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Lord Boros Speed Issue still hasn't been resolved.

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I am waiting for Qawsed to reply.
I can't reply to every single fan that disagrees.
Isn't it just a rephrase?
Yes, the reasons for Boros's Rel+ speed weren't updated, it was just rephrased, and it is wrong again.
It'd probably be better to use Uskla's suggestion for Rel+ than the current one. Like I know FTL can't be applied due to relativistic speeds can't be applied to that. But I think the solution to that would just be to put him at "At least Relativistic+", since like Uskla said, Boros kicking speed should logically be superior to the speed he kicked Saitama at, which was near lightspeed.
I can't reply on that because I don't know how the wiki handles such situation.
Like, The Moon kick might've been just a strength feat that we can't translate to Attack Speed for Boros.
Or we can also argue that The Moon kick is the only kick from Boros's arsenal that is that strong and fast.
I suggest we deal with the current justification and then if somebody feels like updating him to Rel+, they can create a new dedicated thread.
 
I mean, if I kicked sth and that thing flew away with SoL, doesn't this mean that I can reach that speed as well if I jumped (if we ignored the resistance of gravity)?
 
I think Boros has a higher mass than Saitama, so if that force was enough to kick Saitama to the moon at SoL, I don't think this logically means that Boros can use the same force to go at the same speed because u know his mass is higher right? which means that the Gravitational pull force will be higher if I'm not mistaken
 
Dude, nothing about your argument changed. You can't just dismiss my arguments because i'm just "some fan" and not a staff member.

Either way, i'll respond.

Your point about the energy only affecting his body is completely moot, simply because he uses that same energy for his beams. And we get a very distinct visual of his energy on Saitama. The energy is not going to just lose that property. The direct statement from the manga is that he uses the energy as propulsive force, not that it only affects his body. That's your headcanon.

Nobody is arguing that just because something is wrapped in his energy makes it go at Rel+ speed, Slac. I'm arguing that the energy also was used as a propulsive force on him during the kick. There's literally no reason the same energy he uses FOR HIS BEAMS wouldn't be able to move other people. That's literally what his beams are, him shooting his internal energy. This is proven by him directly stating he's going to use all of his ENERGY in his final attack, which, as you guessed it, is a GIANT BEAM.

Just because something isn't directly stated doesn't mean it isn't the case. It's the logical conclusion in this scenario. You have still not disproven any of my points, you've just committed Ad Hominem while calling it "unsupported fan theory". Your interpretation is literally contradicted by the fight, stop with your unsupported fan theories, Slac.

My whole argument is NOT that his energy moves things at light speed, Slac. Stop strawmanning me.
 
So, before we go into the same circular debate where he proves nothing and calls my interpretation “headcanon” without saying why, can this thread just be closed? He’s using the same arguments I already addressed, while dismissing me. That’s blatant stonewalling.
 
I am just waiting for Qawsed, don't derail this any further.
You should already understand that nothing will come out of our debate.
 
I mean, if I kicked sth and that thing flew away with SoL, doesn't this mean that I can reach that speed as well if I jumped (if we ignored the resistance of gravity)?
I think Boros has a higher mass than Saitama, so if that force was enough to kick Saitama to the moon at SoL, I don't think this logically means that Boros can use the same force to go at the same speed because u know his mass is higher right? which means that the Gravitational pull force will be higher if I'm not mistaken
As I said I don't know how wiki handles this staff, and I believe it will need a new fresh discussion, not a continuity of a shitstorm this thread is.
Right now let's deal with current justification.
 
Your whole argument stands on the idea of his energy moving things at near Light Speed, which is as I already mentioned, wrong. I want you to try and respond to everything I wrote.
My point is more along the lines that his energy acts as a propulsive force, which can move things like Saitama at near-light speeds. It's why it was previously accepted in the thread you mentioned. The artbook statement also mirrors Murata's Gery statement in a lot of areas, which is brought up in the previous thread about why its probably talking about general friction removal.

For others, the argument that the kick moving the same speed as Saitama would work if: A) The series followed physics consistently like in the manga Origin B) That aspect of physics was brought up.

As it stands launching people at high speeds can easily be more indicative of super strength rather than super speed.
 
My point is more along the lines that his energy acts as a propulsive force, which can move things like Saitama at near-light speeds. It's why it was previously accepted in the thread you mentioned.
And I have replied to that, as stated in the manga his energy is a propulsive force for Boros's body, his energy doesn't move Saitama as you say because it's never mentioned or stated.
The artbook statement also mirrors Murata's Gery statement in a lot of areas, which is brought up in the previous thread about why its probably talking about general friction removal.
Murata himself already explained that he included that element to save Saitama's clothes. Boros's energy reduces friction as stated, but it doesn't move things its wrapped in at SOL, I can't find any evidence to support that claim.
For others, the argument that the kick moving the same speed as Saitama would work if: A) The series followed physics consistently like in the manga Origin B) That aspect of physics was brought up.

As it stands launching people at high speeds can easily be more indicative of super strength rather than super speed.
This is for another discussion. This one has been derailed long enough.

I want you to address all my points in that reply, separately, like I did. Look at the original one, it's cleaner.
The bold part here is the issue. You said "which is why Saitama could be launched at high speeds", which is practically wrong. This isn't what the quote actually states.
It states: "I basically resolved the whole question of heat friction by wrapping Saitama in Boros's energy while he was being launched near the speed of light".
Nowhere is it stated that the energy or the lack of heat friction allowed to launch Saitama at near Light Speed like you said. It only said that the lack of heat friction allowed Saitama's clothes to remain intact, that's it. Everything else is your addition to the statement, not canon.
The key part is "his", not anyone who is wrapped in his energy.
I never denied MB gives super speed, again, the key part is "his", not everybody else's.
It should read something like
At least Relativistic+ (He uses his internal energy as a propulsive force to increase his speed, which allows him to move and launch targets at near-lightspeeds. Faster than before)
The issue here is bold italic statement you made. Never ever is it stated that Boros can move at near-lightspeed, you basically wrote this and linked a calc to his profile that doesn't support what you wrote in there. If that link has a statement "Boros can move at near-lightspeed" as you wrote on the link itself, then quote it.

Your whole argument stands on the idea of his energy moving things at near Light Speed, which is as I already mentioned, wrong. I want you to try and respond to everything I wrote.
 
And I have replied to that, as stated in the manga his energy is a propulsive force for Boros's body, his energy doesn't move Saitama as you say because it's never mentioned or stated.
His energy can launch himself at high speeds and his aura can negate aspects of friction. Considering those two aspects it was agreed that we keep his rating for the time being.


Boros's energy reduces friction as stated, but it doesn't move things its wrapped in at SOL
You're misunderstanding my using of the artbook. Though that's also my fault for not giving a proper explanation of what I meant. The main purpose is the aspects of friction ignoring and the statement that Saitama was moving at near-light speeds. They're two different aspects of his ratings the former as supplementary speed evidence and the latter being used to find how fast Saitama was moving.

The aura did not launch Saitama at near light speed yes. But it did assist in being kicked at that speed. Even if we throw it out, Boros' aura is what is being used to blast targets and himself at higher speeds. Which is why the scaling was kept.
 
He never countered my points from before the thread was closed, I was already part of the conversation.
Slacjow told me that he wants to respond before this discussion thread is closed again. My apologies for the inconvenience.

Slacjow asked Ant to reopen this thread so he may converse with Qawsed. This thread wouldn't be open if that wasn't the case. Debating 2 people on limited time is counter productive.
 
I don’t see why that’s relevant at all. This is a CRT he made that I disagreed with and argued against, I genuinely don’t see why I should just be completely left out of the CRT just because he “doesn’t want to debate me”. If we could just ignore people because we don’t want to debate them, then CRTs could go through with literally no debate happening.
 
It’s literally only messy because he refuses to address me, Elixir. I’ve countered his points, and he ignored me and accused me of derailing.

Sorry for attempting to be productive, I guess. Won’t do it again.
 
The aura did not launch Saitama at near light speed yes. But it did assist in being kicked at that speed.
Actually, it didn't. The aura was implemented only for one reason, to reduce the friction so that Saitama's clothes don't burn. The scan you use as a proof doesn't say that the Aura helped get Saitama into the Moon.
He could've gotten to the Moon with the same speed even without the energy around him, but in that case he wouldn't have clothes.
Even if we throw it out, Boros' aura is what is being used to blast targets and himself at higher speeds. Which is why the scaling was kept.
It's not though, its not stated in the manga or by Murata. Murata said it reduces friction, not launches targets at near-lightspeed. I asked already to provide a quote that supports it.

You'll have to reply to what I said earlier. This is crucial and without it we can't finish this debate properly.
Look at the first time I posted it, its cleaner.
Again, reply to this.
The bold part here is the issue. You said "which is why Saitama could be launched at high speeds", which is practically wrong. This isn't what the quote actually states.
It states: "I basically resolved the whole question of heat friction by wrapping Saitama in Boros's energy while he was being launched near the speed of light".
Nowhere is it stated that the energy or the lack of heat friction allowed to launch Saitama at near Light Speed like you said. It only said that the lack of heat friction allowed Saitama's clothes to remain intact, that's it. Everything else is your addition to the statement, not canon.
The key part is "his", not anyone who is wrapped in his energy.
I never denied MB gives super speed, again, the key part is "his", not everybody else's.
It should read something like
At least Relativistic+ (He uses his internal energy as a propulsive force to increase his speed, which allows him to move and launch targets at near-lightspeeds. Faster than before)
The issue here is bold italic statement you made. Never ever is it stated that Boros can move at near-lightspeed, you basically wrote this and linked a calc to his profile that doesn't support what you wrote in there. If that link has a statement "Boros can move at near-lightspeed" as you wrote on the link itself, then quote it.

Your whole argument stands on the idea of his energy moving things at near Light Speed, which is as I already mentioned, wrong. I want you to try and respond to everything I wrote.
Edit: I might not be able to reply today, I am away from PC, but I'll reply tomorrow if Qwased writes his response.
 
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Sorry for the late response. I had family stuff to deal with.

Actually, it didn't. The aura was implemented only for one reason, to reduce the friction so that Saitama's clothes don't burn. The scan you use as a proof doesn't say that the Aura helped get Saitama into the Moon.
By removing heat friction, it actually does remove friction. As explained simply here:
When surfaces in contact move relative to each other, the friction between the two surfaces converts kinetic energy into thermal energy (that is, it converts work to heat). This property can have dramatic consequences, as illustrated by the use of friction created by rubbing pieces of wood together to start a fire.

Wikipedia
By removing heat friction Saitama would retain all of his kinetic energy from Boros' kick, rather than have it be converted into thermal energy. By the aura existing, friction becomes a non-factor. So the idea that they can move at near-light speed is more believable

Murata said it reduces friction, not launches targets at near-lightspeed. I asked already to provide a quote that supports it.
The kick launches Saitama at near-light speed, due to his internal energy acting as a boosting propulsive force. I think that in of itself would be enough evidence for his Rel+ rating along with the lack of friction. Since friction not being a factor there's more reasoning that Boros' leg was moving at near-light speeds.
The bold part here is the issue. You said "which is why Saitama could be launched at high speeds", which is practically wrong. This isn't what the quote actually states.
It states: "I basically resolved the whole question of heat friction by wrapping Saitama in Boros's energy while he was being launched near the speed of light".
Nowhere is it stated that the energy or the lack of heat friction allowed to launch Saitama at near Light Speed like you said. It only said that the lack of heat friction allowed Saitama's clothes to remain intact, that's it. Everything else is your addition to the statement, not canon.
I've previously addressed the friction thing. Without friction Saitama's speed is solely dependent on Boros' leg momentum and the energy he's using to boost it.
The key part is "his", not anyone who is wrapped in his energy.
Boros is always covered in some form of energy when he's moving. The aura itself has frictionless properties, so I think Murata and the work are implying a correlating factor between the two. Like how he drew Gery's rock with the same aura around them which was to showcase his (personal) intention to have them have frictionless properties due to psionic enhancements.

The rest would just be retreads of what I said previously in this comment. I will say that its not as concrete as I want it to be, but that the evidence we do have would be enough for the rating in my view. To add, barring any large changes, future AG scaling would act as supporting evidence for the rating as well.
 
I know that, but his speed would still logically have to be superior to the speed he kicked saitama at, and wouldn't just putting "At least Relativistic+" instead of FTL be better as it is at least superior to the speed saitama was launched
 
Can we not rush to close this thread again because you feel like it?
I'll reply soon.
 
By removing heat friction Saitama would retain all of his kinetic energy from Boros' kick, rather than have it be converted into thermal energy. By the aura existing, friction becomes a non-factor.
I never denied the energy reduces friction.
So the idea that they can move at near-light speed is more believable
No it's not, nothing you said right now supports that. Just because Boros kicked Saitama at near light speed doesn't in any way translate to the fact that his energy might help him move at near speed of light. We again returned to the old "his energy moves things at near SOL" argument, that has no support in the manga or databook.
The kick launches Saitama at near-light speed, due to his internal energy acting as a boosting propulsive force. I think that in of itself would be enough evidence for his Rel+ rating along with the lack of friction.
First of all I want to address something, I don't care about Rel+ rating, we are arguing about how he got that speed.
We are not discussing this argument, you are trying to keep Rel+ Boros, I am trying to remove "his energy moves things at SOL" justification.
Since friction not being a factor there's more reasoning that Boros' leg was moving at near-light speeds.
Lack of friction doesn't make you near SOL, we don't automatically give everyone who fights in space near SOL speeds just because there's no friction, you have to achieve this speed first.
I've previously addressed the friction thing. Without friction Saitama's speed is solely dependent on Boros' leg momentum and the energy he's using to boost it.
Yes, because thats the case, Saitama was launched at that speed because Boros's kick was enhanced, not because his energy removed the friction, and not because his energy has magical properties of carrying things at near SOL.
As I said in that reply nothing in the manga supports your narrative.
You statement "The Artbook description said that the aura negates friction which is why Saitama could be launched at high speeds" , you made it seem like the lack of friction helped get Saitama to the Moon, which isn't stated anywhere, which I already addressed and you haven't replied to it properly.
That was my reply:
"The bold part here is the issue. You said "which is why Saitama could be launched at high speeds", which is practically wrong. This isn't what the quote actually states.
It states: "I basically resolved the whole question of heat friction by wrapping Saitama in Boros's energy while he was being launched near the speed of light".
Nowhere is it stated that the energy or the lack of heat friction allowed to launch Saitama at near Light Speed like you said. It only said that the lack of heat friction allowed Saitama's clothes to remain intact, that's it. Everything else is your addition to the statement, not canon.
"
You will have to respond to this better, especially the bold parts.

Friction was only an issue while on Earth, Saitama traveled to the Moon in vacuum, so it was a non factor for 99% of the way.
And yes, Saitama's speed was the result of Boros's Strength, not lack of friction, it's true that friction contributed to his acceleration while in the atmosphere but it's just 0.1 percent of the whole way, maybe even less.
Boros is always covered in some form of energy when he's moving. The aura itself has frictionless properties, so I think Murata and the work are implying a correlating factor between the two. Like how he drew Gery's rock with the same aura around them which was to showcase his (personal) intention to have them have frictionless properties due to psionic enhancements.
I know he is covered in his energy when he is in MB. How does having frictionless aura makes one near lightspeed, again? In Gery's case he does the same thing, maybe to reduce the friction so his rocks don't evaporate, Murata stated once that Gery is the only one that can throw objects at such high speeds without damaging them.
But that doesn't justify the case of Boros. Having himself covered Boros only reduces friction and you can't automatically grant people near-sol speed because of that.
The rest would just be retreads of what I said previously in this comment. I will say that its not as concrete as I want it to be, but that the evidence we do have would be enough for the rating in my view
You still haven't brought proof on how Boros's energy makes him accelerate himself to near-light speed, I agree that his aura makes him frictionless since its stated by Murata that his energy can do that. But it doesn't say the energy has the properties to launch something at near SOL, if there is one, then post a statement that clearly says that his energy can move things its wrapped in at near SOL.
I know that, but his speed would still logically have to be superior to the speed he kicked saitama at, and wouldn't just putting "At least Relativistic+" instead of FTL be better as it is at least superior to the speed saitama was launched
I don't know about that, I said, if someone wants to upgrade Boros to Rel+ again if this thread gets accepted, then they can create a new CRT.
This one already has a bunch of replies, and the argument here is completely different, the point of this CRT is to remove this justification and as a result Rel+, not to revise his speed with new justification.
 
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Slacjow, you cannot drag out this discussion forever if the consensus here does not agree with you. You have to let go eventually.
 
You still haven't brought proof on how Boros's energy makes him accelerate himself to near-light speed, I agree that his aura makes him frictionless since its stated by Murata that his energy can do that. But it doesn't say the energy has the properties to launch something at near SOL, if there is one, then post a statement that clearly says that his energy can move things its wrapped in at near SOL.
I've already given everything. Like I said it's not as solid as I want it to be and you're not going to get a hard statement because of it. As I've also said, personally I still think it's enough to keep it.

But I can't in good will just ignore everything you said and just let it be outvoted publicly and kept. Since that would be rather hypocritical with some of my other on site actions/rants/tangents. If there's no hard evidence of Boros solely using his energy to propel his targets then there's not a solid basis to keep him at Rel+.

Though I still think we should keep the rating, but his primary statistic does need to drop to "At least MHS+".
 
What do the rest of you think? Should I ask some other staff members who are interested in OPM to comment here?
 
I've already given everything. Like I said it's not as solid as I want it to be and you're not going to get a hard statement because of it. As I've also said, personally I still think it's enough to keep it.

But I can't in good will just ignore everything you said and just let it be outvoted publicly and kept. Since that would be rather hypocritical with some of my other on site actions/rants/tangents. If there's no hard evidence of Boros solely using his energy to propel his targets then there's not a solid basis to keep him at Rel+.

Though I still think we should keep the rating, but his primary statistic does need to drop to "At least MHS+".
What about having "At least Rel+" about Boros having to be logically as fast if not faster then the speed he kicked saitama at? Like stated earlier.
 
I've already given everything. Like I said it's not as solid as I want it to be and you're not going to get a hard statement because of it. As I've also said, personally I still think it's enough to keep it.

But I can't in good will just ignore everything you said and just let it be outvoted publicly and kept. Since that would be rather hypocritical with some of my other on site actions/rants/tangents. If there's no hard evidence of Boros solely using his energy to propel his targets then there's not a solid basis to keep him at Rel+.
There's no evidence supporting the notion of his energy moving things at SOL, I mean, I don't have to prove that it does't move things at near SOL, you have to prove it and so far there's no actual proof. There's only proof that his energy boosts his own speed and strength and that it reduces the friction, but these don't have any correlation with moving near-sol.
The quote about friction was taken out of context and applied as if it was boosting Saitama's speed and Boros's speed to near SOL.
Though I still think we should keep the rating, but his primary statistic does need to drop to "At least MHS+".
If people want Realativistc we can go to a compromise and give him possibly Relativistic rating, since he already has possibly Relativistic in his previous key.
The Rel+ has no actual evidence going on for it.
 
What do the rest of you think? Should I ask some other staff members who are interested in OPM to comment here
Rel+ due to the calc like it always has been. This shouldn't be an argument. The lack of friction made it easier of Saitama to move at the speed. The speed being 75% SOL, though we changed it to 90% SOL. Boros' leg logically moved faster than the speed launched, so we could upscale to possible higher, or possibly SOL
 
Rel+ due to the calc like it always has been. This shouldn't be an argument. The lack of friction made it easier of Saitama to move at the speed. The speed being 75% SOL, though we changed it to 90% SOL. Boros' leg logically moved faster than the speed launched, so we could upscale to possible higher, or possibly SOL
I don't think we should upscale at all, it's better we put "At least Rel+"
 
Slacjow, you cannot drag out this discussion forever if the consensus here does not agree with you. You have to let go eventually.
I am not dragging it forever, only for 2 pages so far because I feel like my arguments weren't fully addressed, and I know current rating isn't supported by scans presented on the profile, links in the profile say one thing, statements in the scans of those links say another thing. Current rating is the result of adding your own interpretation of whatever happened in the manga and using out of context statements just for the sole purpose of getting Relativistic+.
And you can't shut down some two page discussion where there are CRTs going on for 10 pages.
 
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