High School DxD Downgrade: Tier 2

[Firestorm808]

Will look at later.

 

[Endou_God_Hand]

Also should be noted that in dxd when come to pseudo space then they clearly stated that while it's come to mythological world's like heaven and hell it's never stated that they are pseudo space but dimension with their own time

Having own time

This makes sense to me. I don't think the OP quite gets some things right, so I'm inclined to disagree with it.

 

[Endou_God_Hand]

To explain, I believe that while the statements @Dragongod224 don’t make much sense separately, together they make all the difference.

A place having its own flow of time could mean time flows differently, but combined with the fact and statements that Heaven, underworld, and the human world are spatio separated, and in separate dimensions, I find it reasonable to believe it has its own time space and is therefore a universe on its own.

 

[Digital_Franz]

This makes sense to me. I don't think the OP quite gets some things right, so I'm inclined to disagree with it.

To explain, I believe that while the statements @Dragongod224 don’t make much sense separately, together they make all the difference.

A place having its own flow of time could mean time flows differently, but combined with the fact and statements that Heaven, underworld, and the human world are spatio separated, and in separate dimensions, I find it reasonable to believe it has its own time space and is therefore a universe on its own.

Having their own flow of time, though with all these scans doesn't help. It doesn't prove that these dimensions are spatio-temporally separated, since even the existence of Dimensional Gap doesn't prove that they are separated in that sense.

In fiction there are cases where a wall or some non-physical analog separates two realms. However, while such a barrier might serve to separate the realms within the cosmology of said fiction, note that the spaces are not necessarily separate universes by our standards. That is because, while the wall may make it difficult in practice, one could in theory still move from one realm to the other with just regular three dimensional movement. That means that the realms are still part of one common three dimensional space, which by our standards constitutes only one universe.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Universe
It should be noted that variations in the flow of time, such as faster or slower rates, do not necessarily indicate the existence of separate universes or space-time continuums. This phenomenon can occur within a single universe or pocket dimension, and therefore does not serve as sufficient evidence for the existence of multiple universes or space-time continuums.

And then making holes just in space and not space-time to enter other dimensions proves that they are not spatio-temporally separated.

 

[Vietthai96]

I'm just confusing, when was simply being called dimensions enough to make them universe-sized?

 

[Dragongod224]

I'm just confusing, when was simply being called dimensions enough to make them universe-sized?

No but those dimension stated to be infinite in size with their own flow of time

 

[Endou_God_Hand]

In this context, dimension and universe I think can be used interchangeably, either way from what I've gathered it's infinite in size and has its own spacetime and that's what made me reach my conclusion based on the scans.

 

[Dragongod224]

no??? where?

Bro at least see the previously scans I send than comment

 

[Robo432343]

it was called a pseudo space that immediately disqualifies it being Low 2-C

 

[Dragongod224]

it was called a pseudo space that immediately disqualifies it being Low 2-C

look like someone not seeing the scan I previously send ans still comments

 

[Robo432343]

The Underworld is like the human world - it has a land area comparable to Earth, but it doesn't have as much population as the human world. Even if you include demons, fallen angels, and other races, there still aren't that many. And since there are no seas, the land is even more vast

not even building size

 

[Endou_God_Hand]

Is there not a heaven and hell (Underworld) for each different mythology? I feel like that's enough since we also know each Mythology is its own universe, why would these realms be part of the same universe if there's a different one for worlds you said you agree are different universes...

not even building size

That statement is a bad translation, I believe the raws are just comparing Underworld to the Human Realm in size, not really "Earth".

 

[Robo432343]

you can't just say its a bad translation and proceed to not give me the right translation
i just checked again and it still compares it to the earth in terms of size lol

 

[Dragongod224]

you can't just say its a bad translation and proceed to not give me the right translation
i just checked again and it still compares it to the earth in terms of size lol

This is just a planet they live compare to earth planet and this also clear in previous OP

and you forget that hell has 7 different layer to

 

[Dragongod224]

I disagree with this thread

 

[Endou_God_Hand]

you can't just say its a bad translation and proceed to not give me the right translation
i just checked again and it still compares it to the earth in terms of size lol

My bad, I thought people were already looking at the linked cosmology page. But the statement I'm talking about is...
冥界は⼈間界 ──地球と同程度の⾯積があるけれど, ⼈間界ほど⼈⼝はないわ.
⼈間界 particularly stands out, it's ironically a bit of a pun. ⼈ is nin which is used for humans after going with, 間界 which is meaning "genkai" which is a limit/boundary but in this context (and especially that last kanji) just means the "Human Realm / World / "Boundary".
Earth (地球) and "Human Realm" (⼈間界) are different here. The comparison made is not about the size of Underworld as a whole, but of its populations, as it wouldn't make sense for the whole Underworld to be just the size of earth given the fact they contain other planets and stars.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Bro at least see the previously scans I send than comment

Don't wanna be that guy but "so vast that it is said you can't tell where the end is" isn't remotely enough proof for infinite size.

Second one seems more like an act of time manipulation rather than being a separate spatio-temporal universe. They even said the Maous had to adjust it to match the human world which makes it seem even more that it is an artificial/hax thing rather than a naturally occurring thing.

I would be willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the third one. DMC uses something similar but the "endless darkness" is actually talking about the realm itself being just that big not as a quality of it being "dark", meanwhile here it seems the realm is just in eternal darkness or something, hence why they make mention of how devils can see in the dark.

 

[SweetDao]

Don't wanna be that guy but "so vast that it is said you can't tell where the end is" isn't remotely enough proof for infinite size.

I wanted to be that guy, but you beat me to it, damn...

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I wanted to be that guy, but you beat me to it, damn...

You'll get your chance, just wait for it :v

 

[Dragongod224]

Don't wanna be that guy but "so vast that it is said you can't tell where the end is" isn't remotely enough proof for infinite size.

Firstly statement are came from being who has more advanced technology available to create UFO that can take you to outer space and other technological advance items

Second one seems more like an act of time manipulation rather than being a separate spatio-temporal universe. They even said the Maous had to adjust it to match the human world which makes it seem even more that it is an artificial/hax thing rather than a naturally occurring thing.

There is another thing you forget that it's compared to human realm with their own flow of time

Also in dxd pseudo space are differently stated such as dimension created by dimension lost and dimension like inner Kyoto where yokai live they are direct listed that they are pseudo space when it's come to mythological world's like hell and heaven are never stated to be pseudo space

I would be willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the third one. DMC uses something similar but the "endless darkness" is actually talking about the realm itself being just that big not as a quality of it being "dark", meanwhile here it seems the realm is just in eternal darkness or something, hence why they make mention of how devils can see in the dark.

This haven used to observe stars and stars are so far that it's light can't reach you

 

[Endou_God_Hand]

I feel like arguing about dimensions or whatever you’re doing is pointless @Dragongod224…

We can just use the fact there’s a Heaven and hell in each mythos to substantiate the fact that they aren’t all in one world…

 

[Vietthai96]

Seriously, Human World is the Earth, the difference is only that Human World refering to the world where human live and the Earth is planet as a whole, Earth is the Human World, cause it is where human live, the whole paragraph literally compare the population of both world, and human live only on planet Earth, unless there are human living on other planets, then that gonna be something but well, the series didn't have that thing. Idk where the entire Human World mean the entire universe by default came from. Underworld have a fake moon iirc to accommondate reincarnated devils who was once human, but it is only applicable for Devil territory only, because Underworld crammed with multiple section, from place where Devil live, to Fallen Angel, and then Hell where God of Hell from each myth station there in different place

 

[Endou_God_Hand]

Seriously, Human World is the Earth, the difference is only that Human World refering to the world where human live and the Earth is planet as a whole, Earth is the Human World, cause it is where human live, the whole paragraph literally compare the population of both world, and human live only on planet Earth, unless there are human living on other planets, then that gonna be something but well, the series didn't have that thing. Idk where the entire Human World mean the entire universe by default came form

The Kanji is very particular, Human Realm and Underworld are different from earth and context tells us the Underworld, as a whole, being the size of just Earth, is unreasonable.

Additionally, we know the human world is it’s own universe, it would be unreasonable to say it’s just Earth.

Underworld have a fake moon iirc to accommondate reincarnated devils who was once human, but it is only applicable for Devil territory only, because Underworld crammed with multiple section, from place where Devil live, to Fallen Angel, and then Hell where God of Hell from each myth station there in different place

This is irrelevant.

 

[Robo432343]

it was stated to be comparable to earth in size

we cant just ignore that statement

 

[Digital_Franz]

I'm just confusing, when was simply being called dimensions enough to make them universe-sized?

Unfortunately, never. What saves them from the Tier 4 I originally planned is that I have evidence that the world as a whole is a universe.

No but those dimension stated to be infinite in size with their own flow of time

Never outright stated "infinite", the Third Heaven is vast but is a space just all white, the fact of not seeing an end does not mean that the end does not exist.

In this context, dimension and universe

Nah.

I think can be used interchangeably, either way from what I've gathered it's infinite in size and has its own spacetime and that's what made me reach my conclusion based on the scans.

You think~it's fine. From what you've gathered~well if it's just the same scans they're already cooked. And can you prove they have their own space-time? Because all you're doing is claiming without supporting evidence.

 

[Endou_God_Hand]

Nah.

Speak plainly and appropriately or I will not humor discussion with you.

You think~it's fine. From what you've gathered~well if it's just the same scans they're already cooked. And can you prove they have their own space-time? Because all you're doing is claiming without supporting evidence.

Your point was that Heaven and Hell are part of the same universe right? But you said the mythological worlds are their own universes in the OP. We know there’s a Heaven and hell for each mythos, that alone proves that they aren’t all part of one universe.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Is there not a heaven and hell (Underworld) for each different mythology?

And? Doesn't help in any way.

I feel like that's enough since we also know each Mythology is its own universe, why would these realms be part of the same universe if there's a different one for worlds you said you agree are different universes...

You feel like? You first have to prove that these mythology dimensions are other spatiotemporally separated universes and not just simple dimensions of the same physical universe. Maybe you think that because they are part of the same physical universe then they are not physically separate? Nah they are separated like rooms in a house with Dimensional Gap being like walls, well, it is the dimensional wall after all.

That statement is a bad translation, I believe the raws are just comparing Underworld to the Human Realm in size, not really "Earth".

My bad, I thought people were already looking at the linked cosmology page. But the statement I'm talking about is...
冥界は⼈間界 ──地球と同程度の⾯積があるけれど, ⼈間界ほど⼈⼝はないわ.
⼈間界 particularly stands out, it's ironically a bit of a pun. ⼈ is nin which is used for humans after going with, 間界 which is meaning "genkai" which is a limit/boundary but in this context (and especially that last kanji) just means the "Human Realm / World / "Boundary".
Earth (地球) and "Human Realm" (⼈間界) are different here. The comparison made is not about the size of Underworld as a whole, but of its populations, as it wouldn't make sense for the whole Underworld to be just the size of earth given the fact they contain other planets and stars.

Nah VSBW Translation Helpers>>>>You. The last case I know of ended very badly. Here you go.

 

[Endou_God_Hand]

Nah VSBW Translation Helpers>>>>You. The last case I know of ended very badly. Here you go.

I’ve passed the JLPT N2 and have certification for that. I won’t speak on these “Translation Helpers” but I know my own skill.
I would appreciate if you spoke appropriately and were not rude, if you don’t I will simply ignore you.

You feel like? You first have to prove that these mythology dimensions are other spatiotemporally separated universes and not just simple dimensions of the same physical universe. Maybe you think that because they are part of the same physical universe then they are not physically separate? Nah they are separated like rooms in a house with Dimensional Gap being like walls, well, it is the dimensional wall after all.

So actually myth realms are Universes. Fair enough.

These were your words, not mine.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Firstly statement are came from being who has more advanced technology available to create UFO that can take you to outer space and other technological advance items

Doesn't help.

There is another thing you forget that it's compared to human realm with their own flow of time

As I've been saying since, having "your own flow of time" is close to not even being a justification for anything, it doesn't really help here.

Also in dxd pseudo space are differently stated such as dimension created by dimension lost and dimension like inner Kyoto where yokai live they are direct listed that they are pseudo space when it's come to mythological world's like hell and heaven are never stated to be pseudo space

Doesn't really help too.

This haven used to observe stars and stars are so far that it's light can't reach you

You don't need to be universe-sized or infinite to observe stars. Like, how do we observe stars IRL?

 

[Digital_Franz]

Seriously, Human World is the Earth, the difference is only that Human World refering to the world where human live and the Earth is planet as a whole, Earth is the Human World, cause it is where human live, the whole paragraph literally compare the population of both world, and human live only on planet Earth, unless there are human living on other planets, then that gonna be something but well, the series didn't have that thing. Idk where the entire Human World mean the entire universe by default came from. Underworld have a fake moon iirc to accommondate reincarnated devils who was once human, but it is only applicable for Devil territory only, because Underworld crammed with multiple section, from place where Devil live, to Fallen Angel, and then Hell where God of Hell from each myth station there in different place

They're on their way.

I feel like arguing about dimensions or whatever you’re doing is pointless @Dragongod224…

We can just use the fact there’s a Heaven and hell in each mythos to substantiate the fact that they aren’t all in one world…

The Kanji is very particular, Human Realm and Underworld are different from earth and context tells us the Underworld, as a whole, being the size of just Earth, is unreasonable.

Additionally, we know the human world is it’s own universe, it would be unreasonable to say it’s just Earth.

"It's own universe" but just speaking, never dropping a scan. Well I'm used with you guys.

This is irrelevant.

Relevant. No one has addressed the problem of fake celestial bodies.

Speak plainly and appropriately or I will not humor discussion with you.

Oh~

Your point was that Heaven and Hell are part of the same universe right? But you said the mythological worlds are their own universes in the OP. We know there’s a Heaven and hell for each mythos, that alone proves that they aren’t all part of one universe.

That all these dimensions are part of the same physical universe. The OP:

So all in all, these realms are part of the same universe.

I’ve passed the JLPT N2 and have certification for that. I won’t speak on these “Translation Helpers” but I know my own skill.

I don't see what specifically compels me to believe this? Like, there have been people here who have claimed that they can translate and all just to be cooked later.

I would appreciate if you spoke appropriately and were not rude, if you don’t I will simply ignore you.

DxD guys seeing rudeness everywhere. That's what makes it hard to debate you guys.

These were your words, not mine.

The beginning and the end~

 

[3Pencil]

I never liked tier 2 dxd since it doesn't make sense
Being so vast that you can't see an end doesn't qualify for infinite unless stated, and it being comparable to the size of the human realms wouldn't get ignored

 

[3Pencil]

This is irrelevant.

How is this irrelevant?

 

[Vietthai96]

The Kanji is very particular, Human Realm and Underworld are different from earth and context tells us the Underworld, as a whole, being the size of just Earth, is unreasonable.

What, the kanji is particular, of course, it is like saying the obvious that the term Human World and Underworld using particular alphabet. You need to provide context and proof about the size of the suppose Human World, not what seem reasonable to you personally, if you want to convince people.....

 

[BlackeJan]

Alright yall there’s no point in continuously arguing. We need staff and that’s about it and only 2 or 3 commented so far

 

[Dragongod224]

I have a one question

You saying that dimensional gap exist outside of observe universe and by reaching end of the universe you can travel through endless void enter other dimension that what you saying..?

And because of that mythology world's are the part of same universe even the dimensions gap is part of same universe since it's exist outside of the observer universe that what you saying..?


And all other dimension are pocket dimension even the timelines and parallel world's since they separated by dimensional wall?

And entire cosmology is low-2C?

 

[Digital_Franz]

I have a one question

You saying that dimensional gap exist outside of observe universe and by reaching end of the universe you can travel through endless void enter other dimension that what you saying..?

And because of that mythology world's are the part of same universe even the dimensions gap is part of same universe since it's exist outside of the observer universe that what you saying..?

What I'm saying is that dimensions are indeed separated by the Dimensional Gap, but in a sense that regular 3D movement can access them. They are part of the same physical universe in the same sense that all the rooms in a house are part of a single space and are just separated by walls.

And all other dimension are pocket dimension even the timelines and parallel world's since they separated by dimensional wall?

Dimensions, pockets dimensions and why not yeah but not worlds and timelines since each world has its own Dimensional Gap, so the Dimensional Gap is not what separates worlds (by world I mean entire worlds like DxD, ExE, FxF, etc.).

And entire cosmology is low-2C?

Nah never said that. It remains 2-C, only the worlds are Low 2-C.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

and it being comparable to the size of the human realms wouldn't get ignored

That’s just the landmass of the devil/fallen angel territory. It has no bearing on the entire dimension.

Hell has layers of unknown size in general.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Anyway, it should be pretty obvious that Heaven and such are not in some different universe. At least it hasn’t been explicitly stated.

But also, Underworld has a ‘fake’ moon in the same a sense as Naruto or Dragon Ball have fake moons, in that they were artificially created by others.

We can just use the fact there’s a Heaven and hell in each mythos to substantiate the fact that they aren’t all in one world…

They are all part of Draconic Deus, so how ccan they be separate universes entirely? Do you think Reverse Kyoto is in some different universe?

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

Is this serious? How long are you going to continue with this nonsense? The human world and the mythological realms are separate space-times, they are not part of the same universe. That's been seen from the beginning, now you're just making up nonsense just to try to make DxD look weak. Stop making this stuff up and wasting time. If you don't like DxD, just admit it and stop this nonsense.

 

[BlackeJan]

Can we PLEASE get staff here