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Metal Gear Discussion Thread

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DeathNoodles said:
Mercer's Mid-High Regeneration takes hours, but that only occurs after the incineration from the nuclear fireball, and even then he regenerates in the same night (so, much less than 24-hour timeframe). Has Metal Gear 4 Raiden ever showcased to reduce a whole living character down to ashes/dusts, smoke, vapour or plasma (including or not including High-Frequency Blades like Murasama)?
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They're superheated and can reduce CNT that can withstand heat that vaporizes concrete to glowing molten so uh, yeah probably? Unless they have something like 10k kelvin heat res, every HF attacks also superheats the target, actual 1000 degree knife bullshit but worse.

Though he was a huge distance away from the nuke, he wasn't taking the level of heat HF blades put out (at least on par with plasma) given heat drops extremely quickly in a nuke.
DeathNoodles said:
Being able to theoretically cut at the atomic/quantum scale on paper is one thing, but to be able to do it in practice is a whole different beast (also doesn't help that there was no on-screen feat of Raiden ever doing that even for MGR if I recall correctly, but I might be wrong.
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You are wrong, there is no "in theory", that's how HF blades work, every cut he does is shrinking electron clouds and severing things at an atomic scale.

Literally every time he cuts someone the cut is acting at that scale.
DeathNoodles said:
If I am wrong, please clarify and show me on-screen feats that says otherwise), and that isn't even taking into consideration of factors like whether it's within
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Dude, the actual profile. If one more goon asks me to show something that's on a profile this week I'm going to become the real Big Boss.
DeathNoodles said:
Raiden's character to persist for that long for a regenerating-type enemy,
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Raiden shreds people who don't regen to tens of thousands of ribbons in scripted sequences, and you think he wouldn't go the extra mile for someone that would actually require it?
DeathNoodles said:
or if he actually has the stamina to go on long enough to do that without needing to take a rest.
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Near limitless stamina at MFTL+ speed dog. Actual infinite stamina with wig.
To be fair, this goes out the window in speed equal, but if we're asking if he can technically do it, the answer is yes.

DeathNoodles said:
Also, Mercer's Low-High Regeneration takes seconds (this also takes the James Heller's multiple arm-rippings to wear down Mercer's regeneration into consideration by the way, and even then Mercer was shown to subtle regenerate a bit after the end of the multiple arm-rippings),
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That's nothing though?
DeathNoodles said:
and he can regenerate from as little as a mere puddle within mere seconds, since another Infected entity that is a duplicate of him can regenerate at a similar timeframe (without needing to use biomass to bolster regeneration by the way).
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Why are you yapping about Prototype when the question was if Raiden could overcome regen overtime? That's a general question, Alex or whoever doesn't matter.
DeathNoodles said:
So, unless Raiden can reduce a whole living character down to ashes/dusts, smoke, vapour or plasma, Low-High Regeneration is probably already enough against Metal Gear 4 Raiden.
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Given he has several thousand degree heat bombs, but ignoring that, why tf are you yapping that? That's for the match itself, not a general question?

Anyway, doing simplified math (assuming the body mass is 70000cm3 and a perfect cube for simplification), and assuming 192cm Raiden, 113cm HF blade, 180 degree slash, and 3mm blade thickness, we basically get a "cut sheet" of 1698.50cm2 per slash with a volume of 509.55cm3.
Using dust size as a benchmark, we want to know how long it would take him to reduce that 70000cm3 cube to 10um sized chunks. The answer is 46.99 binary split layers, a total of 3.27 nanoseconds, but, obviously, that's assuming he can cut every piece he already cut again, his blade while it can cut chunks, and then cut chunks again and he has AI slop even telling him the perfect angles to cut at (this is actually important, without this, the formula would become way to random to properly calc, taking anywhere from 1 second to 2 hours), eventually there will come a time when his sword physically cannot intersect every piece to halve them again tho, assuming perfect angle slashes we hit a cap at around 8k pieces / slash, from there, he's gonna have to like, pick and chose, we get shit like 1.4357x10^10hz swinging (based on Ripper Mode speed and 180 slashes with the aforementioned blade geometry at funny EMP calc values), and using the intersect cap, it would only take him 1.14 seconds to reduce a goon to dust.

If we assume NOTHING intersects btw, like he has to cut each piece one slash at a time (literally not a thing, even in game there's a slash counter that goes up when you cut dudes and you very much can cut numerous chunks at the same time to exponential it upwards), it'd take like 1-2h maximum at his velocity, which, is definitely a long time, but that's extreme impossible worse case scenario that isn't even true.

Which is to say, that in speed unequal, his ass can dust a dude in a lil over a second, (to puddle them would take only nanoseconds btw).

Though, to be fair, that only works in speed equal and only works because his sword shrinks electron clouds and can cut down past 10um scale, speed equal 10x speed gap wouldn't be enough to do that, but speed equal is for chumps :sleep:
 
Chariot190 said:
They're superheated and can reduce CNT that can withstand heat that vaporizes concrete to glowing molten so uh, yeah probably? Unless they have something like 10k kelvin heat res, every HF attacks also superheats the target, actual 1000 degree knife bullshit but worse.


Though he was a huge distance away from the nuke, he wasn't taking the level of heat HF blades put out (at least on par with plasma) given heat drops extremely quickly in a nuke.
Click to expand...
Mercer has resistance to thermobaric explosions, with thermobaric weapons having temperatures reaching upwards to as high as 2,500 degrees Celsius at minimum. And even then, that resistance to thermobaric weapons he was scaling to was a feat that was outright tanked by a lesser Infected than he is, if I recall correctly.

If it was actually 10k Kelvin or over 9700 degrees Celsius though, then I guess the heat resistance falls a bit short.
Chariot190 said:
You are wrong, there is no "in theory", that's how HF blades work, every cut he does is shrinking electron clouds and severing things at an atomic scale.
Click to expand...
Considering the objects being sliced through by HF blades are intact and aren't disintegrated completely, that doesn't prove that the entire objects and living beings suffer from Deconstruction in one single attack. It "severs atoms" in a way that circumvents durability, but it doesn't severe all the atoms in a target's body to cause Deconsturction.
Chariot190 said:
Literally every time he cuts someone the cut is acting at that scale.
Click to expand...
That's not Deconstruction, since those objects and people being sliced are still around, which means Regeneration will still take effect under a speed equalised matchup. It would be another story if it was a non-speed equal matchup, sure, but only speed equal was taken into account by this Raiden vs Mercer topic anyways.
Chariot190 said:
Dude, the actual profile. If one more goon asks me to show something that's on a profile this week I'm going to become the real Big Boss.
Click to expand...
Yes, I saw it, and that does not mean that the sword itself causes Deconstruction. Glorified Durability Negation is still just Durability Negation in the end, continuous cutting being able to reduce a target into atoms or subatomic particles does not mean Raiden has on-screen feats of doing that, since I don't recall him ever doing such continuous slashes to cut the entirety of someone into individual atoms or subatomic/elementary particles. For it to be able to do so, feats or scans must be shown that has Raiden actually done so, or what you said is only theoreticals that isn't supported by on-screen showings if him actually doing that in practice.
Chariot190 said:
Raiden shreds people who don't regen to tens of thousands of ribbons in scripted sequences, and you think he wouldn't go the extra mile for someone that would actually require it?
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I mean, he still has never been shown to slice and dice the same body over and over again. And just because Raiden can continue, doesn't mean he won't eventually run out of stamina, especially if we're talking about Pre-Custom Cyborg Body Raiden, which does not have Ripper mode to give him infinite Fuel Cell energy to slice and dice as much as he wants under a speed equalised matchup.
Chariot190 said:
Near limitless stamina at MFTL+ speed dog. Actual infinite stamina with wig.
To be fair, this goes out the window in speed equal, but if we're asking if he can technically do it, the answer is yes.
Click to expand...
Not within Raiden's Standard Equipment in his profile, so the wig can't even be used in an actual Versus matchup.
Chariot190 said:
That's nothing though?
Click to expand...
That's just to prove that Mercer's regeneration won't stop. It may "slow down", but it won't stop unless he's completely destroyed or gets absorbed by assimilation abilities similar to his.

But if the topic you're referring to was never supposed to be about Alex Mercer in the first place, and it was only supposed to be the general topic of Regeneration, then you can ignore anything I said about Mercer in this thread for now I guess. XD
Chariot190 said:
Why are you yapping about Prototype when the question was if Raiden could overcome regen overtime? That's a general question, Alex or whoever doesn't matter.
Click to expand...
Mostly against the user who made the matchup of Raiden vs Alex Mercer in another thread, so I thought I might as well address what a matchup of Raiden vs Alex Mercer would actually be like if it was Pre-Custom Cyborg Body Raiden.

But, if it was supposed to just be regeneration in general, then whatever,
Chariot190 said:
Given he has several thousand degree heat bombs, but ignoring that, why tf are you yapping that? That's for the match itself, not a general question?
Click to expand...
Also was mostly to address what the other user brought up as I've mentioned above, so you can ignore that if it was not supposed to be about Alex Mercer anyways.
Chariot190 said:
Anyway, doing simplified math (assuming the body mass is 70000cm3 and a perfect cube for simplification), and assuming 192cm Raiden, 113cm HF blade, 180 degree slash, and 3mm blade thickness, we basically get a "cut sheet" of 1698.50cm2 per slash with a volume of 509.55cm3.
Using dust size as a benchmark, we want to know how long it would take him to reduce that 70000cm3 cube to 10um sized chunks. The answer is 46.99 binary split layers, a total of 3.27 nanoseconds, but, obviously, that's assuming he can cut every piece he already cut again, his blade while it can cut chunks, and then cut chunks again and he has AI slop even telling him the perfect angles to cut at (this is actually important, without this, the formula would become way to random to properly calc, taking anywhere from 1 second to 2 hours), eventually there will come a time when his sword physically cannot intersect every piece to halve them again tho, assuming perfect angle slashes we hit a cap at around 8k pieces / slash, from there, he's gonna have to like, pick and chose, we get shit like 1.4357x10^10hz swinging (based on Ripper Mode speed and 180 slashes with the aforementioned blade geometry at funny EMP calc values), and using the intersect cap, it would only take him 1.14 seconds to reduce a goon to dust.

If we assume NOTHING intersects btw, like he has to cut each piece one slash at a time (literally not a thing, even in game there's a slash counter that goes up when you cut dudes and you very much can cut numerous chunks at the same time to exponential it upwards), it'd take like 1-2h maximum at his velocity, which, is definitely a long time, but that's extreme impossible worse case scenario that isn't even true.

Which is to say, that in speed unequal, his ass can dust a dude in a lil over a second, (to puddle them would take only nanoseconds btw).

Though, to be fair, that only works in speed equal and only works because his sword shrinks electron clouds and can cut down past 10um scale, speed equal 10x speed gap wouldn't be enough to do that, but speed equal is for chumps :sleep:
Click to expand...
Well, the matchup is with speed equal...

So, these calculations would not fly in a speed equalised matchup where Raiden only has 10x speed amps, especially if it is in one of his keys that isn't Pre-Custom Cyborg Body Raiden (that doesn't have Ripper mode to keep fighting with permanent 10x speed).

But if it was for non-speed equal stuff, then I guess it makes sense enough. XD
 
Last edited:
Telomera said:
I don't mean to rush anyone, but it's been a long time, when is MGR getting its new calcs?
Click to expand...
A month ago if we weren't forced to REDO THE REPLACEMENT CALC
Ya'll know who you are and what ya did
 
Ednaxel2 said:
The EMP one?
Click to expand...
No, that's done. But implementing the EMP calc, means gutting the rel boxer feat (the raindrops don't move down regardless so it's a fake feat but this would **** it anyway due to FTL KE). Thus, we need to get the AP calc uploaded too otherwise he won't have an AP calc to use on profile.
There is, in fact, two replacement feats, that would retain his AP and ****, might even be an upgrade.
But we had it almost done, 90% done, and then the work got deleted (shit wasn't my fault btw let that be known).
So now we gotta redo it and I don't really feel like spending 5 hours walking people through it again because that was a thing.

I might be able to salvage it tho if the scans still in chat, but I haven't checked.
 
10yearsinthejoint said:
What do you all think of this Calc

Im new btw
Click to expand...
What you're doing here is calcing the amount of energy it would take to raise a cylinder made of concrete with the area of Novomoskovsk and a height of 220 meters to its melting point. Since when do such cylinders exist in Metal Gear? And when did anyone in Metal Gear raise such a cylinder to its melting point?

I'm not even sure what feat you're trying to calc, but if it's destroying a city, you can't simulate that by calcing the energy to raise a cylinder to its melting point. That's not the same thing at all.
 
Telomera said:
What you're doing here is calcing the amount of energy it would take to raise a cylinder made of concrete with the area of Novomoskovsk and a height of 220 meters to its melting point. Since when do such cylinders exist in Metal Gear? And when did anyone in Metal Gear raise such a cylinder to its melting point?

I'm not even sure what feat you're trying to calc, but if it's destroying a city, you can't simulate that by calcing the energy to raise a cylinder to its melting point. That's not the same thing at all.
Click to expand...
Its Pyscho Mantis burning down his Home town I did a different version but I didn't know if that one was correct so I re-did it
 
Ednaxel2 said:
Nah not yet, we're still waiting on that omega CRT to come out, if it's even still being worked on
Click to expand...
Uhm, was gonna do a MGR one this month (being september) just to update the profiles with the new MGR calcs (FTL shit for MGR being part of it) and Raiden a handful of missing stuff like his suits and some equipment.

The omega CRT is in limbo because I can't emulate MGS4 to get footage for shit and Konami has that shit locked behind ******* bars, and MGS4 is super ******* important for the CRT.
 
Chariot190 said:
Uhm, was gonna do a MGR one this month (being september) just to update the profiles with the new MGR calcs (FTL shit for MGR being part of it) and Raiden a handful of missing stuff like his suits and some equipment.
Click to expand...
Oh cool
Chariot190 said:
The omega CRT is in limbo because I can't emulate MGS4 to get footage for shit and Konami has that shit locked behind ******* bars, and MGS4 is super ******* important for the CRT.
Click to expand...
Honestly I’d just wait until another remaster collection or smth comes out, emulating the game seems impossible currently
 
Ednaxel2 said:
Oh cool

Honestly I’d just wait until another remaster collection or smth comes out, emulating the game seems impossible currently
Click to expand...
That's what I'm doing, which means the big CRT could still be years off because idk wtf Konami is doing.
PS3 emu sucks and some of the shit for 4 needs stable frame rate for calcs involving speed so it isn't even a option.
 
Whenever we get around to doing this verse-wide CRT (this lifetime hopefully) are we going to be using feats from the Delta version of Snake Eater or are we sticking with the original? I'm mainly talking about stuff like the Ocelot RPG feat that is a lot weaker in Delta.
 
Lacku said:
Whenever we get around to doing this verse-wide CRT (this lifetime hopefully) are we going to be using feats from the Delta version of Snake Eater or are we sticking with the original? I'm mainly talking about stuff like the Ocelot RPG feat that is a lot weaker in Delta.
Click to expand...
Og it looks like.
 
Is it okay to play Metal Gear Rising without having played the other Metal Gear games? Will I get lost in the story and lore?
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Is it okay to play Metal Gear Rising without having played the other Metal Gear games? Will I get lost in the story and lore?
Click to expand...
A bit. Like Patriots get mentioned, and you're not gonna know wtf Raiden yaps about half the time, why he acts like he does, etc. Like you can get the basic story but you'd be missing some important context.

It'd be like watching the Cell Saga without knowing **** all about the Red Ribbon Army or anything about Gohan. Like you can trace the story but the context for everything is lost.
 
Chariot190 said:
A bit. Like Patriots get mentioned, and you're not gonna know wtf Raiden yaps about half the time, why he acts like he does, etc. Like you can get the basic story but you'd be missing some important context.

It'd be like watching the Cell Saga without knowing **** all about the Red Ribbon Army or anything about Gohan. Like you can trace the story but the context for everything is lost.
Click to expand...
The first games are better anyway.
 
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