Pokémon Physiology 2: Reunuploaded

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

This is my second thread listing my attempts to upload a physiology page for Pokémon.


Since last time, I've cited EVERY SINGLE non-website feat or statement linked on the profile and linked better sources for several other abilities.

Furthermore, upon overwhelming request, I have removed Matter/Light Manipulation.


Please remember that Ploz's Shadow Pokémon subsection must be evaluated too in order for both to be uploaded.

Please God just let the pain end with this thread

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

I still approve of Pokemon physiology

 

[SamanPatou]

My stance is the same of the other thread for the same reasons plus a couple more.

No Reactive Evolution because it doesn't fit the definition of the power itself, Pokémon don't evolve in response to external threats to develop new physical traits, powers resistances etc. They just grow and transform. Evolution is just a word to define the transformation process, and it's not reactive, it's always the same for all Pokémon.

No Body Control because you are extending to all Pokémon a property that has been demonstrated by a single one without evidences that every other Pokémon can do the same.

No Regeneration because you're taking as literal both toon force gags and game animation, which aren't an accurate representation of reality, and it's extended to all Pokémon just because you can perform moves on everyone in-game.

No resistance to Acid because you're giving specific properties to something (Gastro Acid) that never demonstrated them.

No Resistance to AZ because not dying from something isn't resistance, this is a rule that is already extended to the whole wiki.

No Resistance to Pressure Points because they still are damaged by being hit in said spots. The result of being hit in Pressure Points varies in fiction, they are not the same in HnK, DB or Pokémon.

Lastly, I would remove the thing about trainers becoming more intelligent because it doesn't have anything to do with the Pokémon and has no reason to stay in such page.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

...That's often exactly what Pokémon do when they evolve. In fact there have been countless situations where Pokémon evolve mid-battle because of this, or when it's not mid-battle it's either due to fighting countless battles or in reaction to something else.

I don't think you understand how many Pokémon have been fat. And Chespin aren't known for their metabolism.

Dude, Crash Bandicoot has the same Regeneration because he comes back from being flattened in a racing game... despite the fact that being flattened in a main game instantly kills him. Besides if they don't get this from Regeneration, they should get it from, by your words, Toon Force instead. (Actually, would Regeneration via Toon Force work?)

Gastro Acid is literally a Pokémon's stomach acid. That means it HAS to be acidic enough to break down any food the Pokémon eats, or the food will just sit in the Pokémon's body forever.

Not dying or even fainting from something that normally kills people no matter what does count as resistance.

It's resistance because they're ONLY damaged. If Kenshiro tried to make Pikachu explode, it would only count as a Critical Hit.

The reason it's there is because it comes from the fact that they train Pokémon.

 

[SamanPatou]

That's not the definition of Reactive Evolution though, check the page. What you say is either accelerated development (that they already have on your page and on which I agree) or Reactive Power Level. To have reactive evolution Pokémon should be able to develope self-sustenance if thrown into space, fireproof skin if hit by flames and so on, that's not what Poké Evolution is.

It doesn't matter, you have to prove that all Pokémon can do it, it's a NLF otherwise.

I'm not knowledgeable in Crash, but if it's wrong that it's not an excuse for make it wrong even here, you can always make a CRT you you think it should be removed. And toon force isn't something consistent, it's very much limited to some specific instances of the anime, and in the previous thread I said I can settle with "Occasional Toon Force" or similar being mentioned, but just that.

Even humans have stomach acids but vomiting over each others doesn't grant us resistance to acid. That move negs abilities and there's no evidence it does something else.

I will open a thread in the question forum, because it's in fact dubious the thing.

At most you can say that they will not explode because they have their own physiological pressure point, but what you are proposing is verse equalization, which is allowed only in specific vs threads. In-universe Pokémon just suffer from being hit in said points, so they don't resist.

I'm not quite sure it's an actual power or only the result of sheer training, and worded in that way sounds like power bestowal.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Why would it be either of those if it's described as the ability to rapidly adapt to their environment? (Actually this could be another bullet point in Adaptation)

Clemont wasn't having it lose weight because it was a Chespin.

Toon Force may not be consistent, but Pokémon surviving getting flattened is.

Humans don't vomit stomach acid. They vomit leftover food or bile. Things would be a lot different if we vomitted stomach acid, lol.

Thank you.

Oh, damn. I'll get rid of it then.

My guess is that it can be done by training, but only Trainers can do it by training.

 

[SamanPatou]

My other problem is that the explanation is very outdated and comes from a time when the concept behind Pokémon as creatures was different from now. Besides, it would fit better Adaptation, as it's more akin to the process behind the regional variants.

Thing is the same, it's a no limit fallacy to extend the power to every Pokémon without actual evidences that they all can just because "The opposite can't be proven".

Being flattened is consistent in said toon force gags and in game animations, which aren't meant to be actual representations of reality and are banned anyway from being used, for example the old Seismic Movement calc thag got axed for said reason.

Fair enough on that, I was wrong on the humans, but I still disagree with it due to being a not-specified effect. For what we know it can be just a special stomach acid that removes abilities as a property but isn't acidic enough to cause damage. Otherwise we pick many status moves and turn them into a form of resistance because they would also deal damage other than having their own effect.

Only trainers can do it because it's strictly related to having Pokémon, but it still isn't part of the Pokémon's physiology, we don't even know if it's an actual power. And the first wasn't something like an advertisement to induce kids at reading, rather than an actual plot point/in-verse explanation?

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Alright, I put it under Adaptation. And it's not too off compared to now.

No Limits Fallacy means something would work no matter how strong the opponent is, not that everyone has an ability.

What "Seismic Movement calc"?

Then that would give every Pokémon who can use the move natural Power Nullification. And that doesn't disprove the Corrosive Gas move either.

Yes but it still applies to all Pokémon. And one would argue that that IS an in-universe explanation because Ash himself is explaining it.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

NLF means you ascribe no limits. That can be done any number of ways.

 

[Ionliosite]

I obviously agree with Saman on this, those abilities should be removed.

 

[SamanPatou]

NFL because you're extending it to everyone without any evidences supporting it, you're the one who has to prove the positive, not me the negative.

A calc about Pokémon dragging opponents in space and slamming them down based on the animation, which has been scrapped because it's not representative of reality. It's the same as them moving the sun and the moon with Sunny Day, Moonlight and such. Game animations can't be used literally.

They have acid manipulation for that move, not power nullification. It's saying that everyone resists acid because only the item is melt to be wrong, otherwise take every status move that should realistically inflict damage along its effect and give Pokémon resistance to said elements because they don't take damage.

Dunno, it doesn't change that much at the end of the day. I'd personally remove it, but I guess it can stay.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Ohhh, you're thinking of Burden of Proof. Yes, I see. I may as well delete that too.

Do you mean Seismic Toss?

What Gastro Acid does is it nullifies an ability. Every Pokémon's stomach acid would be able to do this otherwise. Also I highly doubt Corrosive Gas hits nothing but the item since it's description states "The user surrounds everything around it with highly acidic gas...", chiefly the opposing Pokémon.

Yeah, there's a reason I only use this kind of stuff for supporting feats.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Does anyone else have any other problems with Pokémon Physiology or it's Shadow Pokémon subsection?

 

[Ionliosite]

Shadow Pokémon one looks ok, my issues with the normal one are the ones Saman pointed out.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I already fixed what he said, what would those be?

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Apologies if I reiterate any already brought up points, I haven't read most of the thread and only just read the page

1. SPC: Your example link is broken, but considering all our pokemon have SPC, I don't see a problem with it
2. Stat Amp: I don't think a single quote from the anime and a non-canon source are enough
3. Fusion: I personally don't like it since it's nowhere in the games, but since it's so prevalent in the anime I guess it's alright.
4. Damage Boost: I'm fine with S.T.A.B. but what even is that first pic from? Whatever it is I'm willing to bet it's non-canon
5. PP: My issue here is crits are mostly random suggesting most pokemon aren't purposefully aiming for weak spots. Also, unless you're trying to say pokemon have pressure points, I'm not sure what this has to do with physiology
6. Social Inf: That's the same thing people say about dog owners and it bullshit, I have no easier a time talking to people now that I have a dog and Contests are kind of a unique environment like dog shows.
7. Adapt: That just natural, real world evolution.
8. Accel Devel: I'm cool with EXP being more then just game mechanics. We gotta revise a lotta profiles though.
9. Berserk Power Rage Mode: I mean, Rage is a move so sure, I guess
10. Regen: No. That's Toon force and I don't see anything being incantated in lava in that clip
11. Food healing: I mean, yeah. That kinda ***** been in the games since gen 1
12. NPI: Sure, I guess. If that's how we treat ghost types immunity.
13. Auto Tran: First pic is another potentially non-canon book, second clip is ash being ash, third is unique to that specific movie and it's only pikachu that talks.
14. Enhanced Senses: I agree, but most of your examples are weirdly specific. Like instead of logical examples of pokemon displaying enhanced hearing or smell, here's a list of specific one off instances of random shit.
15. SelfSealing: Not physiology, but sure whatever.
16. Resistances: While I agree with most of these, you're doing that thing again. Some of these are weirdly specific.
17. Element: Fine, no problems here
18. Fear/Disease: Pokerus and fear/intimidation moves affect most all pokemon equally, so no.
19. Poison: This works
20. Acid: Not sure here. The move Acid still damages pokemon and weakens their defensive ability
21. AZ: Assuming it's actually AZ, sure I guess.
22. Smelly: That's fine
23. Sealing: Also works
24. Transmutation: That seems to be unique to MD. Not sure if it should count verse wide.
25. Life force drain: That's not resistance. By this logic I resist getting my bones broken because they will heal over time.
26. Self Rez: No. Nothing is dead in the above pics.

Shadow Pokemon Physiology all looks good. Got no problems with any of that.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

1. It's not for me. I see Gible lifting a house-sized boulder just fine.
2. It is, especially since we count the TCG as usable on this site.
4. I cited what it's from. Pokémon: Pathways to Adventure, a guidebook on the Red and Blue games.
5. It still proves Pokémon are capable of hitting opponents' weak points semi-often, and all Pokémon have ways to guarantee or deliberately score critical hits.
6. That doesn't mean it isn't true about Pokémon trainers, or every IRL dog owner for that matter.
7. Read the second Adaptation bullet point for how Pokémon relate to IRL evolution.
10. A lot of other profiles have Regeneration for being smashed flat. Yes you did; the item that fell into lava WAS the Pokémon.
13. The first picture is from the Pokémon Junior line of books, which is canon to the anime. "Ash being Ash" doesn't prove he's lying, or tell me why you think he's incorrect. It's only "unique to that movie" because of the events that happened in the movie, not that it's in an alternate canon or whatever.
14. Are there less specific examples?
18. Why would different Pokémon being affected by beneficial diseases and fear somewhat the same mean no Pokémon is at all resistant to them?
20. That just means the move is more corrosive than stomach acid or stuff that can melt iron.
24. Tbf there has been very few occasions where something has been transmuted in Pokémon, and far less where a Pokémon has been the victim.
25. If you quickly healed your bones getting snapped in half entirely due to the fact that you want to live, then you would.
26. Having all of your life force (as in what gives you life) removed means you're dead.

Good, I'm glad the Shadow Pokémon don't have problems.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

2/4. Since you were so helpful as to link to our canon explanation page, let's talk about that real quick. What is canon?

• Core series games - obvious, needs no explanation
• Certain spin-off games - It looks like any spin-off that can connect to a core series game is considered canon, which makes sense
• The main anime and game adaptation animes - Also makes sense even if I think they should be separate canons and not composited
• Adventure Manga - Good piece of literature there and makes sense even though, again, it should be separate
• TCG - Now, to quote our own page "because of a lot of events cards which are non-canon to the series, as well as being mostly game-mechanic based and lacking a canon plot, most should only be used in a case by case scenario"

Your claim that those books are canon doesn't seem to be supported by our own standards. Anyway,

5. All pokemon can guarantee a crit? You're gonna have to cite that cause I doubt it.
6. You clearly didn't read what I crossed out, cause that's boldly not true. It takes more then just having a pet.
7. Let me just clarify something. You're talking about regional variants right? It seems to me you're trying to claim that regional variants when they moved to a new environment just poofed up a new type and appearance, which isn't supported by in-game lore. The way it's explained in-lore sounds like IRL evolution which would not be supportive of adding our type of adaptation to there page.
10. And those verses are either wrong or have better support for the feats then pokemon. I'm pretty sure that's just gameplay mechanics, cause there not just gonna let you literally die in lava in the fun kids game about animal advantures
13. Refer to the above statement about canon. "Ash being Ash" means he has those feats. If ya wanna give Ash auto translate, be my guest. He's been doing that shit since episode 1.
14. Pokemon are constantly displaying feats of enhanced senses, like every time pikachu hears or smells something before the rest of the cast, and pokemon with aura powers, but your examples don't include either of those and instead use a bunch of one-off feats that accomplish the same thing but are harder to get approved.
18. Because those are anti-feats to your claim of resistance. You claim a resistance to fear and disease based on a handful of instances related to one pokemon while there are far more cases of these things not being resisted all throughout the franchise.
20. Hold on, I just looked up what Gastro Acid did and how is that supposed to be powerful acid? The Japanese name doesn't even mention acid, it just calls it juice eww. You also claim that Corrosive Gas completely melts away the item, but the bulbapedia page for the move just says it becomes unusable.
25. Nothing in the provided pic suggests as to a time frame for how long it took that scyther to recover.
26. I don't see any reason to assume all of it was gone, just enough to make him passout quickly.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Finally I've added a ton more things so I can get back to this.

2. Yes, and in this case it checks out.
4. The guidebook is for the core series games, so it can be used.
5. IF they have a bond to their Trainer.
6. Just because it's not true in your eyes doesn't mean it's not true at all or it's not true to the Pokémon verse.
7. No, they just changed to this way over time. Not real animal speed, but it's been confirmed ever since the series began that Pokémon adapt MUCH faster than terrestrial animals.
10. Bruh, Crash Bandicoot has Mid Regen for getting flattened in the racing games even though getting flattened normally instakills him. Pokémon can get it when it's consistent.
13. I actually have much more proof on this point now.
18. How is it an anti-feat? It literally shows them surviving things that have killed humans. Just because they react to it at all doesn't mean they automatically aren't affected by it less than humans.
20. If you looked them up, then that means you should have read the games' descriptions of the moves. I suggest you do so.
25. I didn't claim it did.
26. Why would it be in a comatose, dead state if all of it wasn't taken!?!?

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

2/4. Honestly, the canonicity discussion could be it's own drawn out mess, and I'd rather not. I'll just say I disagree and you're welcome to find other opinions to overrule me.
5. Technically, that's still not guaranteed, but I see where you are coming from. I'm still a bit confused though. Are you saying pokemon have pressure points?
6. Refer to second bit of 2/4
7. Regional variants are not the same as "normal pokemon evolution". We have no evidence of, for example a Kantonian Vulpix becoming an Alolan Vulpix or even "evolving" into an Alolan Nintales.
10. Looks like it's time for a Crash revision. Honestly that does sound like Crash supporters are getting away with something over there. Regardless, just because Crash is jumping off a bridge doesn't mean we should too.
13. Much more is two new pics? I'm still not convinced.
18. Pokerus and fear/intimidation moves are the anti-feats. It's much more common of those not being resisted, then your handful of examples of childeren show main characters not dying
20. I think the point here is most pokemon don't resist the other, actually damaging, acid move outside of type resistances. Besides, only pokemon with magic bounce actually resist GA's effect.
25. Wait, are you saying it didn't recover? How does that help your claim of resistance then? I might be confused.
26. Pokemon are literally knocked tf out in battle all the time without dying. Green only mentions some unspecified amount of life energy is stolen. That doesn't mean all of it is gone, just enough to put it in critical condition.

Out of curiosity, what points on the page are completely uncontested?

 

[NeoZex6399]

following

 

[Garchomp777]

I'm gonna go find anime episodes to confirm the acid manipulation resistance

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

2/4. Honestly, the canonicity discussion could be it's own drawn out mess, and I'd rather not. I'll just say I disagree and you're welcome to find other opinions to overrule me.
5. Technically, that's still not guaranteed, but I see where you are coming from. I'm still a bit confused though. Are you saying pokemon have pressure points?
6. Refer to second bit of 2/4
7. Regional variants are not the same as "normal pokemon evolution". We have no evidence of, for example a Kantonian Vulpix becoming an Alolan Vulpix or even "evolving" into an Alolan Nintales.
10. Looks like it's time for a Crash revision. Honestly that does sound like Crash supporters are getting away with something over there. Regardless, just because Crash is jumping off a bridge doesn't mean we should too.
13. Much more is two new pics? I'm still not convinced.
18. Pokerus and fear/intimidation moves are the anti-feats. It's much more common of those not being resisted, then your handful of examples of childeren show main characters not dying
20. I think the point here is most pokemon don't resist the other, actually damaging, acid move outside of type resistances. Besides, only pokemon with magic bounce actually resist GA's effect.
25. Wait, are you saying it didn't recover? How does that help your claim of resistance then? I might be confused.
26. Pokemon are literally knocked tf out in battle all the time without dying. Green only mentions some unspecified amount of life energy is stolen. That doesn't mean all of it is gone, just enough to put it in critical condition.

Out of curiosity, what points on the page are completely uncontested?

Oh my *******...

2. This literally IS the TCG. there's nothing to argue about.
4. Are you telling me that guidebooks are noncanon?
5. What's not guaranteed is that they'll deliberately land a critical hit. If they try to, it WILL work. And yes, I am.
7. That's literally the reason Alolan Vulpixes exist. They don't transform into one in your party because they don't have the need to.
10. Unlike Crash, Pokémon showcasing this ability isn't contradicted. Literally any time a Pokémon dies, which is rare anyways, it's in a way that would require a higher amount of regen than that, like the explosion in The Power of Us that turned a Snubbull to ashes.
13. It's more than you need. And Iris can literally sense incredibly specific things they say because of this.
18. Pokerus doesn't even have negative effects, and those moves are more effective on humans than they are on Pokémon. Just because something CAN be scared doesn't mean it can't resist fear.
20. Except neither of them damage the Pokémon. And Gastro Acid should hurt someone physically due to the mere fact that it is stomach acid.
25. No, I didn't claim it included a time frame. Not like a time frame is needed anyways because we know for a fact it'll regenerate it's life force.
26. Blue didn't say SOME energy was absorbed. He said "Scyther's life energy was absorbed.", which implies all.


Abilities nobody has a problem with are:

• Superhuman Physical Characteristics
• Statistics Amplification/Fusionism
• Damage Boost
• Accelerated Development
• Rage Power
• Healing
• Non-Physical Interaction
• Enhanced Senses
• Self-Sealing
• Resistance to Elemental Manipulation
• Resistance to Poison Manipulation
• Resistance to Absolute Zero
• Resistance to Fragrance Manipulation
• Resistance to Transmutation
• Resistance to Information Analysis
• Resistance to Sealing