Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[MinatoSparkle]

I don't think he cared about that, because he believed he killed Higuruma, Higuruma only survived through sheer luck, Sukuna doesn't mind killing Gojo level talents.

I'm aware, I'm just saying that Yuta's probably not of greater interest to Sukuna than Higuruma, so Yuta's presence wouldn't instantly make him lose interest in Higuruma and toss him aside.

Also, as an aside, Yuta scaling to this Sukuna is consistent with him believing he could take on Mahoraga and Agito after seeing them battle against Gojo, and Maki/Yuji not really disagreeing. Post-Kashimo fight Sukuna basically being Pre-Purple Sukuna with a better form.

When he fought Maki he already believed he killed Yuta, when he faced Kusakabe he believed he already put Maki out of commission,

He didn't kill Kusakabe or Ino while his main fight was against Maki

when he started to get interested on Miguel Yuji and other showed up, and after that he proceeded to get nailed by 7/8 Black Flashs from Yuji that pretty much obliterated his output to the point his only win conditions were Domain Expansion or WCS.

So then you think he was serious after getting nailed by those Black Flashes?

 

[Giannysmag]

Brotha, because sukuna was holding back, you dont get it?

Against Kashimo? Yes
Against Gojo? No

 

[Giannysmag]

Also I feel I need to remind everyone that even the freshly reincarnated Sukuna that fought Kashimo was still suffering from brain damage and a one shot level drop in output

 

[DarkRuler234]

I'm aware, I'm just saying that Yuta's probably not of greater interest to Sukuna than Higuruma, so Yuta's presence wouldn't instantly make him lose interest in Higuruma and toss him aside.

Also, as an aside, Yuta scaling to this Sukuna is consistent with him believing he could take on Mahoraga and Agito after seeing them battle against Gojo, and Maki/Yuji not really disagreeing. Post-Kashimo fight Sukuna basically being Pre-Purple Sukuna with a better form.

He didn't kill Kusakabe or Ino while his main fight was against Maki

So then you think he was serious after getting nailed by those Black Flashes?

Dude I think he just started to fight seriously after he realized that Yuji could actually kill him, but by that point he was too weak for that to make a big difference.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I've always found the Sukuna holding back thing pretty sus in general

 

[DarkRuler234]

I've always found the Sukuna holding back thing pretty sus in general

I mean unless Gege says otherwise that's what the story implies.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

The story also implies otherwise with other things, I think it's like the Sukuna holding back against Gojo thing where it's moreso abilities than stats

 

[Arkenis]

The story also implies otherwise with other things, I think it's like the Sukuna holding back against Gojo thing where it's moreso abilities than stats

Hakari thinks Sukuna's becoming weaker because his ce is taking a nosedive, Uraume corrects him and explains that Sukuna's interests in his opponents controls the waves of ce and following this Uraume explains that Sukuna hasn't gone all out. Then after this we get the first time Sukuna actually tries because he wants to prove sorcery > HR and he blitzes Maki. This stuff is cut and dry that Sukuna's level of trying is fluctuating throughout the fight and its got zero to do with abilities, and these abilities btw are just fire arrow and wcs.

You know what I've got some free time I'm gonna make a blog for Sukuna's varying level throughout fight.

 

[DarkRuler234]

You know what I've got some free time I'm gonna make a blog for Sukuna's varying level throughout fight.

Didn't Mx3 do one of those where he showed how progressively weak Sukuna got throughout the raid?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Hakari thinks Sukuna's becoming weaker because his ce is taking a nosedive, Uraume corrects him and explains that Sukuna's interests in his opponents controls the waves of ce and following this Uraume explains that Sukuna hasn't gone all out. Then after this we get the first time Sukuna actually tries because he wants to prove sorcery > HR and he blitzes Maki. This stuff is cut and dry that Sukuna's level of trying is fluctuating throughout the fight and its got zero to do with abilities, and these abilities btw are just fire arrow and wcs.

Fuga is primarily what I'm referring to. And it is cut and dry on paper, but it's just not consistent with Sukuna literally thinking in his head about how he doesn't have the power to kill Yuji and Yuta without Cleave and the narrator saying he gave everything he had/was in pure desperation mode when he released Hollow Wicker Basket

And I think Sukuna himself and the narrator are better sources than Uraume observing from afar

 

[LIGHTYW]

In a simple scaling chain, tell me how you get to the conclusion of Kashimo>Gojo

I never said that... I said that mba kashimo is faster than that gojo withouth blue.... But gojo would still beat him

 

[LIGHTYW]

Yeah, yeah and the sky is brown, and the sun is cold.

MBA has no feats on True Body Sukuna, he literally got folded by that Sukuna, and as much as I don't like it, the only character he has gone all-out was Maki and she got bodied, everyone else was just an appetizer per the narrator.

He literally has.. +against a stronger and higher output true body sukuna than the one maki fought.....

And despite him "going all out" he still hold back lol, otherwise, she wouldnt get knockedout only, she would be instantly cut in half......

 

[LIGHTYW]

Against Kashimo? Yes
Against Gojo? No

Brotha, its 2025, gojo himself said this
And he didnt hold baxk against kashimo aka top 3

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I never said that... I said that mba kashimo is faster than that gojo withouth blue.... But gojo would still beat him

That's what I mean, give me a scaling chain that puts Kashimo>Gojo in speed

 

[LIGHTYW]

That's what I mean, give me a scaling chain that puts Kashimo>Gojo in speed

Brotha, its bery simple
Sukuna was holding back against gojo ( a gojo thats amped by blue everytime... +Gojo himself says that even miguel is comoarable to him with ce only), and yet, he still reacts to him consistently
Sukuna uses his peak form and goes at full power against kashimo...
Kashimo shows relativity to the same peak sukuna
Which means that kashimo is faster than gojo withouth blue , understand now? Or i have to draw It for yall

 

[Arkenis]

Fuga is primarily what I'm referring to. And it is cut and dry on paper, but it's just not consistent with Sukuna literally thinking in his head about how he doesn't have the power to kill Yuji and Yuta without Cleave and the narrator saying he gave everything he had/was in pure desperation mode when he released Hollow Wicker Basket

He punched through Choso, I'm sure he could've done the same to Yuta and Yuji but he was having his output dropped and wanted to play around with them. Could I see that narrator statement? nvm saw it. This just follows the fact his output is being dropped.

And I think Sukuna himself and the narrator are better sources than Uraume observing from afar

Hakari and Uraume are just sensing his curse energy, and Uraume knows Sukuna to the point she knows Sukuna's ce fluctuates depending on the opponent.

 

[Duedate8898]

Sukuna would no longer be holding back by the time he black flashes Maki. Or better yet, by the point he black flashes Larue.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Brotha, its bery simple
Sukuna was holding back against gojo ( a gojo thats amped by blue everytime... +Gojo himself says that even miguel is comoarable to him with ce only), and yet, he still reacts to him consistently
Sukuna uses his peak form and goes at full power against kashimo...
Kashimo shows relativity to the same peak sukuna
Which means that kashimo is faster than gojo withouth blue , understand now? Or i have to draw It for yall

So your scale is Kashimo~True Form Sukuna>Holding Back Meguna~Blue Gojo>Base Gojo? Glad to finally have a clear answer, but anyways no, this is a bad scale.

Kashimo only ever reacts to Sukuna over a distance, and whenever they get in close quarters, Sukuna beats him up

Like you even said yourself, Meguna could barely react to Gojo in ch 235, so there's only a very low end level of relativity, and you haven't proven that that Gojo is at full power then. Him recovering does not prove that he got back to his best. He still had brain damage from resetting his burnt out cursed technique too many times, and his CE levels weren't at their best.

Sukuna holding back at that point in the fight is also illogical, given that the narrator states him to be genuinely nervous, and his facial expressions clearly show his concern.

So this is a more accurate scale: Kashimo<(but same blitz tier as) True Form Sukuna>Damaged Meguna<(but same blitz tier as) Damaged Blue Gojo<FP Blue Gojo>Base Gojo. Doesn't really get you anywhere, and the fact that Meguna after being cooked by Purple was able to keep up with Kashimo to any extent is a really bad look for him being faster than a fresh Gojo, even without Blue.

He punched through Choso, I'm sure he could've done the same to Yuta and Yuji

Choso is below Yuji and Yuta

but he was having his output dropped and wanted to play around with them.

For the output drop point, fair enough, but him playing around shouldn't extend to his own thoughts

Could I see that narrator statement? nvm saw it. This just follows the fact his output is being dropped.

Yeah, but this statement is before Uraume's about Sukuna still holding back, so there's a dissonance here regardless

Hakari and Uraume are just sensing his curse energy, and Uraume knows Sukuna to the point she knows Sukuna's ce fluctuates depending on the opponent.

One would think so

 

[Arkenis]

Choso is below Yuji and Yuta

Why?

For the output drop point, fair enough, but him playing around shouldn't extend to his own thoughts

Nothing there contradicts that he's still having fun with them and being impressed by them.

Yeah, but this statement is before Uraume's about Sukuna still holding back, so there's a dissonance here regardless

I think the statements work together. Sukuna being desperate in context is due to his output and body control dropping thus rendering his rct limited and his power limited. And Uraume's statement still makes sense here, Uraume may or may not know of Yuji's soul punches but still knows Sukuna's drop in ce level isn't due to his weakened state from Gojo or Yuji but rather that's how Sukuna is when he's not impressed by the people he fights in comparison to Gojo.

 

[Da3ggman]

Do you guys think we could get lifting strength from Kenjaku getting hit by the pull of Yuki's black hole (before he activated anti-gravity) accepted? It could probably get to around Class P.

 

[JnSteHar002]

Do you guys think we could get lifting strength from Kenjaku getting hit by the pull of Yuki's black hole (before he activated anti-gravity) accepted? It could probably get to around Class P.

Pretty sure there's a calc that got those results

 

[DarkRuler234]

He literally has.. +against a stronger and higher output true body sukuna than the one maki fought.....

And despite him "going all out" he still hold back lol, otherwise, she wouldnt get knockedout only, she would be instantly cut in half......

He literally got folded by True Body Sukuna, and there's nothing to prove Sukuna wasn't holding back against Kashimo.

 

[Arkenis]

Do you guys think we could get lifting strength from Kenjaku getting hit by the pull of Yuki's black hole (before he activated anti-gravity) accepted? It could probably get to around Class P.

Already did and it got rejected. Was pretty much the last hope for getting us out of tier 7-C.

 

[Da3ggman]

Already did and it got rejected. Was pretty much the last hope for getting us out of tier 7-C.

Bro what is it with this site and its hate boner for JJK?

 

[Arkenis]

Bro what is it with this site and its hate boner for JJK?

Feats just don't pan out is all.

 

[Da3ggman]

Feats just don't pan out is all.

But what about the feat doesn't pan out? The feat happens, I've seen lifting strength be determined from black holes before, we've got all the data we need (Size of black hole, weight of Kenjaku, how far he is, etc). The only way to deny it would be to scream outlier.

 

[Arkenis]

But what about the feat doesn't pan out? The feat happens, I've seen lifting strength be determined from black holes before, we've got all the data we need (Size of black hole, weight of Kenjaku, how far he is, etc). The only way to deny it would be to scream outlier.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Arkenis/Kenjaku_&_Yuki's_Black_Hole Here's mine
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:PowerToScale/Jujutsu_Kaisen:_Kenjaku_Resists_Black_Hole And then this one just never got looked at again but I assume the method would be unaccepted.

 

[Da3ggman]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:PowerToScale/Jujutsu_Kaisen:_Kenjaku_Resists_Black_Hole And then this one just never got looked at again but I assume the method would be unaccepted.

This one, oddly enough, was accepted on the basis of its formula; the calculation is fine, Aagna just refrained from commenting on the in-universe stuff around it. We could probably use this for stuff.

 

[Giannysmag]

Brotha, its 2025, gojo himself said this

Sukuna held back certain abilities against Gojo like Fuga and his true form but there is zero indication he held back in terms of stats

And he didnt hold baxk against kashimo aka top 3

(also notice how both Uraume and the narrator are specifically talking about Sukuna holding back after his fight with Gojo, funny how that works)

 

[PowerToScale]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Arkenis/Kenjaku_&_Yuki's_Black_Hole Here's mine
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:PowerToScale/Jujutsu_Kaisen:_Kenjaku_Resists_Black_Hole And then this one just never got looked at again but I assume the method would be unaccepted.

I've tried asking calc members to have a look and left it to them to see at their own time but I don't think anyone got around to do so, unless you can get a calc member to look at it all or we wait 1000 years for someone to do so lmao

 

[LIGHTYW]

Sukuna held back certain abilities against Gojo like Fuga and his true form but there is zero indication he held back in terms of stats

(also notice how both Uraume and the narrator are specifically talking about Sukuna holding back after his fight with Gojo, funny how that works)

What? Theres zero indication that gojo was saying that because of some abilities lmao, and you can argue with gojo lol, not my problem at all, if geges intention was to say that, he would simply write "but sukuna couldnt use all of his abilities against me "....
Not to mention that theres is proof that sukuna was holding back in stats lol, through the entire fight.....

Also... None of those pictures prove that sukuna wasnt going all out against kashimo lol, all they say was that sukuna had more interest on maki....
You can clearly see sukuna putting more effort and trying harder against yuta despite those statements lol, like him literally doing a desesperate move to try to kill yuta when at that moment, he knew he could be already kicked out of megumi if megumi didnt denied lol ( because against yuta, sukuna knew that he was in actual danger if he kept playing around on domain ), but luckily, megumi "denied" and he was able to fire a WCS

 

[LIGHTYW]

He literally got folded by True Body Sukuna, and there's nothing to prove Sukuna wasn't holding back against Kashimo.

Anyone would by that true form spamming WCS at you, and the fact that he instantly goes for a kill using WCS proves to me....
bro he IS the goat, top 3 jus stop hating like

 

[Giannysmag]

What? Theres zero indication that gojo was saying that because of some abilities lmao, and you can argue with gojo lol, not my problem at all, if geges intention was to say that, he would simply write "but sukuna couldnt use all of his abilities against me "....

Gojo (at least in the TCB translation) says "and he wasn't even giving it all he had" which can very well mean "he didn't use everything at his disposial". Also immedeatly after this Gojo says that it would have been close even if Sukuna didn't have the ten shadows, which doesn't make sense for him to say if he also thinks Sukuna at full power is actuallya hundred times stronger than him and would blitz and one shot him.

Also in the actual fight every time it's implied Sukuna is holding back in some way it's always in reference to him not using a specific move or ability. Gojo questions why Sukuna didn't destroy his domain from the inside and instead chose the riskier option, which we later learn was to adapt Maho and Kusakabe (or Hakari I don't remember) thinks Sukuna has some ace up his sleeve that he is saving incase he gets jumped by Jujutsu High, which we later learn was his true form.

Not to mention that theres is proof that sukuna was holding back in stats lol, through the entire fight.....

Such as?

Also... None of those pictures prove that sukuna wasnt going all out against kashimo lol,

Something something JJK fans can't read

all they say was that sukuna had more interest on maki....

And Sukuna's CE flactuates based on his interest in his opponent

You can clearly see sukuna putting more effort and trying harder against yuta despite those statements lol, like him literally doing a desesperate move to try to kill yuta when at that moment, he knew he could be already kicked out of megumi if megumi didnt denied lol ( because against yuta, sukuna knew that he was in actual danger if he kept playing around on domain ), but luckily, megumi "denied" and he was able to fire a WCS

The way Uraume describes it I imagine Sukuna can't consiously control the flactuations of his CE. It's something entirely based on his excitment, which would expain why he had to resort to the WCS. But also he had taken like a dozen soul punches atp and his output was so low Yuta could just walk through a barrage of dismantles so it's possible that he just straight up wouldn't be able to kill Yuta in time even if he did go all out so instead he decided to use the WCS which is an insta-kill

 

[Giannysmag]

Anyone would by that true form spamming WCS at you, and the fact that he instantly goes for a kill using WCS proves to me....
bro he IS the goat, top 3 jus stop hating like

I guess Maki and Kusakabe are top 3 as well since he almost immedeatly uses WCS on them too

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I guess Kusakabe are top 3 as well since he almost immedeatly uses WCS on them too

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

When I remake this thread in future I hope people vote with neutral mindset

Yuta vs Yuji

Seeing JJK kinda dead on here don't feel right. Shinjuku Yuta Shinjuku Yuji Starting distance 50m Yuta: Nierre, XSOULOFCINDERX, Ebihara, noninho, TsukasayaEmmaDCD Yuji:

vsbattles.com

 

[DarkRuler234]

Anyone would by that true form spamming WCS at you, and the fact that he instantly goes for a kill using WCS proves to me....
bro he IS the goat, top 3 jus stop hating like

You have to prove those were WCS, and even if they were that doesn’t prove Sukuna was fighting him seriously since he used WCS on Yuta and Maki, and was going to use on Kusakabe.

There's also the narrator calling him an appetizer for Sukuna.

He is not top 3, and never will be.

 

[LIGHTYW]

Gojo (at least in the TCB translation) says "and he wasn't even giving it all he had" which can very well mean "he didn't use everything at his disposial". Also immedeatly after this Gojo says that it would have been close even if Sukuna didn't have the ten shadows, which doesn't make sense for him to say if he also thinks Sukuna at full power is actuallya hundred times stronger than him and would blitz and one shot him.

Also in the actual fight every time it's implied Sukuna is holding back in some way it's always in reference to him not using a specific move or ability. Gojo questions why Sukuna didn't destroy his domain from the inside and instead chose the riskier option, which we later learn was to adapt Maho and Kusakabe (or Hakari I don't remember) thinks Sukuna has some ace up his sleeve that he is saving incase he gets jumped by Jujutsu High, which we later learn was his true form.

Such as?

Something something JJK fans can't read

And Sukuna's CE flactuates based on his interest in his opponent

The way Uraume describes it I imagine Sukuna can't consiously control the flactuations of his CE. It's something entirely based on his excitment, which would expain why he had to resort to the WCS. But also he had taken like a dozen soul punches atp and his output was so low Yuta could just walk through a barrage of dismantles so it's possible that he just straight up wouldn't be able to kill Yuta in time even if he did go all out so instead he decided to use the WCS which is an insta-kill

Gojo straight up says that SUKUNA didnt even go all out, read shishiso ( the best translation of all times )..............
And nobody said that sukuna is a hundred times stronger than gojo withouth holding back lol, it simply wouldnt be as close as the fight was....................
And the things you said is literally one of the proofs that sukuna was holding back...
And things such as, all the domains clashes, post domain, where sukuna uses domain amplification to attack literally 4 times in Full 4 chapters and etc......................

And uraume statement doesnt apply to kashimo fight, as she literally was trapped on a domain during it.......
And my point is that besides those statements of uraume and etc, we can clearly see more effort of sukuna against yuta than against maki, despite the narrator calling yuta an appetizer, it was against yuta only that sukuna literally bet his life trying to kill him, otherwise sukuna would be dead anyways

And if im not wrong.... Sukuna never used WCS on maki..... And against kusakabe... Its a different case....

 

[LIGHTYW]

You have to prove those were WCS, and even if they were that doesn’t prove Sukuna was fighting him seriously since he used WCS on Yuta and Maki, and was going to use on Kusakabe.

There's also the narrator calling him an appetizer for Sukuna.

He is not top 3, and never will be.

Prove?.... Him doing all the handsigns, chants and pointing isnt enough proofs? And even kashimo saying that it was the same attack that finished gojo........
And the difference js that everyone you cited got and would get oneshotted by it lol, and maki never got hit by WCS, sukuna himself said this......
Would be weird if maki could avoid WCS that easily but after 4 chapters, maki gets blitzed and completely vanishes from the fight after a casual dismantle

 

[DarkRuler234]

Prove?.... Him doing all the handsigns, chants and pointing isnt enough proofs? And even kashimo saying that it was the same attack that finished gojo........
And the difference js that everyone you cited got and would get oneshotted by it lol, and maki never got hit by WCS, sukuna himself said this......
Would be weird if maki could avoid WCS that easily but after 4 chapters, maki gets blitzed and completely vanishes from the fight after a casual dismantle

Sukuna only uses once the chants and hand signs once, after that he proceeded to fold Kashimo with no difficulty at all, and there's no indication that he was fighting him seriously since both the Narrator and Uraume indicate that since Gojo's death he wasn’t really trying at all, and Kashimo is even called an appetizer for Sukuna.

He only dodged because Sukuna told him to, and even them he still got hit by it.

Yes, Maki did get blitzed by Sukuna, but that's because Sukuna actually started to try against her because he wanted to prove that Sorcery was superior to Heavenly Restriction.

Like I said there's nothing to prove that Sukuna took Kashimo seriously when everything indicates the opposite.