Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[Bimbitesthedust]

Curse Energy UES categorization (JJK)

Introduction Hello everyone I know that we have been hit with many CRT’s relating to the verses ap, speed, etc and so for something different today's CRT will be about something different. The power system of Curse Energy and its relation to Universal Energy Systems (UES) and its subcategories...

vsbattles.com

Chat we may have news

Ok chat I think now we have it completed

Cause we got three staff votes

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Ok chat I think now we have it completed

Cause we got three staff votes

Wait, can we scale attacks to Jogo's meteor now?

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

Wait, can we scale attacks to Jogo's meteor now?

not sure because we have to figure out the scaling now that we are using NPES and UES for Ryu specifically

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

also I think that we should focus on the scaling for some characters who might not be getting as much support/updates

Disaster Curses, Sukuna at 2/3 fingers, etc might need some update in scaling

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

Additionally at some point I might do a sandbox for disaster curses group profile which could be fun to use for versus threads

 

[Baken384]

Wait, can we scale attacks to Jogo's meteor now?

No.

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

Gonna start with a sandbox for some scaling revisions

Outside of the Uraume Max Frost calc, what other calcs (Outside of the gojo earthquake one) do we use for scaling?

Edit - Im realizing that I have some questions because I think the Toji in Shibuya was stronger than the Toji in Hidden Inventory so does Toji in HI downscale from Prime Toji Zenin?

 

[Buraqibear]

Im realizing that I have some questions because I think the Toji in Shibuya was stronger than the Toji in Hidden Inventory so does Toji in HI downscale from Prime Toji Zenin?

Toji said he was rusty in skill, he never said he got weaker

 

[Buraqibear]

What? A holding back Hakari was beating the shit out of Yuji and Yuji's only attack didn't even affect him. Remember this Yuji is at the Peak of Grade 1s in stats (arguably higher)

We don't know If he was holding back or not, and Yuji wasn't even trying to fight back against him and could still tank his punches without much damage. Hakari needed to get Yuji off guard to blitz him

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

Toji said he was rusty in skill, he never said he got weaker

In the CH 98 extra the CT is stated that the reason she says Toji Zenin and not Toji Fushiguro is that Toji Zenin is closer to the height of his powers. Additionally Iirc the Maki being equal to toji statement refers to Toji Zenin rather than Toji Fushiguro (Keep in mind this is an author statement)



Im not sure how to fully explain it but there might be a case that the Toji in HI might be a bit weaker than the Toji that was awakened via necromancy

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

Maybe it could be a muscle memory thing since he does seem rusty but Imo Toji in HI is still more powerful than the Toji in Shibuya because the playful cloud even with its power amp still isnt as good as say the Isoh or Soul Split katana

also toji has the funny worm so yeah

 

[JnSteHar002]

 

[Buraqibear]

In the CH 98 extra the CT is stated that the reason she says Toji Zenin and not Toji Fushiguro is that Toji Zenin is closer to the height of his powers. Additionally Iirc the Maki being equal to toji statement refers to Toji Zenin rather than Toji Fushiguro (Keep in mind this is an author statement)



Im not sure how to fully explain it but there might be a case that the Toji in HI might be a bit weaker than the Toji that was awakened via necromancy

Huh. The more you know

 

[Buraqibear]

Ahh the goat he's so raw

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

Huh. The more you know

Yeah Prime Toji may scale with Maki

But Hidden Inventory Toji would likely downscale from Prime Toji which just means that Gojo and Geto might not have as much of a upgrade in stats outside of them being superior to Grade 1's and Special Grade 1's like the zenin clan

In other news, I'd argue that disaster curses may scale higher tbh unless you think that Dagon is the physically most powerful in the group due to him (albeit in domain) tanking hits from a playful cloud amped Toji Zenin which should be crazy given that he should scale relatively to Maki in physicals

 

[Buraqibear]

Have we already discussed why Atomization isn't used to calculate Purple? Since Limitless was stated all the way back in JJK 0 to bend space on an atomic level

 

[ShionAH]

We don't know If he was holding back or not

He says he is feeling cold, we know Hakari is at full power when he feels the fever.

and Yuji wasn't even trying to fight back against him

He literally tries at the start, realising it does not work he stops fighting back

and could still tank his punches without much damage. Hakari needed to get Yuji off guard to blitz him

"Tank" and "without damage".

 

[Buraqibear]

He says he is feeling cold, we know Hakari is at full power when he feels the fever.

Full power mentally, sure. But that doesn't mean not feeling the fever makes him physically weaker

He literally tries at the start, realising it does not work he stops fighting back

He was trying to prove a point by not fighting. Not by beating Hakari up

"Tank" and "without damage".

3 Punches caused a nosebleed. Wow very strong

What exactly even makes base Hakari comparable to other heavy hitters? What feats? Maki could keep up with a 16F Meguna physically and was complimented by that Meguna, with the same Meguna having knocked Yuji out cold with a single kick, a stronger Yuji than the one Hakari beat up since he was at full power. And no, Sukuna wasn't getting affected physically, he literally said he is unhindered physically

 

[ShionAH]

Full power mentally, sure. But that doesn't mean not feeling the fever makes him physically weaker

It makes him weaker. He was feeling cold, similar to Sukuna he wouldn't be going all out

He was trying to prove a point by not fighting. Not by beating Hakari up

He was trying to fight back in the building, he stops outside.

3 Punches caused a nosebleed. Wow very strong

Are we fr? Hakari flipping Yuji over with one strike is good, he doesn't need to break Yuji's neck to be stronger than him

What exactly even makes base Hakari comparable to other heavy hitters? What feats? Maki could keep up with a 16F Meguna physically and was complimented by that Meguna, with the same Meguna having knocked Yuji out cold with a single kick, a stronger Yuji than the one Hakari beat up since he was at full power. And no, Sukuna wasn't getting affected physically, he literally said he is unhindered physically

If we are going down this route then I can easily counter this by showing how that Maki and Yuji were tagged once then became helpless against a holding back Uraume, the same Uraume that Hakari survived while she was at full power (In Base)

 

[Axxtentacle]

What exactly even makes base Hakari comparable to other heavy hitters? What feats? Maki could keep up with a 16F Meguna physically and was complimented by that Meguna, with the same Meguna having knocked Yuji out cold with a single kick, a stronger Yuji than the one Hakari beat up since he was at full power. And no, Sukuna wasn't getting affected physically, he literally said he is unhindered physically

"A 16F physical sukuna" as if unhindered physically wasn't talking about bodily control lmao

Because Maki ~ Yuta ~ Ryu <<< 16F sukuna ~ Maki makes sense as a scaling chain

"Yuta wasn't holding back against Yuji" ahh argument

 

[ShionAH]

"A 16F physical sukuna" as if unhindered physically wasn't talking about bodily control lmao

people forget how 15F Sukuna solos the verse (expect HIM)

 

[ElJoaki5]

people forget how 15F Sukuna solos the verse (expect HIM)

Kashimo is 17 f

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

Kashimo is 17 f

Wakari upscale

real talk Kashimo in base is not comparable to 15-16 f Sukuna, MBA might be a bit faster but realistically Sukuna domains him or gets maho if meguna is in the question

 

[ShionAH]

MBA might be a bit faster

Sukuna would run 87 laps around MBA before he blinks.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Kashimo is 17 f

Liar

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

Sukuna would run 87 laps around MBA before he blinks.

idk

I know we meme about MBA kashimo fighting a injured and weakened 19-20f Meguna but its still Meguna at that level

he may retain some speed granted True Form Sukuna mops him however since True form helps give an extra life via repairing the body (I dont think it replenished CE Iirc)

So maybe Kashimo w MBA might be faster than 15-16 Sukuna but thats a high if, other than that he gets victimized by 15f-16 Sukuna

 

[ShionAH]

idk

You are underastimating the GAP between Suk and Gojo compared to the rest of the verse. Sukuna BLITZED Ryu and one shot him, no other character is blitzing Ryu other than Gojo and maybe Shinjuku Mahoraga. Let alone one shotting him (Literally the best durability or atleast close)

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

IDK what you guys are arguing, we all know Kashimo gets fingered 20 times... wait

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

You are underastimating the GAP between Suk and Gojo compared to the rest of the verse. Sukuna BLITZED Ryu and one shot him, no other character is blitzing Ryu other than Gojo and maybe Shinjuku Mahoraga. Let alone one shotting him (Literally the best durability or atleast close)

Ryu is a Tank and a powerhouse but his case was always more of ap and Dura

Kashimo is often known for being a fast sorcerer, I'd argue that he might be a bit faster than Ryu since Hakari and Yuta have relativity and Base Kashimo was able to keep up with Jackpot Hakari (Until Hakari began locking in more but thats another thing) so MBA Kashimo can be potentially faster

potentially being the key word because MBA Kashimo's fight wasnt really the best in understanding his power and speed

Additionally unless we begin to separate reaction/combat speed from travel speed for high/God Tiers (which is also another can of worms) Kashimo can catch 15f Sukuna offguard with an EM wave given its lightspeed

but realistically 15-16f Sukuna is rocking his shit like if you put Kashimo when Jogo was feeding the fingers to Sukuna and made them box, Sukuna's wiping him

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

idk

I know we meme about MBA kashimo fighting a injured and weakened 19-20f Meguna but its still Meguna at that level

he may retain some speed granted True Form Sukuna mops him however since True form helps give an extra life via repairing the body (I dont think it replenished CE Iirc)

So maybe Kashimo w MBA might be faster than 15-16 Sukuna but thats a high if, other than that he gets victimized by 15f-16 Sukuna

TF Sukuna (Of that time) was still weaker than 16F Sukuna

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

IDK what you guys are arguing, we all know Kashimo gets fingered 20 times... wait

Brother...

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

IDK what you guys are arguing, we all know Kashimo gets fingered 20 times... wait

Femboy Kashimo hit every Kashimo fan like the CIA was behind it

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Full power mentally, sure. But that doesn't mean not feeling the fever makes him physically weaker

He was trying to prove a point by not fighting. Not by beating Hakari up

3 Punches caused a nosebleed. Wow very strong

What exactly even makes base Hakari comparable to other heavy hitters? What feats? Maki could keep up with a 16F Meguna physically and was complimented by that Meguna, with the same Meguna having knocked Yuji out cold with a single kick, a stronger Yuji than the one Hakari beat up since he was at full power. And no, Sukuna wasn't getting affected physically, he literally said he is unhindered physically

Hakari downplay in 2025?
Also you are wrong about Maki comparable to 16F Meguna. Not to mention you are acting like Sukuna not having hate agenda against Yuji at that point.

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

TF Sukuna (Of that time) was still weaker than 16F Sukuna

maybe after some soul rattling from Yuji and Maki but honestly TF Sukuna upon refresh might be as physically good as 15-16F Sukuna

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Kashimo is often known for being a fast sorcerer, I'd argue that he might be a bit faster than Ryu since Hakari and Yuta have relativity and Base Kashimo was able to keep up with Jackpot Hakari (Until Hakari began locking in more but thats another thing) so MBA Kashimo can be potentially faster

Quick reminder Yuta kinda reacted to a point blank world slash and had enough time to bring his arms up to brace himself for the attack while Kashimo had to be warned by Sukuna and despite the big distance between them Sukuna still clipped Kashimo's hand

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

Quick reminder Yuta kinda reacted to a point blank world slash and had enough time to bring his arms up to brace himself for the attack while Kashimo had to be warned by Sukuna and despite the big distance between them Sukuna still clipped Kashimo's hand

Im talking Yuta Pre Shinjiku

I dont think Kashimo trained at all so he didnt really grow as much

Unless the anime gives him more scenes and shows him training his ass didnt train at all

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Quick reminder Yuta kinda reacted to a point blank world slash and had enough time to bring his arms up to brace himself for the attack while Kashimo had to be warned by Sukuna and despite the big distance between them Sukuna still clipped Kashimo's hand

Quick Reminder Sukuna who warned Kashimo and Sukuna who cooked Yuta were not in same condition. Also I don't know where you got the idea Yuta defended himself after the slash was fired. Where he could have tried to defend himself when Sukuna's hand was moved. That scene was offscreen. You are just assuming.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

maybe after some soul rattling from Yuji and Maki but honestly TF Sukuna upon refresh might be as physically good as 15-16F Sukuna

His CE was still down even without the nerfs and even a nerfed sukuna thought he'd oneshot with cleave.
He's no 16F level and 16F sukuna washes the verse (with exception to Gojo, of course) if he tries.

 

[LIGHTYW]

Quick reminder Yuta kinda reacted to a point blank world slash and had enough time to bring his arms up to brace himself for the attack while Kashimo had to be warned by Sukuna and despite the big distance between them Sukuna still clipped Kashimo's hand

STOP DOWNPLAYING KASHIMO AKA THE GOAT, KASHIMO ACTUALLY DODGED WCS WHILE YUTA DIDNT
IF YUTA WAS ACTUALLY REACTING TO WCS WHY DIDNT HE REACTED TO SUKUNA POINTING TO HIM AND TRIED TO DO SOMETHING BEFORE WCS WAS EVEN FIRED INSTEAD OF JUST STANDING THERE ? BECAUSE HES BUMM
APPLES AND ORANGES MY GUY, APPLES AND ORANGES

KASHIMO IS THE GOAT, TOP 3 AND FASTER THAN EVERYONE, YALL WILL SEE THIS EVEB MORE ON THE ANIME VERSION WHEN THEY MAKE A 10 MIN FIGHT

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

STOP DOWNPLAYING KASHIMO AKA THE GOAT, KASHIMO ACTUALLY DODGED WCS WHILE YUTA DIDNT
IF YUTA WAS ACTUALLY REACTING TO WCS WHY DIDNT HE REACTED TO SUKUNA POINTING TO HIM AND TRIED TO DO SOMETHING BEFORE WCS WAS EVEN FIRED INSTEAD OF JUST STANDING THERE ? BECAUSE HES BUMM
APPLES AND ORANGES MY GUY, APPLES AND ORANGES

KASHIMO IS THE GOAT, TOP 3 AND FASTER THAN EVERYONE, YALL WILL SEE THIS EVEB MORE ON THE ANIME VERSION WHEN THEY MAKE A 10 MIN FIGHT

Base Kashimo gets violated by JP Wakari

Yutaliban, crush his skull

Edit - Kashimo might win mid to high diff against Hakari in JP because of 4 min and 11 seconds limit