Wonder_of_Fantasy
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Count Dooku vs. Dracule Mihawk
- Thread starter Wonder_of_Fantasy
- Start date
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Mihawk skillstomps so ******* hard, like jesus
Not only does he have enough heat resistance for both lightsabers and force lightning to be useless, but he also outranges with actual attacks and Dooku can't even do shit about it besides hoping Force Choke on a guy who can see the future better than he can works out.
Not only does he have enough heat resistance for both lightsabers and force lightning to be useless, but he also outranges with actual attacks and Dooku can't even do shit about it besides hoping Force Choke on a guy who can see the future better than he can works out.
Wonder_of_Fantasy
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- #3
Uhhh. I feel like, skill is the most moot thing you could probably argue in this instance. They're both considered the best Swordsmen in their verses. And Dooku has the AP advantage from the onset. Though I will admit, I'm not sure how far Haki Amps will go for Mihawk to close the gap. I can see something like that happening, maybe.
I don't know where this is from. Mihawk doesn't have Heat Resistance on his page or Heat Resistance feats to my knowledge. Is this from the Haki Page or something else entirely?
Legends Dooku outranges him with Force TK. And he even outranges Mihawk's air slashes with this going off of range statistics between characters.
And let's be real Force Choke is not his only option as far as ranged force stuff goes.
Wonder_of_Fantasy
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Also, on the point about Precog, Legends Jedi do actually have combat applicable precog neg, going off of what was discussed in the Anakin v. Shanks thread.
Kazuma_kuwabara
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Mihawk can't skillstomp, he upscales silly
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Also, the profiles for both Legends and Disney canon is out of date.
Wonder_of_Fantasy
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No, Dooku is not the best Swordsman in Star Wars, he's not even top 5, espeically in Legends. Literally a basic cursory look at SW skill feats compared to OP skill feats tells you there's not a competition here, Mihawk is the better duelist by a few light years. It takes Warhammer Fantasy-tier skill feats to make OP lose a skill debate.
Like, Revan is certainly better, Anakin canonically beat his ass, Yoda/Palpatine are certainly better, and then we get some other individuals like Darth Marr whom generally beat the ass of anyone not 4-B.
It is applicable, it's just NOT better than OP's precog.
Everyone worth their salt has lightning-rated Heat resistance in OP, Mihawk being one of them. Haki also is much better, and Mihawk uses it constantly.
Dooku also tends to massively prefer melee combat, and needs to make a gesture to land TK anyways. Mihawk passively sees the future better than Dooku does.
It basically is, because Dooku literally never uses the force for anything but force choke, force lightning, and some random TK stuff.
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Meanwhile he defeated Obi Wan and AOTC Anakin, but yeah, Dooku is skilled in his lightsaber skills.
That part I ain’t denying there, but other than that, this thread should been closed anyway.
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Yeah, Attack of the Clones Anakin. When he was a ******* Padawan.
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Didn't Legends lightsabers just get a heat temperature upgrade accepted?
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Thread 'Minor Star Wars Upgrades/Additions (Legends/Canon)'
https://vsbattles.com/threads/minor-star-wars-upgrades-additions-legends-canon.179340/
Yep
Wonder_of_Fantasy
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Yeah you're definitely right when you put it like that. I'm gonna blame myself and canon for hyping him up lol.
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cool, lightsabers work here then
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Obi Wan is also a skilled duelist in his own right, but AOTC and Revenge of the Sith done him dirty like that.
At least, he gets a W against the menace that is General Grevious (it ended without his lightsaber. Using a blaster instead though).
Also upon double checking, I find a old respect thread on Legends Dooku.
Apparently he is one of the few duelists able to defeat Mace Windu in terms of Lightsaber skills.
How Powerful is Dooku? | Dooku Respect Thread (2020)
MINI RESPECT THREAD: DOOKU This is my first entry in a series of bite-sized respect threads. The goal is to create blogs that are easy and quick to read, emphas
www.suspectinsightforums.com
Now, if only we can get this on Dooku’s profile for Legends
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it's dead
Catbowtie
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A dead imgur link?
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Fixed.
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I said that the lightsaber worked, not that Mihawk had no counters to it lol
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“Count Dooku was probably the greatest swordsman at the Jedi Temple.
(Star Wars The Official Figurine Collection #12)
He was a remarkable teacher and, of all those in the Temple, arguably the most skilled with a lightsaber.
(Star Wars The Official Figurine Collection #12)
His progress was exceptional, and many thought he was the deadliest of all the Jedi in combat.
(Star Wars The Official Figurine Collection #12)
---
In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents ever overcame him in battle. One was Master Yoda, who some said was the Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was former Master Dooku, whose own fighting style was archaic, yet stunningly effective.
(Star Wars Power of the Jedi Sourcebook)
In his day, Mace was one of the best lightsaber fighters of the Jedi order. It was said only two opponents ever bested him: Yoda and Dooku.
(Official Star Wars Website Databanks: Mace Windu)
In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents have ever overcome Master Windu in battle. One was Master Yoda himself, whom some say is the Jedi Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was Master Dooku.
(Star Wars Miniatures Revenge of the Sith Preview #1: Mace Windu, Jedi Master)
(Star Wars The Official Figurine Collection #12)
He was a remarkable teacher and, of all those in the Temple, arguably the most skilled with a lightsaber.
(Star Wars The Official Figurine Collection #12)
His progress was exceptional, and many thought he was the deadliest of all the Jedi in combat.
(Star Wars The Official Figurine Collection #12)
---
In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents ever overcame him in battle. One was Master Yoda, who some said was the Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was former Master Dooku, whose own fighting style was archaic, yet stunningly effective.
(Star Wars Power of the Jedi Sourcebook)
In his day, Mace was one of the best lightsaber fighters of the Jedi order. It was said only two opponents ever bested him: Yoda and Dooku.
(Official Star Wars Website Databanks: Mace Windu)
In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents have ever overcome Master Windu in battle. One was Master Yoda himself, whom some say is the Jedi Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was Master Dooku.
(Star Wars Miniatures Revenge of the Sith Preview #1: Mace Windu, Jedi Master)
His skills with his purple-bladed lightsaber were the stuff of legend, and it was said that he could be defeated in combat only by Master Yoda and the great swordsman Count Dooku.
(Star Wars The Official Figurine Collection #33)
It is said that only his one-time friend Dooku and the venerable Grand Master Yoda could outspar Mace Windu.
(Star Wars The Clone Wars: Lightsaber Duels Prima Official Game Guide)
---
“You were never able to defeat me at the Jedi Temple, and you won’t defeat me now.”
(Dooku to Mace Windu -- Star Wars: The Clone Wars Lightsaber Duels)”
(Star Wars The Official Figurine Collection #33)
It is said that only his one-time friend Dooku and the venerable Grand Master Yoda could outspar Mace Windu.
(Star Wars The Clone Wars: Lightsaber Duels Prima Official Game Guide)
---
“You were never able to defeat me at the Jedi Temple, and you won’t defeat me now.”
(Dooku to Mace Windu -- Star Wars: The Clone Wars Lightsaber Duels)”
TLDR he is stated to been arguably the most skilled in all of the Jedi’s history in terms of lightsaber skills.
there with him besting Mace Windu and is advanced in all seven forms of lightsaber combat styles IIRC.
Also being able to fought with Yoda alone helped as well.
Speaking of the later fight with a knocked out Kenobi in Revenge of the Sith, Anakin did have to tap deeper into the Dark Side of the Force in order to overwhelm him as well.
“As the battle proceeds, OBI-WAN and COUNT DOOKU are tired. ANAKIN is stronger as he becomes angry. ANAKIN continues to drive the attack on DOOKU. COUNT DOOKU throws OBI-WAN back using the Force.”
From ROTS Script it seems
Also some more details in the ROTS novel and some other sources just to spice up the fight.
---
“Skywalker's Shien ready-stance had been a ruse, as had his Ataro gymnastics; the boy was a Djem So stylist, and as fine a one as Dooku had ever seen. His own elegant Makashi simply did not generate the kinetic power to meet Djem So head-to-head. Especially not while also defending against a second attacker.
(Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith adult novelization)
Count Dooku’s calm and measured moves make him a master of Makashi. However, the form lacks great power and Dooku meets his match against the force of Anakin Skywalker’s style.
(Star Wars Mysteries of the Jedi)“
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Many thought he was, but he sorta lacks some feats to compare to other individuals. You have to remember, 1000 years is sorta the limit to accurate retelling of history in this verse, so, say, Reven would probably beat him in skill. And considering how fast Dooku went from confident to backpedaling against Yoda, the gremlin has him beat too.
Mace isn't a sword saint, he's just really fast and hits really hard, though he has some damn good skill as well.
being able to not get stomped by Yoda is a feat yeah, but Yoda isn't doesn't even have the best feats without using the force for AoE.
Drawing on Marr again, the guy's a deterrent superior to a planetary shield in defense of a planet. Dooku straight up can't do that lmfao
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Remember when Revan solo'd an entire army mostly by himself while invading the Star Forge to kick Malak's ass, an army that included cracked out Battle Droids, heavily armed soldiers and actual full on Sith before kicking Malak's teeth in despite him constantly healing and amping himself by draining the captured Jedi he had? Yeah, Dooku ain't doing that kind of shit.
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Yeah, probably so as the Old Republic Era jedi has knowledge and been in war with the Sith compared to Post Ruusan Reformation Jedi.
I also have to double check the lightsaber combats forms as they are developed from sparring and fighting for thousands of years after all.
The Jedi Order has experience in the lightsaber combats along with the Sith.
So they are definitely skilled as hell there.
Catbowtie
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Wasn't there a whole game where Revan was on King Von timing or was that...Oh I'm thinking of Starlord
XSOULOFCINDERX
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XSOULOFCINDERX
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Uhhhh, excuse me? Pretty sure that never happened in any media ever.
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I'm voting for Dooku, the temperature of his lightsaber means that any clash will just result in Mihawk's sword being cut in half and likely his body too.
Counter-arguments like "Mihawk keeps his distance and spams ranged attacks" or that "he only attacks with barriers" are plausible in theory, but the problem is that Mihawk simply does not fight like that in canon, his duel with Vista for example was nothing but back and forth physical clashes.
Counter-arguments like "Mihawk keeps his distance and spams ranged attacks" or that "he only attacks with barriers" are plausible in theory, but the problem is that Mihawk simply does not fight like that in canon, his duel with Vista for example was nothing but back and forth physical clashes.
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Mihawk has elite level observation Haki. Fighters at a high level use Buso Emission constantly in battle. It doesn't take a genius to know to use it, and especially not one of Mihawk's caliber. Dooku simply gets outclassed in close combat. He gets taken down by a swift Goken dura neg slice.
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Mihawk's observation haki is only accepted as intermediate on his profile.
The issue isn't Mihawk's ability to use buso emission, the issue is that he doesn't actually do so in character, as I mentioned, his duel with Vista was nothing but sword-to-sword physical clashes, which would be fatal against Dooku.
Catbowtie
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That doesn't disprove what I said?
Again, Mihawk has precog, and I just explained to you how it is in character, which you flatout ignored.
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It does because intermediate and elite are not synonymous, and the profile lists the former.
Mihawk's level of observation haki entails predicting attacks through intent, he does not see the future.
You tried to generalize buso emission as something all strong characters constantly use, but that’s not only false, it’s also unnecessary to rely on such generalizations when Mihawk has multiple combat showings which disprove it.
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Naming fallacy. Intermediate is the name for anything below advanced. Within the intermediate stage there are several tiers of mastery to where one user can pregoc-stomp another while both actively using said Haki. Mihawk himself can contend with the most advanced Kenbunshoku users in the verse (Shanks) so regardless, this point is irrelevant and does nothing for your argument.
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This is not false what are you talking about? It's a key concept in swordsmanship to use Buso Emission. Zoro was taught it before he even set out to sea, unlocked it 1000 chapters ago, and was directly trained into mastering it by Mihawk over the 2 year timeskip.
This is what a greeting between top tiers in One Piece looks like. There are many such examples. And even if you want to close your eyes and ignore the facts, it has been shown in One Piece that Buso Emission users opt to using it immediately when posed with heat that they can't handle.
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That wasn't at all a naming fallacy.
Mihawk's level of observation haki is limited to predicting attacks through intent, outside of uncommon occurrences, it cannot see the future, this is mentioned on the haki page.
This doesn't prove that top tiers and especially Mihawk constantly use buso emission in combat, at most it would prove that Mihawk is capable of it, which I never argued against.
These are also clashes between top tiers in One Piece, there is physical contact between the two in each case.
Even Zoro, who you seem to think is a prime example of swordsmen always using buso emission, clashed blades with King directly, only when King attempted to pull Zoro's swords out of his hands did Zoro actually use barrier, something he thankfully already had prior experience with, if done against Dooku, such a thing would've already been fatal for Zoro.
It's much more common for top tiers to physically touch each other with their attacks, Luffy is the exception to this rule as he needed buso emission to even damage Kaido in the first place, which is why he was using it constantly.
Regardless, Mihawk is not any of these aforementioned characters, he has combat showings where he clearly does not use buso emission constantly to fight, so relying on generalization or comparisons isn't going to work.
Luffy only realized that after Kaido's heat had burned him, heat which is hundreds to thousands of times lower than a lightsaber and Mihawk doesn't even know what a lightsaber is.
Mihawk would not get a second chance like Luffy did against Kaido, the very first time he clashes with Dooku it will at best result in Mihawk's sword being cut in two and is just as likely to cut Mihawk's body in two as well.
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Doku legends suffered hakai.
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