Nullflowerblush
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anime
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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
Nullflowerblush
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According to the El Manga Legendario, Vegeta could not even calculate the increase in strength that Zarbon received after transforming. Is this enough for his transformation to scale above Kaio-ken x4, or is that against the Multipliers rules?
Nullflowerblush
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WAIT
10X????
THEY WERE LIKE COMPARING IT TO GREAT APE
10X????
THEY WERE LIKE COMPARING IT TO GREAT APE
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If Goten had trained for that half of a year he would have one shot Cell Max and made Black Freeza run away to his Time Chamber to train for at least 20 years.
10x Multiplier for Zarbon's transformation? Damn.
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No of course not. This is just promotional material, a fancy advertisement basically.
Nullflowerblush
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Patch notes released.
New wincon against Satoru Gojo: if the entirety of the spatial dimension is affected, Satoru and the Limitless are affected, too.
New wincon against Satoru Gojo: if the entirety of the spatial dimension is affected, Satoru and the Limitless are affected, too.
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Huh? Wait so are you referring to like, some inconsistent statement, the scaling on the wiki, or are you actually saying that as a fact? Because there is like, a veritable mountain of evidence suggesting base Goku by the Buu Saga would humiliate and bully his Namek Saga SSJ self.
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Ah yes, Gojo, my favorite Dragon Ball character.
Nullflowerblush
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Beerus being a nutjob.
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That's what I was assuming.
The most likely explanation is that Goku was just suppressed and, while Beerus could probably tell that he was suppressed, he couldn't tell how much. But it's kind of contradicted by him going like "Oh now it makes sense" when Goku goes Super Saiyan, implying that Goku's Super Saiyan power was the same level, even though everything in the entire franchise goes against the idea and makes it laughably stupid.
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As we were discussing, powerscaling is pretty ridiculous in Dragon Ball. Again, Beerus claims Goku couldn't beat Freeza after the Buu Saga in his base form but then Goku grows hundreds of millions of times stronger over the course of Super.
The point is that it doesn't make much sense at all. It's silly.
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So, is there any reason Goku (and maybe any character scaling to or above him in BoG) couldn't kill Gojo with shockwaves?
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Well it's just one inconsistent and irrelevant statement. Beerus was just wrong. I agree anyways.
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A true saiyan games before he gains Kakarot
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Kakarot..cough cough wheeze the League of Legends chat...is too strong...I hate to admit it but we need fusion.
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I have some problem with this
This isn't something exclusively belong to SSJ2 and higher form i believe, this is Ki thing, everyone can generate electricity with their aura like how Gohan powered up into Power Unleashed state the first time, sometime SSJ1 aura have electricity so this should be removed
I believe we all know this thing is Ki thing, not something exclusively belong to SSJ3, Super Buu did this, and he isn't Saiyan, DBS Vegeta did a better feat by blow up Room of Spirit and Time in his Base form, and also didn't we have guidebook for this??, so this is just Ki thing when users reach to a certain level of power, this should be removed from Physiology page
BlastX
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it's kinda funny because if you go to the Kanzenshuu forums (and other places) people swear up and down that Goku never surpassed Full Power Freezer in base form and they take Beerus word as the complete decisive factor over it and dismiss all other evidence.
BlastX
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The simple explanation is retcon, back when he first showed up Beerus wasn't that much stronger than Godku, in fact Godku matched 60% of his power.
But because the series was gonna continue and Beerus still needed to be a goal to be surpassed, his power was retconned to be higher to the point BoG Godku was a mosquito to him.
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Plus in the movie continuity the most impressive feats/statements were Whis saying Beerus would destroy the Solar system, Beerus destroying multiple celestial bodies after eating wasabi and Whis being able to rewind time as well as been shown/stated to be above Beerus in terms of power.
In the anime SSG Goku Vs (ungodly suppressed) Beerus was sending shockwaves across the U7 local cosmology with Elder Kai they would destroy everything (including the Kaioshin realm which previously withstood Kid Buu Vs SSj3 Goku, Good Buu and SSj2 Vegeta) plus the 6/10/15 scale essentially got scrapped by the U6 Vs U7 arc (maybe earlier). Probably one of the first times I saw a retcon actually benefit powercreep.
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Explain, please.
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This is a gigantic spoiler from JJK, but
Sukuna killed Gojo by targeting a cut to space itself, which ignored Gojo's mugen
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So what you’re saying is now, canonically, Buu Saga high tier characters can get through the Limitless by screaming really ******* hard?
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yes, and basically almost every character that can affect space directly
Nullflowerblush
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不可侵など関係なくその空間世界に存在する限りその空間世界ごと存在を分断される
"Regardless of whether it is inviolable or not, as long as it exists in that spatial world, its existence will be divided along with that spatial world."
"Regardless of whether it is inviolable or not, as long as it exists in that spatial world, its existence will be divided along with that spatial world."
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Alrighty new chapter is out and I'm already seeing great stuff for scaling.
So in short, we have a LOT more scaling justifying Goten and Trunks being on par with the Gammas after not training at all for over six months.
Krillin shows more confidence in Goten and Trunks then the draft translations indicated. And Bulma confirms they had ZERO training in half a year.
Goten and Trunks take Cell Max on without the Gammas for a bit, showing Goten's blast smash Cell Max to the ground. The Gammas comment "Those two...aren't half-bad." They then fly around to Cell Max's back as he's getting up and slam him back down with a combined energy wave.
The Gammas praise them again and then Gamma 1 realises the they resemble eachother. Realising Hedo based them off Goten and Trunks.
Goten and Trunks declare they'll beat Cell Max themselves just for the Gammas to jump in and help. Their four-man combo attack smashes Cell Max away and deals damage.
Gohan and Piccolo praise them for how well they're doing and Gohan states he has enough energy to turn Super Saiyan again.
After all this, Cell Max powers up and begins to dominate the fight. Blitzing the Gammas and smashing Trunks, Gamma 2, Gamma 1 and Goten one after the other with seemingly the same force, harming all of them.
Gohan and Piccolo mention Cell Max is learning as he fights and is growing stronger over time. We then see Goten and Trunks choose to fuse after seeing the power increase (implying they saw no reason to fuse against the Cell Max who was fighting Gamma 1 and 2 at the same time)
They fuse into Fat Gotenks who takes a blow from the powered up Cell Max and takes a bit of damage, prompting Gohan and Piccolo to enter the fight. Cell Max dominates Ultimate Piccolo and SS1 Gohan however.
Gamma 2 explains Cell Max's weakpoint but interestingly states that whoever destroys his head will also die in the explosion, saying it will obliterate every single one of Cell Max's cells 'and then some'.
Ultimate Piccolo blasts Cell Max's head like in the movie and does no damage.
Big W for Krillin fans because in this version he actually saves Pan.
Chapter ends with Gamma 2 resolving to sacrifice himself.
Goten and Trunks take Cell Max on without the Gammas for a bit, showing Goten's blast smash Cell Max to the ground. The Gammas comment "Those two...aren't half-bad." They then fly around to Cell Max's back as he's getting up and slam him back down with a combined energy wave.
The Gammas praise them again and then Gamma 1 realises the they resemble eachother. Realising Hedo based them off Goten and Trunks.
Goten and Trunks declare they'll beat Cell Max themselves just for the Gammas to jump in and help. Their four-man combo attack smashes Cell Max away and deals damage.
Gohan and Piccolo praise them for how well they're doing and Gohan states he has enough energy to turn Super Saiyan again.
After all this, Cell Max powers up and begins to dominate the fight. Blitzing the Gammas and smashing Trunks, Gamma 2, Gamma 1 and Goten one after the other with seemingly the same force, harming all of them.
Gohan and Piccolo mention Cell Max is learning as he fights and is growing stronger over time. We then see Goten and Trunks choose to fuse after seeing the power increase (implying they saw no reason to fuse against the Cell Max who was fighting Gamma 1 and 2 at the same time)
They fuse into Fat Gotenks who takes a blow from the powered up Cell Max and takes a bit of damage, prompting Gohan and Piccolo to enter the fight. Cell Max dominates Ultimate Piccolo and SS1 Gohan however.
Gamma 2 explains Cell Max's weakpoint but interestingly states that whoever destroys his head will also die in the explosion, saying it will obliterate every single one of Cell Max's cells 'and then some'.
Ultimate Piccolo blasts Cell Max's head like in the movie and does no damage.
Big W for Krillin fans because in this version he actually saves Pan.
Chapter ends with Gamma 2 resolving to sacrifice himself.
So in short, we have a LOT more scaling justifying Goten and Trunks being on par with the Gammas after not training at all for over six months.
Nullflowerblush
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from cell jrs to cell max with zero training
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Clearly those Cell Jrs prepared them for bugmen.
That's entirely possible. Fat Gotenks does take a hit from the powered up Cell Max and I believe fusion was accepted as an at least 500x multiplier with Goten and Trunks scaling to the Gammas (who are Ult Gohan-level) then can stack SS3.
SS3 Gotenks should be 5,000x stronger than Ultimate Gohan via that logic.
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Wait couldn't we scale Beast form with that logic
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Welll if I recall the wording correctly, a hypothetical current ssj3 Gotenks wasn't born yet, no?
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Where ya get this at?
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Feeling very sick today, so might make some serious errors here.
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Anyways I figured I'd try to scale how powerful Gotenks would be:
Based upon that we can make some assumptions regarding Ultra Instinct's multiplier. Which is the idea that UI is often compared to SSB fusions, Piccolo stating Fusion wouldn't work on Moro (Implying Moro is fast enough to tag CSSB fusions) and DBS Broly's depiction of scaling.
So overall SS3 Gotenks can range from 1/2,500th the power of UI Goku/UI Moro to being 10x stronger than them based off the minimum and maximum Fusion multiplier I can reasonably find via scaling. That's when Goten and Trunks had zero training for half a year.
I'm not sure because we haven't seen how Gotenks would actually fair against Cell Max. Goten and Trunks seem to believe they could have beaten Cell Max with it and they were resorting to it after he powered up and started blitzing them and the Gammas.
No, but we have a minimum for Fusion multiplier and can speculate. We wouldn't be able to make a profile including a hypothetical Teen Gotenks though.
Just going off Beerus's claim that Goku couldn't beat Freeza in base form. I don't agree with it it was just an example of how the narrative is trying to present power growth in DB.
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Anyways I figured I'd try to scale how powerful Gotenks would be:
- SS1 Goten should at least scale to CSSB Goku (Moro) based off Piccolo's comments for the Gammas.
- Fusion is accepted as an 'at least' 500x multiplier
- Therefore SS1 Gotenks would be 500x stronger than SS1 Goten (or Moro CSSBs)
- SS3 Gotenks would be over 5,000x stronger
Based upon that we can make some assumptions regarding Ultra Instinct's multiplier. Which is the idea that UI is often compared to SSB fusions, Piccolo stating Fusion wouldn't work on Moro (Implying Moro is fast enough to tag CSSB fusions) and DBS Broly's depiction of scaling.
- Gogeta is stated on his profile to surpass CSSB Goku in even his base form, so we can go off from there.
- UI Goku ~ CSSB Gogeta (12,500,000x) >>>> Base Gogeta = CSSB Goku
UI Goku (Moro) ~ CSSB Gogeta (Moro) > (12,500,000x) >> (2,500x) >> SS3 Gotenks >> (25,000x) >> SS1 Gotenks >> Base Gogeta = CSSB Goku = SS1 Goten (SH)
So I believe it's reasonable to say (SH) SS3 Gotenks is at least 1/2,500th the power of UI Goku (Moro). However if we argue Gotenks has the same multiplier as Gogeta then:SS3 Gotenks > (10x) >UI Goku (Moro) ~ CSSB Gogeta (Moro) ~ SS1 Gotenks > (12,500,000x) >> Base Gogeta = CSSB Goku = SS1 Goten (SH)
So overall SS3 Gotenks can range from 1/2,500th the power of UI Goku/UI Moro to being 10x stronger than them based off the minimum and maximum Fusion multiplier I can reasonably find via scaling. That's when Goten and Trunks had zero training for half a year.
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I was talking to the other guy when talking about Beast Gohan not that
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Ah I see, sorry for the misunderstanding then.
As I said I don't think we can use Gotenks to scale Beast currently because the most we know is that Goten/Trunks believed Gotenks could beat Cell Max easily and then when Cell Max powers up they state they need to use it. And I'd imagine he'll continue powering up over the next 2-3 chapters.
MeiouHades
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Nullflowerblush
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"I am so fond of beauty" (Dragon Ball)
Introduction In DBZ:69 • "Zarbon's True Power", Zarbon reveals to Vegeta that, like Saiyans, he, too, is a "transforming-type" alien, exchanging his beauty for ugliness derived from strength. DRAGON BALL FOREVER explains that when he transforms, "[his] strength and speed jumps several times"...
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