Weakest Monster vs. Control Devil (Sans vs. Makima) (8-13-1) (Grace Ended)

[Reploidnoridomix]

That's because she doesn't herself, her contract just auto law manipulation at work, she doesn't have to do anything herself.

that doesn't make sense, law manip also have it own degree, if you assume like this, it gonna be NLF

 

[Reploidnoridomix]

He can't see or sense it.

he doesn't need to see, he just auto dodge it by his Instinctive Action

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

does sans reaction speed is higher than the “bang”, according to profile, there are hypersonic and massively hypersonic, i don’t know which one is used

The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight, etc.

As in, Makima's Bang is going to be x50 sans' speed here, it'd be akin to a turtle trying to dodge a speeding car. The turtle being sans

Hmn, gonna vote san cuz the distance between them is very close so sans gonna use his special move right away and vaporize makima instantly, also yeah makima have precog, but I don’t think it potent enough to dodge san’s attack, i mean i don’t see how this precog interact with danmaku though

The precog would tell her that the attack is coming from under her, for her to die there she'd need to just, do nothing and let it kill her instead of just floating up, when her future sight prepares her for this like 6 seconds in advance. Also it's called his Strongest Attack not his Special Attack, the Special Attack is the one where he keeps having his turn forever

 

[Gamecooob]

he doesn't need to see, he just auto dodge it by his Instinctive Action

nah ive never bought this
Sans dodged Frisk in his sleep cuz' its a child running up and swinging a knife with a wide motion.

This is just a gesture from far-away which is 50x faster than Sans, he not dodgin this (if she even gets the opportunity to do it)

 

[GunshyFever]

theres kinda just 0 evidence that this extends to soul damage.
just cuz its "law manipulation" doesnt mean it automatically makes it extend to anything else, otherwise Makima couldn't lose in any thread.

From the Law Manipulation page:

"The ability to manipulate "laws" that automatically apply themselves upon reality, referring to rules, mandates and even fundamental logical principles/truths/facts that are the way in which a reality may function."

In this context, the laws of reality restore Makima to her prior state, so soul manipulation would not have a lasting effect, as reality simply reverts it.

You are also mistaken, there is one primary way around Makima's contract which is enlisted on her profile:

Her damage transference contract itself can also be bypassed by injuring/killing her without violent intent, which was a loophole that Denji was able to figure out to put her down permanently by cannibalizing her in what he describes as an act of love, and wanting "to be one with her".

you still havent saved Pochita from Makima in the other thread

I’m not really feeling all the Makima match ups recently, it’s all just rinse and repeat really. Pochita vs Makima is different but I decided to speak here because there isn't really much I have to say in contrast.

He wouldn't need to. He can dodge attacks in his sleep.

He can dodge a knife swung at him repeatedly throughout an entire battle, a physical attack is far different from an invisible projectile he's never seen, isn’t even aware of and has no idea how to counter.

 

[Arkansalter2]

isn’t even aware of and has no idea how to counter.

Well if he can't dodge attacks in his sleep (because he would have his eyes closed), everything would technically be invisible and he was pretty much unaware... since he was sleep.

 

[GunshyFever]

Well if he can't dodge attacks in his sleep (because he would have his eyes closed), everything would technically be invisible and he was pretty much unaware... since he was sleep.

You also forgot the entire first half of my statement, adjustment, Sans was fighting frisk over and over for a prolonged battle, he got used to her one and only attack pattern, along with knowing how the game functions and all.

 

[Gamecooob]

In this context, the laws of reality restore Makima to her prior state, so soul manipulation would not have a lasting effect, as reality simply reverts it.

Yeah, "reality" is not "restoring her to her prior state", its just transferring lethal damage to some random people in Japan.
And this ability, again, hasn't been shown to extend to soul destruction.

With your interpretation, she basically has Gold Experience Requiem, which is kinda impractical narratively

 

[GunshyFever]

Yeah, "reality" is not "restoring her to her prior state", its just transferring lethal damage to some random people in Japan.
And this ability, again, hasn't been shown to extend to soul destruction.

With your interpretation, she basically has Gold Experience Requiem, which is kinda impractical narratively

It’s not just transferring lethal damage, the contract transfers lethal damage to random Japanese citizens in order to restore her to her prior state. It doesn't need to be shown to an extent of soul manipulation, because law manipulation overrides it. The only situation where that would be viable is when we're talking solely about regeneration or resurrection on their own.

 

[Gamecooob]

It’s not just transferring lethal damage, the contract transfers lethal damage to random Japanese citizens in order to restore her to her prior state. It doesn't need to be shown to an extent of soul manipulation, because law manipulation overrides it. The only situation where that would be viable is when we're talking solely about regeneration or resurrection on their own.

Gunshy

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

It’s not just transferring lethal damage, the contract transfers lethal damage to random Japanese citizens in order to restore her to her prior state. It doesn't need to be shown to an extent of soul manipulation, because law manipulation overrides it. The only situation where that would be viable is when we're talking solely about regeneration or resurrection on their own.

How do you explain Power's Chainsaw?

 

[GunshyFever]

How do you explain Power's Chainsaw?

Here.

 

[GunshyFever]

Gunshy

 

[Gamecooob]

i aint even like sans yet I defended him like Kachon does to Garou for some reason

 

[VoidGoji]

It says "higher" because he can IA/dodge attacks in his sleep.

Which is weird since his IA immediately fails to dodge the following attack

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

He wouldn't need to. He can dodge attacks in his sleep.

He wouldn't need to. He can dodge attacks in his sleep.

he doesn't need to see, he just auto dodge it by his Instinctive Action

Are we actually being serious?

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

sans has too many anti feats

Apparently so because some over here believe because San's can dodge attacks in his sleep translates to him being able to dodge FTL and MFTL attacks. Like what

 

[Reploidnoridomix]

Apparently so because some over here believe because San's can dodge attacks in his sleep translates to him being able to dodge FTL and MFTL attacks. Like what

nah, no way, who believe that

 

[ShionAH]

I thought you left versus battles?

I had to vote my boy, I will leave again when my rick crt passes

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

nah, no way, who believe that

he doesn't need to see, he just auto dodge it by his Instinctive Action

This is giving off that exact implication. I feel like this is just stretching San's capabilities Bang moves 50x faster (which is beyond the speedblitz range like dozen's of times over) than both these rookies can even perceive or think- especially when they start 5 meters apart. That's near physical reach range. San's can't outrange it, sense it, move faster than it, dodge it or idek.

 

[Reploidnoridomix]

This is giving off that exact implication. I feel like this is just stretching San's capabilities Bang moves 50x faster (which is beyond the speedblitz range like dozen's of times over) than both these rookies can even perceive or think- especially when they start 5 meters apart. That's near physical reach range. San's can't outrange it, sense it, move faster than it, dodge it or idek.

i thought sans reaction speed is higher, like makima only have 4603 mach while sans is above 5302 mach

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

i thought sans reaction speed is higher, like makima only have 4603 mach while sans is above 5302 mach

They're both equalized down to Hypersonic+ (San's mach 10 value) due to Speed Equalization rules. As such Makima retains her higher attack speed value (Massively Hypersonic+). Sans doesn't have his MHS+ rating as combat speed is equalized down to the slower character

 

[Reploidnoridomix]

They're both equalized down to Hypersonic+ (San's mach 10 value) due to Speed Equalization rules. As such Makima retains her higher attack speed value (Massively Hypersonic+). Sans doesn't have his MHS+ rating as combat speed is equalized down to the slower character

his abilities should still be the same no ? If his IR is reduced then doesn't this is a mismatch if makima win because of makima's higher attack speed

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

his abilities should still be the same no ? If his IR is reduced then doesn't this is a mismatch if makima win because of makima's higher attack speed

His abilities retain their "Higher Attack speed" and he does retain his "Higher Reaction speed" but there's no value attached to them akin with Makima. Both San's Hypersonic and Massively Hypersonic+ justifications are in relation to combat speed. They can't be linked to anything else like attack speed which the profile makes clear by displacing his reaction and gaster blast speeds differently.

 

[StormAcci]

Soul hax merchant FRA

 

[Arkansalter2]

Which is weird since his IA immediately fails to dodge the following attack

Only because Frisk broke the game rules.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Only because Frisk broke the game rules.

It's still just Frisk attacking him with a knife, just unexpected this time.

 

[Arkansalter2]

It's still just Frisk attacking him with a knife, just unexpected this time.

• Instinctive Action (Is capable of dodging attacks while he was deep asleep, only getting hit when Frisk broke the game's combat system)

 

[Catbowtie]

Sans FRA

This was the vote that started Grace. Grace is over y'all

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Instinctive Action (Is capable of dodging attacks while he was deep asleep, only getting hit when Frisk broke the game's combat system)

They attacked twice in their turn, that's how they broke the combat system. It's still just them slashing sans with a knife.

 

[LaserPrecision]

It’s not just transferring lethal damage, the contract transfers lethal damage to random Japanese citizens in order to restore her to her prior state. It doesn't need to be shown to an extent of soul manipulation, because law manipulation overrides it. The only situation where that would be viable is when we're talking solely about regeneration or resurrection on their own.

I just want to reply to this before it gets glossed over and used elsewhere, but law manipulation does not at all override soul stuff. All hax are only assumed to work on things they've been shown to work on (Or things at least similar to what they've been shown to work on). It would be like arguing she can transfer someone using some niche erasure hax that gives her nonexistence physiology and transfer that to someone else despite never being shown to do that. If she's transferred soul hax, sure, that's fine. If all she's been shown to do is transfer physical damage, that's assumed to be the limit. Anything beyond that treads the line of NLF.

 

[Mommyleona]

Only because Frisk broke the game rules.

sans when more than 1 straightforward attack:

 

[VoidGoji]

Even if it breaks thr rules, his IA should have activated, otherwise its "Limited Instinctive Action (only works in turn-based combat)"

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Sans actually won, ain't no way (as expected). and like usual the sans matchup has 6+ pages (also as expected)
thanks you everyone for participating.
This brings warmth to my cold heart

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Another UT Loss as hit Makima's page (this matchup was added)
Makima has lost in general. The world is healing
So long as I have an account on this site, The (respectful) agenda pushing shall be done and the (respectful) Makima hating shall continue

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Allat just for Sans to get no diffed by Muzan's battle spirit

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Allat just for Sans to get no diffed by Muzan's battle spirit

Instinctive action diff, trust

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Instinctive action diff, trust

Read what every single Hashira has on their profile btw

 

[Arkansalter2]

Allat just for Sans to incon to John Combat.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Read what every single Hashira has on their profile btw

IDC what they got, i'm lying for agenda (I don't even care about sans, high key. much rather glaze my goat Frisk)