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DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

TsukasayaEmmaDCD said:
Does Simon really have a NLF? Despite showing the multiversal labyrinth feat
Click to expand...
My point was that the entire verdict was centered more around beliefs rather than facts.

Factually, Simon hasn't jumped to the levels of power Kyle is sitting at. We don't have any explicit evidence he even can go higher, since him and Anti-Spiral just plataeud and fought evenly without further adapting and surpassing even 12-D. If you said any lower-dimensional character can just jump several tiers and in cardinality because they've done it before you would probably get drowned out with people making fun of you or just denying it. For me, in VS Debates I've become accustomed to only going by what's directly shown. Using their logic who's to say Simon CAN'T just become Boundless if he wants eventually? That's my big issue. Also, 11-D to infinite-dimensional and even beyond that is just wayyyyyyyy bigger of a gap than Simon has shown to jump without relying on R>F = Outer arguments from Otoko and a CD drama that aren't even officially translated.

That's why I'm saying it.
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
My point was that the entire verdict was centered more around beliefs rather than facts.

Factually, Simon hasn't jumped to the levels of power Kyle is sitting at. We don't have any explicit evidence he even can go higher, since him and Anti-Spiral just plataeud and fought evenly without further adapting and surpassing even 12-D. If you said any lower-dimensional character can just jump several tiers and in cardinality because they've done it before you would probably get drowned out with people making fun of you or just denying it. For me, in VS Debates I've become accustomed to only going by what's directly shown. Using their logic who's to say Simon CAN'T just become Boundless if he wants eventually? That's my big issue. Also, 11-D to infinite-dimensional and even beyond that is just wayyyyyyyy bigger of a gap than Simon has shown to jump without relying on R>F = Outer arguments from Otoko and a CD drama that aren't even officially translated.

That's why I'm saying it.
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I believe what we have shown is enough to suggest he can reach up to infinite dimensionality

He cannot transcend outeversal layers however with what we showed. I do legitimately think he reaches outerversal with the Super Spiral Realm, can go infinitely higher with it as STTGL, but no suggestion he can do the same thing with outerversal layers that I think logically makes sense with his dimensional absorption
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
My point was that the entire verdict was centered more around beliefs rather than facts.

Factually, Simon hasn't jumped to the levels of power Kyle is sitting at. We don't have any explicit evidence he even can go higher, since him and Anti-Spiral just plataeud and fought evenly without further adapting and surpassing even 12-D. If you said any lower-dimensional character can just jump several tiers and in cardinality because they've done it before you would probably get drowned out with people making fun of you or just denying it. For me, in VS Debates I've become accustomed to only going by what's directly shown. Using their logic who's to say Simon CAN'T just become Boundless if he wants eventually? That's my big issue. Also, 11-D to infinite-dimensional and even beyond that is just wayyyyyyyy bigger of a gap than Simon has shown to jump without relying on R>F = Outer arguments from Otoko and a CD drama that aren't even officially translated.

That's why I'm saying it.
Click to expand...
which i guess it is a flaw of the debating community considering they basically say "yeah reactive evolution is useless"
without actually saying it
 
Dust_Collector said:
Just noticed that when they were explaining dimensional tiering during Simon's analysis, they used a render of Solaris to represent 4-D dimensions which is a cool detail.

And very funnily when they said each dimension infinitely transends the last they snuck in a render of Infinite and had him get squashed by a render of a thwomp lmao.
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I mean Thwomps make people flat as a paper after it crushes them, so what better way to illustrate dimensionality than by displaying the most famous example on the show?
 
MagdalenusTenebrosus said:
I believe what we have shown is enough to suggest he can reach up to infinite dimensionality

He cannot transcend outeversal layers however with what we showed. I do legitimately think he reaches outerversal with the Super Spiral Realm, can go infinitely higher with it as STTGL, but no suggestion he can do the same thing with outerversal layers that I think logically makes sense with his dimensional absorption
Click to expand...
And I'm just going to have to disagree.
 
MagdalenusTenebrosus said:
I believe what we have shown is enough to suggest he can reach up to infinite dimensionality

He cannot transcend outeversal layers however with what we showed. I do legitimately think he reaches outerversal with the Super Spiral Realm, can go infinitely higher with it as STTGL, but no suggestion he can do the same thing with outerversal layers that I think logically makes sense with his dimensional absorption
Click to expand...
I was about to say it's still a bit sketchy, but then my CD player just started wobbling in a suspicious way...
 
Alexander said:
which i guess it is a flaw of the debating community considering they basically say "yeah reactive evolution is useless"
without actually saying it
Click to expand...
The overwhelming majority of reactive evolution is built on narrative convenience
It's gonna take a lot to buy a character is gonna have a bigger jump in power to win a bar fight than when they reached the climax of their story and character arc
 
My only issues with the fight that stops it from being 100/100 in my eyes is 1) the lack of mentioning Ion for Kyle and directly stating Nia’s death, incredibly important for both characters and 2) the pacing of the fight is way too fast and escalates way too quickly, while they make great use of all their powers and creativity, a middle step feels missing. The fact that Spiral of Emotions is half the length of Will of a Drill shows this. This fight can easily have been a 6 minute fight and it would have benefited from more time in the oven to get more set pieces.


With that said, it’s still a 95/100 from me dawg. My third favorite episode of all time!
 
0ホルスファルコン将軍0 said:
My only issues with the fight that stops it from being 100/100 in my eyes is 1) the lack of mentioning Ion for Kyle and directly stating Nia’s death, incredibly important for both characters and 2) the pacing of the fight is way too fast and escalates way too quickly, while they make great use of all their powers and creativity, a middle step feels missing. The fact that Spiral of Emotions is half the length of Will of a Drill shows this. This fight can easily have been a 6 minute fight and it would have benefited from more time in the oven to get more set pieces.


With that said, it’s still a 95/100 from me dawg. My third favorite episode of all time!
Click to expand...
I was trying to tie this to my arguments for why jumping dimensionality is valid and I think I recognize why they might not have aside for length-shortening. The Super Spiral Realm is Simon's ticket to regenerating from higher dimensional obliteration as it stores his information in a space outside of space and dimensionality, so it suspends disbelief less to just have him jump to his SSR forms straight away.

Still could have included the forms, perhaps like:

Green Lantern Kyle vs Gurren Lagann
Green Lantern Kyle vs ARC Gurren Lagann
Green Lantern Kyle vs Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann
Ion Kyle vs Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann
Ion Kyle vs Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann
Then have Kyle go White Lantern with the Superman mech and the rest of the fight remains
 
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I just don't see the dimensional thing being a NLF. He still has a limit, that being meta layers. The principle between jumping from 3-D to 11-D through absorbing spiral energy, something that transcends time, space, and dimensions in the first place, isn't going to be magically different if you jump from 11-D to 12-D. That's still just a xℝ jump, no different from how Simon just jumped xℝ^8. It's the same principle, and one that doesn't limit how spiral energy has been stated to work already.

What would be a NLF would be to suggest because he can jump across higher dimensional levels, he can also do outerversal layers.
 
If the Dark Ages gets DLC that further amps Doomslayer (Wouldn't be unsurprising), I hope DB strikes while the iron is still hot and does KratosSlayer even if it's a bit soon.
 
ShawnFaux said:
Does Dark Ages (as it is now) give him anything new? I haven't gotten to play it yet.
Click to expand...
His mace is infinitely dense and one of his weapons tears apart reality with its shots.

Otherwise standard fare stuff. A bit more impressive gameplay visuals with his brute strength as his punches have shockwaves that goes several meters. Nothing spectacular however.
 
ZeNoviceArtist said:
I prefer Kratos vs Dante.
Click to expand...
Doomslayer's other option is to fight Tadano (not happening lol) or the Marathon Security Guard (Definitely not happening lol) or be stuck at forever island level.

KratosSlayer has a lot of great connections working for it.

Epiccheev said:
Just watched some people reacting to the death battle, and it's so insanely funny when they watch the previews without knowing anything about one of the characters.
Like, they are both so ridiculous power-wise it's unbelievable
Click to expand...
Simon vs Kyle is literally what everyone wanted Goku vs Superman to be like and I love it.
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
Also by DB standards, Simon is now the strongest non capeshit character.

Though by VSBW standards, it probably goes to either Joker or Unicron.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure Simon is straight up the strongest anime character that doesn't originate from a VN, LN, or RPG now.

Sort of fitting it's for a character who is all about punching harder, and not some more esoteric haxy character like Madoka or Medaka.
 
ShawnFaux said:
Does Dark Ages (as it is now) give him anything new? I haven't gotten to play it yet.
Click to expand...
From what I played it mostly just clarifies material we already knew from the lore like his immortality and strength. Plus some extra lore about his infinite strength and rage amplification.

I mean, it makes sense. It’s a prequel. Clearly the sequels would show a higher level of power, but it’s nice to actually see some of those feats in action.
 
I really wanna say that Kyle losing, and that now with Unicron having reality fiction transcending stuff on par if not higher than the SoG means Optimus has a better chance against Superman.

But the fact that composite Optimus has almost no 1-A scaling outside some fairly vague 1-A Matrix hax he doesn't physically scale to/or some wacky singularity scaling, on top of Superman scaling to the 6-D, which exists way above the SoG....

Yeah my boi is still cooked 😭
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
I really wanna say that Kyle losing, and that now with Unicron having reality fiction transcending stuff on par if not higher than the SoG means Optimus has a better chance against Superman.

But the fact that Optimus has almost no 1-A scaling outside some fairly vague 1-A Matrix hax he doesn't scale to/or some wacky singularity scaling, on top of Superman scaling to the 6-D, which exists way above the SoG....

Yeah my boi is still cooked 😭
Click to expand...
Ben flat out said he thought Superman > White Lantern Kyle and Simon the Digger in a Death Battle Cast back in 2024.

Infinite Frontier Superman is just something else.
 
MagdalenusTenebrosus said:
Ben flat out said he thought Superman > White Lantern Kyle and Simon the Digger in a Death Battle Cast back in 2024.

Infinite Frontier Superman is just something else.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I kinda agree with it to some extent? Though it can be somewhat debatable.

On the side note, I genuinely think composite Hal, as well as maybe modern Hal, probably even surpasses WL Kyle with the LE
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
I really wanna say that Kyle losing, and that now with Unicron having reality fiction transcending stuff on par if not higher than the SoG means Optimus has a better chance against Superman.

But the fact that composite Optimus has almost no 1-A scaling outside some fairly vague 1-A Matrix hax he doesn't physically scale to/or some wacky singularity scaling, on top of Superman scaling to the 6-D, which exists way above the SoG....

Yeah my boi is still cooked 😭
Click to expand...
Let’s be honest, they ain’t gonna do Superman like they did Kyle. The Swank will prevail, the SoS will prevail

No one outside of SCP or WoD is ever gonna scratch blue boy and you can quote me on it
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
I really wanna say that Kyle losing, and that now with Unicron having reality fiction transcending stuff on par if not higher than the SoG means Optimus has a better chance against Superman.

But the fact that composite Optimus has almost no 1-A scaling outside some fairly vague 1-A Matrix hax he doesn't physically scale to/or some wacky singularity scaling, on top of Superman scaling to the 6-D, which exists way above the SoG....

Yeah my boi is still cooked 😭
Click to expand...
was going to suggest using the Thirteenth Prime but then remembered he's not apart of the multiversal Thirteen
 
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