Byakuya Togami Reactions Downgrade

[Queen_Dasania]

Byakuya Togami is listed as having Relativistic+ Reactions on his page, but I don't believe this to be the case. The reasoning for the rating is "Should be the same as Komaru Naegi and Guard Monokuma Units who could react to shots from the Hacking Gun". Checking the scene this is likely referring to, we do see Byakuya shoot a monokuma unit that is moving to attack Komaru before she does. However, there are a few reasons that I don't believe this proves his reactions to be faster than Komaru's, or the unit's. To start with, Komaru clearly wasn't prepared to shoot whatsoever. She wasn't even in position to shoot, rather cowering in fear, which makes sense for a girl who's lived an ordinary life. She wasn't prepared for combat, he was. So he didn't react faster than her, he just reacted while she simply didn't. Next, monomuka units only move at superhuman speed. So Byakuya shooting one that's jumping at him just proves he has superhuman reactions, not that he has Relativistic+ reactions.

I have one other thing I'd like to bring up to prove my case. Hina was able to speed blitz Byakuya by slapping him before he could react. The anime version gives another perspective, but can't be seen in the US, and I unfortunately can't find a better link showing it. Luckily, the game itself makes it clear enough in my opinion. He fails to react to Hina here. If he had Relativistic reactions, he should've been able to easily block or dodge that, unless you want to argue that Hina is Relativistic+ (Which would require much more revisions across the verse).

You could also argue that Hina also has Superhuman speed with Relativistic reactions, but it makes more sense to downgrade Byakuya in my opinion.

 

[Queen_Dasania]

Bump

 

[Thebadtimetrio32]

Hm... doesn't Hina fight even to Juzo? While Juzo couldn't use his talent, he has no reason to be holding back speed here especially when he has a goal, to get to Makoto, so idk if that's an anti feat for Byakuya, Hina is just like that. Idk enough about UDG to comment although doesn't he fight Monokuma units for a lil bit? I remember he gets captured so idk.

 

[Queen_Dasania]

Hm... doesn't Hina fight even to Juzo? While Juzo couldn't use his talent, he has no reason to be holding back speed here especially when he has a goal, to get to Makoto, so idk if that's an anti feat for Byakuya, Hina is just like that. Idk enough about UDG to comment although doesn't he fight Monokuma units for a lil bit? I remember he gets captured so idk.

Hina is currently listed as Superhuman with Hypersonic+ reactions. Byakuya is listed as Superhuman with Relativistic+ reactions.

Juzo is listed as Hypersonic+ with Relativistic+ reactions. Monokuma units are listed as Superhuman with Relativistic+ reactions.

You're right that Hina went up against Juzo. She's listed as Superhuman with Hypersonic+ reactions because she can briefly put up against Juzo, but it's argued that she didn't do it for long.

As I said, Byakuya really just shot a Monokuma Unit that was moving to attack him.

Hina has speed blitzed Byakuya

I think, Hina is certainly faster than Byakuya all around. I'm uncertain about Byakuya having Relativistic+ reactions, but if you want to argue he reacted faster than the Monokuma Unit, then I think we should move Hina to at least Superhuman with Relativistic+ reactions

 

[Thebadtimetrio32]

I could be wrong but wasn’t part of their fight off screen? (Juzo vs Aoi), I don’t believe Aoi showed any signs of potentially being overwhelmed anytime soon, so we really could upgrade Aoi to rela+ imo. Idk about Byakuya tho.

 

[Queen_Dasania]

I could be wrong but wasn’t part of their fight off screen? (Juzo vs Aoi), I don’t believe Aoi showed any signs of potentially being overwhelmed anytime soon, so we really could upgrade Aoi to rela+ imo. Idk about Byakuya tho.

Yeah, that is true! Most fights in the danganronpa anime happened offscreen, as they didn't want it to take away from the story. In terms of of just full Relativistic+ speed, that would make this a much bigger revision, as that would mean there's a lot more characters that would need to be upgraded to that. But I could see it being the case, honestly

 

[Thebadtimetrio32]

I’ll be down to help that revision. I noticed no one responded to this thread so I took a look, but I certainly think Aoi tiers should be there yea.

 

[Queen_Dasania]

I’ll be down to help that revision. I noticed no one responded to this thread so I took a look, but I certainly think Aoi tiers should be there yea.

Ok! So you think Byakuya stays the same, and Hina should go to Relativistic+? If that is the case, the multi City Block tiers like Juzo and Peko, and the Large Town tiers like Sakura and Mukuro should also scale

 

[Thebadtimetrio32]

Idk about Byakuya since you can argue that he was attacking Monokumas at a distance, thus they would need to travel to get close to him. We know that Byakuya has outsped Monokumas with the gun, in fact isn’t that the first showing of it? So idk if you can directly compare their reactions to Byakuya, however Aoi is 100% fine and so is anyone whose on her tier. Did Peko, Mukuro and Sakura already not have rela+ reactions or?

 

[Queen_Dasania]

Idk about Byakuya since you can argue that he was attacking Monokumas at a distance, thus they would need to travel to get close to him. We know that Byakuya has outsped Monokumas with the gun, in fact isn’t that the first showing of it? So idk if you can directly compare their reactions to Byakuya, however Aoi is 100% fine and so is anyone whose on her tier. Did Peko, Mukuro and Sakura already not have rela+ reactions or?

They do have those reactions. I thought you just meant outright Relativistic+ speed. But if we're just doing reactions, then that's easier to prove. I think I want to find a video of the Hina vs Juzo fight to analyze that better. I know Hina used to scaled to him completely, until it was just decided to scale her reaction speed to his combat speed

 

[Queen_Dasania]

Idk about Byakuya since you can argue that he was attacking Monokumas at a distance, thus they would need to travel to get close to him. We know that Byakuya has outsped Monokumas with the gun, in fact isn’t that the first showing of it? So idk if you can directly compare their reactions to Byakuya, however Aoi is 100% fine and so is anyone whose on her tier. Did Peko, Mukuro and Sakura already not have rela+ reactions or?

Ok. So, I can't find any clips on YouTube. However, I went back to watch it myself. So they both grab weapons. She mocks him for needed a weapon against her. He says he doesn't want to waste his fists on her. They begin attacking and doge each other. No one's attacks actually land. It cuts away to a few other scenes. We cut back. He tries to attack her, misses, ans his weapon gets embedded in the ground. She hits her weapon, which is forked, over his, making it even more trapped. He shows frustration. Then Seiko and Gekkokahara crash into the room, and Hina and Makoto escape

What I'll say; they never hit each other. Due to this, I agree with the current strength scaling. Hina doesn't scale to Juzo. And she even seems desperate to escape him. This could be due to strength difference, but also just because it's stupid to fight when you don't need to

Speed wise, she actually seemed to be the faster opponent of the two. And I think the fight was longer than the current rating would have you to believe. And she pinned his weapon, not vice versa. Yes, he couldn't use his fists, which is the form of combat he has training in, but that's not really a speed disadvantage. As you said, there was no reason for him to hold back. And given that she's clearly far faster than the average danganronpa character, she should definitely be Hypersonic+ with Relativistic+ reactions

 

[Queen_Dasania]

Idk about Byakuya since you can argue that he was attacking Monokumas at a distance, thus they would need to travel to get close to him. We know that Byakuya has outsped Monokumas with the gun, in fact isn’t that the first showing of it? So idk if you can directly compare their reactions to Byakuya, however Aoi is 100% fine and so is anyone whose on her tier. Did Peko, Mukuro and Sakura already not have rela+ reactions or?

Should I make a new thread, or just revise this one? Also, is there anything you would like to add?

 

[Thebadtimetrio32]

I kinda figured that Juzo had her beat in AP, although we know that Aoi is definitely not a low tier in AP but any means. She could maybbeeeeee downscale tho? You’d think that if she was so much inferior she would’ve instantly been overpowered.

 

[Queen_Dasania]

I kinda figured that Juzo had her beat in AP, although we know that Aoi is definitely not a low tier in AP but any means. She could maybbeeeeee downscale tho? You’d think that if she was so much inferior she would’ve instantly been overpowered.

She definitely is one of the stronger ones. Makoto even said he didn't want to train with her and Sakura because he wouldn't be able to keep up with them. We know, as the current rating says, her lifting Strength is at least Athletic Human

However, as for downscaling from Juzo. The issue is that we never see any of their blows against each other actually land. That alone proves they're right in the same ballpark, meaning she should scale to his speed. And it's a good Stamina feat to her. But other than that, it's hard to even make her downscale from him. She isn't instantly overpowered because he simply can't hit her. The closest I'd get to her downscaling to him in that fight is that she pins his weapon to the ground. But I think he already got his own weapon stuck by embedding it in the ground, she just made that worse for him by also embedding her weapon in the ground

In terms of ap, you could actually argue that everyone scales to the high tiers since Hiro could knock out Sakura with a bottle (a few other reason too). But I think that's a much more complicated revision, and since I know some big ones are already coming soon, I'm gonna wait before even thinking of applying that. Changing Byakuya and Hina's speed is one that is pretty straightforward

 

[Thebadtimetrio32]

I’m fine with not addressing AP, then. Byakuya should get downgraded and Hina should get upgraded. That’s my TL;DR

 

[Queen_Dasania]

I’m fine with not addressing AP, then. Byakuya should get downgraded and Hina should get upgraded. That’s my TL;DR

Alright! Do you think I should just update this thread, or make a new one stating both in the title?

 

[Thebadtimetrio32]

Uhhhhh you could try making a new thread addressing Aoi and Byakuya, and try to have more people participate this time