Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[Shey]

I thought the default interpretation was the ice started melting because Uraume released their CT when trapped in Hakari's Domain and to hand it over to Sukuna.
We know they needs to actively maintain it to keep it solid cause that's exactly what happens when they're reeling from Choso's poison in 136

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

Occam’s razor isn’t gonna work here when we’re talking about scaling. If that’s just your belief then fine but it’s got zero value when it comes to applying it on pages.

It's not scaling
It's whether a sukuna performed the feat
Which you used two arguments to disprove
1. Uraume deactivated the technique- Disproven by her being trapped in hakari domain and no evidence of jjk sorcerers being able to see through dimensions
2. Sukuna made no gesture- Also disproven

 

[Arkenis]

I thought the default interpretation was the ice started melting because Uraume released their CT when trapped in Hakari's Domain and to hand it over to Sukuna.
We know they needs to actively maintain it to keep it solid cause that's exactly what happens when they're reeling from Choso's poison in 136

Yeah as I said before, its probably just a delayed deactivation.

 

[Shey]

Rereading that chapter just made me remember the entire Evolution of Humanity and Next stage of evolution plotline between Yuki and Kenjaku turned to absolutely nothing

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

I thought the default interpretation was the ice started melting because Uraume released their CT when trapped in Hakari's Domain and to hand it over to Sukuna.
We know they needs to actively maintain it to keep it solid cause that's exactly what happens when they're reeling from Choso's poison in 136

The default interpretation doesn't make sense
How did Uraume get the signal to deactivate her CT if she was trapped in hakari domain
The narrator already implied that this mass of ice wasn't affected by Uraume being sent to hakari domain

 

[Arkenis]

It's not scaling
It's whether a sukuna performed the feat
Which you used two arguments to disprove
1. Uraume deactivated the technique- Disproven by her being trapped in hakari domain and no evidence of jjk sorcerers being able to see through dimensions
2. Sukuna made no gesture- Also disproven

It inherently is scaling and we all know this. You originally said this, so don’t act like this isn’t your focus. And uh no not arguments, those are interpretations, what happened is not directly known so all I offer is “this” or “that”. Sukuna did make a gesture, both of us and everyone acknowledges this so wdym?

Would be nice feat to calculate since it was done by a sukuna at his weakest

 

[Shey]

They wouldn't need a signal, they were being intercepted and just deactivated because they were already at the location sufficient to just drop it off with Sukuna, how does the narrator imply that?
The ice would continue to fall regardless cause newsflash gravity exists, so that's a non-argument, do you expect it float lmao?

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

It inherently is scaling and we all know this. You originally said this, so don’t act like this isn’t your focus. And uh no not arguments, those are interpretations, what happened is not directly known so all I offer is “this” or “that”. Sukuna did make a gesture, both of us and everyone acknowledges this so wdym?

Yeah??
The problem isn't scaling, it's the feat like I said earlier
If the feat is pushed then scaling can be done
Interpretations can be arguments, especially in this case where our interpretations differ so I don't know what you're trying to say
What was shown was the ice being unaffected by Uraume absence in real space, then sukuna gesturing and the ice melts
The default assumption is that sukuna melted it

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

They wouldn't need a signal, they were being intercepted and just deactivated because they were already at the location sufficient to just drop it off with Sukuna, how does the narrator imply that?
The ice would continue to fall regardless cause newsflash gravity exists, so that's a non-argument, do you expect it float lmao?

That's an already addressed argument
If they intercepted it at the moment of activation it would have melted immediately
What would be falling would be water not ice

 

[Arkenis]

Yeah??
The problem isn't scaling, it's the feat like I said earlier
If the feat is pushed then scaling can be done
Interpretations can be arguments, especially in this case where our interpretations differ so I don't know what you're trying to say
What was shown was the ice being unaffected by Uraume absence in real space, then sukuna gesturing and the ice melts
The default assumption is that sukuna melted it

I’m saying the focus for you is on scaling for this, I’m not saying scaling is a problem. Interpretations certainly can be arguments, but I gave you interpretations as is, I don’t care to push for one interpretation or the other. So its not an argument for me, it is for you since you want this to be for scaling. Its like me offering you options for something you want and then you disagree with me on the options I gave you and you try to argue your option is better when I couldn’t care less what you choose. And I urge you to reread the scene, it is blatantly obvious all Sukuna does is lift his hand up to catch Kamutoke, nothing else.

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

I’m saying the focus for you is on scaling for this, I’m not saying scaling is a problem.

Okay?

Interpretations certainly can be arguments, but I gave you interpretations as is, I don’t care to push for one interpretation or the other. So its not an argument for me, it is for you since you want this to be for scaling. Its like me offering you options for something you want and then you disagree with me on the options I gave you and you try to argue your option is better when I couldn’t care less what you choose. And I urge you to reread the scene, it is blatantly obvious all Sukuna does is lift his hand up to catch Kamutoke, nothing else.

You pushed an interpretation to invalidate the feat in the first place but Okay
I have reread the scene that's how I knew sukuna made a gesture and despite the Uraume absence in real space the ice wasn't affected by it
All observations point to sukuna melting the ice but I respect your decision
it's not like I can force you in the first place
Edit: I checked the last panel before hakari activated his domain expansion and we see Uraume activating her technique, don't know how good this is as evidence tho

 

[Puppet43]

the fallout would actually be insane if it turns out to be false

predicting the future huh?

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

Kashimo has been relegated back to his top 11 status
He should leave top 10 for the actual top tiers
Hot take but disregarding speed Curseya is a disaster curse victim

 

[Arkenis]

You pushed an interpretation to invalidate the feat in the first place but Okay

No not exactly, I put an interpretation to cast doubt on the feat, this doesn't invalidate it, it gives others the chance to either offer their own interpretations or reinforce the original interpretations.

I have reread the scene that's how I knew sukuna made a gesture and despite the Uraume absence in real space the ice wasn't affected by it
All observations point to sukuna melting the ice but I respect your decision
it's not like I can force you in the first place

I would like to know what these observations are besides Sukuna lifting his hand up. I've reread the scene several times and nothing implies he fired a blast of ce.

 

[Puppet43]

Too generous for the Dagon victim

No domain Mahito victim*

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

No not exactly, I put an interpretation to cast doubt on the feat, this doesn't invalidate it, it gives others the chance to either offer their own interpretations or reinforce the original interpretations.

Hmmm

I would like to know what these observations are besides Sukuna lifting his hand up. I've reread the scene several times and nothing implies he fired a blast of ce.

The blast of CE is my personal headcanon
Other observations;
1. Uraume activating her technique before being trapped in hakari domain
2. The narrator noting the ice is still falling despite Uraume not being present in real space

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

Curseya is a disaster curse victim

 

[LIGHTYW]

Nro hes mywgoat bro, yall will see thks when the entire Interview drops, gege will say that hes the fastest sorcerer after gojo and sukuna and also that sukuna WASNT hdolnng back against him,

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

That's what I'm saying dawg
They don't see the vision

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

Nro hes mywgoat bro, yall will see thks when the entire Interview drops, gege will say that hes the fastest sorcerer after gojo and sukuna and also that sukuna WASNT hdolnng back against him,

I respect the ability to push the agenda in the face of slander
Unfortunately the comes in disagreement with mine so it doesn't exist objectively

 

[Yasuda_144]

How would "Sukuna melted the ice" even work anyway? Are we to believe that one of Shrine's abilities is a "pocket Divine Flame" that's never mentioned, and that he never uses before or after this one scene for seemingly zero reason? Either that, or telekinetically creating heat by snapping your fingers is something "raw Cursed Energy" can do even though every use of it we've seen is consussive in nature and is strictly limited to regular projectiles.

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

How would "Sukuna melted the ice" even work anyway? Are we to believe that one of Shrine's abilities is a "pocket Divine Flame" that's never mentioned, and that he never uses before or after this one scene for seemingly zero reason? Either that, or telekinetically creating heat by snapping your fingers is something "raw Cursed Energy" can do even though every use of it we've seen is consussive in nature and is strictly limited to regular projectiles.

Doesn't mechamaru release raw cursed energy as well but it still vaporises?
Not all cursed energy release behave like concussive force
Not that sukuna snapped his finger he just lifted his hands
Anyway it's late at my end, I'm going to sleep now

 

[Giannysmag]

The DCs are really underrated and I'd argue Mahito is a top 10 contender but yall ain't ready for that convo

Nro hes mywgoat bro, yall will see thks when the entire Interview drops, gege will say that hes the fastest sorcerer after gojo and sukuna and also that sukuna WASNT hdolnng back against him,

This man can't be stopped, the delusion is too powerful

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Mahito top 10

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

The DCs are really underrated and I'd argue Mahito is a top 10 contender but yall ain't ready for that convo

Aight, top 10 is kinda crazy brother

 

[Giannysmag]

Mahito top 10

You heard me

 

[Giannysmag]

Aight, top 10 is kinda crazy brother

Name me one wincon Kashimo has against him

 

[Arkenis]

Mahito and Jogo being t10 ain’t that crazy, just think its gonna be hard arguing they can land hits are basically anyone Naoya and above.

 

[Giannysmag]

Mahito and Jogo being t10 ain’t that crazy, just think its gonna be hard arguing they can land hits are basically anyone Naoya and above.

Jogo isn't that far off from the top tiers speed wise and he has huge AOE, Mahito has the 0.2 sec DE

 

[MinatoSparkle]

You heard me

Blud's not even top 15

 

[Giannysmag]

Blud's not even top 15

Agree to disagree

 

[Arkenis]

Jogo isn't that far off from the top tiers speed wise and he has huge AOE, Mahito has the 0.2 sec DE

He is I think. Dagon thinks Naobito might be fast than Jogo, once we get to a healed Maki, she’s being blitzed by cursed womb Naoya and then he gets faster as a spirit and then Maki needs to get better senses to outpace Mach 3. A couple of people in the t15 are arguably on her level of speed and when we get to t10 there’s several people with speed amps of their own. And go by everything we see, Hakari’s speed increases in domain over time, Kashimo’s faster than Hakari, basically everyone keeps up with Sukuna to an extent. You’re looking at 10+ people consistently faster in reactions and combat and a few arguable like Ryu or Uro.

 

[Giannysmag]

He is I think. Dagon thinks Naobito might be fast than Jogo, once we get to a healed Maki, she’s being blitzed by cursed womb Naoya and then he gets faster as a spirit and then Maki needs to get better senses to outpace Mach 3. A couple of people in the t15 are arguably on her level of speed and when we get to t10 there’s several people with speed amps of their own. And go by everything we see, Hakari’s speed increases in domain over time, Kashimo’s faster than Hakari, basically everyone keeps up with Sukuna to an extent. You’re looking at 10+ people consistently faster in reactions and combat and a few arguable like Ryu or Uro.

Maybe it's cause I'm really tired and about to go to sleep but I'm not sure how anything you've said here proves that Jogo is slower than the top tiers

 

[Arkenis]

Maybe it's cause I'm really tired and about to go to sleep but I'm not sure how anything you've said here proves that Jogo is slower than the top tiers

It's a scale of how everyone scales to higher speed feats and speed calcs after Jogo since Jogo's speed is considered relative or lower than Naobito's PS speed.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

The DCs are really underrated and I'd argue Mahito is a top 10 contender but yall ain't ready for that convo

The Disaster Curses got stuck in power cliff hell. For once-in-a-century/millennia cursed spirits, you'd think they'd be way higher on the scale than their feats suggest

I've been reading this one fanfic called Jujutsu Kaisen Minus One. IIRC the disaster curses are CG heavy hitter level. That seems like an appropriate level of power for them with little training

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

Name me one wincon Kashimo has against him

You are lowkey cooking but that boy is too slow

 

[Arkenis]

Oh that reminds me also, Hanami's more durable than cs Naoya but this isn't saying much since Todo and Yuji were already able to harm Hanami, and Hanami's got the highest dura out of the DCs. They have the hax to win fights but they don't have the stats.

 

[Giannysmag]

It's a scale of how everyone scales to higher speed feats and speed calcs after Jogo since Jogo's speed is considered relative or lower than Naobito's PS speed.

Yea but all of the feats you listed are pretty much saying that Maki is slower than Curseya and the top 15 are relative to Maki so you haven't established how this scales them over Jogo or Naobito

I've been reading this one fanfic, where the disaster curses are CG heavy hitter level IIRC. That seems like an appropriate level of power for them with little training

Good thing they are already near that level (quick reminder that 3/4 DCs where taken out by the top 3 of the verse and the fourth by a cocked up Toji)

 

[Arkenis]

Yea but all of the feats you listed are pretty much saying that Maki is slower than Curseya and the top 15 are relative to Maki so you haven't established how this scales them over Jogo or Naobito

I did. Jogo ~< Naobito ~ Naoya ~ Dying Maki < Healthy Maki < Cursya < Mach 3 Cursya < High Maki < Speed amps like Bug armor, MBA, Kashimo's regular speed already above Hakari's, Hakari then able to gain speed amps in domain. And then the fact everyone notable can keep up with Sukuna to varying degrees while Jogo's whole thing was him trying landing a hit on Sukuna and failing.

There's also several calcs putting people in supersonic to hypersonic that Jogo doesn't scale to

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Good thing they are already near that level (quick reminder that 3/4 DCs where taken out by the top 3 of the verse and the fourth by a cocked up Toji)

You mean Mahito got taken out by a Grade 1 jumping