currently it is even possible to do a partial re-upgrade, and no one shouldn't try because "Oh, someone will disagree" or otherwise this verse wouldn't even be tier 5. You guys just need to plan it very well, and it shouldn't be hard.

 

[Ayato256]

Neutral on what

On the basic stats Aventupoop (I hate him)
I don't really know what to say about it other than it's good? At least the "unknown" mention should be expanded to more characters even if it's still a good start

 

[Ayato256]

Said user hasnt been successful in downgrading anything after that, just take a look at the 1-B and Sonic fiascos. The downgrade was a pre-accepted thread with a standard change in the middle of it. Nothing much to do about it during that time, most of the evidence for PS rating were never addressed or just straight up lied about.

Currently it is even possible to do a partial re-upgrade, and no one shouldn't try because "Oh, someone will disagree" or otherwise this verse wouldn't even be tier 5. You guys just need to plan it very well, and it shouldn't be hard.

I know, but I couldn't help but make the joke because I don't like seeing context cut out.
Sorry (⁠•⁠ ⁠▽⁠ ⁠•⁠;⁠)

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Said user hasnt been successful in downgrading anything after that, just take a look at the 1-B and Sonic fiascos. The downgrade was a pre-accepted thread with a standard change in the middle of it. Nothing much to do about it during that time, most of the evidence for PS rating were never addressed or just straight up lied about.

Currently it is even possible to do a partial re-upgrade, and no one shouldn't try because "Oh, someone will disagree" or otherwise this verse wouldn't even be tier 5. You guys just need to plan it very well, and it shouldn't be hard.

Sirin aired out by a nuke ah.