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But his main account is still left unbanned by AKM, the one banned him?
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BLEACH: Gremmy upgrade
- Thread starter Infinite9Luck
- Start date
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- bleach
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- 34,563
- 34,994
I don't know the details of it. It's been brought up in the RVT so I recommend all further discussion of it continue there and not here.
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So, seeing as my pupil (factual, don’t ask him) has been banned, I’m the new self-appointed OP until the situation clears up.
For the newly tagged staff, this is the current state of the argumentation. There is a previous post by my goat Lephyr "summarizing" the arguments made before.
Current state: The opposition seems to have conceded the Outlier arguments (if y’all haven’t, just reply with your arguments again, although most arguments and counterarguments are in Lephyr’s post). The debate now hinges on whether these creations are true in the sense of "As for the questions themselves, I want to formulate them better before I start asking them. They'll essentially be about why the stars we see are actual stars, with the same energy requirements as an actual star. And a more Metaphysical question about Gremmy's Imagination not necessarily being equivalent with Reality."
Since this is mainly Deceived’s argument, I don’t want to misrepresent him. Also, he hasn’t been able to expand on his full claim/argument due to personal circumstances. If what has been presented so far doesn’t convince you one way or another, you can wait for his post addressing his argument in the near future.
Arguments against this claim of the opposition are as follows. Keep in mind that, since we don’t have the opposition’s full argument, the counterarguments are also subject to change or expansion.)
Current vote:
Staff:
LephyrTheRevanchist and Reiner04 agree with all of the OP.
Damage3245 is currently neutral.
Duedate8898 disagrees (since he disagreed a while ago and the discussion has evolved a lot in the pages since, I’d implore him to give updated reasons for his disagreement, though he’s within his rights not to, and his vote is valid).
Notable, well-versed non-staff of the verse:
Arc7Kuroi fully agrees with the OP.
Hellscream fully agrees with the OP.
I, myself (Humble), fully agree (open to counterarguments and disagreements, also waiting on Deceived to go in-depth, but based on the evidence so far and my own reading/watching, I am mostly sure in my agreement).
Deceived3596, as stated before, disagrees and is preparing his counterarguments.
Arc and Deceived are kind of the two GOATs of the verse, and since one agrees and the other disagrees, please give both sides the benefit of the doubt and engage with/consider both arguments.
For the newly tagged staff, this is the current state of the argumentation. There is a previous post by my goat Lephyr "summarizing" the arguments made before.
Current state: The opposition seems to have conceded the Outlier arguments (if y’all haven’t, just reply with your arguments again, although most arguments and counterarguments are in Lephyr’s post). The debate now hinges on whether these creations are true in the sense of "As for the questions themselves, I want to formulate them better before I start asking them. They'll essentially be about why the stars we see are actual stars, with the same energy requirements as an actual star. And a more Metaphysical question about Gremmy's Imagination not necessarily being equivalent with Reality."
Since this is mainly Deceived’s argument, I don’t want to misrepresent him. Also, he hasn’t been able to expand on his full claim/argument due to personal circumstances. If what has been presented so far doesn’t convince you one way or another, you can wait for his post addressing his argument in the near future.
Arguments against this claim of the opposition are as follows. Keep in mind that, since we don’t have the opposition’s full argument, the counterarguments are also subject to change or expansion.)
Current vote:
Staff:
LephyrTheRevanchist and Reiner04 agree with all of the OP.
Damage3245 is currently neutral.
Duedate8898 disagrees (since he disagreed a while ago and the discussion has evolved a lot in the pages since, I’d implore him to give updated reasons for his disagreement, though he’s within his rights not to, and his vote is valid).
Notable, well-versed non-staff of the verse:
Arc7Kuroi fully agrees with the OP.
Hellscream fully agrees with the OP.
I, myself (Humble), fully agree (open to counterarguments and disagreements, also waiting on Deceived to go in-depth, but based on the evidence so far and my own reading/watching, I am mostly sure in my agreement).
Deceived3596, as stated before, disagrees and is preparing his counterarguments.
Arc and Deceived are kind of the two GOATs of the verse, and since one agrees and the other disagrees, please give both sides the benefit of the doubt and engage with/consider both arguments.
Last edited:
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Don't assume it, unless he specifically clarify.
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I want to wait for @Deceived3596's post before I vote.
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bump
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So whats going on lol?
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@Deceived3596 said he'd get his response out sometime this week, so maybe we can expect a response from him this weekend
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I'll have my post out here Saturday.
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Don't be selfish.
Count my vote
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I just finished my conversation with Arc and we had a fruitful discussion about my issues with the feat. After careful consideration, I'm fine with the 4-A rating existing within the context of the site. There is enough evidence supporting the rating as laid out by many others, much more compared to some other prominent feats of this type, and we allow the assumptions made with them about their composition and dimensions to exist without issue. It would be pretty hypocritical to have strict standards for Bleach, but no other verse that has similar feats are beholden to it.
Now, I may have some potential disagreements with the feat aside from the ones I discussed previously, or alluded to before, but those don't currently dissuade my opinion on how it should be categorized on site. If my opinion changes, and I find myself believing those potential issues provide a symmetry breaker between Gremmy's feat and others of its type, that would require it to be removed, I will remove it personally.
Before ending my post though: I do believe after this thread is completed, and if the rating is accepted and applied, we must figure who exactly scales to it. A thread should be made right after this one to address this concern before we start applying additional ratings. I don't want to have a situation where we're applying ratings to characters without sufficient proof of them actually scaling to it.
So, to end my post; while I may have some personal hangups with the feat, and they might eventually change my opinion on this, I don't believe they're prominent or logically developed enough to dissuade me from saying the feat should probably be accepted as a full rating, as other feats like it have been applied as, with inferior evidence supporting the conclusion.
Now, I may have some potential disagreements with the feat aside from the ones I discussed previously, or alluded to before, but those don't currently dissuade my opinion on how it should be categorized on site. If my opinion changes, and I find myself believing those potential issues provide a symmetry breaker between Gremmy's feat and others of its type, that would require it to be removed, I will remove it personally.
Before ending my post though: I do believe after this thread is completed, and if the rating is accepted and applied, we must figure who exactly scales to it. A thread should be made right after this one to address this concern before we start applying additional ratings. I don't want to have a situation where we're applying ratings to characters without sufficient proof of them actually scaling to it.
So, to end my post; while I may have some personal hangups with the feat, and they might eventually change my opinion on this, I don't believe they're prominent or logically developed enough to dissuade me from saying the feat should probably be accepted as a full rating, as other feats like it have been applied as, with inferior evidence supporting the conclusion.
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Yeah I said I’ll do that if it gets accepted a few pages ago, which I could just tell you cuz we’re in vc rn, but uhhhhhh
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...but uhhhhhh
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I'm still neutral until the whole scaling situation gets resolved, but I'm leaning towards being okay with a "up to 4-A Creation with Visionary" for Gremmy - it's the scaling of that directly to Kenpachi or others that has me dubious.
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Yeah there are some things Deceived and I need to talk about regarding scaling as it pertains to the logic of it and consistency. Truthfully I think this thread should just concern itself with the rating going on Gremmy’s profile alone. But frankly idr what’s currently accepted in this thread atm lol
IdiosyncraticLawyer
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...
What's the state of the votes?
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Same as stated in the OP. @Nierre has yet to comment, as he mentioned he would do so after evaluating deceived opinion on it.
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If this gets accepted, can Yamamoto gain a tier jump in a following up thread?
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We shall see, the next thread will be to discuss who if anyone scales. No need to clog up this thread asking questions we won’t know the answer to until next thread tho
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn
He/Him- 3,900
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That sounds good to me.
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they must’ve forgot he’s him
Hellscream
He/Him- 2,403
- 1,369
About time that the thread got finished
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IdiosyncraticLawyer
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So what do we do now?
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Well, at this point, we've reached the compromise of making Gremmy 4-A and leaving the scaling for other characters for the next CRT. This means that out of the proposed OP, only Gremmy will receive changes in this CRT, while the rest like Kenny, Toshiro, and Gerard will be left for the next CRT that Arc will make, where we’ll see if they scale at all and if they do, who else scales via them, if anyone.
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I can apply the change; I've had it prepared for almost a week
Although, just to be sure before doing it, there are three who agree, one neutral, and one who disagrees. Is that enough?
Although, just to be sure before doing it, there are three who agree, one neutral, and one who disagrees. Is that enough?
IdiosyncraticLawyer
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Yes.
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Already sent Arc a DM, as it's easier and faster to have the conversation through Discord.
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So, a consequence of this thread getting accepted is that the Gremmy clones are no longer linear amps atm. So the base justifications for Zaraki and Gremmy will be cleaned up a smidgen.
Gremmy
Attack Potency: Multi-Continent level (Gremmy is probably the strongest Sternritter and no other Sternritter dared to challenge him, albeit whether this encompasses the full capabilities of The Visionary or simply his base power is unknown, he can somewhat keep up with eyepatch Zaraki, and only started losing because he imagined himself losing [2.2175 Exatons]), up to Multi-Solar System level with The Visionary (Each clone Gremmy creates with his Schrift drastically amplifies his power, Gremmy creates an explosion by detonating 7 clones that harms eyepatch Zaraki with his Shikai, and he even creates an outerspace populated with countless stars [16.88 ExaFoe])
Striking Strength: Likely Multi-Continent level (Should be comparable to his Attack Potency), far higher with The Visionary (Gremmy can create clones to increase his power)
Durability: Multi-Continent level (Blocks attacks from eyepatch Zaraki [2.2175 Exatons]), far higher with The Visionary (Creating clones amplifies his durability)
Kenpachi
Attack Potency: At least Multi-Continent level (Consistently has the upper hand against Gremmy, far stronger than before [2.2175 Exatons])
Durability: Multi-Continent level (Tanked attacks from Gremmy [2.2175])
The changes here is the High 6-A value goes from ~14 exatons to ~2 exatons. I'm going to apply ^ these changes and then I'll let y'all know and this thread can be closed. Then time to work on the scaling ramifications thread lol.
Gremmy
Attack Potency: Multi-Continent level (Gremmy is probably the strongest Sternritter and no other Sternritter dared to challenge him, albeit whether this encompasses the full capabilities of The Visionary or simply his base power is unknown, he can somewhat keep up with eyepatch Zaraki, and only started losing because he imagined himself losing [2.2175 Exatons]), up to Multi-Solar System level with The Visionary (Each clone Gremmy creates with his Schrift drastically amplifies his power, Gremmy creates an explosion by detonating 7 clones that harms eyepatch Zaraki with his Shikai, and he even creates an outerspace populated with countless stars [16.88 ExaFoe])
Striking Strength: Likely Multi-Continent level (Should be comparable to his Attack Potency), far higher with The Visionary (Gremmy can create clones to increase his power)
Durability: Multi-Continent level (Blocks attacks from eyepatch Zaraki [2.2175 Exatons]), far higher with The Visionary (Creating clones amplifies his durability)
Kenpachi
Attack Potency: At least Multi-Continent level (Consistently has the upper hand against Gremmy, far stronger than before [2.2175 Exatons])
Durability: Multi-Continent level (Tanked attacks from Gremmy [2.2175])
The changes here is the High 6-A value goes from ~14 exatons to ~2 exatons. I'm going to apply ^ these changes and then I'll let y'all know and this thread can be closed. Then time to work on the scaling ramifications thread lol.
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