Elsa vs Doma (0-1-1)

[Catbowtie]

Elsa Versus Doma​

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Elsa scales to 87.017 kilotons of TNT w/abilities, Island Level with ED and Doma scales to Building level+ (At the minimum), 70.1 Tons with Water Lily Bodhisattva​

• Equalized Speed (Doma moves down from Massively Hypersonic to Superhuman)
  
  
• The Sun doesn't kill/hurt Doma Edit: The location is eternal nighttime.
  
  
• Starting Distance is 4 Kilometers (From Elsa's powers)
  
  
• Both in-character

Location:​

Elsa
Doma	@Catbowtie
Inconclusive	@Fallen_Angelicx

 

[Catbowtie]

Bump.

 

[Catbowtie]

Bump.

 

[Catbowtie]

Bump

 

[Catbowtie]

Bump

 

[Catbowtie]

Bump

 

[Catbowtie]

Bump

 

[Catbowtie]

Bump.

 

[Cimafranca133]

The Sun doesn't kill/hurt Doma

I'm not sure you can do that since you're essentially removing Douma's main weakness. I think it's better if you made the setting forever night time.

 

[Catbowtie]

Isn't that the same thing?

 

[Cimafranca133]

Isn't that the same thing?

Not really, one is removing Douma's sun weakness while the other is keeping said weakness

 

[Catbowtie]

Changed then.

 

[Catbowtie]

Bump

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

This is an interesting matchup. I could make arguments for either side rn. Gimme a few seconds to minutes.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

I believe Elsa takes this comfortably using her ranged and moblizing abilities. Her ice as we know have 87 kilotons worth of AP and her durability also scales to this value. As such, nothing doma throws at her will harm her in the slighest, not even his BDA or his Water Lily. Elsa can defeat doma by covering the floor around them with ice that'll cover doma's body and freeze his body turning him into a sculpture then breaking it afterwards, said ability has tens of meters up to kilometer range so doma is not escaping it. She could also just summon the ice structure in the air to cover the battleground or target the area around doma to get to him. Ice Queen FRA until a argument for doma arises.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

All this being taken into consideration, i find it cursed that elsa would be no selling any attack doma throws at her

 

[Catbowtie]

Since you're arguing for Elsa, I'll argue for Doma.

Speed Equalization effects combat speed, not travel speed. Doma's Massively Hypersonic movement speed is Mach 526.02, being above the calculation of Muichiro slicing 10,000 killer fish in an instant. We have no other solid calculations for Doma other than that. Doma crosses the 4 Kilometer Starting Distance in literal instant speed because Mach 526.02 can pass 180 Kilometers in a second. Doma's Battle Spirit, Limited Fear Manipulation & Paralysis Inducement immediately goes off because it's a passive Overwhelming Aura. The only reason this doesn't result in a stomp is because Elsa's Instinctive Action and Emotional Empowerment isn't effected by this.

From here, there's two ways this can be interpreted.​

1) Because of the intense Overwhelming Aura Doma hits Elsa with, the power generated from her Emotional Empowerment may either kill Doma instantly in combination with her unaffected Instinctive Action because of the sheer Destructive Capacity difference (resulting in a win for Elsa), or result in a near-death moment which will then cause Doma to take the fight seriously. I'm sure a theoretical serious Doma would start with Blood Demon Art spam, throwing absolutely everything he can at Elsa to kill her since he did the exact same in his fight against Inosuke and Kanao when he was near death. Doma would notice her No-Selling his attacks and deduce that he can't hurt her with his attacks. Elsa will still be paralyzed because it's a passive and constant Overwhelming Aura coming from Doma. At this point it's just down to how good Elsa's Instinctive Action ice powers are. Doma could get killed here or not, but I'd say that he'd realize that Elsa's Ice Manipulation is Instinctive rather than controlled and find a way around it. At some point Doma would opt to use his Absorption (Which is a way he prefers to kill humans, so he may even start with this as a first attack) or use Limited Corruption to take the win.

2) Elsa's Emotional Empowerment wouldn't apply here, and the same situation happens in Point 1 minus a serious Doma. An unserious Doma may grab and absorb Elsa right off the bat because he really likes to do that to women.

Too Long Didn't Read​

Doma's win condition is hitting Elsa with his Overwhelming Aura Paralysis Inducement and then using his Absorption the moment he gets the opportunity to.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Speed Equalization effects combat speed, not travel speed. Doma's Massively Hypersonic movement speed is Mach 526.02, being above the calculation of Muichiro slicing 10,000 killer fish in an instant. We have no other solid calculations for Doma other than that. Doma crosses the 4 Kilometer Starting Distance in literal instant speed because Mach 526.02 can pass 180 Kilometers in a second. Doma's Battle Spirit, Limited Fear Manipulation & Paralysis Inducement immediately goes off because it's a passive Overwhelming Aura. The only reason this doesn't result in a stomp is because Elsa's Instinctive Action and Emotional Empowerment isn't effected by this.

Um on here iirc, your combat speed is faster than ur travel speed so if speed is equalized. Everything gets lowered ultimately.

Because of the intense Overwhelming Aura Doma hits Elsa with, the power generated from her Emotional Empowerment may either kill Doma instantly in combination with her unaffected Instinctive Action because of the sheer Destructive Capacity difference (resulting in a win for Elsa), or result in a near-death moment which will then cause Doma to take the fight seriously.

She'll turn the guy into a statue the moment she realizes he can regenerate her attacks, or rather her IA will. That will be ggs for doma, and he'll easily be hit seeing elsa's range and AP.

I'm sure a theoretical serious Doma would start with Blood Demon Art spam, throwing absolutely everything he can at Elsa to kill her since he did the exact same in his fight against Inosuke and Kanao when he was near death

If he manages to hit her ice after his attacks get blocked. It'll trigger this;

• Vibration Manipulation (Attacking Elsa's ice will result in a shockwave being created to knock back opponents[1])

This will likely happen as elsa's IA will kick in to defend her and 8-C+ up to 7-C shockwaves will decimate doma constantly giving him almost no way to use offensive attacks against elsa. Iirc demons regeneration slow down the more they take attacks that shred their durability, right? Doma is in a bad spot here.

Doma would notice her No-Selling his attacks and deduce that he can't hurt her with his attacks.

As stated above, his attacks are more or less futile, they'll be directed back at him. Elsa also has danmaku of ice barrage that apparently go up to millions, sending those at doma would kinda momentarily incacipate the guy as he's gonna have to regen attacks that atomize his body.

Elsa will still be paralyzed because it's a passive and constant Overwhelming Aura coming from Doma

That'd be bad for doma. Her IA is gonna go off the charts and blast doma with everything she has. Most likely triggering her ED as she'd be extremely hurt and in alot of pain from his battle spirit as it causes internal bleeding. That would end even worse for doma, its gonna cover the land a kilometers stretch in a blizzard that freezes anything it touches.

At this point it's just down to how good Elsa's Instinctive Action ice powers are

Island level freeze storm.... doma isnt gonna laugh this one off at all.

Doma could get killed here or not, but I'd say that he'd realize that Elsa's Ice Manipulation is Instinctive rather than controlled and find a way around it.

Elsa would first realize that doma regenerates to each and every of her attacks. This wouldnt be hard either, one AOE attack and she'd realize this effect. For doma to have the need to contuiously fight and throw attacks at elsa to finally take her seriously isnt happening before elsa uses a slight attack on doma. Also elsa as the show goes on and even in her second movie shows that elsa has lost her fear of her powers (which started the IA shenanigans as she couldnt control her powers) and now controls them at will. Even the profile says such.

At some point Doma would opt to use his Absorption (Which is a way he prefers to kill humans, so he may even start with this as a first attack) or use Limited Corruption to take the win.

He would need to get close to elsa to use those abilities. Getting close to elsa would mean repeated death and possibly freeze ggs for doma. This wouldnt be an alternative, he would need to kill her from a ranged perspective.

Elsa's Emotional Empowerment wouldn't apply here, and the same situation happens in Point 1 minus a serious Doma. An unserious Doma may grab and absorb Elsa right off the bat because he really likes to do that to women.

It would. The passive aura doma emits slowly eats away her stamina and injuires her from the inside. He also wouldnt be able to just grab elsa. Ofc if he's willing to become porridge then that's fine, there's alot of things elsa has in her arsenal to keep doma away and many attacks that range taps him.

Doma's win condition is hitting Elsa with his Overwhelming Aura Paralysis Inducement and then using his Absorption the moment he gets the opportunity to.

Elsa's win condition remains the same. Using range, ap and her intuition to defeat doma. She cant kill doma as is even with her one shotting, paste making capabilities, but as she realizes doma regenerates from the attacks that mush him then she'll just freeze him to death. If she panics from the pain she feels then island level snowstorm ggs. Doma also cant get close to elsa as she has IA and range on her side to snipe him with telekinesis.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

• Enhanced Ice and Snow Manipulation (Her powers could overpower a wind spirit's powers[2] and can instantly put out magical fire[2]. She can force already existing ice to disperse into hundreds of pieces with a gesture[2]. She is able to move and manipulate vast amounts of snow[2])

What's doma's plan after elsa disperses his ice attacks after she sees that he uses ice powers? Not like they'll harm her to begin with (they'll be nuh uh'd back to doma) but elsa could literally dispell any ice attack doma uses. Rendering most of doma's arsenal useless now.

 

[Catbowtie]

Um on here iirc, your combat speed is faster than ur travel speed so if speed is equalized. Everything gets lowered ultimately.

I don't know where the Speed Equalization rules are LOL

She'll turn the guy into a statue the moment she realizes he can regenerate her attacks, or rather her IA will. That will be ggs for doma, and he'll easily be hit seeing elsa's range and AP.

Are you talking about her Durability Negation? Doma could absolutely use his Body Control to neutralize this and then regenerate the potential damage.

It'll trigger this;

Vibration Manipulation looks to be a little inconsistent in it's applications. In this scene an arrow hits her ice but the Vibration Manipulation doesn't get triggered, so it seems to be limited to just melee attacks.

Elsa also has danmaku of ice barrage that apparently go up to millions, sending those at doma would kinda momentarily incacipate the guy as he's gonna have to regen attacks that atomize his body.

M-m-millions?!?!?! I concede on this point.

That'd be bad for doma. Her IA is gonna go off the charts and blast doma with everything she has. Most likely triggering her ED as she'd be extremely hurt and in alot of pain from his battle spirit as it causes internal bleeding. That would end even worse for doma, its gonna cover the land a kilometers stretch in a blizzard that freezes anything it touches.

Honestly knowing Doma he might genuinely fumble the ball to kill Elsa before her Environmental Destruction and IA (I don't know what this stands for) One-Shot slam him, but if he immediately goes for Absorption right after Paralysis Inducement then that would be a win for Doma.

Island level freeze storm.... doma isnt gonna laugh this one off at all.

Depends if the AP is high enough to completely obliterate Doma past the level of High-Mid Regeneration. Maybe if he like, plucked off a finger and left it somewhere?

Elsa would first realize that doma regenerates to each and every of her attacks.

Elsa wouldn't even be able to hit Doma due to his massive skill gap between him and Elsa. Doma fought Akaza and won, considers Akaza a non-threat, and has been fighting soldiers specifically meant to kill his kind with ease.

This wouldnt be hard either, one AOE attack and she'd realize this effect.

Doma gets serious because he realizes that Elsa has a crazy Destructive Capacity gap between her and him.

slight attack on doma.

He dodges.

Also elsa as the show goes on and even in her second movie shows that elsa has lost her fear of her powers (which started the IA shenanigans as she couldnt control her powers) and now controls them at will. Even the profile says such.

I don't know what this means to say. I guess I know?

This wouldnt be an alternative, he would need to kill her from a ranged perspective.

Doma In-Character will always close the game into melee range unless he's severely injured, then use Water Lily Bodhisattva.

there's alot of things elsa has in her arsenal to keep doma away and many attacks that range taps him.

Unless the Island Level Environmental Destruction or the millions of projectiles Danmaku comes out, Doma is dodging all attacks with ease because of experience/skill. Doma could just...find a way around Elsa's Instinctive Reaction. He's fought an Instinctive Reaction user (Akaza again!) and he would know what to expect from Elsa once he figures out she is using IR.

she'll just freeze him to death.

Doma isn't getting frozen to death because he would just heal the damage. Are you saying that Elsa would Incapacitate Doma with her Ice and Snow manipulation? That's a valid win condition but I don't see Doma letting himself have his body be slowly frozen. If you are saying she'd do the same thing she did to Anna, Doma would handle that with his Body Control or High-Mid Regeneration by ripping out his brain possibly? Abandoning his body and regenerating a brand new one? Whatever solution he comes up with.

Using range, ap and her intuition to defeat doma.

AP absolutely is a problem for Doma, but I don't think she can out-"intuition" a person who's fought multiple soldiers and two Hashira which are monsters in their own right. Doma was able to quickly figure out Kanao's abilities in a brief brawl. I can see him doing the same exact thing to Elsa especially with her motif being oh-so-telling.

If she panics from the pain she feels then island level snowstorm ggs

Island Level is absolutely Ggs for Doma. I concede on this point.

Doma also cant get close to elsa as she has IA and range on her side to snipe him with telekinesis.

What is IA?

What's doma's plan after elsa disperses his ice attacks after she sees that he uses ice powers? Not like they'll harm her to begin with (they'll be nuh uh'd back to doma) but elsa could literally dispell any ice attack doma uses. Rendering most of doma's arsenal useless now.

Doma could still kill her with the necrosis from his Ice Manipulation (I do not know why that ability isn't put down as biological manipulation) Doma'll just not use his Blood Demon Art and look for a different way to kill Elsa (Absorption Win Condition)

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

don't know where the Speed Equalization rules are LOL

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Here. And yes all speed categories are affected in Equalised Speed according to this page. So it's superhuman speed doma across the board.

Are you talking about her Durability Negation? Doma could absolutely use his Body Control to neutralize this and then regenerate the potential damage.

Yes. He'll be covered in ice after seconds the ice just as so touches him. It's not gonna deal damage but as I stated. It'll turn him into a statue and a aggrevated elsa would destroy the statue, ultimately defeating doma for good.

Vibration Manipulation looks to be a little inconsistent in it's applications. In this scene an arrow hits her ice but the Vibration Manipulation doesn't get triggered, so it seems to be limited to just melee attacks.

Doma In-Character will always close the game into melee range

GG. Elsa would find out his regeneration capabilities from this point since that's his starting move. Allowing her to finish him quickly by medusa'ing him.

Honestly knowing Doma he might genuinely fumble the ball to kill Elsa before her Environmental Destruction and IA (I don't know what this stands for) One-Shot slam him, but if he immediately goes for Absorption right after Paralysis Inducement then that would be a win for Doma.

He likely will. Toying with his opponent albeit having the mindset to defeat them would be his downfall here. IA is Instinctive Action. I dont think doma absorbs right off the bad, it isnt in character for him to do and he'd need to defeat elsa by KO or death before he can remotely get close to touch her as her IA and emotional spout is gonna mush him.

Depends if the AP is high enough to completely obliterate Doma past the level of High-Mid Regeneration. Maybe if he like, plucked off a finger and left it somewhere?

Most likely triggering her ED as she'd be extremely hurt and in alot of pain from his battle spirit as it causes internal bleeding. That would end even worse for doma, its gonna cover the land a kilometers stretch in a blizzard that freezes anything it touches.

Like Ive stated, the storm wont AP stomp doma for a win. The storm will simply turn doma into a status just as it did the whole of Arendalle. That would incacipate doma and gives elsa room OR her IA's room to destroy the remains as she'd become near bloodlusted. That's also what happened to most ppl who tried to capture her.

Elsa wouldn't even be able to hit Doma due to his massive skill gap between him and Elsa. Doma fought Akaza and won, considers Akaza a non-threat, and has been fighting soldiers specifically meant to kill his kind with ease.

Umm sure there's a massive skill ga but how will his skill help him deal with attacks that can be sniped at him up to a quantity up to millions and attacks that can cover meters to kilometer in one go? He's not dodging elsa's danmaku without feats of him doing it to something similar in the danmaku area and he's not dodging attacks that cover the whole battle field if elsa so wishes with skill. He is skilled in the department of expierence due to living so long and martial ability from fighting hashiras over the course of 100+ years but never has doma faced someone who can paste him with kilometer stretch attacks that kill him in under a second each hit. If elsa never had range and her attacks were small then id agree with you but she summons giant ice walls and icicles to storm opponents non-stop. Aswell as casual ice rays that could create a giant castle in one go. Doma's skill is no match for elsa's range as she could attack doma from anywhere on the battlefield so she can keep distance as she isnt a cqc fighter unlike doma. Doma's ice attacks also have far less range than elsa and are more so projectiles than elsa's whole projectile straight back to dura neg attacks.

Doma gets serious because he realizes that Elsa has a crazy Destructive Capacity gap between her and him.

I'm sure a theoretical serious Doma would start with Blood Demon Art spam, throwing absolutely everything he can at Elsa to kill her since he did the exact same in his fight against Inosuke and Kanao when he was near death. Doma would notice her No-Selling his attacks and deduce that he can't hurt her with his attacks.

I disagree. Logically, elsa would find out doma can regen from a simple AOE attack first before doma having the need to use his whole arsenal against elsa before he can take her seriously which you yourself stated. I think youre forgetting elsa is stressed and pressured here from doma's battke spirit he's getting non stop attacks being sent at him which would hit him repeatedly as elsa herself has Superhuman Precision on her profile with her IA being ultimately faster.

I don't know what this means to say. I guess I know?

It means elsa and her IA will be on doma's ass at the same time being empowered by her emotions. Aka nonstop danmaku and cover the battlefield in ice that statue's anything it just so touches. Doma cant get around that without some form of flight or levitation which he doesnt have.

Unless the Island Level Environmental Destruction or the millions of projectiles Danmaku comes out, Doma is dodging all attacks with ease because of experience/skill. Doma could just...find a way around Elsa's Instinctive Reaction. He's fought an Instinctive Reaction user (Akaza again!) and he would know what to expect from Elsa once he figures out she is using IR.

Doma cant dodge a blizzard that covers the battlefield nor has he ever had to deal with millions of attacks being sent at him at once so assuming he can dodge allat would kinda be NLF. No one in ds has a feat remotely close to this, i dont think anyone in ds even has danmaku. He cant just find his way around her IA without having a form of ANPR (Analytic Prediction) to read the projectile movement. Akaza's instant reactions are quite different from elsa's. Elsa deploys countless attacks at her opponents when her IA is triggered (Gets faster in emotion spurt which is usuable here as doma's battle spirit) rather than akaza just reacting physically to attacks that get close to him and WITH A SPECIFIC TECHNIQUE. It isnt a passive occurence like elsas, not comparable at all.

Doma isn't getting frozen to death because he would just heal the damage. Are you saying that Elsa would Incapacitate Doma with her Ice and Snow manipulation? That's a valid win condition but I don't see Doma letting himself have his body be slowly frozen. If you are saying she'd do the same thing she did to Anna, Doma would handle that with his Body Control or High-Mid Regeneration by ripping out his brain possibly? Abandoning his body and regenerating a brand new one? Whatever solution he comes up with.

Lemme rephrase "freezing to death", He gets turned into a statue the moment he's exposed to elsa's ice, which can come in alot of forms. From massive storms straight back to microscopic snowflakes. Its very easy for elsa to get doma with barrages of these attacks.

AP absolutely is a problem for Doma, but I don't think she can out-"intuition" a person who's fought multiple soldiers and two Hashira which are monsters in their own right. Doma was able to quickly figure out Kanao's abilities in a brief brawl. I can see him doing the same exact thing to Elsa especially with her motif being oh-so-telling.

She doesnt have to. If i realize my opponent can regenerate from my attacks that shouldve killed him then ill just make my range bigger or microscopic to touch my opponent once. This is what i mean by intuition. Not combat oriented but common sense oriented which helps elsa alot here even without prior knowledge of domas regen. Albeit while keeping distance which elsa can easily do by using this;

• Platform Creation (She is able to create pillars out of ice for her to step on[2])

Doma has no answer when elsa decides to walk on air and blast him from there.

Doma could still kill her with the necrosis from his Ice Manipulation (I do not know why that ability isn't put down as biological manipulation) Doma'll just not use his Blood Demon Art and look for a different way to kill Elsa (Absorption Win Condition)

Elsa resist ice manipulation, as well as her IA can block any attack doma throws at her.

In all, domas wincons include doma getting close to elsa which isnt happening due to elsa's IA and precision and all those attacks are gonna atomize him and would give her way to turn him into a statue. Skill wont help doma to dodge millions of attacks at once (he's never done this so assuming he can from the years he's lived is NLF), nor can skill help him dodge attacks that cover the whole battlefield.

 

[Catbowtie]

Here. And yes all speed categories are affected in Equalised Speed according to this page. So it's superhuman speed doma across the board.

I'm gonna have to change the range then. Superhuman speed Doma is NOT getting to Elsa before he gets One Shot.

Yes. He'll be covered in ice after seconds the ice just as so touches him. It's not gonna deal damage but as I stated. It'll turn him into a statue and a aggrevated elsa would destroy the statue, ultimately defeating doma for good.

Doma can regenerate from that. Blood is still in the body when you are frozen and his High-Mid Regeneration allows him to regenerate when being "blown to pieces."

Elsa would find out his regeneration capabilities from this point since that's his starting move. Allowing her to finish him quickly by medusa'ing him.

Naturally Elsa would figure out his Regeneration abilities, but I don't think Above Average Intelligence is going to be able to out-strategize a Gifted Intelligence that's able to deduce abilities within a quick fight and immediately create counters for said troublesome abilities.

I dont think doma absorbs right off the bad, it isnt in character for him to do and he'd need to defeat elsa by KO or death before he can remotely get close to touch her as her IA and emotional spout is gonna mush him.

It is absolutely In-Character for Doma to use Absorption as a starting move once he gets into melee. In the two fights he's been in, Doma will almost exclusively opt to absorb women, even going so far as to use his Blood Demon Art to grab and take Shinobu to him (Read right to left) to absorb her and continued to absorb Shinobu even after being attacked. The only reason Kanae was able to survive Doma was because the sun was coming up, and Doma even says that he wanted to absorb her too. It's in his profile that it's his preferred way of killing. Absorption is a perfectly fine win condition as it kills the person being absorbed. If Emotional Empowerment is buffed by his Overwhelming Aura, it will absolutely One-Shot or nearly kill him. I do think that Doma is able to dodge Elsa's IA because it's something he dealt with and beaten before, being able to get into range. Doma would be fine there because he has, well, better experience in fighting than Elsa has and Paralysis Inducement helps because he'd only have to worry about IA.

Like Ive stated, the storm wont AP stomp doma for a win. The storm will simply turn doma into a status just as it did the whole of Arendalle. That would incacipate doma and gives elsa room OR her IA's room to destroy the remains as she'd become near bloodlusted. That's also what happened to most ppl who tried to capture her.

I'd have to see how it works, because what I've seen from Anna being hit with it, it looks to be slow, and I interpret the storm just speeding up the process. Being Statue'd would definitely incapacitate Doma and be a win condition, it's just that shattering the statue would allow Doma to regenerate from it. Also, not sure what you mean by "near-blood lusted" Elsa would absolutely fear a bunch of things about Doma and I'm sure she'd try to avoid taking injuries. I don't think Elsa would...purposely get herself stressed and summon the Island Level ED? In this video, it looks to be just a regular snow-storm that can effect an entire Island (That final snowflake would One-Tap Doma LOL) and it's not like Doma is taking all of the storm at once, more-so being inside of an Island destroying storm. It's not like every individual snowflake would carry Island destroying AP, it's that they all form the Island Destroy AP. So unless Elsa opts to boom the entire location with the Island Destroying ED, I believe that Doma would be able to survive it because he's not taking all of the Island Level AP at once.

Umm sure there's a massive skill ga but how will his skill help him deal with attacks that can be sniped at him up to a quantity up to millions and attacks that can cover meters to kilometer in one go? [...]

Doma absolutely gets boomed by millions of Danmaku, but his regeneration could handle it because it's extremely fast (Doma scales above Akaza in regeneration and that is an Akaza that's holding back) and Doma would be able to dodge SOME of the Danmaku but would absolutely get hit by a bunch of it. From there, it's whether or not Doma gets obliterated past the point of his High-Mid Regeneration would be able to heal. It's also a matter of will Elsa start with the million Danmaku. In related scan, it shows that Elsa wasn't doing in a combat scenario, and being a green (amateur) combatant it could go any way with her starting moves.

never has doma faced someone who can paste him with kilometer stretch attacks that kill him in under a second each hit.

Agree. Doma would definitely become serious if he ever gets hit with a Town level attack.

he's not dodging attacks that cover the whole battle field if elsa so wishes with skill.

Can Elsa control her ED?

she summons giant ice walls and icicles to storm opponents non-stop. Aswell as casual ice rays that could create a giant castle in one go. Doma's skill is no match for elsa's range as she could attack doma from anywhere on the battlefield so she can keep distance as she isnt a cqc fighter unlike doma. Doma's ice attacks also have far less range than elsa and are more so projectiles than elsa's whole projectile straight back to dura neg attacks.

Doma could heal the durability negating attacks. It's just that it's possible for Doma to dodge the Town Level attacks because well, they're not all Danmaku but it's Ggs with the million Danmaku if they can hurt him faster than he can regenerate, which can be an argument made for in favor of Doma. Doma can maybe block the Danmaku using his Blood Demon Art with the help of divine children. I agree with Elsa not being a cqc and keeping her distance. Doma's Extrasensory Perception would help as he could detect where Elsa is at when she does choose to move. Also, her Tens of Kilometers is only with ED (It looks to be with me), so unless ED immediately starts because of SBA (Which says that the opponent wishes to do harm that could effect any range of things), Elsa can't hit him over a kilometer away (Without ED). As I said before, I'm not sure if Elsa can control her ED, and I'm not sure where "Kilometer stretch attacks" come from if you're not talking about ED.

Logically, elsa would find out doma can regen from a simple AOE attack first before doma having the need to use his whole arsenal against elsa before he can take her seriously which you yourself stated.

Yes, Elsa would figure out Doma can regenerate, but that won't be before Doma would figure out her entire shtick is literally controlling ice and snow and make a strategy around it. I'm saying that once Doma gets hit with any attack and gets his entire right side of his body blown off with such force that it pales in comparison to anyone he's seen before, he'll become serious. Doma has Extrasensory Perception and that could go two ways. 1) Doma senses that Elsa is weak (10-B stats. I don't know where you got Elsa No-Selling Doma's attacks from) and gets surprised 'n humbled by her 7-C Ice Powers or 2) Doma's Extrasensory Perception would extend to her Ice Powers and he would become serious immediately.

I think youre forgetting elsa is stressed and pressured here from doma's battke spirit he's getting non stop attacks being sent at him which would hit him repeatedly as elsa herself has Superhuman Precision on her profile with her IA being ultimately faster.

Elsa gets paralyzed from the head down because of Overwhelming Aura. She hasn't shown to be able to use her Ice Powers while not being able to move at all/being paralyzed. In all of her conscious attacks and abilities, uses any form of bodily movement. Paralysis Inducement would stop all but her IA and ED from happening because it stops her body from moving. Elsa's IA is shown to be reacting with her bodily movements. In the three scans of her IA, all of them are happening because she's touching something, if her IA applies even with she is paralyzed, Doma should and would be able to dodge it because...well you get it (It's because of skill, experience and y'know) She's not using her million Danmaku from her IA (which would be crazy if she COULD do that) and at best, IA hits Doma, Doma regenerates or deals with whatever properties the IA has, and gets to and absorbs Elsa. Elsa's Superhuman Precision is dealt with by Doma because he's fought and won against Akaza who has an Enhanced Accuracy (which are Homing Attacks) It can go either way, because a person could say that Homing Attacks can be simply dodged, or that Superhuman Precision pales in comparison to Homing Attacks because Homing Attacks automatically adjust themselves to hit the target. I'm on the latter because Homing Attacks would umbrella Precision. IA is weird because I'm not sure if that's equalized too? If it isn't, it's a stomp match because Doma can't do anything to win because IA reacts to everything Doma does. I guess he could use Divine Children to power through Elsa's IA?

It means elsa and her IA will be on doma's ass at the same time being empowered by her emotions. Aka nonstop danmaku and cover the battlefield in ice that statue's anything it just so touches. Doma cant get around that without some form of flight or levitation which he doesnt have.

That's how Elsa's IA works? Holy crap. Elsa's profile shows her IA is just protecting herself and occasionally freezing things with her touch. Where are you getting the non-stop danmaku and battlefield coverage from?

Doma cant dodge a blizzard that covers the battlefield nor has he ever had to deal with millions of attacks being sent at him at once so assuming he can dodge allat would kinda be NLF

Yea no Doma absolutely CANNOT dodge that lol. I'm saying that he could dodge a few Danmaku (If I said otherwise then my bad!) and High-Mid Regeneration could cover the difference.

i dont think anyone in ds even has danmaku.

Akaza has spammable Danmaku (However many projectiles on the screen, Doma should be able to dodge that amount because he's stronger than Akaza)

He cant just find his way around her IA without having a form of ANPR (Analytic Prediction) to read the projectile movement.

Ehhhhh. I'm saying that because Doma has dealt with Akaza's IA so whatever he did with Akaza he could apply to Elsa since they fall under the same terminology.

Akaza's instant reactions are quite different from elsa's. Elsa deploys countless attacks at her opponents when her IA is triggered (Gets faster in emotion spurt which is usuable here as doma's battle spirit) rather than akaza just reacting physically to attacks that get close to him and WITH A SPECIFIC TECHNIQUE. It isnt a passive occurence like elsas, not comparable at all.

It's comparable.

• Both Elsa's and Akaza's IA reacts to physical attacks
  
  
• Both are active all the time (Akaza's Compass Needle doesn't need to be constantly used, he can just use it once and get the IA)
  
  
• Akaza can use Homing Attack Danmaku in his Compass Needle State and Elsa's Danmaku is used with IA (If it's agreed that IA can even use Danmaku)
  
  
• Both become stronger in a specific way

Doma would absolutely notice the parallels and he could figure out that Elsa's Emotional Empowerment is buffing her attacks. It's obvious to even Anna who has like, zero fighting experience. I don't think in the same instant Doma hits her with Fear Manipulation and Paralysis Inducement is the same moment that million Danmaku kicks off, I think there would be some time between the Fear and the Emotional Empowerment and IA starting. It's whether or not in those moments does Doma fumble or score. A serious Doma would be able to quickly get Elsa while an unserious Doma would fumble (Shaking my head Doma. You had one job)

Lemme rephrase "freezing to death", He gets turned into a statue the moment he's exposed to elsa's ice, which can come in alot of forms. From massive storms straight back to microscopic snowflakes. Its very easy for elsa to get doma with barrages of these attacks.

Doma heals from it. If it isn't destroying him past "getting blown to pieces," he's regenerating it.

She doesnt have to. If i realize my opponent can regenerate from my attacks that shouldve killed him then ill just make my range bigger or microscopic to touch my opponent once.

Well. That's you. Elsa is a different person. Elsa may not even know how to deal with Doma's regeneration because she's literally never fought someone with regeneration, it's not like she thinks "Hm, he regenerated my attack. Well, it looks like I have to throw an even bigger attack at him!" She's going to fuel her Emotional Empowerment by being freaked out that an apparent human regrew his entire torso (quite the visual for Elsa) in an instant and keep throwing Ice Rays at him because she'll still try to win but don't know how. Of course, she wouldn't run around like a headless chicken, but she has no idea about the AP gap between Doma and her, doesn't even know that Doma isn't a human, and doesn't know that Doma can use ice powers. Yes, I do believe that Elsa will try to control Doma's ice, but Doma is also controlling it himself, so it's a matter of how that conflict of powers is resolved.

Not combat oriented but common sense oriented which helps elsa alot here even without prior knowledge of domas regen. Albeit while keeping distance which elsa can easily do by using this;

Not really. Think of it from the POV of Elsa, you hit someone with an attack and they regenerate it, showing no signs of pain and continuing to move even with their injuries. Elsa wouldn't reason that he's has a supernatural nature because Doma literally looks human, so unless Doma comes out and tells Elsa he's a demon, she wouldn't know. She may think Doma's a spirit, I can agree with that, but no spirit she's come into contact with save for the Trolls have ever regenerated from injuries. I do agree that Elsa would keep distance, but when she fights, she just stays in the same position. Connecting to my previous point of Paralysis Inducement most likely working on Elsa, in all three of these videos Elsa has made some sort of movement for the IA to kick off. Soldiers are able to react to her ice formations and Doma would definitely see and dodge these attacks. Especially in video one and three where the people had time to react to the formation of the ice. Doma would be able to figure out the IA and EP because when Elsa starts to become more and more stressed, she'd start visibly losing control of her ice powers. In every situation where she was stressed, it was obvious that she was stressed. Someone like Doma, who is able to figure out abilities from just fighting briefly, would see the sign board that says "I'm losing control of my powers!" and pounce. Yes, Elsa has a greater control of her powers, but she has never went up against an Overwhelming Aura opponent that can scare someone so badly they get paralysis. She is absolutely losing control of her powers.

Doma has no answer when elsa decides to walk on air and blast him from there.

Would Elsa even do this in a combat scenario? In the scan, she does that as a method of travel. If she does, Doma can use Wintry Icicles because he has ranged attacks perfectly capable of tagging an Elsa who relies on IA. Crystalline Divine Child can be used and will also spam BDA as well. Elsa has went up against a max of five soldiers with crossbows. This is six ice replicas that share the same skill and proficiency as Doma and can gather information themselves. It can quickly become a 1v6 with Doma and his six children spamming necrosis-inducing (This SHOULD be biological manipulation but it's not. Shame) attacks that will kill Elsa when inhaled. Doma doesn't tire either, so he can just continuously go at Elsa.

Elsa resist ice manipulation, as well as her IA can block any attack doma throws at her.

In all, domas wincons include doma getting close to elsa which isnt happening due to elsa's IA and precision and all those attacks are gonna atomize him and would give her way to turn him into a statue. Skill wont help doma to dodge millions of attacks at once (he's never done this so assuming he can from the years he's lived is NLF), nor can skill help him dodge attacks that cover the whole battlefield.

I will be so mad if Elsa resists Doma's necrosis because that falls under Ice Manipulation. Yea, I agree with Doma not getting in but for different reasons. He has Superhuman Speed that has to pass 4 Kilometers to get to a moving Elsa. I'll most likely have to change the distance, but I can argue for Doma doing a marathon run to get to Elsa because his High-Mid Regeneration, BDA, and Infinite Stamina can handle it.

Skill absolutely isn't dodging millions of Danmaku (At once? Regeneration goes brr) Elsa's IA and Superhuman Precision won't help much because I believe that Akaza's Homing Attacks sit above Elsa's Superhuman Precision. Doma has dealt with or dodged these Homing Attacks, so he would be able to dodge a weaker projectile than a Homing Attack. What battlefield-covering attack are you talking about?

---

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

I'm gonna have to change the range then. Superhuman speed Doma is NOT getting to Elsa before he gets One Shot.

Indeed.

Doma can regenerate from that. Blood is still in the body when you are frozen and his High-Mid Regeneration allows him to regenerate when being "blown to pieces."

He wont. Her ice freezes doma to a statue with the onky revoke to this is her dispelling it herself. Doma doesnt resist ice manipluation so assuming he can remotely recover from this is NLF. His body wont be able to regenerate when his body gets broken to pieces in the form of ice, NOT himself. He would need to resist ice manipulation and durability negation to remotely recover from this.
Doma regenerating from elsa's thorough attacks is one thing but regenerating from becoming a frozen sculpture is another. He's getting the medusa treatment here. The power freezes and covers her opponent's body in ice and smashes the remains to pieces, doma would need resistance which he doesnt have.

Naturally Elsa would figure out his Regeneration abilities, but I don't think Above Average Intelligence is going to be able to out-strategize a Gifted Intelligence that's able to deduce abilities within a quick fight and immediately create counters for said troublesome abilities.

She doesnt need to out stratergize him like ive stated before. Doma has no way of evading elsa's range nor can doma simply get around it. What's he gonna do? Hit the ice? That wont end well for him, will it? Doma's skill here is helpful in dodging attacks and anticipating elsa's movements but it has no leverage or counter towards elsa's powers as they completely outclass him with physical stats alone. Just because elsa has Above Average intelligence doesnt mean she cant make stratergies herself and even if doma can make better ones, he still gets outclasses in every other stat and elsa will use that to win.

It is absolutely In-Character for Doma to use Absorption as a starting move once he gets into melee. In the two fights he's been in, Doma will almost exclusively opt to absorb women, even going so far as to use his Blood Demon Art to grab and take Shinobu to him (Read right to left) to absorb her and continued to absorb Shinobu even after being attacked. The only reason Kanae was able to survive Doma was because the sun was coming up, and Doma even says that he wanted to absorb her too. It's in his profile that it's his preferred way of killing. Absorption is a perfectly fine win condition as it kills the person being absorbed. If Emotional Empowerment is buffed by his Overwhelming Aura, it will absolutely One-Shot or nearly kill him. I do think that Doma is able to dodge Elsa's IA because it's something he dealt with and beaten before, being able to get into range. Doma would be fine there because he has, well, better experience in fighting than Elsa has and Paralysis Inducement helps because he'd only have to worry about IA.

He wont get into melee or grab with elsa as elsa will abuse range and AOE attacks to keep doma away along with creating staircases to heaven which doma has no counter to. Infact elsa would logically stay away from doma here to avoid his battle spirit cuz as youve said its passive. He can dodge most of her projectiles sure but he'll eventually get cooked by the following AOE attacks which will kill him with a graze repeatedly, doma doesnt have the speed or evasure attacks to evade these.

I'd have to see how it works, because what I've seen from Anna being hit with it, it looks to be slow, and I interpret the storm just speeding up the process. Being Statue'd would definitely incapacitate Doma and be a win condition, it's just that shattering the statue would allow Doma to regenerate from it. Also, not sure what you mean by "near-blood lusted" Elsa would absolutely fear a bunch of things about Doma and I'm sure she'd try to avoid taking injuries. I don't think Elsa would...purposely get herself stressed and summon the Island Level ED? In this video, it looks to be just a regular snow-storm that can effect an entire Island (That final snowflake would One-Tap Doma LOL) and it's not like Doma is taking all of the storm at once, more-so being inside of an Island destroying storm. It's not like every individual snowflake would carry Island destroying AP, it's that they all form the Island Destroy AP. So unless Elsa opts to boom the entire location with the Island Destroying ED, I believe that Doma would be able to survive it because he's not taking all of the Island Level AP at once

1. It spread across arendalle in a short time frame. Elsa being buffed by emotions is gonna lessen that timeframe so it doesnt really matter. Shattering the statue still leaves ice around doma which doma doesnt have resistance to said power so he's getting crushed and unable to regenerate without his body being freed. Elsa would realize doma is weak the moment he fails to break her ice and since she scales in durability to her ice, she has nothing to fear except doma's battle spirit which injuries her which would cause an emotional spurt, that's why she'd be near bloodlusted. She needs to kill or incacipate doma to stop the effect.
2. Also no, if shes slowly dying on the inside and someone is trying to attack her, why wouldnt she be stressed? I dont understand this point.
3. Elsa in character is also very caucious of those who try to harm her which is why she freezes ppl as a starting move in the show. Doma isnt taking the dull extent but some energy from the storm which will be directed at him due to IA (and we know it pastes him), the main effect of the storm is freezing its victims which will be deterimental here as doma will indeed get touched as he's not evading a whole storm without bfr'ing himself which he wouldnt do cux he has no prior knowledge of the storm. Each flake will carry enough energy to one hit doma as elsa's regular powers already can and scale above doma BY FARR... with her storm being the full extent of what she's capable of. Doma still gets cooked by the storm here.

Can Elsa control her ED?

No, it only activates after elsa gets stressed and gets emotional. Although you can just say the ice queen could start her own ice storm but thats another story.

Doma absolutely gets boomed by millions of Danmaku, but his regeneration could handle it because it's extremely fast (Doma scales above Akaza in regeneration and that is an Akaza that's holding back) and Doma would be able to dodge SOME of the Danmaku but would absolutely get hit by a bunch of it. From there, it's whether or not Doma gets obliterated past the point of his High-Mid Regeneration would be able to heal. It's also a matter of will Elsa start with the million Danmaku. In related scan, it shows that Elsa wasn't doing in a combat scenario, and being a green (amateur) combatant it could go any way with her starting moves.

Elsa isnt a cqc, rather a range magic user. She can form ice from underground onto doma's making him unable to move and pellet him with danmaku (not that it matters) or as ive stated alot of times. Cover the guy with ice.... in so many ways doma wont expect and he wont be able to dodge or escape it as she has alot of range. The regen part is fine but elsa has a way around that.

Doma could heal the durability negating attacks. It's just that it's possible for Doma to dodge the Town Level attacks because well, they're not all Danmaku but it's Ggs with the million Danmaku if they can hurt him faster than he can regenerate, which can be an argument made for in favor of Doma. Doma can maybe block the Danmaku using his Blood Demon Art with the help of divine children. I agree with Elsa not being a cqc and keeping her distance. Doma's Extrasensory Perception would help as he could detect where Elsa is at when she does choose to move. Also, her Tens of Kilometers is only with ED (It looks to be with me), so unless ED immediately starts because of SBA (Which says that the opponent wishes to do harm that could effect any range of things), Elsa can't hit him over a kilometer away (Without ED). As I said before, I'm not sure if Elsa can control her ED, and I'm not sure where "Kilometer stretch attacks" come from if you're not talking about ED.

1. He can heal dura negating attacks but not elsa's without a resistance to ice manipulation, nor can he break her ice as the damage reflects back on him and the fact that.... his AP just isnt enough......
2. Not all of elsa's 7-C attacks are danmaku.. thats true. It can be giant structures of ice brought to life as monsters, large pillars of ice, a ice ray or all of these with the one capability of touching doma once to freeze him. There's no arguement that can counter doma's way around elsa's versatile arsenal.
3. Block?! His BDA is getting shattered by elsa's casual attacks let alone her danmaku. There's no way doma can remotely take a attack from elsa here without getting merked by AP here.
4. Sure doma has ESP to detect elsa and her movements but he's not catching her midair while she's literally moonwalking on it. Doma cant get to elsa midair and that'll be ggs for anything doma has planned as he cant get to her. This is also in character for elsa to do, and would be applicable as she'd need a way to escape doma's battle spirit that harms her.
5. Elsa has at the very least tens of meters and up when it comes to range which got better after the first movie alone, making her range superior to doma. Even if its not kilometers, with her advanced skillset compared to doma in range, she can still murk him with giant attacks and AOE. As soon as doma gets in range, it'll be a snipe fest and doma has no counter cuz he doesnt start with his BDA according to u but melee attacks. And we know what comes after .

Yes, Elsa would figure out Doma can regenerate, but that won't be before Doma would figure out her entire shtick is literally controlling ice and snow and make a strategy around it.

Sure. But that'll be pointless, he's far too slow to get around elsa's ice attacks and gets vaporized with every hit of those attacks. Doma's skill cant help against something hundreds of times his stats and dozens of times greater than his range. There's a limit to what he can do here with skill.

1) Doma senses that Elsa is weak (10-B stats. I don't know where you got Elsa No-Selling Doma's attacks from) and gets surprised 'n humbled by her 7-C Ice Powers

Incorrect. Extrasensory Perception doesnt sense how strong the opponent is, it senses their presence. Detecting stats would be Information Analysis which doma doesnt have. Elsa would no-sell doma's attacks.... her durability is rated 7-C on her profile.... her physical AP tho is 10-B.

Doma's Extrasensory Perception would extend to her Ice Powers and he would become serious immediately.

You'd have to prove doma's ESP can do such. Based off his profile, it seems to sense individuals (such as humans and demons) only, not their attacks.

Elsa gets paralyzed from the head down because of Overwhelming Aura.

Oop i never known this. If that's how it is, then its a stomp. Elsa cant move and doma will just absorb her, killing her. Elsa has no wincons if such, or rather they get negated. I wont be able to even answer the rest of your arguments

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Bump for interest.

 

[Catbowtie]

Added both our votes, updated the title, and I'll reply soon.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Added both our votes, updated the title, and I'll reply soon.

Understood.

 

[Catbowtie]

Let's get to it.

He wont. Her ice freezes doma to a statue with the onky revoke to this is her dispelling it herself. Doma doesnt resist ice manipluation so assuming he can remotely recover from this is NLF. His body wont be able to regenerate when his body gets broken to pieces in the form of ice, NOT himself. He would need to resist ice manipulation and durability negation to remotely recover from this.
Doma regenerating from elsa's thorough attacks is one thing but regenerating from becoming a frozen sculpture is another. He's getting the medusa treatment here. The power freezes and covers her opponent's body in ice and smashes the remains to pieces, doma would need resistance which he doesnt have.

Yes, you are right, that's a NLF. I didn't catch it because Elsa petrified Anna and I thought it was her being turned to a statue on the outside rather than the inside out. That should be added to her profile. If Elsa freezes Doma from the outside, he can regenerate the damage because it's not freezing all of his cells. Though it wouldn't play a factor because Doma would sense himself getting weaker, look into his own body, and realize that Elsa's ice is freezing him from the inside out. Even if Elsa can speed the process up, Doma has time to cut off a finger and regenerate from that. Doma's Adaptation maybe could come into play with the Durability Negating Ice? It's a weird ability he has. I'm going to ignore it though because I feel like it's actually Limited Adaptation rather than straight up Adaptation because if it is, Doma adapts to Ice and absorbs Elsa (Incredibly weird)

Too Long, Didn't Read: I agree with you that if Elsa freezes Doma from the inside out, that's a win, but if she freezes him from the outside, he regenerates the damage.

She doesnt need to out stratergize him like ive stated before. Doma has no way of evading elsa's range nor can doma simply get around it. What's he gonna do? Hit the ice? That wont end well for him, will it? Doma's skill here is helpful in dodging attacks and anticipating elsa's movements but it has no leverage or counter towards elsa's powers as they completely outclass him with physical stats alone. Just because elsa has Above Average intelligence doesnt mean she cant make stratergies herself and even if doma can make better ones, he still gets outclasses in every other stat and elsa will use that to win.

Elsa's ice powers outclassing him in DP won't matter because Doma dodges anything that isn't the million Danmaku, above the scan that I gave with Akaza's Danmaku earlier, an attack that would surprise Doma, or covers a huge enough area that dodging isn't reasonably possible. Elsa does have a crazy AOE range, but that's from her ED. Elsa has never shown her normal Ice magicks range going anywhere near Tens of Kilometers. If there is, please give scans.

No, it only activates after elsa gets stressed and gets emotional. Although you can just say the ice queen could start her own ice storm but thats another story.

Noted.

He wont get into melee or grab with elsa as elsa will abuse range and AOE attacks to keep doma away along with creating staircases to heaven which doma has no counter to. Infact elsa would logically stay away from doma here to avoid his battle spirit cuz as youve said its passive. He can dodge most of her projectiles sure but he'll eventually get cooked by the following AOE attacks which will kill him with a graze repeatedly, doma doesnt have the speed or evasure attacks to evade these.

Same as with before, you've read it. ED is the only notable AOE long range and her other AOEs are at Tens of Meters at best. The platforms are still connected to the ground. Doma can just scale the platform or use his BDA. Elsa doesn't know about Doma's Overwhelming Aura and from one of the fights in her profile, Elsa is incredibly green when it comes to fighting. Elsa got dragged for an entire 8 seconds by the Nokk before even doing anything with her ice powers and I can see Elsa In-Character initially vaporizing Doma with her crazy AP gap, let her guard down, and then get caught off-guard by his regeneration.

Elsa isnt a cqc, rather a range magic user. She can form ice from underground onto doma's making him unable to move and pellet him with danmaku (not that it matters) or as ive stated alot of times. Cover the guy with ice.... in so many ways doma wont expect and he wont be able to dodge or escape it as she has alot of range. The regen part is fine but elsa has a way around that.

While yes, Doma wouldn't expect the many ways Elsa can manipulate ice, all of them are very simple fixes. Vibration Manipulation? Don't hit the ice with a weapon. Elsa can attack his organs? Use Body Control to neutralize it. Elsa is using Platform Creation? Scale it. Doma isn't going to fall for something as juvenile as freezing the ground to prevent him from moving.

1. He can heal dura negating attacks but not elsa's without a resistance to ice manipulation, nor can he break her ice as the damage reflects back on him and the fact that.... his AP just isnt enough......
2. Not all of elsa's 7-C attacks are danmaku.. thats true. It can be giant structures of ice brought to life as monsters, large pillars of ice, a ice ray or all of these with the one capability of touching doma once to freeze him. There's no arguement that can counter doma's way around elsa's versatile arsenal.
3. Block?! His BDA is getting shattered by elsa's casual attacks let alone her danmaku. There's no way doma can remotely take a attack from elsa here without getting merked by AP here.
4. Sure doma has ESP to detect elsa and her movements but he's not catching her midair while she's literally moonwalking on it. Doma cant get to elsa midair and that'll be ggs for anything doma has planned as he cant get to her. This is also in character for elsa to do, and would be applicable as she'd need a way to escape doma's battle spirit that harms her.
5. Elsa has at the very least tens of meters and up when it comes to range which got better after the first movie alone, making her range superior to doma. Even if its not kilometers, with her advanced skillset compared to doma in range, she can still murk him with giant attacks and AOE. As soon as doma gets in range, it'll be a snipe fest and doma has no counter cuz he doesnt start with his BDA according to u but melee attacks. And we know what comes after .

(Answering these in the respective ordered number)

1. What do you mean by that? I don't understand the reason for bringing up Doma's lack of ice resistance. Are you saying that Elsa could prevent Doma's regeneration by freezing his body inside out completely? Or are you saying that hitting him in a non-lethal area will prevent regeneration in that area? Also Doma can amputate the non-frozen part of his body to contain the Durability Negation. When Doma sees the ice spreading on his body he will absolutely self-amputate when he realizes he can't regenerate through it. Also, the visual of Doma hitting the ice on his own body just to get hit with Elsa's Vibration Manipulation is very funny. Truly it is a humbling moment.


2. That's not true. The soldiers that were trying to capture Elsa would've been frozen the moment they stepped foot on the ice. The monster you mentioned? It got beat with mid-diff by Hans with one attack and it fell to it's demise, despite having a strength and size difference. It's very clearly animalistic. Doma will fodder-ize it before it can even raise it's hand, and if he can't hurt it, Doma will just dodge because the attack wind-up on that thing is obvious. I made it a general rule that if a soldier did it, Doma could do it with flying colors. "Versatile" is overplaying Elsa's abilities. The only notable combat abilities that Doma would struggle with is IA/EE, ED, and the Million Danmaku. That is not to say that her other abilities aren't a factor, but Doma either has better combat experience to deal with (Elsa's Superhuman Precision and Air Manipulation) or can be quickly solved (Vibration Manipulation and Durability Negation), even with the notable combat abilities, Elsa has never shown to actually utilize her Million Danmaku In-Character even when he has access to it (See Elsa's fight with the Water Spirit), or require Doma's generous help (Smh Doma) to trigger (Environmental Destruction)


3. Valid argument. I concede. Doma just gotta thug it out like Mahoraga.


4. Doma has Tens of Meters range, is Elsa really making a platform that's higher than his range? Is it any higher than the room Doma and Shinobu fought in? Doma in the same room gets stabbed 'n pushed to the roof, and even after getting un-impaled stayed there (In the box below "It makes me furious!" he looks to be using his BDA to stick to the roof) Doma would use this application of his BDA to get to Elsa if he can't reach her already. Elsa, when using Platform Creation, only did it to traverse from an open gap to another. Does she even have the foresight to know that staying on the ground isn't the best option? Against Doma, who is human-like and as far as she knows, doesn't have any magic except for regeneration? Unless Doma yaps off about how he has magic too, she's not going to immediately go to "This guy can use magic" Maybe she'd equate him to being a spirit, but that's it. Heck, it could be very possible that she couldn't differentiate between Doma's and her Ice Manipulation because they are exactly the same. Also Battle Spirit is passive but you saw that.



5. Parroting my point from before, her only large scale AOE comes from her ED. Her other Ice Manipulation is Tens of Meters at best. The ED and ice projectiles are in two completely different levels of range because while her ED can have a range of kilometers, her ice projectiles aren't going match it. Elsa's Superhuman Precision isn't even shown to be accurate to 4 kilometers because the scan with the aforementioned ability only has her shooting a projectile at a close range distance. PS: I was going to also add that Elsa couldn't even see Doma 4 Kilometers away, but the human can see up to 3 miles on a clear horizon (Google told me that 3 = 4.8 kilometers) I'm sure with the trees of the location blocking Elsa's eyesight, I think Doma could clear some distance before being seen by Elsa.

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Despite all this, we just need some votes.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

I didn't catch it because Elsa petrified Anna and I thought it was her being turned to a statue on the outside rather than the inside out. That should be added to her profile

Im gonna have to get her supporter's to do allat when im free.

If Elsa freezes Doma from the outside, he can regenerate the damage because it's not freezing all of his cells

The ice has durability negation for a reason. It'll freeze inside him aswell. It freezes from the outside to the inside in mere seconds but she can do this vice versa by spawning ice on the opponent which doma wont see coming as he has no form of precognition. And his ANPR cant predict the future so, he's cooked.

Though it wouldn't play a factor because Doma would sense himself getting weaker

? Her ice doesnt have statistic deduction, how will her ice make him weaker for doma to "sense" this especially if he can heal the damage done to him by ranged and AOE attacks.

look into his own body, and realize that Elsa's ice is freezing him from the inside out.

Once he's touched which you seen to be admitting he does. He has no counter, it'll spread over his body in seconds and he wont be able to destroy the ice formation.

Even if Elsa can speed the process up, Doma has time to cut off a finger and regenerate from that

She can induce multiple attacks that freeze doma at once, especially her danmaku or AOE attacks which doma wont have time to anticipate to dodge while thinking of which body part to discredit from himself, reminder, these attacks paste him so these attacks will cover more ground on his body before doma can even regenerate, his regen speed probably gets downgraded here to superhuman speeds as we know his regen can near-perception blitz MHS characters similar to Kokushibo and Muzan. He will sure regen elsa's attacks cuz High-Mid, ill admit that, but i dont think he'll regen him time from ranged, duraneg attacks and danmaku as they easily annihalte his whole body in seconds giving the ice to cover his body in that timeframe. Elsa has many ways of shreading that regen, her ability counters it entirely.

Doma's Adaptation maybe could come into play with the Durability Negating Ice? It's a weird ability he has.

It seems it only has applications of adapting to the poison they use inverse, as it states;

Would have recovered from a lethal poison dose that is strong enough to kill an ordinary demon 700 times over with enough time

With elsa's ice being light years incomparable, more versatile and complicated than wisteria poison. I dont think he'll adapt to an entirely different element which has nothing to do with what he can adapt to in his verse.

Doma dodges anything that isn't the million Danmaku

Can he dodge an attack that spawns ice inside his body? I dont think so as he has no way of using ANPR to predict that unless elsa has used this attack on him before which wouldnt be the case as elsa uses this as a sure to hit/kill or a last resort. Against a regenerating opponent sure. Also her AOE attacks such as a big ball of literal snow dropping on doma, wont be able to escape this attack. Or attacks that spawn around him such as icicles being lauched around him in every direction or the infamous, 'a literal wave of ice'. Elsa has shown versatility, she doesnt stick to one way of using her ice powers and it aint as limited as doma's ice skills moveset.

Elsa does have a crazy AOE range, but that's from her ED. Elsa has never shown her normal Ice magicks range going anywhere near Tens of Kilometers

That's true but her normal attacks are at least tens of meters going up. As we see with her casual wave of ice or her building her castle.

other AOEs are at Tens of Meters at best.

Incorrect, her profile explicitly states "at least" meaning the smallest range attacks she'd use falls under this, its just that her range extends to kilometers at best. Like i said before elsa will be stressed due to doma's battle spirit and as such her kilometer range is applicable here either way.

Elsa got dragged for an entire 8 seconds by the Nokk before even doing anything with her ice powers and I can see Elsa In-Character initially vaporizing Doma with her crazy AP gap, let her guard down, and then get caught off-guard by his regeneration.

Pretty sure this is due because the guy is stronger and faster than her, thats how she has her dura scale and she didnt want to kill the guy either iirc so thats not a good example. The guy was beating down on her but as we know, doma doesnt fall under this, hes the same speed aswell as being far weaker albeit more skilled and experiened. And we know SBA states, each character wont give up unless an ability forces them to. Her platforms would disappear after she scales the airs and it wouldnt be strannge to assume this as she's actively trying to escape the rays doma's battle spirit induce on her without him catching on. If doma manages to scale them, its another way he can simply get frozen or attacked by numerous attacks. That method doesnt end well for him either. Elsa isnt exactly dumb here and even if doma knows, any contact. Elsa is a ranged fighter while doma is not, for doma to catch her offguard, how will he close the gap in their distance instantly to suprise someone with IA here? He doesnt seem to have teleportation here.

Use Body Control to neutralize it.

I ThiNk "destroy his body part" argument is more solid for this. He'd need a resistance if he were to simply neutralize it as he's stopping literal dura neg ice here which doesnt seem very solid without resistance.

Doma isn't going to fall for something as juvenile as freezing the ground to prevent him from moving.

Ive adressed how this ends up bad for doma above. As we see in the first movie, those who tried to climb her ice stairs fell to their death as she destroyed them from inside her castle, it would be more or less similar to here. He wont be able to scale 30 platforms at once after elsa destroys the 24th one he's on by instinct as she doesnt need hand gestures to form or destroy ice.

Are you saying that Elsa could prevent Doma's regeneration by freezing his body inside out completely? Or are you saying that hitting him in a non-lethal area will prevent regeneration in that area?

Indeed. It "freezes" the opponents body stopping them from making a simple movement. She can do this in numerous way not limited to those i mentioned as she has versatility. Even her intelligence section regards that.

Also Doma can amputate the non-frozen part of his body to contain the Durability Negation

This can be revoked by danmaku as it covers the whole area and dismantles his body upon contact.

It got beat with mid-diff by Hans with one attack and it fell to it's demise, despite having a strength and size difference. It's very clearly animalistic.

Valid point here. Although it could be strenghten by her emotions although doma can just dodge tbh as its animalistic.

Versatile" is overplaying Elsa's abilities. The only notable combat abilities that Doma would struggle with is IA/EE, ED, and the Million Danmaku

Its not. She can make ice and ice attacks in numerous ways not named these, even ones we havent seen. These are what hed STRUGGLE with doesnt debunk the fact elsa can deploy attacks in millions of ways as its not limited to gesture.

Also Battle Spirit is passive but you saw that.

In all. This makes this battle a stomp, among everything you addressed doesnt take into the fact elsa wouldve been amped by her emotions here and as such her abilities will not be small attacks but centered around AOE and The best she can do with attacks like danmaku and dura neg, her range also is clearly not limited as the profile suggests otherwise in that section with "at least" and while most of doma's ice attacks are projectiles or defense, elsa's moveset is more versatile and can be adapted to fight against a foe that uses cqc asa ranged magic user. Doma has no way of closing the gap aswell as him placing himself on elsa's ice attacks including her platform will cause her to just dismantle it as she does in the first movie with her stairs or freeze doma when he makes contact with them. If this matchup were possible, elsa would give it her all here while her attack power and range increases the more pain she feels and doma with all the skill he has have no way of escaping these range attacks without quick teleportation or smt of the sorth.

I think Doma could clear some distance before being seen by Elsa.

Elsa can use her ice to detect things around her, her ice can reach distances furthur than she can see and even if doma sees her first, elsa would eventually see him and so the battle starts, that isnt a major wincon. Once he gets into a hundred meter range, she'd see him and the battlefield theyre on is a open oasis.

Elsa in this match will be eager to kill doma here and not in princess mode. In agony but concious allowing her to use her growth in power wisely against a cqc foe. Doma using skill to evade elsa's attacks will only make else use her attacks that cover a ground he can no longer dodge extending hundreds of meters up to a kilometer possibly causing the arendalle storm if it keeps up. Doma can analize and dodge all he wants but elsa can easily expand range and use attacks from underground or spawn attacks on him with precision which he cant anticipate or dodge due to same speed and well..... he wont expect it without seeing it once as it seems thats how his ANPR works. Elsa wont stick to the same moves over and over like u make it out to be especially in a bloodlusted state but will constantly send huge attacks and storms in doma's direction and he'd eventually circum to ice freeze which he wouldnt regen from without a resistance to ice manipulation. There's simply no way around the range difference between these characters especially for a cqc fighter.

It's comparable.

• Both Elsa's and Akaza's IA reacts to physical attacks
  
  
• Both are active all the time (Akaza's Compass Needle doesn't need to be constantly used, he can just use it once and get the IA)
  
  
• Akaza can use Homing Attack Danmaku in his Compass Needle State and Elsa's Danmaku is used with IA (If it's agreed that IA can even use Danmaku)
  
  
• Both become stronger in a specific way

And this point which is brought up in recent arguments.

1. First point is balant and narrow, IA usually makes anyone who has it react to physical attacks albeit elsa's extends to projectiles like arrows and explosions. Sometime's even sheilding her then impaling the striker with spikes.
2. Most IA are like this, it isnt a special quirk that makes them conparable, the point of IA is to react to ANY attack upon instinct. And akaza needing to activate this debunks your own point against them being comparable as elsa's is always active.
3. Elsa can aswell albeit not on her profile so idk if this is even applicable unless we agree upon it.
4. In different ways, elsa's is boosted by emotion, will and how she percieves herself. It's not really overall based on battle growth like akaza's.

I'd say due to the passive growth of her IA in this battle, it would eventually surpass akaza's in potency as it really depends on how stressed she is and doma's battle spirit upscaling from so many individual's in ds would have a bad effect on elsa making the stress real as hell. And if i forgot, Her IA would so destroy doma even with his experience as it will continue to grow until she stops herself which isnt happening as her sister aint there lol. Doma will have no room to breathe and will use his time dodging and anticipating more than creeping up on a elsa who is concious and is actively moving away from his fighting spirit due to her mobilityenhanced by her platforms to heaven.

Doma's battle spirit makes this match a stomp and even if we agreed that she overcomes it to fight, it wont be added to profiles.k

 

[Catbowtie]

The ice has durability negation for a reason. It'll freeze inside him aswell. It freezes from the outside to the inside in mere seconds but she can do this vice versa by spawning ice on the opponent which doma wont see coming as he has no form of precognition. And his ANPR cant predict the future so, he's cooked.

"Spawning ice on the opponent" How does that one work? Where did that come from?

? Her ice doesnt have statistic deduction, how will her ice make him weaker for doma to "sense" this especially if he can heal the damage done to him by ranged and AOE attacks.

Anna, a literal human with no abilities, could tell that Elsa's ice was effecting her physically. It's not like Elsa's Dura Neg creeps up on the person. Doma would get hit, feel his movements become slower (because Frozen 2 doesn't make it as though Anna didn't even know she had a sickness, she did), and look into his own body to see what's up. If Doma couldn't use Body Control to separate the effected areas from the rest of his body, he's aborting his body by regenerating a new one.

Once he's touched which you seen to be admitting he does. He has no counter, it'll spread over his body in seconds and he wont be able to destroy the ice formation.

Doma has a counter. Seconds? Where does that come from? Doma could very easily self-amputate to leave the effected body behind and regenerate a new one. The Ice doesn't have a speed higher than Superhuman (It'd be ****** if Elsa could keep her Subsonic reactions, or maybe I've been doing this wrong and Doma has Subsonic combat speed? I don't know) From the videos I've seen of Elsa's ice, it's spreading at a fast but not instant speed.

It seems it only has applications of adapting to the poison they use inverse, as it states;
With elsa's ice being light years incomparable, more versatile and complicated than wisteria poison. I dont think he'll adapt to an entirely different element which has nothing to do with what he can adapt to in his verse.

They should put it as Limited. Could be very misleading depending on a person's interpretation.

Can he dodge an attack that spawns ice inside his body? I dont think so as he has no way of using ANPR to predict that unless elsa has used this attack on him before which wouldnt be the case as elsa uses this as a sure to hit/kill or a last resort. Against a regenerating opponent sure. Also her AOE attacks such as a big ball of literal snow dropping on doma, wont be able to escape this attack. Or attacks that spawn around him such as icicles being lauched around him in every direction or the infamous, 'a literal wave of ice'. Elsa has shown versatility, she doesnt stick to one way of using her ice powers and it aint as limited as doma's ice skills moveset.

Where is the ice spawning inside his body coming from? Is that Elsa's Dura Neg? Doma is cutting off a finger and regenerating from that finger. Doma is absolutely getting caught off-guard when Elsa decides to attack his organs, but he'd deal with it via Body Control once it started spreading. Is the big ball of snow you're referring to this? (That's funny) Doma isn't getting hit by that (It's so cartoon-ish LOL) and if he is, he regenerates it. Elsa's Dura Neg is fairly obviously a conscious application of her magicks, so the first rain of Danmaku isn't shid-stomping Doma. Would Elsa even know to use her Dura Neg attacks? When she blows off a good Doma's body with a 7-C ice attack/Danmaku and he regenerates it, how valid is her next thought of "I should attack his organs/mind this time!" sound? Is she even going to continue to use Dura Neg after Doma deals with it (Body Control) the first time he's hit with it? Also yes, if that's what you meant by Versatile, then I agree.

She can induce multiple attacks that freeze doma at once, especially her danmaku or AOE attacks which doma wont have time to anticipate to dodge while thinking of which body part to discredit from himself, reminder, these attacks paste him so these attacks will cover more ground on his body before doma can even regenerate, his regen speed probably gets downgraded here to superhuman speeds as we know his regen can near-perception blitz MHS characters similar to Kokushibo and Muzan. He will sure regen elsa's attacks cuz High-Mid, ill admit that, but i dont think he'll regen him time from ranged, duraneg attacks and danmaku as they easily annihalte his whole body in seconds giving the ice to cover his body in that timeframe. Elsa has many ways of shreading that regen, her ability counters it entirely.

The amputate thing is straight forward. Doma sees a frozen body part spreading, he cuts it. Also with the Speed Equalization, I'm not sure, but okay. I'll take your word for it. Yea no, Doma is not regenerating from millions of dura neg Danmaku with every single one of them being 7-C, he gets turned into red paint. It's just the when part that I'm debating. If that doesn't happen before Doma can get to Elsa and have Overwhelming Aura do it's Paralysis Inducement, that's a win for Doma.

I don't see a calculation for Elsa's Superhuman speed, so I'll assume the baseline of 12.43 m/s. From the range of 4 kilometers, it'd take 5 minutes, 22 seconds for Doma to get to Elsa. Is Elsa busting out million Danmaku by minute 3 to 4? Does her ED trigger within that timeframe? As soon as Elsa gets within Overwhelming Aura range, that's Ggs with room for failure on Doma's part (Yes I know I repeated the same thing let me cook). I do believe that Elsa's ED and IA/EE remain somewhat unaffected by Paralysis Inducement, because sometimes it's triggered by Elsa moving but can also act on it's on in some situations, but I still believe Doma takes the win from there. Doma would get around rudimentary IA that has parallels with Akaza's.

That's true but her normal attacks are at least tens of meters going up. As we see with her casual wave of ice or her building her castle.

True. Doma can still dodge it because the time it takes for the ice to cover that range is enough time for him to see it and avoid it's trajectory.

Incorrect, her profile explicitly states "at least" meaning the smallest range attacks she'd use falls under this, its just that her range extends to kilometers at best. Like i said before elsa will be stressed due to doma's battle spirit and as such her kilometer range is applicable here either way.

Her kilometers of range comes from her ED. Doma's Battle Spirit only starts to take effect when Elsa sees Doma or like within some meters of him. Kilometer range is only applicable if ED immediately starts because of SBA. Elsa is never shown or calculated shooting ice magicks at kilometers of range that isn't her ED.

Pretty sure this is due because the guy is stronger and faster than her, thats how she has her dura scale and she didnt want to kill the guy either iirc so thats not a good example. The guy was beating down on her but as we know, doma doesnt fall under this, hes the same speed aswell as being far weaker albeit more skilled and experiened. And we know SBA states, each character wont give up unless an ability forces them to. Her platforms would disappear after she scales the airs and it wouldnt be strannge to assume this as she's actively trying to escape the rays doma's battle spirit induce on her without him catching on. If doma manages to scale them, its another way he can simply get frozen or attacked by numerous attacks. That method doesnt end well for him either. Elsa isnt exactly dumb here and even if doma knows, any contact. Elsa is a ranged fighter while doma is not, for doma to catch her offguard, how will he close the gap in their distance instantly to suprise someone with IA here? He doesnt seem to have teleportation here.

"Without him catching on." Doma would catch on Elsa obviously keeping her distance by actively creating platforms to get further away from him, even with Elsa firing ice magicks from a range. It is strange to assume because Elsa doesn't know about Doma's Battle Spirit to avoid it and when she does know about Doma's Battle Spirit, she'd already be effected by PI and FM. Doma's Battle Spirit/Overwhelming Aura isn't visible at all, Elsa couldn't look in the general direction of Doma's location and see his Battle Spirit radiating off of him. What is your argument for Elsa being able to dodge/get around Doma's Battle Spirit despite having absolutely no idea of what that concept even is? (I'm being genuine and I'm not trying to sound condescending) Doma isn't getting frozen by the platforms for the same argument I said with the soldiers. Elsa's IA acts by itself. Elsa herself would be surprised.

I ThiNk "destroy his body part" argument is more solid for this. He'd need a resistance if he were to simply neutralize it as he's stopping literal dura neg ice here which doesnt seem very solid without resistance.

I meant "neutralize" in the way of destroying the body part effected. Doma's exact level of Body Control is unstated in the profile, but if you agree, we can assume it's Control of cells because Doma deconstructed and adapted to Shinobu's poison and well as potientially 700x poison, which would fall neatly under this section.

Ive adressed how this ends up bad for doma above. As we see in the first movie, those who tried to climb her ice stairs fell to their death as she destroyed them from inside her castle, it would be more or less similar to here. He wont be able to scale 30 platforms at once after elsa destroys the 24th one he's on by instinct as she doesnt need hand gestures to form or destroy ice.

What? I didn't see in any of the clips Elsa willfully destroying the stairs. Where are you getting this. The stairs only got destroyed as collateral damage by the ice giant rather than Elsa herself. Doma would be able to scale 30 platforms just fine because the platforms don't have any special properties that's preventing Doma from scaling them. He has Acrobatics. Also, Elsa isn't making the platform disappear from under Doma's feet, he'd see the ice crumbling and speed up to Elsa and Doma isn't dying to fall damage LOL. Elsa destroying the platform on instinct is a weird argument. Do you mean without having to use gestures? Those are two different things. Elsa, in every single time she is consciously using ice magic, has had to aim and direct her hands/body to do it. Elsa would lift her hand at the platform Doma is on and he'd see it crumbling from under him. Basically just the same thing I said from earlier, either scenario leads to the same outcome: Doma scales the platforms.

Also, is it even In-Character for Elsa to be even doing this convoluted plan to beat Doma? Using Platform Creation to make more distance between herself and Doma even after he scales it, repeatedly using Dura Neg after Doma would deal with it the first time, and consciously directing an Island Level ED at Doma? The whole platform creation argument is null because Elsa would be paralyzed before she can even do those shenanigans. Looking at Doma within a certain range just does that to Elsa. This doesn't result in a Stomp because IA/EE would still work.

Indeed. It "freezes" the opponents body stopping them from making a simple movement. She can do this in numerous way not limited to those i mentioned as she has versatility. Even her intelligence section regards that.

That's not accurate. "Stopping them from making a simple movement" isn't what Elsa's ice is shown to do. Anna in the literal final seconds before getting turned into ice could still move, being able to force herself to move faster to protect Elsa. Doma getting hit with Dura Neg doesn't immediately make him helpless. Anna had (I think) a few hours before the Dura Neg even got that bad. Unless we're going to assume 7-C Durability Anna, Elsa's Dura Neg also looks to minimally damage the person effected. Anna even walked this off by continuing her journey afterwards.



The Youtube video I linked gives me more insight on Elsa's ED level attack and IA. Initially, I thought that Doma would've been burst like a grape when it started, but the Island Level ED only seems to be that way because she effected an entire island, rather than destroying it in one go. Those are two different things, as it means that Doma has infinitely more leeway to survive it. Christoph was able to go into basically the effective area of the storm with minimal problems, traversing it with the aforementioned "minimal problems" he was having was dodging the debris trapped in it. The trees in the location are getting No-Sold by Doma. The ED also doesn't have any of the special properties Elsa's ice has because Christoph and Hans would've suffered the same Dura Neg and 7-C AP Anna suffered, unless you want to argue that both men have 7-C durability and immunity to Dura Neg (I'm joking about the 7-C Durability and Dura Neg immunity but my point is still serious: for all intents and purposes the ED is normal ice and snow)
The movie also makes an entire scene of Hans about to kill Elsa, and that only would've made sense if Elsa's IA wouldn't be triggered here. This leads me to believe that with enough sustained stress, Elsa's IA would be defunct. This may actually just be a stomp match since Doma's Overwhelming Aura would over-simulate and render her IA useless, but it can be said that Elsa does have enough of a chance to kill/incapacitate Doma to win the match, just that it's unlikely, which is a perfectly fine thing that still allows for this match to be added.

This can be revoked by danmaku as it covers the whole area and dismantles his body upon contact.

I mean yea, Elsa wins in that case then. I agree. No need to continue from the argument point of "Danmaku kills Doma"

Valid point here. Although it could be strenghten by her emotions although doma can just dodge tbh as its animalistic.

We agree then. No need to continue from this

Its not. She can make ice and ice attacks in numerous ways not named these, even ones we havent seen. These are what hed STRUGGLE with doesnt debunk the fact elsa can deploy attacks in millions of ways as its not limited to gesture.

Doma wouldn't struggle with magical ice dart number #43 after he dodged number #42. There's only so many ways that Elsa can make different "ice attacks" before it blurs together. What do you mean by "even ones we haven't seen,"? That means nothing. I don't even know how to argue against this because it's vague in all the wrong ways. Do you mean Elsa is using a different ability that's connected to ice? Are you saying that she'd do completely new formations of her ice magic to help her? Are you saying that she's just doing Ice Manipulation but different from what Elsa is shown to do?

In all. This makes this battle a stomp, among everything you addressed doesnt take into the fact elsa wouldve been amped by her emotions here and as such her abilities will not be small attacks but centered around AOE [...]

This match isn't a Stomp, it's a Decisive Victory for either party. (Get ready for me to regurgitate this) Neither Doma nor Elsa is unreasonably outmatched by one another. Yes, Elsa having Town Level Durability prevents Doma from physically harming her, but Doma can still absorb her and negate it. I am also arguing that Doma can reasonably survive Elsa's 7-C attacks via Regeneration. Elsa has more ways to win than Doma, but Doma has an easily achieved, consistent, and straight-forward win condition by virtue of his Overwhelming Aura kicking in by Elsa seeing him. (Elsa sees Doma ----> Paralysis ----> Absorption). Yes, this includes Million Danmaku because Elsa has never started with it In-Character in any of her fights. She's shown to do it, yes, but knowing how to cut a tree down with an axe is different from using the axe on a person.

Elsa being amplified by EE doesn't change anything. My points are still the same: Doma dodges. Just because the 7-C ice power is Even Higher in power doesn't make it faster. The AOE attacks aren't crazy fast nor do they occur irregularity enough for Doma to be defeated by them without him being able to do anything. When you refer to AOE, Are you referring to these examples or similar? Doma dodges them. Elsa's AOE isn't some sort of instant-win button that Elsa has at her disposal. More often than not Doma will be either out of the effective range of the AOE or would see it and dodge it. If I'm understanding your meaning of Elsa's AOE, you are saying that Elsa would effect the entirety of her Tens of Meters to Tens of Kilometers range with a few ice projectiles, correct? (Going to wait for your answer before continuing, because I genuinely do not understand what you mean when you keep bringing up AOE)

The best she can do with attacks like danmaku and dura neg, her range also is clearly not limited as the profile suggests otherwise in that section with "at least" and while most of doma's ice attacks are projectiles or defense, elsa's moveset is more versatile and can be adapted to fight against a foe that uses cqc asa ranged magic user.

What? Just...what? I feel like we're going in circles. Yes, Elsa's move-set is more versatile and can be adapted to fight, but Elsa is never shown to do that In-Character and doesn't have abilities to say that Elsa can do those things. I don't even understand what you mean by "more versatile and can be adapted to fight against a foe that uses cqc" Is she adapting to Doma's fighting style? Is she improving her ice defenses against Doma? Making new strategizes against Doma? Like the the previous one, this is too vague because you don't specify how and in what way Elsa is adapting to fight Doma.

Doma has no way of closing the gap aswell as him placing himself on elsa's ice attacks including her platform will cause her to just dismantle it as she does in the first movie with her stairs or freeze doma when he makes contact with them.

I already answered this.

If this matchup were possible, elsa would give it her all here while her attack power and range increases the more pain she feels and doma with all the skill he has have no way of escaping these range attacks without quick teleportation or smt of the sorth.

W-what? "Attack power and range increases" What? You're saying that the literal first seconds of the fight Elsa is doing Million Danmaku? That she's immediately summoning all of the power of her ice to kill Doma? That is something she has never shown to do and wouldn't theoretically do given her In-Character personality.

Elsa can use her ice to detect things around her, her ice can reach distances furthur than she can see and even if doma sees her first, elsa would eventually see him and so the battle starts, that isnt a major wincon. Once he gets into a hundred meter range, she'd see him and the battlefield theyre on is a open oasis.

Show me a scan of Elsa using ice to detect the things around. That ability isn't in her profile so it shouldn't be used, but I'm not sure if you meant something else. That makes the proceeding sentences invalid.

Elsa can use her ice to detect things around her, her ice can reach distances furthur than she can see and even if doma sees her first, elsa would eventually see him and so the battle starts, that isnt a major wincon. Once he gets into a hundred meter range, she'd see him and the battlefield theyre on is a open oasis.

Elsa in this match will be eager to kill doma here and not in princess mode. In agony but concious allowing her to use her growth in power wisely against a cqc foe. Doma using skill to evade elsa's attacks will only make else use her attacks that cover a ground he can no longer dodge extending hundreds of meters up to a kilometer possibly causing the arendalle storm if it keeps up. Doma can analize and dodge all he wants but elsa can easily expand range and use attacks from underground or spawn attacks on him with precision which he cant anticipate or dodge due to same speed and well..... he wont expect it without seeing it once as it seems thats how his ANPR works. Elsa wont stick to the same moves over and over like u make it out to be especially in a bloodlusted state but will constantly send huge attacks and storms in doma's direction and he'd eventually circum to ice freeze which he wouldnt regen from without a resistance to ice manipulation. There's simply no way around the range difference between these characters especially for a cqc fighter.

This entire paragraph is rendered invalid because it is a Fallacy of False Premise. Please prove me wrong if I am (I'm being genuine, I saw this paragraph and I think it's completely outlandish from any parameters of Elsa's personality, SBA, and how the battle would even play out, but I'm open to correction)

And this point which is brought up in recent arguments.

1. First point is balant and narrow, IA usually makes anyone who has it react to physical attacks albeit elsa's extends to projectiles like arrows and explosions. Sometime's even sheilding her then impaling the striker with spikes.
2. Most IA are like this, it isnt a special quirk that makes them conparable, the point of IA is to react to ANY attack upon instinct. And akaza needing to activate this debunks your own point against them being comparable as elsa's is always active.
3. Elsa can aswell albeit not on her profile so idk if this is even applicable unless we agree upon it.
4. In different ways, elsa's is boosted by emotion, will and how she percieves herself. It's not really overall based on battle growth like akaza's.

1. Yes, first point is obvious, but isn't narrow (Unless you mean the second meaning of Narrow instead rather than the bullet under it) and you seem to agree that they're comparable in this point? Where does "explosions" come from?

P.S: I think you're confusing what Elsa's IA is. Taking your sentence of "then impaling the striker with spikes," that actually isn't her IA. She's doing it by herself (5 seconds into the video) and wouldn't extend to IA. In fact, the entire fight scene was done with no IA what-so-ever and even further proves that Elsa's IA has it's limitations (Why else would the writers specifically focus on the soldier about to shoot Elsa if her IA would've stopped it anyways?) It seems as though her IA is only active when she is alert and even then it occurs occasionally, since it should've stopped the proceeding chandelier from falling on her. I think the limitations are that she has to be both aware of the danger and that she has to be somewhat afraid/not willing to fight


2. Akaza needing to activate it doesn't debunk my point, as I've stated that from the point of activation it is passive. Unless a theoretical opponent blitzes Akaza faster than he can activate Compass Needle, he will always have IA, as an In-Character Akaza starts every one of his fights with Compass Needle. In my P.S, I've proven that Elsa's IA has limitations and isn't always activate. If that argument isn't accepted, then it doesn't change that they aren't comparable since IA is IA no matter how it is gained.


3. It's not on her profile and can't be reasonable assumed, so it's not going to be accepted.


4. "By emotion, will, and how she perceives herself" Will isn't accepted past the point of having it be Supernatural Willpower. Unless you mean the faculty by which Elsa will decide on and initiates action, then Will isn't accepted. Perceiving herself is wrong, because at no point does the movie or profile ever include that this is a part of it. Akaza looks at a person's "Battle Spirit" which is very clearly defined as an emotion. Compass Needle's perception can even sense a baby's tiny fighting spirit (Can't find the panel, tell me if you want to see it)

I'd say due to the passive growth of her IA in this battle, it would eventually surpass akaza's in potency as it really depends on how stressed she is and doma's battle spirit upscaling from so many individual's in ds would have a bad effect on elsa making the stress real as hell. And if i forgot, Her IA would so destroy doma even with his experience as it will continue to grow until she stops herself which isnt happening as her sister aint there lol. Doma will have no room to breathe and will use his time dodging and anticipating more than creeping up on a elsa who is concious and is actively moving away from his fighting spirit due to her mobilityenhanced by her platforms to heaven.

Doma's battle spirit makes this match a stomp and even if we agreed that she overcomes it to fight, it wont be added to profiles.k

That's not how Elsa's passive growth works. Elsa isn't getting crazily strong within seconds of time. It's slow and wouldn't play a factor in the fight unless they're going at it for months. The whole paragraph is unusable because it works off a wrong premise.


Doma's Battle Spirit doesn't make the match a Stomp. They start 4 Kilometers away for a reason. It's not like Elsa can do absolutely nothing to kill Doma before Battle Spirit comes in. Rather, Doma's Battle Spirit makes the match a decisive victory.

 

[Catbowtie]

Bump

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

"Spawning ice on the opponent" How does that one work? Where did that come from?


Anna, a literal human with no abilities, could tell that Elsa's ice was effecting her physically. It's not like Elsa's Dura Neg creeps up on the person. Doma would get hit, feel his movements become slower (because Frozen 2 doesn't make it as though Anna didn't even know she had a sickness, she did), and look into his own body to see what's up. If Doma couldn't use Body Control to separate the effected areas from the rest of his body, he's aborting his body by regenerating a new one.



Doma has a counter. Seconds? Where does that come from? Doma could very easily self-amputate to leave the effected body behind and regenerate a new one. The Ice doesn't have a speed higher than Superhuman (It'd be ****** if Elsa could keep her Subsonic reactions, or maybe I've been doing this wrong and Doma has Subsonic combat speed? I don't know) From the videos I've seen of Elsa's ice, it's spreading at a fast but not instant speed.


They should put it as Limited. Could be very misleading depending on a person's interpretation.


Where is the ice spawning inside his body coming from? Is that Elsa's Dura Neg? Doma is cutting off a finger and regenerating from that finger. Doma is absolutely getting caught off-guard when Elsa decides to attack his organs, but he'd deal with it via Body Control once it started spreading. Is the big ball of snow you're referring to this? (That's funny) Doma isn't getting hit by that (It's so cartoon-ish LOL) and if he is, he regenerates it. Elsa's Dura Neg is fairly obviously a conscious application of her magicks, so the first rain of Danmaku isn't shid-stomping Doma. Would Elsa even know to use her Dura Neg attacks? When she blows off a good Doma's body with a 7-C ice attack/Danmaku and he regenerates it, how valid is her next thought of "I should attack his organs/mind this time!" sound? Is she even going to continue to use Dura Neg after Doma deals with it (Body Control) the first time he's hit with it? Also yes, if that's what you meant by Versatile, then I agree.



The amputate thing is straight forward. Doma sees a frozen body part spreading, he cuts it. Also with the Speed Equalization, I'm not sure, but okay. I'll take your word for it. Yea no, Doma is not regenerating from millions of dura neg Danmaku with every single one of them being 7-C, he gets turned into red paint. It's just the when part that I'm debating. If that doesn't happen before Doma can get to Elsa and have Overwhelming Aura do it's Paralysis Inducement, that's a win for Doma.

I don't see a calculation for Elsa's Superhuman speed, so I'll assume the baseline of 12.43 m/s. From the range of 4 kilometers, it'd take 5 minutes, 22 seconds for Doma to get to Elsa. Is Elsa busting out million Danmaku by minute 3 to 4? Does her ED trigger within that timeframe? As soon as Elsa gets within Overwhelming Aura range, that's Ggs with room for failure on Doma's part (Yes I know I repeated the same thing let me cook). I do believe that Elsa's ED and IA/EE remain somewhat unaffected by Paralysis Inducement, because sometimes it's triggered by Elsa moving but can also act on it's on in some situations, but I still believe Doma takes the win from there. Doma would get around rudimentary IA that has parallels with Akaza's.


True. Doma can still dodge it because the time it takes for the ice to cover that range is enough time for him to see it and avoid it's trajectory.


Her kilometers of range comes from her ED. Doma's Battle Spirit only starts to take effect when Elsa sees Doma or like within some meters of him. Kilometer range is only applicable if ED immediately starts because of SBA. Elsa is never shown or calculated shooting ice magicks at kilometers of range that isn't her ED.


"Without him catching on." Doma would catch on Elsa obviously keeping her distance by actively creating platforms to get further away from him, even with Elsa firing ice magicks from a range. It is strange to assume because Elsa doesn't know about Doma's Battle Spirit to avoid it and when she does know about Doma's Battle Spirit, she'd already be effected by PI and FM. Doma's Battle Spirit/Overwhelming Aura isn't visible at all, Elsa couldn't look in the general direction of Doma's location and see his Battle Spirit radiating off of him. What is your argument for Elsa being able to dodge/get around Doma's Battle Spirit despite having absolutely no idea of what that concept even is? (I'm being genuine and I'm not trying to sound condescending) Doma isn't getting frozen by the platforms for the same argument I said with the soldiers. Elsa's IA acts by itself. Elsa herself would be surprised.



I meant "neutralize" in the way of destroying the body part effected. Doma's exact level of Body Control is unstated in the profile, but if you agree, we can assume it's Control of cells because Doma deconstructed and adapted to Shinobu's poison and well as potientially 700x poison, which would fall neatly under this section.



What? I didn't see in any of the clips Elsa willfully destroying the stairs. Where are you getting this. The stairs only got destroyed as collateral damage by the ice giant rather than Elsa herself. Doma would be able to scale 30 platforms just fine because the platforms don't have any special properties that's preventing Doma from scaling them. He has Acrobatics. Also, Elsa isn't making the platform disappear from under Doma's feet, he'd see the ice crumbling and speed up to Elsa and Doma isn't dying to fall damage LOL. Elsa destroying the platform on instinct is a weird argument. Do you mean without having to use gestures? Those are two different things. Elsa, in every single time she is consciously using ice magic, has had to aim and direct her hands/body to do it. Elsa would lift her hand at the platform Doma is on and he'd see it crumbling from under him. Basically just the same thing I said from earlier, either scenario leads to the same outcome: Doma scales the platforms.

Also, is it even In-Character for Elsa to be even doing this convoluted plan to beat Doma? Using Platform Creation to make more distance between herself and Doma even after he scales it, repeatedly using Dura Neg after Doma would deal with it the first time, and consciously directing an Island Level ED at Doma? The whole platform creation argument is null because Elsa would be paralyzed before she can even do those shenanigans. Looking at Doma within a certain range just does that to Elsa. This doesn't result in a Stomp because IA/EE would still work.


That's not accurate. "Stopping them from making a simple movement" isn't what Elsa's ice is shown to do. Anna in the literal final seconds before getting turned into ice could still move, being able to force herself to move faster to protect Elsa. Doma getting hit with Dura Neg doesn't immediately make him helpless. Anna had (I think) a few hours before the Dura Neg even got that bad. Unless we're going to assume 7-C Durability Anna, Elsa's Dura Neg also looks to minimally damage the person effected. Anna even walked this off by continuing her journey afterwards.



The Youtube video I linked gives me more insight on Elsa's ED level attack and IA. Initially, I thought that Doma would've been burst like a grape when it started, but the Island Level ED only seems to be that way because she effected an entire island, rather than destroying it in one go. Those are two different things, as it means that Doma has infinitely more leeway to survive it. Christoph was able to go into basically the effective area of the storm with minimal problems, traversing it with the aforementioned "minimal problems" he was having was dodging the debris trapped in it. The trees in the location are getting No-Sold by Doma. The ED also doesn't have any of the special properties Elsa's ice has because Christoph and Hans would've suffered the same Dura Neg and 7-C AP Anna suffered, unless you want to argue that both men have 7-C durability and immunity to Dura Neg (I'm joking about the 7-C Durability and Dura Neg immunity but my point is still serious: for all intents and purposes the ED is normal ice and snow)
The movie also makes an entire scene of Hans about to kill Elsa, and that only would've made sense if Elsa's IA wouldn't be triggered here. This leads me to believe that with enough sustained stress, Elsa's IA would be defunct. This may actually just be a stomp match since Doma's Overwhelming Aura would over-simulate and render her IA useless, but it can be said that Elsa does have enough of a chance to kill/incapacitate Doma to win the match, just that it's unlikely, which is a perfectly fine thing that still allows for this match to be added.



I mean yea, Elsa wins in that case then. I agree. No need to continue from the argument point of "Danmaku kills Doma"



We agree then. No need to continue from this



Doma wouldn't struggle with magical ice dart number #43 after he dodged number #42. There's only so many ways that Elsa can make different "ice attacks" before it blurs together. What do you mean by "even ones we haven't seen,"? That means nothing. I don't even know how to argue against this because it's vague in all the wrong ways. Do you mean Elsa is using a different ability that's connected to ice? Are you saying that she'd do completely new formations of her ice magic to help her? Are you saying that she's just doing Ice Manipulation but different from what Elsa is shown to do?




This match isn't a Stomp, it's a Decisive Victory for either party. (Get ready for me to regurgitate this) Neither Doma nor Elsa is unreasonably outmatched by one another. Yes, Elsa having Town Level Durability prevents Doma from physically harming her, but Doma can still absorb her and negate it. I am also arguing that Doma can reasonably survive Elsa's 7-C attacks via Regeneration. Elsa has more ways to win than Doma, but Doma has an easily achieved, consistent, and straight-forward win condition by virtue of his Overwhelming Aura kicking in by Elsa seeing him. (Elsa sees Doma ----> Paralysis ----> Absorption). Yes, this includes Million Danmaku because Elsa has never started with it In-Character in any of her fights. She's shown to do it, yes, but knowing how to cut a tree down with an axe is different from using the axe on a person.

Elsa being amplified by EE doesn't change anything. My points are still the same: Doma dodges. Just because the 7-C ice power is Even Higher in power doesn't make it faster. The AOE attacks aren't crazy fast nor do they occur irregularity enough for Doma to be defeated by them without him being able to do anything. When you refer to AOE, Are you referring to these examples or similar? Doma dodges them. Elsa's AOE isn't some sort of instant-win button that Elsa has at her disposal. More often than not Doma will be either out of the effective range of the AOE or would see it and dodge it. If I'm understanding your meaning of Elsa's AOE, you are saying that Elsa would effect the entirety of her Tens of Meters to Tens of Kilometers range with a few ice projectiles, correct? (Going to wait for your answer before continuing, because I genuinely do not understand what you mean when you keep bringing up AOE)



What? Just...what? I feel like we're going in circles. Yes, Elsa's move-set is more versatile and can be adapted to fight, but Elsa is never shown to do that In-Character and doesn't have abilities to say that Elsa can do those things. I don't even understand what you mean by "more versatile and can be adapted to fight against a foe that uses cqc" Is she adapting to Doma's fighting style? Is she improving her ice defenses against Doma? Making new strategizes against Doma? Like the the previous one, this is too vague because you don't specify how and in what way Elsa is adapting to fight Doma.



I already answered this.


W-what? "Attack power and range increases" What? You're saying that the literal first seconds of the fight Elsa is doing Million Danmaku? That she's immediately summoning all of the power of her ice to kill Doma? That is something she has never shown to do and wouldn't theoretically do given her In-Character personality.



Show me a scan of Elsa using ice to detect the things around. That ability isn't in her profile so it shouldn't be used, but I'm not sure if you meant something else. That makes the proceeding sentences invalid.



This entire paragraph is rendered invalid because it is a Fallacy of False Premise. Please prove me wrong if I am (I'm being genuine, I saw this paragraph and I think it's completely outlandish from any parameters of Elsa's personality, SBA, and how the battle would even play out, but I'm open to correction)




1. Yes, first point is obvious, but isn't narrow (Unless you mean the second meaning of Narrow instead rather than the bullet under it) and you seem to agree that they're comparable in this point? Where does "explosions" come from?

P.S: I think you're confusing what Elsa's IA is. Taking your sentence of "then impaling the striker with spikes," that actually isn't her IA. She's doing it by herself (5 seconds into the video) and wouldn't extend to IA. In fact, the entire fight scene was done with no IA what-so-ever and even further proves that Elsa's IA has it's limitations (Why else would the writers specifically focus on the soldier about to shoot Elsa if her IA would've stopped it anyways?) It seems as though her IA is only active when she is alert and even then it occurs occasionally, since it should've stopped the proceeding chandelier from falling on her. I think the limitations are that she has to be both aware of the danger and that she has to be somewhat afraid/not willing to fight


2. Akaza needing to activate it doesn't debunk my point, as I've stated that from the point of activation it is passive. Unless a theoretical opponent blitzes Akaza faster than he can activate Compass Needle, he will always have IA, as an In-Character Akaza starts every one of his fights with Compass Needle. In my P.S, I've proven that Elsa's IA has limitations and isn't always activate. If that argument isn't accepted, then it doesn't change that they aren't comparable since IA is IA no matter how it is gained.


3. It's not on her profile and can't be reasonable assumed, so it's not going to be accepted.


4. "By emotion, will, and how she perceives herself" Will isn't accepted past the point of having it be Supernatural Willpower. Unless you mean the faculty by which Elsa will decide on and initiates action, then Will isn't accepted. Perceiving herself is wrong, because at no point does the movie or profile ever include that this is a part of it. Akaza looks at a person's "Battle Spirit" which is very clearly defined as an emotion. Compass Needle's perception can even sense a baby's tiny fighting spirit (Can't find the panel, tell me if you want to see it)



That's not how Elsa's passive growth works. Elsa isn't getting crazily strong within seconds of time. It's slow and wouldn't play a factor in the fight unless they're going at it for months. The whole paragraph is unusable because it works off a wrong premise.


Doma's Battle Spirit doesn't make the match a Stomp. They start 4 Kilometers away for a reason. It's not like Elsa can do absolutely nothing to kill Doma before Battle Spirit comes in. Rather, Doma's Battle Spirit makes the match a decisive victory.

I'll respond later. I have exams

 

[Catbowtie]

Bump

 

[Catbowtie]

Bump

 

[Catbowtie]

Bump

 

[Catbowtie]

Bump

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Bump

I vote incon btw, dealing with so many threads rn that i cant keep up. In summary, i went off the profile and my vague knowledge of the movie from yeears back. I thought her ice maniplulation could spread across her victims fast enough to incacipate them but since its slow, doumas body control could deal with that. Doma's battle spirit might make this a stomp tho, sure it wont be induced until he's in range but once he is, elsa wont have any wincons. If she's paralyzed she cant cover doma in ice with her own conciousness and her IA would be stopped aswell because her whole conciousness is paralyzed and she's slowly dying because of doma's battle spirit, it also means her emotional boost wont be applicable because she wont be able to tap into her emotions while paralyzed.

 

[Catbowtie]

Counted. Now it's time to sink into the endless abyss of bumping (I could argue some more but it's superficial at this point)

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Counted. Now it's time to sink into the endless abyss of bumping (I could argue some more but it's superficial at this point)

ive been bumping 7+ threads for months now, my pain is far greater than yours.

 

[Catbowtie]

@Cimafranca133 anything to possibly add? I saw you popped in at the start.

 

[Catbowtie]

ive been bumping 7+ threads for months now, my pain is far greater than yours.