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Xu Jingming Update 6 - End of Evolution - Low 1A/1-A

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True but thats just another backing for his tier. His tier is based on having stronger force than the entire spacetime of the universe.

Multi-Solar System level, likely Universe level+ (With the Heart Realm, he can use its power to create a "tangible" world within the current universe to restrain and suppress[4] his targets - the force of this world being countless times sturdier and stable than the entire lower-dimensional spacetime
 
I kind of forgot about this, so might as well continue.

The AP for Cosmic Legend and Eternal are fine. For Half-Step Third Realm, though, wouldn't he be Low 1-C normally? Considering he can already destroy universes before hand (3D + 1D of time), and the fact he occupies a 4th dimension of space, then it would be 4D + 1D of time. Though I'm not dimension savvy so I'm not sure 100% sure.

The other APs are fine, and I already talked about UEs.

Now, for speed, they are all fine, and as for Eternals, I'm not even sure how you'd take the Miniature Universe into account, and I think we generally just classify it as Pocket-Reality Manip, rather than smth related to speed or anything like that. For Half-Step, changes seem fine.

Range, well, if Half-Step do qualify for Low 1-C normally, then it should just be Low Complex, otherwise everything is fine.

Everything else seems fine.

For abilities, I skimmed through it and focused mostly on the important ones (Law, Non-duality, etc...), and aside from Plot Manipulation, everything seems fine. For Plot Manipulation, you kind of need to have an actual narrative-esque structure to manipulate, rather than just being able to change everything with your will.

Also, I have seen the translation and the talk about UEs, and I still think they qualify for 1-A, since they are the foundation, above everything, etc...

I'll continue to read the abilities to see if I missed anything, but they generally seem fine, but If I saw something that doesn't seem right, I'll just comment it here. Otherwise, just count me as agreeing to the revision, with the addition of the things I've noted above.
 
Wouldn't that be 3-C because there are alot of super massive blackholes?
No, because it doesn't refer to a part of the universe but the entire lower dimension, thats why I have it put as 3-B, possible Low 2-C.
 
Looking through this (Only the OP. If I missed anything, tell me): I don't think the Ultimate Existences really warrant Low 1-A or 1-A at all. From what I see, they're just stated to be "at the farthest reaches of spacetime," which in the case of this verse, would just include "countless dimensions." It's 1-B at most, based on those scans.

The rest is fine by me. (Though I haven't looked at the sandbox with the abilities yet. That's a lot)
 
Looking through this (Only the OP. If I missed anything, tell me): I don't think the Ultimate Existences really warrant Low 1-A or 1-A at all. From what I see, they're just stated to be "at the farthest reaches of spacetime," which in the case of this verse, would just include "countless dimensions." It's 1-B at most, based on those scans.
Agree with this as well, and the phrase "farthest reaches of spacetime" pretty much just debunks that low 1A and 1A really just mean they’re at the top of spacetime, at the end, not above.
 
So currently, the reasoning for the Low 1-A/1-A tier (before Unqver showed it was a miss-translation), is the following:

(Ultimate Existences powers when compared to Third-Realm High-Dimensional lifeforms are unrivaled and beyond imagination[88] as just a mere piece of paper drawn[46] by them has enough power to pulverize them. Flowers that can rival entire universes[86] in grandeur are mere decorations within his garden. There are stated to be countless higher dimensions[63] with each addition being more complex than the previous one. Ultimate Existences transcended[51] to a higher plane of existence compared to Third Realm Lifeforms - to the farthest reaches of spacetime, all paths of cultivation, of every lifeform. Their laws are imprinted within the Infinite Spacetime as they are the pillars of existence[84], the bedrock of its foundation)
The chinese raw text for the miss-translated part is:


Self-Translated ( @Unqver can you verify and mention if anything is wrong regarding it):



Now, even if it's not mentioning "countless dimensions", we still know there are more dimensions like the 4th, 5th (Third Realm beings), and possibly more but for now let's stop at the mentioned ones.

The Higher Dimension has spatial layers that have not limit[21] and are like its "space" infinite. There exist multiple successions of the River of Spacetime (Timeline)[22]: One for each Universe, one for each Dominion that covers the said Universes, and one for all Dominions that cover the entire Higher Dimension - The Infinite Spacetime. This should work as a backing that going by our standards would count as a higher dimension success just from the first one as a more superior "timeline" exists that has lower "timelines" within it.

Ultimate Existences are stated by a Third Realm being to be unrivaled and beyond imagination[88], and that they "transcend to a higher plane of existence" - "to the farthest reaches of spacetime, all paths of cultivation, of every lifeform". Their laws are imprinted within the Infinite Spacetime as they are the pillars of existence[84], the bedrock of its foundation - meaning UE are the foundation for everything be it lower or higher-dimensions.

From these, I think that Low 1-A or 1-A still can count as UE are the fundamental existence that hold all together (including higher dimensions...you don't need to have it stated to be countless or infinite or any other number to reach such tier, it could go even from a just one universe if there is backing for it).
@Ultima_Reality, well along the thread a few things changed so its my fault I didn't update the the OP. Will do it later after job. If you can give an input on this change I would be greatful.
 
I've edited the OP with the changes regarding the Ultimate Existence tier, so I'll have to ask again if you agree with it. I'll quote the part so you won't have to go to the first page if you don't wish.

Now, even if it's not mentioning "countless dimensions", we still know there are more dimensions like the 4th, 5th (Third Realm beings), and possibly more but for now let's stop at the mentioned ones.

The Higher Dimension has spatial layers that have not limit[21] and are like its "space" infinite. There exist multiple successions of the River of Spacetime (Timeline)[22]: One for each Universe, one for each Dominion that covers the said Universes, and one for all Dominions that cover the entire Higher Dimension - The Infinite Spacetime. This should work as a backing that going by our standards would count as a higher dimension success just from the first one as a more superior "timeline" exists that has lower "timelines" within it.

Ultimate Existences are stated by a Third Realm being to be unrivaled and beyond imagination[88], and that they "transcend to a higher plane of existence" - "to the farthest reaches of spacetime, all paths of cultivation, of every lifeform". Their laws are imprinted within the Infinite Spacetime as they are the pillars of existence[84], the bedrock of its foundation - meaning UE are the foundation for everything be it lower or higher-dimensions.

From these, I think that Low 1-A or 1-A still can count as UE are the fundamental existence that hold all together (including higher dimensions...you don't need to have it stated to be countless or infinite or any other number to reach such tier, it could go even from a just one universe if there is backing for it).

@Setsuna_tenma, @Voidnether
@Rikimarox2, @deonment, @Orioreeem, @Planck69 , @Elizhaa, @Grabbing_dragon
 
Don't think that qualifies as Low 1A. The reason I believe Ultima took the farthest reaches of spacetime is because, if it had stated "all space and time," then it would have been Low 1A, as it would have been on the highest possible dimensionality. Since Low 1A does not always require transcendence to achieve it, and it only mentioned spacetime, not all space and time, then it depended on how many dimensions the verse has.


I want to confirm this myself here.
Due to this
From these, I think that Low 1-A or 1-A still can count as UE are the fundamental existence that hold all together (including higher dimensions...you don't need to have it stated to be countless or infinite or any other number to reach such tier, it could go even from a just one universe if there is backing for it).
It does not work like that .
 
I mean, considering they are the "Pillars" of existence, and are similar to the foundation of them, wouldn't that warrant Low 1-A at least? At least that's what I think, taking into account the whole beyond imagination stuff, farthest reach of existence, etc...

Btw, maybe it would to good to bring the raws to check it, though that's just my suggestion.
 
How is that any different from being the foundation of existence/space-time?
Because they are not the very essence and concept of space-time itself and subject independently of particulars, for them to encompass all possible dimensions.

With your logic anything that is the foundation of space-time is Low 1A when that is not the case
 
Nope, if they were universals, including universals of space, time, and dimensions, that would have mattered.
That logic is just wrong to begin with, as a universal of anything else would still share the nature of the concepts of space and time that could make them 1-A in being wholly independent of reality, which includes their particulars. It's just that with those it's much easier to prove that.

When I asked ultima what his issue with them being low 1-A/1-A compared to another verse I know that has 1-A laws (with no proper law of space mind you), it was, and I quote
unless its moreso that the difference here is the elaboration on what reality exactly is, or the nature of the "law" itself?
rather than anything else
 
I've edited the OP with the changes regarding the Ultimate Existence tier, so I'll have to ask again if you agree with it. I'll quote the part so you won't have to go to the first page if you don't wish.
Yeah, I don't think this really fits the bill for Low 1-A, still. It's not really clear that these "laws" encompass and sustain all conceivable extensions of spacetime, or just the spacetime that actually exists. I'd agree that they would, if among these laws was "The concept of space and time" or something of that like (And this concept subsisted independently of individual spatial and temporal things), but the text gives no clarification as to what they are, or what they do besides act as pillars for spacetime. So, yeah, 1-B is still most proper here, in my eyes.
 
Thanks for replies and sorry for delay from my part.

I see the problem, but would it change anything as one of these 4 Ultimate Existences is spacetime itself - Mother Stream. This is a High-Dimensional being who summoned just a part of it, as its not even a third-realm being.

Spacetime Island Lord looked at Xu Jingming and extended her right hand. Her palm was fair, but it seemed to hide endless spacetime, causing Redmond’s mind and consciousness to sink into it.
Whoosh! Whoosh! Whoosh!
Spacetime Island Lord immediately produced an endless high-dimensional river with guidance from her palm.
It was countless times larger than a cosmic river of spacetime. Even a universe was as tiny as gravel in front of it.
This is the Mother Stream! It nurtures the end of all cosmic spacetime. Redmond watched in amazement.
He knew that the universe didn’t exist a long, long time ago! The Mother Stream later came into existence, giving birth to universes and resulting in the existence of a concept known as a universe. This also completely changed the cultivation path of all high-dimensional lifeforms.
Chapter 594

While another Ultimate, represent the Abyss just like how Xu Jingming is the Heart Realm.

I used to view the Abyss with prejudice and considered it sinful. It’s incredibly chaotic, and countless lunatics dwell here. Xu Jingming watched as two deranged Abyssal mutated beasts charged toward him. As they advanced, the beasts ignited with black lotus flames and disintegrated into ashes.
But in reality, the Abyss signifies an absence of laws. Its operating principles are that there are no principles, and it accommodates all possibilities! Xu Jingming realized that even those with good intentions and light in their hearts, like Eternal Tower Master, could still comprehend the Abyssal path.
The rules of each Abyssal space are determined by the corresponding layer’s Abyss Sovereign.
If an Abyss Sovereign so chooses, they can make their layer beautiful and filled with goodness.
Xu Jingming pondered. Countless layers of Abyssal space represent endless possibilities.
Chapter 763

Which is mentioned later that is just a projection of the true Abyss through all spacetimes. Where it even mentions to accomodate all possible principles.

Is this a super-miniature Abyss? At a single glance, Xu Jingming discerned the intricate model of the ancient tree within the sphere. Countless branches were tightly interwoven, with many hidden from view, defying prying eyes.
Xu Jingming remained unaware of the true vastness and intricacies of the Abyss.
The Abyss permeated countless spacetimes. All that Xu Jingming had witnessed thus far was a mere projection of the Abyss in this particular spacetime.
Chapter 787

And here is Xu Jingming, who is again stated to transcend all spacetimes at his level. Don't forget that there exist high-dimensions bellow his realm, so these should count too.

Within the vast expanse of an endless and towering palace, an unseen presence exerted its silent influence across every timeline, spacetime, and living being.
Inside one of the palace halls, a colossal figure occupied a throne, positioned atop a dais. With black hair and lurid skin, he possessed the appearance of a pure human.
Resting his chin in his right hand, he closed his eyes, seemingly lost in slumber.
His breaths were gentle, yet the ripples they generated reverberated throughout all timelines and the Heart Realm, transcending the boundaries of spacetime. The source of the chaotic aura that permeated the Heart Realm emanated from the rhythmic essence of this formless aura.
Chapter 806

When a being reaches this realm - Ultimate, their laws become one with these of the Infinite Spacetime, becoming the foundation of them.

The laws of the Heart Realm seamlessly merged with the infinite spacetime, benefiting its circulation. Henceforth, Xu Jingming’s laws became an integral part of the fundamental laws of infinite spacetime.
If his laws could merge with the laws of infinite spacetime, he would become the bedrock of its existence.
The four Ultimate beings are also the cornerstones and pillars of infinite spacetime. Our presence can render infinite spacetime more flawless, stable, and powerful. Xu Jingming understood this fact very well.
Chapter 812

Wouldn't this help the argument? As it shows that an Ultimate Existence can and is above all possible principles which should fit for the concept of space time.

If not then I have no other quote to help this case.

If its just 1-B then how high would it be within it based on your guys opinion?
 
"Everything dies. In time, even stars threads burn out." - Matthew Stover
 
Once a bump, always a bump.

I've forget to bump the thread... been playing Monster Hunter Wilds Beta and Kingdom Come Deliverance 1.
 
I think Low 1-A is still possible, especially after the scans sent, since it seems one of the 4 dudes are responsible for creating the concept of a universe/space-time (albeit it could be metaphorical of not creating a concept, but just a universe), among the other stuff. They honestly seem like they are the reason space-time exists.

Wouldn't 1-B, likely/possibly Low 1-A be possible? Regardless, I'm still in agreement with likely Low 1-A.
 
I don't have a problem with At least 1-B, likely Low 1-A, if that's agreed upon.

It does mention on how she created the concept of space-time and its not a metaphorical at their level when beings two realms bellow can create their own universes. Or how Xu Jingming got flowers with more grandeur than entire universes.
 
Thanks for replies and sorry for delay from my part.

I see the problem, but would it change anything as one of these 4 Ultimate Existences is spacetime itself - Mother Stream. This is a High-Dimensional being who summoned just a part of it, as its not even a third-realm being.


Chapter 594

While another Ultimate, represent the Abyss just like how Xu Jingming is the Heart Realm.


Chapter 763

Which is mentioned later that is just a projection of the true Abyss through all spacetimes. Where it even mentions to accomodate all possible principles.


Chapter 787

And here is Xu Jingming, who is again stated to transcend all spacetimes at his level. Don't forget that there exist high-dimensions bellow his realm, so these should count too.


Chapter 806

When a being reaches this realm - Ultimate, their laws become one with these of the Infinite Spacetime, becoming the foundation of them.


Chapter 812

Wouldn't this help the argument? As it shows that an Ultimate Existence can and is above all possible principles which should fit for the concept of space time.

If not then I have no other quote to help this case.

If its just 1-B then how high would it be within it based on your guys opinion?
@Ultima_Reality , sorry for the ping but these are the only left statements that are new. Can these change anything, if not whats your verdict?
 
Well, bump.

Started working on Rise of Humanity and its shared novels page and already at 80k bytes...feel like the page for shared powers of Dao Gods and above will be 500+k bytes. Lets just say it will be a lot of powers and scans.
 
Zeus, take my bump and give me a response...and my next run of God of War shall be in your name.
 
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Bump.

The Foreigner said, "He believes the Dao lies in change, in transformation. I believe the Dao lies in Unity, in all things returning to the same source. Since words cannot determine victory, naturally, it must be decided by strength."

Su Yun had already calmed his excitement and said humbly but firmly, "I believe it lies in Oneness (一 yī) "

Under the World Tree, the Foreigner smiled and said, "Oneness is Unity (同 tóng). It shows that I am right. All paths lead to the same origin."

The corpse of Emperor Chaos said, "Oneness is Change (易 yì). One gives birth to all things, evolving endlessly."

Su Yun said unhurriedly, "Two seniors, my concept of Oneness is about opposites - positive and negative, left and right, front and back. It's about infinite oneness and as well is the greatest difference. It can be one, it can be all things, it can change endlessly, and it can lead to the same origin by different paths."

"You're dreaming!"

The corpse of Emperor Chaos and the Foreigner spoke in unison, "Wishful thinking!" "Nonsense!" "Words alone mean nothing, let's have a match!"
Peak when characters meet to debate Dao...this is a scene between 3 main characters of Zhai Zhu.

After I finish remaking Zhong Yue's profile I'll start to work on Su Yun....this thread is becoming my journal.
 
One bump a day keeps tiering away.

The so-called Primordial Beginning is the origin of the Great Dao, the ancestor of all paths, encompassing everything. Primordial Beginning is one but can manifest in infinite forms, contain the Nirvana, evolve cause and effect, allow Chaos to give birth to Heaven and Earth, and enable the attaining of Dao through the Primordial Spirit, physical body, and treasures. Primordial Beginning has no distinction between physical body, Great Dao, Dao fruit, Primordial Spirit or magical power. It is ageless and eternal. With a single thought, Heaven opens; with a single thought, Earth extinguishes. With a flick of the finger, infinite creations emerge; with a closure of the hand, Heaven and Earth appear suddenly. Primordial Beginning is the end of the Dao. If one attains it, they can endure countless eons without perishing. The so-called Nirvana is just insignificant.
This realm involves cultivating all possible and impossible Great Dao, known and unknown, existing and non-existing, past, present, and future, until reaching the ultimate end of the Great Dao and attaining the position of Primordial Beginning.
- Highest realm of the Zhai Zhu's Chaos Sea Verse, only one has reached it. Continuing with my journal till Ultima descends to grant me a serendipitous preaching like Hongjun, the spokeman of the Heavenly Dao preaching to all myriad lifeforms.
 
Bump to keep the tradition alive.

Chaos is invisible and formless, like a living being but not a living being, like air but not air, like matter but not matter, like consciousness but not consciousness.

Chaos holds everything, naturalizes everything, and evolves everything, and everything comes from Chaos.

If you want to shape Chaos, you need great wisdom, power and ability, so to speak, to open up the Heavens and the Earth, to evolve Chaos into Heaven and Earth, to separate the clear and turbid, to evolve Yin and Yang, to establish the Five Elements, to open up the Six Paths, to split Chaos, otherwise, not to mention to open up Chaos, I am afraid that even a trace would be left behind!
From Rise of Humanity. At the realm of 'End of a Dao', a Dao God can use a specific Dao that they prefere to create any and all other Daos like using Fire Dao to create this exact Chaos Dao through a Validation of using it as the source and then evolve all states (Chaos - Beginning - Wuji - Taiyi - Samsara - Karma - Fate/Calamity - Slaughter (process of how to bring the next one) - Nirvana and then once again Chaos). Basically, anything can be used as a foundation because Chaos is just the state that the Great Dao is in that moment...so the entire shared verse was just in the state of Chaos (at the moment the novels took place) and thats why its named Chaos Sea.

#Journal entry 81.
 
Bump, hopefully the last one.


A debate between two Dao Gods on what the correct path to reach the Great Dao:
Walking along this radiant arc, Xu Ying said, "The path is not about standing at the end, overlooking all living beings, nor is it about controlling everything from that pinnacle. It lies in the journey towards the end itself. Just like life, from birth until the moment before death, looking back on the road traversed—that is the Dao."

Moved, Old Ancestor Hongshan gazed down at the path beneath his feet.

"The path has righteousness and wickedness, detours and forks, illusions and truths," Xu Ying continued. "What defines the path is knowing and acting accordingly; knowledge without action is illusion, while action without understanding is delusion!"

Xu Ying looked deeply into Hongshan's eyes with unwavering sincerity. "Dao Brother," he said, "the path you've walked to its end has already veered onto an evil and misguided course, driven by delusional desires. In pursuit of what you call the True Grand Dao, you defy the Human Dao, destroy universes one after another, annihilating all life, and justify it as repaying karma. Yet, we too are part of this tapestry of life! If the existence of all life is meaningless, why would the Chaos Sea give birth to universes, spiritual roots, these wondrous beings, including you and me?"

Old Ancestor Hongshan smiled. "Xu Ying, your assertion that the path mirrors our life journey indeed provokes deep reflection. Since our current path will not lead to success, how do you propose we perceive the true nature of the Great Dao?"

"I believe we should comprehend the Innate through the Acquired," Xu Ying replied. "All Innate Great Daos have been observed and understood by post-natal beings, but they are not the genuine Daos themselves. Therefore, let us cultivate the Acquired, using the Acquired to grasp the Innate. This way, every Dao known to humanity becomes the Acquired Great Dao. For instance, among the Nine Innate Daos, such as Void or Shamanic Dao, along with arts like music, chess, calligraphy, and painting—all these were initiated by humans and thus belong to the realm of the Acquired."

Old Ancestor Hongshan frowned and interrupted him, "What you're saying is utterly baseless. Fellow Daoist Xu, I understand the concept behind the Acquired Great Daos you speak of. However, there are infinite forms of Great Daos. Just within the Chaos Sea alone, the variations are incalculable, let alone considering the vastness of the Great Void. When will you ever witness all the Acquired Great Daos?"

Xu Ying patiently explained, "I don't need to witness all the Acquired Great Daos. My goal is to reach their culmination and comprehend a principle that can evidence any Acquired Great Dao. This principle, I call 'Innate,' while you refer to it as the 'Great Dao of Truth.'"

"Absurd," Old Ancestor Hongshan shook his head, dismissing Xu Ying's notion. "Your so-called 'Innate' is simply too absurd, vague, and elusive. But the Chaos Sea exists undeniably! The Chaos Sea represents the chaotic state of the Great Daos. By peeling away this chaos, one can perceive the true essence of the Great Dao. That is the correct path to witnessing the genuine nature of the Great Dao!"
 
Bump.

Another meeting between 3 main characters. Su Yun, Qin Mu and Chaos Emperor.
"I traversed the Great Void and found several universes separated by it. In one of these universes, I encountered a person."

The voice went on, "At first sight, I knew he was the answer I sought. From him, I learned much and found my answers. Then, I began my return journey. Passing by here, I decided to visit this fellow Daoist."

Emperor Chaos's voice rang out, filled with delight. "Dao Brother, what answer have you found? Might you share it?"

The figure fell silent for a moment. Su Yun, also listening intently, had unknowingly approached the place where they were conversing.

Then, the voice spoke again. "Primordial Beginning."

As soon as this Dao Speech was uttered, Su Yun felt his own Great Dao tremble. The scene before his eyes exploded into a kaleidoscope of possibilities. The millions of Great Daos he had learned, known, and deduced whirled and blossomed, unleashing an unparalleled cacophony of Dao Sounds!

All Great Daos simultaneously revealed their endpoints to him!

Every Great Dao led to the ultimate realm, yet each was also merely a part of that same ultimate realm!

The myriad Great Daos extended to their ends, converging at a hazy, indistinct figure!

The Dao Sounds resonating within Su Yun's mind left him dizzy and disoriented. The sight before his eyes was even more astonishing: all the Great Daos he mastered, including those of Primordial Genesis manifested their endpoints, becoming part of that very figure!

Su Yun's mouth went dry. The words "Primordial Beginning" spoken by the figure in the Chaos Hall brought him unparalleled shock, revealing to him the endpoint of the Dao of Primordial Genesis!

Even as his Dao Mastery soared, granting him enlightenment of numerous new Great Daos, the endpoints of these new Daos too formed part of that figure!
His gaze fell upon Su Yun, a mix of surprise, happiness, and satisfaction evident in his smile. "Primordial Genesis," he said.

At this word, Su Yun saw visions of various phenomena unfolding at the end of the Primordial Genesis Great Dao. Yet, he regretted not catching a glimpse of the figure known as "Primordial Beginning" who stood steadfast at the very end of the Great Dao.

The young man inclined his head slightly, "You've received my teacher's legacy, yet you've gone beyond his reach. Junior Brother, if our teacher could see you now, he would surely be overjoyed."

Taken aback, Su Yun bowed in return.

As the young man spoke of his teacher, an awe-inspiring scene involuntarily unfurled before Su Yun's eyes: at the bank of the Chaos Sea, stood the Hongmeng Palace. Within it, an ancient tree, and beneath that tree, a set of withered bones.

Hongmeng (Primordial Genesis) may live on, but the Dao heart has long perished.

As Su Yun rose, the peculiar young man had already stepped into the Chaos Sea, vanishing without a trace.

Feeling a sense of loss, Su Yun composed himself and walked towards Emperor Chaos.

Emperor Chaos's eyes were wide, his gaze still clouded by the mention of "Primordial Beginning," clearly not yet having fully processed those words.

Clearly, when the young man uttered "Primordial Beginning" he had presented to Emperor Chaos a vision of the end of the Chaos Great Dao!

One can only imagine the shock this revelation brought to Emperor Chaos!

But even more astounding was the figure he beheld at the very end of the Chaos Dao!

After a long while, Emperor Chaos finally shook off his stupefied state and spoke, his voice hoarse: "Heaven beyond heaven, truth beyond truth...
 
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